"Sugar causes obesity, look at this science" - Fed Up

>most studies cross sample americans
>most americans diets are extremely high in both animal fats as well as sugar
just ask yourself which one sounds worse, eating high fat and no sugar, or eating high sugar and no fat?

Arteries are clogged WITH fats, but not because of them. What causes the clogging in the first place is the inflammation caused by excess sugars, which makes the walls of the blood vases to let fats adhere and cause the clogging itself.

It's like the equivalent of the gun rights thing of blaming the gun and not the person that shoots it. Under normal conditions fat doesn't 'stick' to the inner walls of the veins, it's the inflammation that causes that in the first place.

Yeah, I haven't worded it in a very scientific manner but it's still pretty much true.

because they're both shit and pander to the demographic of lazy slobs who don't want to actually work hard to be healthy, they want any answer other than "eat less"

People are not weed eaters.
We don't simply become fat with excess fuel.
We have metabolic rates that will easily keep us at a static weight for years in spite of consuming calories in excess of TDEE, provided it's not excessive.
Metabolic rates are determined by countless variables in diet and genetics.

Interesting.
So would the inflammation be a big deal if you basically never ate fats?
Which causes diabetes?

...

They both sound bad......

you gonna hit me with a source or are we just gonna get an even deeper look into your "bait pic" folder?

Try eating nothing for 2 weeks and see how that fares.

Eating too much causes obesity. Sugar is calorie dense. Animal products are calorie dense.

I get where you're going and yes, people do blame obesity on metabolism frequently when they're simply lazy cunts but, that doesn't mean metabolism is a non-factor.

>animal fats that we have been eating for the entirety of human history sound just as bad as refined sugars that we have only been eating recently and cause tons of issues
are you gay or retarded?

So you don't believe our endocrine system's reaction to specific food types has anything at all do do with it?
Just calories in, calories out?
That's the entire story?
Jesus fuck, Veeky Forums is stupid and reductionist.
just because whale cunts on tumblr blame metabolism excessively doesn't mean that this well studied system doesn't really exist.

>animal fats that we have been eating for the entirety of human history
Actually, meat was more of a rare delicacy, most days, early humans were utterly sustained by foraging.
More likely, it wasn't until we perfected pack hunting strategies that we ate meat regularly.

ITT: Veeky Forums proves it's intellectually unable to work with a theory of diet more nuanced than "calories in-calories out".

>inb4 fat accusations

Adhering to "calories in-calories out" will 'work' for most people but it's hardly the entire story of what's going on.

>upper human body completely changed so it could throw shit at things
>"but meh gut didnt change :(((((((((((((((((((((("

nature.com/news/baseball-players-reveal-how-humans-evolved-to-throw-so-well-1.13281
phys.org/news/2013-06-chimps-humans-baseball-pitcher.html
youtube.com/watch?v=1y__4xX8xp8

what is the exploding spleen as evidence that our digestion track shortened because we became more meat eaters than plant eaters

then why has meat been so closely linked to cancer (not over consumption but simply eating any meat at all)?

>spleen

why do I keep forgetting this name, jebus

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecum

Why is your mother such a huge whore and has constantly dicks in her?

So we should ignore the cancer studies because we're good at throwing things?

Because morons overcook their meat.

which other animal is so good at throwing things that it can kill other animals with it?

I mean, the throwing arm could be a defensive adaptation......
Tons of animals have specialized killing tools and many are herbivores.

>could be

or it could be in line with the other evidence, even cave paintings that we used spears to kill shit, and that we thought that it was awesome. Tools found, carbon dating etc.

Well if your life expectancy is 30, yea, cancer is hardly on your radar.

Probably the scenario where you read books and inform yourself.
>being educated by NETFLIX
Really?

Well if you have genes to process fats better, those genes dont go away with age, it means that you can process fats better YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. Meaning that theoretically you could life just as long as the other races who dont eat meat as long as you dont go over your natural limit, because there will be little inflammation, or insulin problems because of meat. Or whatever those 3x fat genes mean to your body.

I read books about shit I'm genuinely interested in.
I have 0 interest in nutrition beyond trying to dodge cancer and that 'interest' is primal.
Life's hardly long enough to become well informed about one thing.

I see your point but we have genes that allow us to metabolize chocolate, which will kill some other animals, not because we should be ingesting huge amounts of chocolate but so that we can turn to it if our normal staples become scarce.
I want to know what diet will give me the longest, healthy life.
I don't want to hear arguments about how dangerous food is merely low-grade food.

and to add to that post: no I dont know and have no opinion on the meats being carcinogenic. Red meats especially (or actually only?) The natty weight lifters tell me to eat red meats more for test. And the jews want to tell me that its cancer. Well I may not be entirely scientific in this reasoning but I chose to eat red meats MORE because of this. But in the scientific arena I would have to retreat for I do not know or care enough about this.

