"Roman" empire

Clearly The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is the rightful inheritor of Rome

...

That's like calling east Germany eastern Nazi empire

I think it's the arab and turk manlets that insist calling Byzanshits roman, as that way they can rp they comquered Roman Empire. While in reality they cmquered an already destroyed deadbeat mini-shithole

>I think it's the arab and turk manlets that insist calling Byzanshits roman, as that way they can rp they comquered Roman Empire. While in reality they cmquered an already destroyed deadbeat mini-shithole
This. This so much

Rome split in half
East and West
Byzantium is the Eastern Roman Empire. You can not refute this. So technically they were. You can not refute this.

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BWAHAHAHA is there a single facet of Veeky Forums that isn't embarrassing?

The Nazi government had its reigning authority figures chopped down and most if not all of its government dismantled by outside force.

Byzantium/Eastern Rome didn't. It did bleed a slow death for centuries, but it was never externally dismantled.

so much butthurt against greeks, love this

t. 5ft 3 roach

Why don't anti-Byzaboos ever bring up the completely legitimate fact that after the 13th century the Byzantines started to become more comfortable with having a Hellenic identity? They always resort to ridiculous easily debunked arguments instead.

kek i am greek myself. i just despise byzaboos and the only good thing that came from us, was ancient greece

σkάσε kομμούνι

t. Kostas Anatolidis

in the middle ages it was christians who pushed the idia that Armenians are Greeks (kek) your church still says that Sicilians who are Greeks arent because they are not Orthodox

it was communists who pushed for the inclusion of Pontics who arent Greek.

Christianity=Communism

you sound like a barbarian desu

Lmao, le ethnic nationalist, what a disgrace

Greek culture has had the most positive influence everywhere it's been, it's why the west developed the way it did, it should be spread as far as possible. If that means people are hellenized and are called greek after they adopt it, good. There's no point in having pride in your culture if you don't want others to have it you cuck.

Because it was the same state. It was the Roman Empire. Complete legal continuity from Augustus to Constantine XI. You can argue all you want about the language, religion, capital city and such, but that fact makes it undisputedly the Roman Empire

>Lmao, le ethnic nationalist, what a disgrace
unlike i you honour the real gods and keep to my people, you misellen

>Ancient Greek culture has had the most positive influence everywhere it's been
ftfy, it has nothing to do with Orthodox culture

>If that means people are hellenized and are called greek after they adopt it, good. There's no point in having pride in your culture if you don't want others to have it you cuck.
robbing other peoples of their culture reminds me of a certain people, i cant recall their names though...

No, it's still around, though it's limited to The Vatican.

>the real gods
Dead and irrelevant

>ftfy, it has nothing to do with Orthodox culture
I agree, but greek orthodoxy was partly tied to ancient greek ideals. Why do you think constantinople had the first university and one of the greatest libraries in the world? Or the fact that the byzantine population was the most educated in the world, even in rural areas? Greek heritage has been strong even in christian greeks. Therefore spreading greek christian culture was very positive in the middle ages.

>robbing other peoples of their culture
Would be a problem if we were living in a world with equal living standards everywhere. As it is, the areas with the most continuous european (greek) influence are the best places to be, while the rest is a shithole.

>Dead and irrelevant
wrong it has always survived cross muslim

>I agree, but greek orthodoxy was partly tied to ancient greek ideals.
citation needed
>Why do you think constantinople had the first university
Ancient Greek academies. hell some mesopotamian cultures might have already invented them.
>and one of the greatest libraries in the world?
fair enough, they still burned 80% of greek literature
>Greek heritage has been strong even in christian greeks.
"christian" greeks consider an empire which hunted down its original people, as its own. i cant agree.
Google Plethon, read about Mystras

>Would be a problem if we were living in a world with equal living standards everywhere. As it is, the areas with the most continuous european (greek) influence are the best places to be, while the rest is a shithole.
not saying i disagree, however what i am saying is that christianity murdered our demographics. we have Pontics, Cappadocians, etc. who are Armenians and still think they are Greeks, while they should have been with their brothers.

>wrong it has always survived cross muslim
what do you mean? typo?

>citation needed
Phrased it incorrectly, I meant the period of orthodoxy in greek history, not the faith by itself.

>Ancient Greek academies. hell some mesopotamian cultures might have already invented them.
What the fuck are you talking about? The university of constantinople was established by a byzantine emperor.

>fair enough, they still burned 80% of greek literature
Source? I don't consider christians to be above burning pagan literature, but number seems inflated.

>Google Plethon
What about him? I agree it's a shame but one of the most important things a culture must do to survive is adapt. By that time, pagan religions were dead and christianity was absolute. The only realistic choice is to either use christianity as a conduit for greek ideals or to just waste your effort by trying to revive a dead society.

