Why were progressives/liberals so eager to legitimatize and ease divorce?

>why the fuck would anyone get married to someone they couldn't imagine spending the rest of their lives with

Everybody who gets married expects to stay married forever but the reality is that people fall out of love and drift apart and no longer want to be be with each other.

But the problem with divorce isn’t the separation of two partners, it’s the outrageous costs and ridiculous legal impositions that come with divorce, almost all of which fall on the man and are based on sexist concepts that were obsolete 50 years ago.

>4190259
>4190390
Weak bait

>4190518
>everything I don't like is bait

>but the reality is that people fall out of love and drift apart and no longer want to be be with each other.
boo hoo toughen the fuck up, marriage isn't about being happy it's about raising a proper family
weak ass parents get divorced fuck up the lives of their children because they have no willpower and can't be adults

>marrying for love is pretty recent
Then did men expect their wife fo act loving toward them anyway?
If I'm marrying someone because I'm being forced to, I'm not going to care about them, they can die and my day would be the same. Probably better.

That's why split custody is a thing.
Staying together for the children only makes me hate and resent the children and want to beat the shit out of them.

Keeping people in a shitty marriage is pointless. Leaving my drug addict dad was probably the best thing my mom ever did for me, even considering all the shit that comes with having a single mother.

>4190556
>men should be beat for not obeying women
>not bait

E. Michael Jones posts on Veeky Forums?

Breaking the family is the first step to collapsing a society.
>Some men are disgustig and deserve a beating for not obeying women
>for not obeying women
>obeying women
Castrate yourself

Nice meme abusive men tend to have fuck toys longer than nice guys.

>What I don't get is why bourgeois, secular gentry and urbanites living in a capitalist world order were so eager for divorce. Specifically Americans and British in the 19th and 20th centuries

Because the wealthy are for obvious reasons the most "degenerate" class of all.

You really need to ask why a wealthy businessmen would want to divorce the woman he married for twenty years so he could marry his secretary ten years his junior?

Being forced to marry someone doesn't mean you're going to dislike them, it doesn't mean you aren't going to learn to love or rely on them.
t. Spent significant amount of time grilling women who an arranged marriage.

> boo hoo toughen the fuck up, marriage isn't about being happy it's about raising a proper family

Of course it’s about being happy, otherwise why bother getting married in the first place?

We no longer live in a medieval society where we need family alliances and packs of kids to work on the farm, the entire purpose of marriage today is happiness but if the woman can bail out at anytime for any reason and take (at least) half the man’s wealth, why the fuck would any guy sign up for that?

I know a guy who got divorced several years back by his wife, who was working part time as a bank teller (and getting paid jack shit) while she went to school and the moment she got her degree and a promotion, she walked away from the marriage.

Which would have been bad enough but the divorce court granted her half their bank account, (even though she never contributed a penny to it) allowed her to keep her new car (that she never made a payment on) and then forced the ex-husband to refinance the house and give her half its value (a house he grew up in and bought off his parents, for which she never payed a dime on herself).

The only saving grace was that the assessor the court assigned to value the property, had recently been divorced and fucked over by his ex-wife himself and down-graded everything as much possible (i.e. “the roof needs replacing, the furnace is shit”, etc) to save the guy a bit of money.

Luckily they never had any kids, as she kept putting him off “until I finish school and get a good job”….

> don't do something if you're not 100% in
This is some real autism. People should take the risks.

>Of course it’s about being happy, otherwise why bother getting married in the first place?

Because marriage should ultimately be a union between two families - not a partnership that should be dissolved whenever one party feels unsatisfied

> > Of course it’s about being happy, otherwise why bother getting married in the first place?
> Because marriage should ultimately be a union between two families

This is an obsolete and irrelevant concept nowadays.

> not a partnership that should be dissolved whenever one party feels unsatisfied

If a couple doesn’t want to be together, there is no reason why they shouldn’t split.

But the woman (or in very rare cases, the man) shouldn’t be able to cash out on the deal, she should leave with no more then what she entered the agreement with.

>This is an obsolete and irrelevant concept nowadays.

Because we live in an age where "family" doesn't really mean anything.

