Why isn't oratory and logic essential parts of education anymore?

why isn't oratory and logic essential parts of education anymore?
even politics is hardly a real subject in basic education anymoe

>suck a dick about it

The sort of people who run education in the West genuinely believe there is no need for that kind of education. They think all the hard problems of ethics or epistemology have been solved. There is no need to argue against liberal consensus because it's perfect, so just teach the consensus rather than wasting time

>libruhl libruhl libruhl libruhl

costs a lot of money. That and children usually shouldn't take college classes.

yes goy, everybody must go to college and be educated and for free, like you know paid by the state, go goy

>logic can't be taught in primary
brainlet

Because schools don’t care about education. It’s a baby sitting institution while the parents are at work.

Wtf I love jews now.

>being so desperately against logic, rhetorical consistency and political awareness that you strawman
who could be behind this

>political awareness
what class would this be?

civics

It is pretty depressing.

Most of the debate on education centers around wether you should focus on the students' growth as individuals or on churning out socially useful workers.

Not enough people care about forming active, sensible, reasonable, informed citizens.

Because it doesn't help me make money.
Tell me how those things would help me with my biology/physics/chemistry based education?

>Not enough people care about forming active, sensible, reasonable, informed citizens.
When educators and professionals started caring about about forming active, sensible, reasonable, informed citizens, was when logic and oratory stooped being on curriculum

Logic is the basic of the scientific method. and let's not pretend the current educational system is at all optimal for STEM either

?

Oratory and logic were taught to form the future body of citizens of Athens.

They aren’t at state funded schools but publicly funded schools do teach these things.
Kids already think they have too much to do, so making them study a subject which has a very small job pool, they are unlikely to pay attention, nothing stopping you making an after school club for this though user

I think it could be interesting for small children to play mock debates and mock elections.

You don't have ethics and philosophy class in America?

>STEM = moneyyy ;)
I'm afraid you're in for a rude awakening when you leave college, bud.

>how would understanding logic like parsimony and the scientific method, being able to effectively present my ideas to a group, and understanding how the government, which gives me fat stacks of grants, works help me with my [autism]?

Fucking STEMfags this is why we force you to take liberal arts classes, you can't see the wider picture otherwise

It literally isn't needed in basic education.

Why bother? What is to there be gained? The plebes wouldn't know what to do with such an education even if they were exposed to it in droves. The average freshmen in a mid tier state University struggles to stay awake in an introductory philosophy course. That is if they are not actively mocking the entire discipline of philosophy in the first place and being disruptive.

The plebes don't need more education. They need to return to the salt mines and rock quarries en masse instead of defiling our institutions of higher learning and dragging everyone else through the mud with their pedestrianism and lowest common denominatorism.

>t. Enlighted fedora

>why are skills needed to form your own opinions and speak up for yourself not taught?

I don't know, it's a real mystery...

>How does logic apply to science?????

>The plebes
>doesn't understand what a pleb is on a history board

>oratory used to be extremely important for leaders
>in 2016, it was a super old fart who couldn’t speak for shit, a woman who screamed “WHY AM I NOT FIFTY POINTS AHEAD YOU MIGHT ASK?!?” and a orange retard who has no vocabulary outside of “sad” and “bigly”
Fuck remember the days of Cicero? We need to go back Kate

What do you mean "logic"? If you mean stuff like A+B+=B+A that's learned in math, mostly algebra.

If you mean stuff like Wittgenstein that's an elective.

Public speeching is what oratory is called and for obvious reasons it's only an elective.

If people learn oratory they'd be hard to maniplate with the sophistry that politican rely on to get votes.

Stop posting moldbug

it's certainly more important than geography

As far as I know at UCSD most majors require some public speaking and philosophy (introductory logic) credits to graduate. Even most community colleges require some form of logic and public speaking to get an associate's. All this stuff got moved to higher education but it's still here.