>however what i am saying is that christianity murdered our demographics
What does it matter anyway, there have been greeks living all over the mediterranean basin since antiquity, I don't think it's a bad thing for people to be considered greek if they're genetically different as long as they have fully adopted greek culture. Demographic change is considered a problem nowadays because different populations do not integrate, not because they are genetically different.

>what do you mean? typo?
christians behaved like muslims, except that they had the cross kek
>Phrased it incorrectly...
i cant say that i agree. during this time we had a jewish religion and lived in a multi ethnic empire. the opposite of that Greeks were

>What the fuck are you talking about? The university of constantinople...
sorry i meant that universities existed way before the byzantines. technically we can consider all places where people were taught different subjects universities.

>Source?
truth be told i cant say that for sure. what i can say is that germanic tribes did not destroy the greek world as much as they did in italy. most of greek literature was in the greek world, but these were still lost. it must have been christians

>What about him? I agree it's a shame but one of the most important things a culture must do to survive is adapt. By that time, pagan religions were dead and christianity was absolute. The only realistic choice is to either use christianity as a conduit for greek ideals or to just waste your effort by trying to revive a dead society.
A real Hellene got killed by the multi ethnic empire. a damn shame.
Well thankfully we have much literature on how the Ancients thought and behaved. we cant call ourselves Greek, if we arent like them. whats the difference between Skopjans and us then?

>I don't think it's a bad thing for people to be considered greek if they're genetically different as long as they have fully adopted greek culture.
well first this goes against the everything the Ancients stood for. For an Athenian to marry a Spartan was seen as terrible for instance.
Accepting people based on "muh culture" which isnt even Greek, but a globalist ideology, is wrong in my opinion.

Experience has taught me that people who are against ethno nationalism are mixed themselves. you should seek a woman who is mixed yourself and deside for yourself which culture you prefer. but todays Greece cant be called Hellenic

Great image.

>we cant call ourselves Greek, if we arent like them
But "greek" has changed and evolved over time. There are certain values integral to greek culture however that have remained part of it even now. The value of education for instance. Or the value of reason and science. These are things that have changed the course of history for the better. And even in the bankrupt shithole that we live in, these things live on. There are countless greek scientists that coming from such a small population. That is jsut one of the differences between us and Skopjans, or turks or any other anti-greek culture.

You don't have to be "ancient" greek to be a greek. We also don't have slavery nowadays, we shouldn't strive to emulate everything our ancestors did.

>well first this goes against the everything the Ancients stood for. For an Athenian to marry a Spartan was seen as terrible for instance.

Hence my point, the ancients weren't perfect, and even then your point doesn't stand that much, when the wider greek world was in trouble greeks always joined to beat them back, it's the peace time that has been our bane, ironically enough. The world back then was much smaller, there was just greek and some empires in the east. Today, greek culture is in decline and threatened with extinction by a dozen neighbouring shitholes and most importantly turkey. We don't have the luxury of picking who is greek from the integrated greeks and who isn't. If you're arguing otherwise then you're just naive to the dangers of the modern age.

>Experience has taught me that people who are against ethno nationalism are mixed themselves
Both of my parents' families hail from the islands, doesn't get much "purer" than that. Doesn't mean that I should derive the value of "greekness" from my ancestry, neither should you.

>But "greek" has changed and evolved over time.
the Byzantines refused to call themselves Hellenes.
>The value of education for instance. Or the value of reason and science
kek dont pretend like the Lyceum is anything close to Ancient Greek education

>We also don't have slavery nowadays, we shouldn't strive to emulate everything our ancestors did.
agreed. however it delusional to call ourselves Greek when our culture is nothing like them. Especially after taking the religion of an inferior people

>We don't have the luxury of picking who is greek from the integrated greeks and who isn't. If you're arguing otherwise then you're just naive to the dangers of the modern age.
Either we do what things how they are supposed to be or we dont do them at all. Might aswell abandon Greek and call ourselves the United Orthodox peoples (lol).
I disagree entirely with your notion of culture changes. What happened to us, was an attack on our culture and religion by people who hated us. they tortured our ancestors and you adopt their culture. do you understand why i disagree?

>Doesn't mean that I should derive the value of "greekness" from my ancestry, neither should you.
i cant agree with you on this. not even your ancestors would agree. we especially shouldnt derive our culture from orthodox "culture"

There is a misconception that the late roman army was weaker than the pax romana roman army, and that explains why rome fell.

This is not true. The late roman armies were vastly more powerful than the earlier armies.

What happened was the enemies of rome became much more powerful and numerous. The enemies had similar armor and weapons and understood roman battle tactics. The roman empire went bankrupt defending itself with massive and powerful armies.

During pax romana, most of rome's enemies were unarmored and used clubs and spears. Only the nobility used swords.

