French names In medieval England

Following the Norman conquest In 1066, for about 300 years there are many cases of people living In England with French names e.g. Walter de Milemete.
My question Is whether those with French names were of French descent ot whether French names were adopted among the English as It was seen noble?
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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Normans
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*or instead of 'ot'

>My question Is whether those with French names were of French descent ot whether French names were adopted among the English as It was seen noble?

The entirety of the Anglo-Saxon nobility was replaced with French Normans
After 1066, there were no longer any Anglo nobles, and all of the nobility was Norman

Many Anglo-Saxon nobles married into Norman families to reestablish their prestige, and also adopted French style names. But many of the X de X place names, are not from specific names they said themselves, but because records were written in French and Latin, not English.

Yes I know that, but there were few nobles, but many Englishmen with French names.
Are you saying that in written documents, their names were written In French?
Also side question, but did English writers also write in French? Like how monks wrote in latin?

Did the displaced Anglo-Saxon nobility marry back into the English nobility? I know that the Angevin kings had Anglo-Saxon heritage, but is this a specific case or the general rule?

>but because records were written in French and Latin, not English

Mostly because they themselves spoke French rather than English

>But many of the X de X place names, are not from specific names they said themselves

It was mostly the places of origin of their family, often located in Normandy, Britanny or Anjou

Yes, the language of prestige in England after the Norman conquest, up until the mid 16th Century was French, and in many European and even other nations, records were written in Latin, as many of those who could write (churchmen) were trained in Latin. It is a possibility that some of their names were written with French grammatical flair, like using 'de' instead of 'of'.

Anglo-Saxon nobility are English nobility, it's just a way of distinguishing them from the Britons, at this point in time (1066), it's better to call them English.

The Angevins had some English heritage merely due to inter marrying of the nobility, they were very French. Richard I for example despised England, and merely used it as a bank to finance his Crusading efforts, he barely spoke English, though the other Angevin kings were just generally better people, so focused more on England. Richard I was mainly looking to secure and expand his French territory.

Yes, that doesn't necessitate they would have spoken of it in that way, we only have the written accounts, we can't be sure if they spoke English primarily, or French, though the later is more likely, we cannot be sure.

Well apparently nobles outside the royal court switched to English as their primary language fairly quickly as it was far more convenient

akshually, there were a few Anglo-Saxon nobles like Waltheof that survived the Conquest and then rebelled, thence being removed from power and a totally Norman aristocracy taking root.

Is that related to the 'harrying of the North'?
Also another question: how did your average Anglo-Saxon view the fact that their rulers were foreign? Was there any prejudice to the French invaders?

>how did your average Anglo-Saxon view the fact that their rulers were foreign?

They were pretty used to it
They had been cucked by the Danes not long before

Actually Cnut showed equality to his Danish and English subjects. In fact he made quite the effort to integrate to Anglo-Saxon society. All his advisors were Anglo-Saxons and he spent more time in England than Denmark. So I wouldn't say 'cucked'

I think the Harrying was more vicious and focused in Yorkshire because of the presence of Edgar Atheling and rumours of Anglo-Danish alliances. But Waltheof actually survived the Harrying, but joined another revolt in 1075, and was executed a year later.

As for the second question, it's hard to gauge the views of 'average Anglo-Saxons' because of a general lack of source material from peasant or even thegn communities at the time.

The surviving Anglo-Saxon accounts we do have like the AngSax Chronicle support the view of 'Norman yoke' ie oppressive foreigners restraining freedom and progression of Anglo-Saxon community.

No doubt there was resentment from many Anglo-Saxons from the fact that they were now being ruled by Normans, but the Norman invaders assimilated/integrated/combined (not sure about the right expression to use) with the indigenous Anglo Saxons to create what historians now call the Anglo-Norman culture: French language spoken at court but most nobles learnt English because subtenants or peasants were native English speakers; marrying Anglo-Saxons eg William of Malmesbury etc.

It's a mixture of both. Initially they would be French immigrants, but then it would be their sons. These would intermarry locals and their sons keep the French names.

Most of the original English nobility was wiped out, but many managed to survive, and a lot did this by adopting French titles and names.

It's ironic because this is identical to the Anglo Saxon conquest of England, just swap the Normal French for the Anglo Saxons and the Anglo Saxons for the Romano-Celtic Britons.

Well the Normans didn't genocide and displace the Anglo-Saxons, but the Anglo-Saxons genocided and displaced the Britons

French were merely the ruling class of England, anyone with a French name that isn't a part of the ruling-class, or at least of the upper-class, is a larper. .

Tell me which Anglo Saxon nobles 'adopted French titles and names'?

>French Normans

That's not an answer.
There's a list of Anglo-Norman families here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Normans
The Anglo-Saxon nobles married with the Normans and likely named their children with 'noble' Norman names like William which is now considered a very English name

Yes it is

No Anglo-Saxons adopted French names, instead French replaced the Anglo-Saxons as the ruling class of England.