>If a couple doesn’t want to be together, there is no reason why they shouldn’t split

And the kids that they inevitably fuck over in the divorce? "Sorry son, it's not my fault I can't stand the sight of your mom, laters"

The problem I see is that most people jump ship at the first sign of trouble. Why would a woman go through marriage counseling, conflict resolution, and all the arguments, heavy emotions, and just time alone that it would take to actually see the good in someone (and through experience and struggle, become a better person yourself) when you can just take the easy way out and get a bunch of cash and free shit while you're at it.

Marriage is idealized as all happy happy lovey joy and shit, but it's also conflict, compromise, and mutual growth. Most times, it's better to have people struggle and overcome and learn more about themselves and their partner than it is to split. Making it so easy to just opt out, especially with incentives for one party over the other, just degrades both the people involved and eventually society as a whole, and fucks over any children involved as well.

>This is an obsolete
wrong. Society has gone to shit and it causes mass shooters to spring up
>irrelevant
Not for long as the student loan crisis continues to force children to live with their parents into early adulthood and middle age, causing the extended family to return.

>it causes mass shooters to spring up
hwat now

being lured in by money, but trapped by with the baby dick is also a big reason hence the BBC.

Married women are least liable to support them, so eliminate and reduce it.

>Divorce causes mass dysfunction in children
>All the shooters always come from broken homes

> Divorce causes mass dysfunction in children
Well, then we should ban divorce if you have children. But allow it, if you haven't or they grew up. This is simply fair.

Being forced to marry doesn't mean you are suddenly going to like your spouse either, and if you don't like your husband you can well grow to hate him even more if you're forced to put up with his disgusting face and his piece of shit existence that doesn't satisfy you. A man that forces a woman to marry him and stay married to him against her will has no right to complain when she treats him lile trash and cheats on him with someone better. She has her own desires and ambitions he has no right to ignore.

Counseling and conflict can have no resolution if the other party is not interested in there being any other than "my way or the highway." A lot of counseling and marriage therapy fails exactly for that reason.

>Why would a woman go through marriage counseling, conflict resolution, and all the arguments, heavy emotions, and just time alone that it would take to actually see the good in someone (and through experience and struggle, become a better person yourself)

Because there is no good in some husbands. You can do all that and still hate the man in the end because he deserves to be hated. Especially if the woman has ambitions like having a career in a certain field and doesn't care to lolk after children, the man is going to be nothing but an obstacle to her, and obstacles need to be removed.

Your not wanting to refund a woman her time wasted with you is only incentive for a woman to keep her working so as not to lose her standard of living in case of divorce.
>ban divorce if you have children
No. Absolutely unfair while there's still people who oppose abortion and birth control and men who expect sex from their wives, especially if they've been forced together.

Because lifelong marriages are not something they especially care about and they don't think divorcing is wrong?
Obviously if you take idiosyncratic conservatives values, liberals will care a lot less about these.

*look

I don't get /pol/acks, the society they are proning seems horrible to live in, what is the appeal for them?

>t. soyboy trying to score roastie points
Pathetic

I'm not sure about divorce but adultery should be penalized harshly.

>And the kids that they inevitably fuck over in the divorce?

Kids don't get inevitably fucked over in a divorce. I'm engaged to a man whose parents divorced and he's better than all of you.

Wrong.

Absolutely unfair when you want to force people to marry someone they don't care for and want to deprive them of any option to better their life by getting rid of the dead weight. Don't complain when people rebel.

>breaching a contract you signed up for and ripping your own family apart because you want to ride the cock carousel in your mid 30s is moral and should be completely legal
No penalty for adultery and sex out of wedlock unironically fucked modern society far harsher than gay marriage ever could. Cuckservatives are barking at the wrong tree.

>all the arguments, heavy emotions, and just time alone that it would take to actually see the good in someone (and through experience and struggle, become a better person yourself

Nigger please, there's no becoming a better person and there's no good to see in a hindering turd that just wants to block you in your advancement through life. Heavy emotions? I just want you to kill yourself, nothing more than that.