>kek dont pretend like the Lyceum is anything close to Ancient Greek education
our shitty education system has nothing to do with why greeks want to become scientists/engineers etc. and I would never imply that. It comes from identifying with your ancestors and what your family teaches you. When a kid has archimedes or aristotle as their models and ancestors, it will affect them positively. Parents teaching their kids the value of education also does that, and it's still a thing in greece fortunately.

>however it delusional to call ourselves Greek when our culture is nothing like them
By the same logic noone should call themselves like their ancestors did. Germans have nothing to do with original germans, turks have nothing to do with their conqueror ancestors, same for spanish, english etc. Cultures change. They still get called by the same name though, probably because of ethnicity. Ancient greek ethnicity hasn't disappeared, modern greeks for the most parts are the closest possible to ancients, so why make an exception?

>Either we do what things how they are supposed to be or we dont do them at all.
But you're not being pragmatic. It's easy to preach and criticise when your ideas will never be implemented, but the reality is that the only our culture survives is by not adding an extra vague ethnic requirement to being greek. So you either choose extinction or survival.

>What happened to us, was an attack on our culture and religion by people who hated us
You're exaggerating here, monotheistic religions didn't dominate because greeks were attacked and killed, it dominated because it was a more attractive faith.

>we especially shouldnt derive our culture from orthodox "culture"
I agree, but realistically christianity is the only relevant religion and it will never change, so you either embrace it with its infused greek elements and its flaws or you don't do anything at all. You don't have another REALISTIC choice.

I don't think anyone doubts or should doubt that the threats faced by the ERE were far more powerful than before.

Interesting thing, the deadliest battle in history outside of the 20th century was the second arab siege of constantinople. That's roughly 1200 years before the large european conflicts.

>Parents teaching their kids the value of education also does that, and it's still a thing in greece fortunately.
great i'll take your word on it kek
>Germans have nothing to do with original germans,
culturally yes
>turks have nothing to do with their conqueror ancestors, same for spanish, english etc.
yes
>Ancient greek ethnicity hasn't disappeared, modern greeks for the most parts are the closest possible to ancients, so why make an exception?
this is precisely why we should follow our ancestors and not their murderers.

>But you're not being pragmatic.
anything is possible and i certainly dont want to live a lie.

>You're exaggerating here, monotheistic religions didn't dominate because greeks were attacked and killed, it dominated because it was a more attractive faith.
it took killings and brutal measures for the hellenic faith to disappear. which they never achieved thank god. greek religion survived way into the high middle ages. Emperor Maurikios II complained in 600 a.d. that the populace is still largely pagan.
>it dominated because it was a more attractive faith.
all interesting things are derived from pagan culture. Why do you think the only time people go to church is during the special holidays? its a part of our hellenic past.

>You don't have another REALISTIC choice.
christianity is on a worldwide decline. soon greeks will know what they did to the superior hellenes, what their religion is all about and that it was because of christianity that we are in this dreadful position.
Hellenic religions are on the rise, this very moment. In 20-30 years the population will be divided like you and me now( to a lesser extent kek)

>anything is possible
It's not though, that's the problem. Current circumstances force you to make a choice between living the "lie" or losing all influence.

>which they never achieved thank god
Doesn't matter, it's achieved now. Pagans who actually observe the relevant rites are considered the laughing stock. This will never change because such changes as the one from ancient greece to Rome simply aren't possible nowadays.

Another thing, we speak of faith as something that can be discarded or changed at will. That's because we see faith as a tool of social engineering, towards making a society better. But that's not how most people see faith. They don't choose between ancient greek pagan gods and christianity during their childhood, they're simply brought up believing in God (the actual faithful ones, anyway). You can't change that by protesting how bad christians are or how much better pagans were, it's simply embedded in our heritage and will never be removed.

>all interesting things are derived from pagan culture
agree, but like I said it doesn't matter because that faith is lost

>christianity is on a worldwide decline
Because irreligiousness is rising, not because pagan religions are. The more into the future we go, the more atheist societies will become, there' won't be a chance of hellenic regions to be established again. I just hope we'll be able to preserve our culture, such as it is with its christian and ancient greek elements, instead of not having it at all.

>It's not though, that's the problem. Current circumstances force you to make a choice between living the "lie" or losing all influence.
i made the entire hoop from christian, to atheist and then pagan.
people will realize that hellenism will bring us into a new age.

>Pagans who actually observe the relevant rites are considered the laughing stock.
people who think drinking frape and listening to mazonaki is greek culture are laughing at pagans? wow
>You can't change that by protesting how bad christians are or how much better pagans were, it's simply embedded in our heritage and will never be removed.
im not saying that god doesnt exist or the divine for that matter. that includes additional gods

>agree, but like I said it doesn't matter because that faith is lost
thankfully hellenism is on the rise. a few years ago you would be laughed at, now people are slowly accepting you. some even defend you

>Because irreligiousness is rising,
i will refer you to above

i really dont know what your problem is my friend. you desperatly want to see an idea and our ancestry, that which made our people great, extinguished.