You know, these French dudes with far off Danish ancestry who invaded England in 1066 and made French it's official royal language for centuries

The only credible example I can think of that supports your view is William Adelin, the heir apparent of Henry I before his death in the White Ship Disaster. Adelin was linked to the Anglo-Saxon royal line by his mother.

Can you give any examples of the Anglo Saxon nobility from before 1066 managing to retain their position? Nobility in the Kingdom of England post-1075 was wholly Norman.

Anglo Saxons didnt displace or genocide Britons. That was disproved years ago and it's generally understood now that there was immigration from Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians, they mixed with the Briton populations and a culture of merged Britons and Germanics emerged that is now called Anglo Saxonism. Many burials that have been tested show that the buried nobles were of Briton origin, not Germanic.

Also, Normans didn't displace or genocide people either, as you said. Infact they left basically 0 genetic evidence they were in Britain.

ironically, many of the Normans that came over were actually Bretons and traced their heritage back to Britain anyway. Also, after the war many of the Anglo Saxons retained their positions and even married into Norman families. The names being French is just a remnant of the fact that court documents and literature was written in French because when William was ruler the seat of his Kingdom was in Normandie.

later on the Normans adopted English. They also integrated very quickly into Welsh, Irish and Scottish society and you may have heard the term "became more Irish than the Irish themselves".

The harrying of the North was to quell rebellion in Yorkshire and the North by burning and saltign the Earth, killing peasants and animals. That was basically a genocide in the North of England.

Also, Danes didn't cuck Britain. They were actually very appeasing to the native Britons, hired many Britons as mercenaries when fighting against other Britons and so on.

I'd argue they gained power through York being a trade hub thanks ot their continental connections than through war.

Which Anglo Saxons retained their positions? The nobility was Normanised by 1075, the vast majority of the clergy had been replaced by Normans at least by the time of William II's accession in 1100. I'm no proponent of 'Norman Yoke' but to claim that the Anglo-Saxons experienced no kind of displacement or subjugation is false.

>later on the Normans adopted English. They also integrated very quickly into Welsh, Irish and Scottish society and you may have heard the term "became more Irish than the Irish themselves".
See Geoffery Of Monmouth. Breton parents, but became so thoroughly Welsh that he called himself Welsh and even wrote about King Arthur
I didn't deny the nobles were displaced. They did however marry back into the nobility with many taking French names. In fact most of the very 'English' names today like Henry and William have Norman origins
Furthermore Henry I married an Anglo-Saxon noble Matilda

>They did however marry back into the nobility.

I'm not necessarily disputing this but can you give an example?

I did, see King Henry I

>Infact they left basically 0 genetic evidence they were in Britain.
Normans were pretty much genetically the same as the English

No, that's an example of a Norman marrying an Anglo-Saxon - not to mention the fact that the marriage was essentially made not only because it would give Henry an heir with Anglo-Saxon blood, but also because she was the daughter of Malcolm III of Scotland.

Can you provide an example of the displaced Anglo-Saxon nobility marrying back into the new Norman nobility and (by implication) retaining their power? THat was the inference of your previous post.

See screenshot

screenshot says intermarriage was probably common amongst all levels of society. k we already knew that.

Extrapolating that information to assert that 'many' Anglo-Saxon nobles essentially remained the same after the Conquest by marrying into the new nobility (why the fathers/brothers of potential Norman brides would want their female relations to marry powerless Anglo-Saxons I've no idea), quite an unfounded conclusion to come to.

Because nobility is still nobility.
You've got to understand how nobility was viewed back then. There was no prejudice among nobility of different origins, he who was born of noble blood was a noble.
Plus Norman men wanted qt Anglo-Saxon waif

No there probably wasn't prejudice between new Norman nobles and Anglo Saxon ex-nobles (I have no idea). But simply being of noble blood is different to possession of land and title, which is really what mattered. Nobles who held land had tangible power eg income, feudal tie to monarch or magnate above him/her, local courts, considered for royal office (fairly uncommon), patronage of monasteries etc. If you simply came from a noble family that used to hold land and title like the Anglo-Saxon nobles, you had none of these privileges.

>Norman men wanted qt Anglo-Saxon waif
Yeah, but this is the point. Normans called the shots generally when it came to intermarriage, precisely because Anglo-Saxon males had by and large been removed from positions of power.

>Yeah, but this is the point. Normans called the shots generally when it came to intermarriage, precisely because Anglo-Saxon males had by and large been removed from positions of power
No problem with this. Women did have power in those times and it gave the wife's family power

telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8424904/People-with-Norman-names-wealthier-than-other-Britons.html

Darcy and Percy
These two chaps literally rule the world

Arcy(D'Arcy mean "from Arcy" in French) and Percy are not actual people but French villages, during Middle Age, French orphans were named after the village they were born into;