Being an asshole alpha is attractive at first but its a gimmick that gets old eventually. I didn't beat my first girlfriend or anything but she was definitely attracted to my coarse attitude. But that sort of shit easily crosses over into immaturity and I could tell it was the reason we didn't last in the long run.

If you could somehow enforce that then you would have barely any marriages and children, harsh divorce laws and natalism are not comptatible unless women need to marry to live.

It was being enforced in most nations of the world pre-war. It was the norm for most of global history, only the current development is an outlier.

>breaching a contract you signed up for
>you signed up for
If you are forcing someone into a marriage, they did not sign up for anything, they were forced into it against their will and the contract is null and void. No contract is valid if it's not voluntarily entered.

>ripping your own family apart
If they would force their daughter into a relationship she doesn't care for, they have already shown they don't care for her, therefore they have no right to expect her to care about them.

>sex out of wedlock
A lot of couples who have sex out of wedlock end up marrying each other. Why? Because it's something they want to in that case. I had sex with my bf and now we're getting married, you gonna bitch about that?

>because you want to ride the cock carousel in your mid 30s
I was a virgin until my mid 30s because I didn't want to have sex with a man who doesn't love me on MY terms. I found a man who does just that, and now we're getting married. Tons of women out there do exactly the same.

That social structure quickly crumble if you don't need intergenerational family units, a strong support of your local communauty and to marry if you are a woman to survive.
People don't want to live that way if they can avoid it, you always had spinsters despite the social pressure because of the few professions allowing women to be financially independant.

>you are forcing someone into a marriage
But I'm not. Either get married or don't, it shouldn't be mandatory, but you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage so for procreation it should be a requirement.

>I was a virgin until my mid 30s
Okay so I'm replying to a bait, carry on then.

>That social structure quickly crumble if you don't need intergenerational family units, a strong support of your local communauty and to marry if you are a woman to survive.
Have a hard ponder about what the cause and effect was there.

>It was being enforced in most nations of the world pre-war

And the people hated it and got rid of it, because it made your life horrible to live in if you got paired with the wrong person.
Plus it was only being enforced for the poor classes with no power. Anyone with power could separate and mingle more easily than now, and given how forensics weren't a thing yet it was easy to kill your husband or get your husband killed and blame it on something else. Husbands deserved it.

Now that this thread is properly derailed I want to talk about some things I've been thinking about marriage recently. I think in more modern times, both men and women (but primarily women) have begun to think of marriage as this sort of event. Where they are """supposed""" to have a wedding day and it's """supposed""" to be the best and most important day in their life. For some reason, this idealization of weddings has begun to merge with marriage as a whole. So we have a lot of women (and men too) who are getting married for the wrong reasons. Marriage is not an event. Marriage is a lifelong contract between two people. It's a soft, negotiable contract, but it requires itself to be constantly renegotiated in order for success.

Compare this to 18th century marriage and the centuries before it. Where marriage was considered an economic necessity by most and a political necessity by some. The idea that marriage is meant to give you a lifetime with someone who constantly fulfills your every whim and desire and challenges you to be a better (you) is a relatively new thing and it's entirely possible that many couples are merely not built for this kind of marriage. Instead of simply agreeing to basically have kids people instead have to agree to complete the other person. Which, depending on the person, can be an impossible task.

So to answer your question, OP. People were eager to legitimize divorce, because divorce is necessary in marriages of fulfillment rather than a simple contract. It's also important for Westerners who don't feel like honor killing their spouse for cheating on them another option to leave the marriage.

>you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage
Then nobody will get married anymore because it's the standard for engaged couples to have sex before getting married, because one needs to know what they're getting into.

>I'm replying to a bait
Why do you people always dismiss as "bait" everything that goes against your narrative? You only look stupid denying reality.

Do you think all legislative changes are mirrorring the popular opinion?

>being shitty is abusive
it really isn't

It's better to stay celibate and unmarried than to whore around.

>Why do you people always dismiss as "bait" everything that goes against your narrative?
First of all it's highly improbable for a female to stay a virgin until his mid 30s, and second, what kind of man would breed a woman in her mid 30s, considering she's pretty much useless as a mother material at that point (risky pregnancies, risk of autism in the child, miscarriage, deformed fetus and various neurological conditions included in that bag for pregnant women if they're past 30)? You're basically saying that it's not bait, it's just you're biologically defective and your boyfriend is a retard.

