Anyways, i liked how the discussion was going so might as well post my last reply
The meaning of the word "Ethnicity" as we know it today and as we tend to apply to cultural groups is relatively recent. The word itself comes from the greek "Ethnos" itself coming from the word "Ethnikos" which originally meant "Pagan"
The world's earliest dictionary appearance of the word "Ethnicity" in the Oxford Dictionary is attested in 1972. It's first usage is attributed to the American sociologist David Riesman in 1953. Prior to WW II, in the United States, the term was a polite term to refer to Jews, Italians, Irish, and anyone who wasn't of British descent. Until the term went into vernacular and every day circulation, the term "Race" was used, but it fell largely out of use after WW II since it was associated with german racialism. But the term itself proved to be as faulty as the term "race", since it did not encompass a clearly defined group of people.
In the study called "Who are the Lue?", Michael Moerman went to Thailand in 1965 to study the Lue people. But when he started describing who they are, he quickly ran into trouble. When he asked individual Lue what were their typical characteristics, they would mention cultural traits they shared with neighboring tribes, but not between themselves. This proved faulty in trying to define the boundary of the Lue ethnicity. Since these people did not share the same identity based on language or political organization, he concluded in his study that "Someone is a Lue by virtue of believing and calling himself a Lue and of acting in ways that validate his Lueness"
But ethnicity is a fluid concepts. Ethnicities get assimilated, merged, and new ones are created all the time.
Some examples of new identities are Macedonians, Austrians, the Karen people.
Zachary Kelly
Greeks used the word ethnos the same way Jews used the word goy, it literally meant "nation" but over time it just started getting applied to foreigners. Also many people today, /pol/acks included, think the word ethnicity/ethnos means biological race, but the correct word for that is actually GENOS which literally means race and it's related to the word Genesis which is where the word Genetics comes from.
Thomas Edwards
This. The thread got deleted because /pol/ keeps trying to find ways to justify their bullshit with pseudoscience and it's shitting a the board
William Walker
No one uses ethnicity to mean race other than Americans
Logan Diaz
How realistic is this CK2 culture map, especially Mesopotamia? I highly doubt the assyrians and kurds were in the majority in those regions.
Oliver Anderson
>ohrid is serbian instead of bulgarian
David Sullivan
I mean you're not wrong but a majority of people on this website are Americans. I'd say that ETHNOS is culture+blood+identity, while GENOS is just pure biology.
Colton Cooper
The question of ethnicity certainly isn't clear-cut, just as it is hard to draw the line between languages and dialects. In the end, identity (the sense of belonging of the individuals in question) is really in most cases the best metric to go by.
Anyway, we should seriously start some kind of project (maybe with some connection to /int/ as well) to improve on this map because I've heard others complain about it before. I made a fix for Slovene dialects once. >pic related
Mason Davis
>expecting realism from a video game >actually discussing video games in the context of history
The ABSOLUTE state of Veeky Forums
Jeremiah Scott
>In the end, identity (the sense of belonging of the individuals in question) is really in most cases the best metric to go by.
Which is why you'll never manage to improve that map with someone, because they'll all start to cling on who's dialect belongs to the greater language which is part of country X/Y/Z. As specially ex-Yugoslavia.
Lincoln Hall
>Anyway, we should seriously start some kind of project (maybe with some connection to /int/ as well) to improve on this map Well for starters, Hungarian language in Slovakia is nowhere near that widespread. Maybe 50 years ago but not now. On that map there's Hungarian language as far north as Nitra which is nonsense.
Nicholas Hernandez
There are objective ways to do it.
Aiden Lewis
Why is Ireland Germanic?
Samuel Thompson
Because they speak mostly English, which is a Germanic language.
This meme needs to die. Sure, they have a slightly different dialect but it's a lot closer to Swedish than Norwegian.
Same with Scania.
David Mitchell
forgot pic
Aaron Russell
Why are the Celtic languages so overstated? Most of the Highlands, Cornwall and the Isle of Man should be red, or conversely most of Ireland blue.
Lucas Jackson
Because retards dont know the difference between language and ethnicity. I suppose chief keef is germanic because he speaks english too
Luis Clark
So is it an ethnicity map in theory
Jeremiah Parker
>chief keef >speaks english Debatable.
Colton Brooks
No its not, is chief keep germanic in theory?
Andrew Gray
What you imply to be nationality correlated between language and identity is what's called and "Ethnic nation"
That may not be the case for France, the UK, Spain, Italy or other nations that do not aspire to linguistical characteristics, but rather civic ones.
Ethan Gray
...
Blake White
>Orléanais >Français Kek
There is no such thing as "Français", the so-called French Parisian is merely a bastardized version of Orleanais(it should be renamed Carnutais btw) and Tourangeau.
Zachary Sanders
It would also explain why Europeans were murdering the fuck out of each other prior to recent times
Thomas Foster
>mfw people went to war over things like that hundreds of years ago
Jonathan Fisher
Tbh generally people refer to ones culture and language when they refer to ethnicity. Don't know how it was in the past but it isn't only genetics like the /pol/acks want you to believe.
Jayden Flores
Kek
Julian Clark
Slavs do not exist
Julian Hughes
That's a bold statement
Julian Sanchez
They do, but they shouldn't.
Ayden Johnson
Linguistically or ethnically?
Jose Jenkins
I really like those threads, here is my contribution