>i made the entire hoop from christian, to atheist and then pagan.
Which is exactly my point, most people (you know, the base of a modern-day nation) DON'T do that. If people were serious with their religion, whatever that may be, you would've been burned at the cross.

>im not saying that god doesnt exist or the divine for that matter. that includes additional gods
That's ridiculous, you believe that the christian god exists along with the 12 hellenic ones? Hell, the ancient greek gods weren't even meant to be gods in the modern sense, an absolute truth to be revered. They were anthropomorphisations of real human stories that the communities had created, and represented dozens of different interests and ideas. That's why they were so great. Hell, the basis of the intellectual revolution that started with ancient greece and continued through the modern age rests on seeking explanations OTHER than the divine for natural phenomena. Assigning the same criteria for "believing" in ancient greek gods as you do for christian and other monotheistic absolute religions is ridiculous, if anything, it reflects how non-greek a person is.

>thankfully hellenism is on the rise
Lmao yeah, 100% increase in pagans from 100 worshippers to 200. And barely any of them actually believe in what they're doing. Revolution.

>you desperatly want to see an idea and our ancestry, that which made our people great, extinguished.
I want it to be preserved the only way possible, through what it is today. I'm just not delusional about being able to change 11 million people's faith by LARPing as a pagan, even if I believe things would be better off if everyone was a pagan.

>Which is exactly my point, most people (you know, the base of a modern-day nation) DON'T do that. If people were serious with their religion, whatever that may be, you would've been burned at the cross.
real greeks will embrace their ancestors ideology.
also have you forgotten that christianity spread? you are saying that a religion cant be spread, while you believe in one.
also polytheism will not need war and brutality to be spread ;)

>That's ridiculous, you believe that the christian god exists along with the 12 hellenic ones?
well not entirely. i believe in all gods. they all exist, but are deviations of mine. you believe that only your god exists and that he created the universe which cant be.
>They were anthropomorphisations of real human stories that the communities had created, and represented dozens of different interests and ideas.
they were gods and no one to this day knows exactly what the myths mean. anyone saying otherwise wants to capitalize. like your masters when they said, look at those greeks, they actually believe in those silly stories.
>Hell, the basis of the intellectual revolution that started with ancient greece and continued through the modern age rests on seeking explanations OTHER than the divine for natural phenomena.
the myths werent meant to explain the world. why do you think greeks were free to search for different things?
>Lmao yeah, 100% increase in pagans from 100 worshippers to 200. And barely any of them actually believe in what they're doing. Revolution.
you are beeing mocking for no apparent reason.

>through what it is today.
a failed state, having a jewish religion, with people who do not know their real ancestry.
our only greatness came from the ancients, which is why i am so fond of it.

>That's like calling east Germany eastern Nazi empire
no, it isn't. this is some /badhistory/ if i've ever seen it

>you are saying that a religion cant be spread
I am saying it can't be spread NOW. Not in the middle ages or ancient times. There's a huge difference.

>while you believe in one
I don't believe in christianity though, nor pagan deities. All I am saying is that christianity is the only existing vessel of ancient greek ideals that is left in our modern society.

>you believe that only your god exists
see above

>the myths werent meant to explain the world
Every myth or religion was meant to explain the world, it's not even debatable.
britannica.com/topic/Greek-mythology

Just like the encyclopedia says, the ancients did the same but were extraordinarily imaginable with their stories and ideas. That doesn't mean that the origin isn't the same. It's just that the plurality of the faith permitted many different behaviours and normalised the "freedom to search for different things" as you put it.

>our only greatness came from the ancients, which is why i am so fond of it.
Europe's and as a result the whole world's only greatness has come from the ancients. Many people are fond of it. Doesn't mean they can change their societies and remove medieval influence altogether and start believing in something else. Faith changes happened naturally and gradually, including as a result of social circumstances. These circumstances change even today, but they're not favouring polytheistic religions, they're favouring irreligiousness. We can't go back, end of story.

no it still exists

I fucking hate how most of Veeky Forums seems to get their information from youtube

>calling myself a Roman makes me a Roman

Calling yourself a Roman while being an inhabitant of the state called the Roman Empire while your ancestors have been living in said state for thousands of years does make you a Roman, yeah

>hurr HRE
>hurr Ottomans
>hurr Russia

The common citizenry in those countries did not identify as Romans, nor did anyone else living in them.

so you're saying that Romans were against fighting literal caveman for centuries

>That's like calling east Germany eastern Nazi empire.
How can anyone be this historically illiterate?

the Roman empire is the empire of the Romans not the empire of Rome

it ended in 1943