A woman shouldn't need marriage to survive, if a woman is being forced into marriage because it's either that or starve to death it makes no sense to expect her to like it and want to stay in it or be pleasant to her husband in any way. It's like expecting slaves to be happy and want to stay in their slave condition, of course they will do everything to escape it and not be slaves anymore. It's objectively shit.

I'm not arguing for forced marriages. I'm arguing for death penalty or at least a prison sentence for adultery.

Yes it is.

You think having sex with your boyfriend who has proposed to you and wants to marry you is "whoring around"? Even in the middle ages they had pre-contracts that showed intention to marry and nobody faulted the woman if the man didn't keep his word on them.

>it's highly improbable for a female to stay a virgin until his mid 30s
>his
Still perfectly possible. I'm the proof of that.

>what kind of man would breed a woman in her mid 30s
The kind of man that is better than your kind obviously. He got a loving partner, you got nothing.

>you're biologically defective and your boyfriend is a retard
Your bitter jealousy at others being happy anf fulfilled won't get you a gf, in fact it's one of the reasons why you don't have one.

>You think having sex with your boyfriend who has proposed to you and wants to marry you is "whoring around"?
No, and your reading comprehension is trash.
>Still perfectly possible. I'm the proof of that.
You're an anonymous poster on Veeky Forums. For all I know you might not even be a woman let alone a virgin.
>He got a loving partner
He got a faulty incubator after expiration date.
>you got nothing
Quit assuming.

>I'm arguing for death penalty or at least a prison sentence for adultery
And that will never happen because men cheat more than women.

You're still ignoring the fact that engaged couples can have sex before being married without it preventing or diminishing their eventual marriage.

Nah, the thing that fucked modern society is lack of decent jobs for young generations.

>And that will never happen because men cheat more than women.
Do they cheat with a man?

>No
But you keep yapping about "adultery" while ignoring actual couple dynamics.
>You're an anonymous poster on Veeky Forums. For all I know you might not even be a woman let alone a virgin
I'm getting married soon, of course I'm not a virgin anymore. But I was until my mid 30s. And yes, I am a woman.
>He got a faulty incubator after expiration date
Insults still won't get you a gf, dearie.
>Quit assuming
Your bitter, butthurt behavior is indication enough. Why get so mad and butthurt at others you feel the need to insult them for things that are completely unrelated to you otherwise?

Possibly, same-sex relations are higher in men than in women.

> men cheat more than women
This makes no sense. Men cheat with women so rates are the same.

You're trying to personalize a general problem and repeatedly failing at it, it should be pretty obvious it's not a good debate tactic.
Also I've been married for 5 years now.

There is no problem, whoring around is the nonsensical term.

Whoring around is pretty self explanatory. Why did you assume I meant you in particular? Why even bring up yourself? Low IQ preventing you from abstract, general thought?

ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america

>reported
So women cheat and then lie about it, hardly surprising.

> yeah... i am t-t-t-totally cheated on my spouse, such sexual beast I am, hehe...
It is like men are likely to over-report their sexual achievements and women are shamed for being a whore, etc.

>Whoring around is pretty self explanatory
Not it's not since people like you call "whoring around" any instance of sex that causes loss of virginity in a woman. Also you're talking to different people.

>You're trying to personalize a general problem
When you make the "problem" so nonsensical, confusionary and undefined, of course one is going to take it personally since they're going to perceive it as an unfair attack on them as they have done nothing wrong. There is no general problem here but walking turds like you wanting to attack women unfairly, out of a desire to oppress.

80% of divorces in America are initiated by the woman, not because the husband is an asshole who cheats on her (most cheating is done by women) or beats her and such but simply because the woman has become bored with him and wants a change and because the modern divorce industry grants her a huge payout for divorcing him, there is little reason for her to stay.

The solution is simple, men should stop being boring.

That's your assumption though. Got any hard evidence of your affirmation or it's just your useless, bullshit opinion everyone has the right to discard?

