Spartan wittiness

Spartans never considered themselves Hellenes, which was at odd with the Greek traditional understanding of ethnography at the time of the Persian War. Ancient Greeks believed the Doric peoples to be the first Hellenic group, which migrated down out of the modern Balkans and landed in Lacedaimon.

Basically the Spartans felt even less of a tie to the Hellenic identity than any other Greek polity.

lmao I only know Roman ones.
>Augustus:"Varus, where are the legions at?"
>Varus: "Lurk more"

When in Athens a Spartan observed their fortified walls and asked,"What maidens live in those towers?".

A Spartan was sent as ambassador to a foreign king. He arrived in the court with only his red cloak and walking stick. The king felt that Sparta offended him because they only sent one diplomat when the other states had sent many. The Spartan replied,"One ambassador for one king."

>come and take them
>Then we shall fight in the shade
>If

Was Spartan society basically the one in starship troopers? Did men have a choice in military service?

>Phillip: "If I come down there I will btfo you"
>Sparta: "If"
>Sparta *gets btfo*

The Spartan attitude towards foreign monarchs was top bantz

I'm also reminded of Aristagoras' visit to Cleomenes where he suggested a Spartan invasion of Persia 30 days upcountry from the Anatolian coast, to which Cleomenes replied 'You had better leave this country, Greekling'

It wasn't anything like starship troopers besides being militaristic. Men didn't have a choice, they had to serve and train. Only exception was that the sons of the kings weren't required to participate in the agoge, the military training and conditioning that all other spartan men went through, as it was seen as degrading for them.

Serving in the defense of the community was seen a civic duty of the citizen body.

I imagine Phillip just laughed off this pathetic posturing since Sparta was pretty much in decline by that point.

Starship Troopers is based on populist Athens, mainly in the period after the Peloponesian War.
Sparta was very different, with a hard class system and a proto-imperial worldview. I'll post more about Sparta in about an hour when I have access to my computer if this thread's still around.

Untrue until late in Antiquity when populist reforms and democracy became more standard; for most of Antiquity military service was only a possibility for those with enough money to field at least a shield, spear and usually helmet. In this era military service didn't always coincide with national patriotism either; many campaigns were what we would think of as privatized, even if the governing body of a city approved it (Mithradates iirc petitioned for 70 ships and men from Athens for nothing but island raids, and when he failed to even siege a city despite these vast resources was ostracized from the city).

The Spartans were significantly more patriotic, but this can be attributed to the Kings posessing the ability to declare war on whoever they wished at any time, and the attitude of legalism among the Spartiates and Helots. Polities within the Lacedaimonian sphere of influence continued the usual Greek military practices.

Well, they wore dick hats for one.

yup

Yup. He pretty much just left them alone since they were an insignificant power. When Sparta organized a rebellion Macedon sent Antipater to deal with them.

>Sparta revolts later on

They were foreigners who invaded and enslaved the locals. Their entire society was built around suppressing any possibility of a slave revolt.

Spartans were largely descended from the dorians though

I don't get these...

I don't really get the first one. But the fly one is the guy was being questioned on why he drew a tiny fly on his shield and he responded that he would get so close to the enemy that it would appear as a giant. Basically saying in every battle he charges right up into the enemies face so close that the fly is all they see.

The first one is from Herodotus. Aristagoras came to Sparta to get military assistance, but King Cleomenes refused. Aristagoras kept at it and tried to bribe the king, so the king's daughter, Gorgo, told the king to send Aristagoras away before his attempts at corruption succeeded.

penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Sayings_of_Spartans*/main.html

penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Sayings_of_Spartan_Women*.html

>lay down your weapons
>come and take them

>all spartans get killed
AYY LMAO

Reminder that the Spartans only fought to the death once. The other times they surrendered they were never punished.

>Does she let some vase drop while going or returning to the house? her husband asks her in whose honor she has broken it: “It can only be for that Corinthian stranger.”

daily reminder that Corinthians are the Greek chad

sauce? also lol at how macedonians and cretans are of dorian descend and are not seen as greeks

>The virgin Spartan vs. The chad Corinthian

I wouldn't put too much stock in them being militaristic. They had a better militia than the other citiy states. For example they were actually disciplined due to their state education. While other Greeks had little to no discipline, in fact, commanders lacked the ability to instill discipline since they were elected officials out of the citizen body. To be harsh to their men after campaign would led to social and political backlash. Instead you find instances where commanders are taken to court and convicted, attacked, and even murdered by their men for trying to instill discipline. A famous example is Xenophon, who beat a mercenary under his command for not following orders. For doing this Xenophon was taken to court and had to plead for his life.

The Spartans had a more elaborate chain of command that allowed them to divide their men into smaller units. In comparison the other Greeks didn't divide their men below the level of lochos which consisted of several hundred men.

There's also their ability to maintain a formation of the move, their use of flute players and their ability to march in step. Which the other Greeks all lacked.

Overall they weren't training for war 24/7. The requirements to maintain citizenship was tied to land ownership rather than martial prowess. Instead they were a leisure class with the state enforcing exercise and moderation.

There's a theory going on that the helots were just locals who got caught up in the formalization of laws. Basically none of the early Spartan writings mention helots.