Same to you.

>water cooler SJW talking points, no substance
Yawn.

Well, this is true. Men pretend they're more promiscuous than they really are, while women pretend to be less promiscuous. Reasons are obvious.

>the point of marriage is to be entertained
Are you a literal child?

I am the realist. If boredom is leading cause of the divorce, you shouldn't be boring. Perfectly reasonable solution.

> That's your assumption though.
It is directly proven by your own chart as it is about reports on cheating and not about actual cheating.

>if being black is the leading cause of murder, you shouldn't be black

>most cheating is done by women
Statistics have already proven you wrong on that.
>or beats her and such but simply because the woman has become bored with him and wants a change
Yet there is no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

How to explain? These data are consistent with what has been seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage.
Younger couples – who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships — experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationship crumbles beyond repair, both experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it – and part, if it can’t be healed.
Married women report lower levels of relationship quality than married men. In contrast, women and men in non-marital relationships reported equal levels of relationship quality. Rosenfeld did a study on this (sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150822154900.htm) and his results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable.

That doesn't mean the participants chose to lie though. Reports can be done truthfully and in good faith, and researchers have a criteria of choosing subjects who are likely to report truthfully because they know their study won't have any credibility otherwise. Reported doesn't mean false.

Boredom is not the leading cause of divorce though, it's dissatisfaction with your husband. He isn't good enough and that causes conflict, depression, hatred. For example he doesn't clean up after himself and expects you to clean for him when you're tired and you want to do your own thing instead, so if you clean you're going to be pissed because you can't do what you wanted to do, and if you don't clean he's going to bitch at you or let the house get infested with cockroaches because he's too shitty to clean himself. Good reason to end it with someone imo.

The solution is beat the shit out of your male children and don't spoil them doing all the housework for them, teach them to do housechores and that they can starve and die in their own filth if they expect someone else to cook and clean for them. That's how I expect to do with my kid should it be a boy.

It is about actual cheating though, as reported by the participants of the study.

This.

>letting people do what they want is a good way to control them

This is why society is in collapse. Marriage is a lifetime commitment, sans extreme circumstances. If you can't commit for life, don't get married. Its that simple.

Soft Genocide Measures Promoted by American Eugenics & Planned Parenthood to reduce US population in 1969.

anti-fertility chemicals in the water, air, food

Modify tax policies
Postpone or avoid marriage (via master degree job requirements, economic crisis)

Encourage increased homosexuality
Educate for family limitation
Fertility control agents in water supply
Encourage women to work
Reduce/eliminate paid maternity leave
Reduce/eliminate social benefits

Chronic Depression (via crime rates, economic crisis, social isolation)
Require women to work and provide few child care facilities
Limit/eliminate publicly-financed medical care, scholarships, housing, loans and subsidies to families with more than N children.
Encourage increased homosexuality
Compulsory education of children

jaffememo.com/full-list-of-population-control-measures-listed-on-the-jaffe-memo/62.htm

Because if you make it easier to dissolve the family unit, you increase people's reliance on government.

Additionally you get an easy way to attack religious authority in your country by making them seem backwards and regressive, and later by accusing its members of hippocracy when they begin to get divorced. This leads to the cheapening and desanctification of marriage in the eyes of the public. Think about how many times this exact line of argumentation was used by the people pushing for gay marriage, "Why do you care about the sanctity of marriage? Look how many marriages end in divorce."

Thats probably because women always want an easy out. Even if they're commited to the person and relationship.

Actually, it collapses from atomization. People should live with each other in the extended family, not forget their own parents under age fucking 20.

> depression is genocide

That's why you don't get hitched until at least 3 years in

No, it's because most men are objectively shit.

>People should live with each other in the extended family
Fuck that shit I want my own private space, being with family makes me want to kill my family if they don't fuck off and leave me alone in my own private space.

if what they want is to focus on satisfying their urges as opposed to interfering in your designs then yes it is

>not being able to backstab my husband is hell on earth
Everyday it becomes clearer women should have no human rights.

Marriage is supposed to be an eternal commitment but something you can disgard like a boyfriend/girlfrind relationship.