Well then, you will ultimately reap what you sow when it comes to that level of effort.
Enjoy your next educational NETFLIX documentary
>life's hardly long enough
Says the guy who most likely spends a gross amount of time on Veeky Forums

Well if you exercise regularly and are young, you can pretty much eat whatever you goddamn please.
But we won't want to exercise like we do now when were old and I want to know what I should be eating my ENTIRE life.

I am of a similar mind, but in my puzzle in life I add other factors, like a proper healthy state of mind, enough mental energy, good functioning, sharp memory etc.

and for that you need test, and meat gives you that. Plus in life, many places do not have vegan stuff, which makes getting your minerals quite problematic. Its also generally easier to consume meat, and it will also fill all of your needs, which you will not need to supplement with pills

But if you truly want to play this autistic game of life, with no regards for these things then this.

ergo-log.com/reduce-your-mortality-risk-factor-5-diet.html

you get to learn the glycemic index and which foods are on it. You get to learn how to keep your insulin response from your foods to a minimum. How to avoid potentially new pitfalls (like gmo or additives)

Being a glutton causes obesity.

/thread

>But we won't want to exercise like we do now when were old

Speak for yourself, to reap most of the benefits of the LDL exercise reduction, you just need to do near 150 minutes of exercise each week, easy to get to. Some of it can be filled with brisk walking, more of it can be filled with some cardio. In my running club there are plenty of oldies who are doing it still at their age. Even many with kids.

and exercise is just trying to fit your body in the old mode to which it adjusted itself to. Maybe it could do better with sedentary life with time, but these civilizations usually dont last long enough to be relevant on an evolution time scale.

Fuck you, TL;DR versions of knowledge are essential to the function of our society.
We don't fucking have time to be re-inventing the wheels of all aspects of our lives and still progress, you elitist cunt.
What sorts of protections against dogma and propaganda to books have that documentaries don't?
I bet you don't even have an answer to the thread's question.

>NETFLIX

Yes, Netflix is indeed a video sharing platform.

...

more like jewflix

to reach enlightenment and everlasting peace, you must systematically and recursive remove all cares of the body so the mind can roam free. part of this involves training yourself to resist all poisons associated with modern agri-business practices.

a diet of homemade granola soaked in homemade yoghurt, homegrown vegetables with homemade bread, beer, and cheese, and homegrown legumes dressed in homemade apple cider vinegar, for example, is possible for most people to some extent.

>Fuck you, TL;DR versions of knowledge are essential to the function of our society.

Also, it's not like books are somehow immune from the influence of liars who want you to believe something so they can make more shekels. Man, even scientific papers can't be trusted since so many scientists receive funding that originated from big soda or big dairy or what have you.

Climb the ladder of any publishing house and you'll find a Jew too.
What's your fucking point?
It's blanket thinking faggots like you that conflagration the issue of Zionism by lazily hurling bullshit about all DA JEWZZ.
As if an ENTIRE ethnic group could ALL be in on a secret.

muuuuuuuuuuer lieeeeeeeek jeoooooooooowlfeeeeeeeeeeeeeex

**conflate

> t.

/thread

You came to the wrong place, OP.

>TL;DR versions of knowledge are essential to the function of our society
no. a well educated citizenry is essential to the function of our society

yes. anyone can get a PhD, anyone can fund a study, and anyone can start a journal

>Which causes diabetes?
Diabetes is caused by a defective or damaged pancreas, you can ruin your pancreas several ways, one of those ways is by eating so much sugar that your metabolism can't keep up and your insulin tells your body to store the sugar as visceral fat.

The other way to do it is to be such a fucking fatass on animal fat that you kill you pancreas with visceral fat.

The key is visceral fat, mitigating factors are mostly genetic.

Most fat people eat too much sugar and too much fat, and to much protein, because that's why they are fatasses.

Anyone who tells you you can have as much of X as you want and it won't hurt you is a lying sack of shit, you can die drinking too much water for fucks sake.

Well think of it this way: there need to be some heralds, because life is complicated.

How long would it take for you to learn pic related? Or how about all the different economic systems, or how about computer science. These are specializations that take time, effort and also ability to learn.

That is why in a good society we had reliable people going off into each route on their own and then advising others who did not go into that route, about what they should do. Backed by science and peers in their little world.

But it all more or less has fallen apart hasnt it? Too much industry, not enough good neutral scientists. All quite horrible. From BOTH sides, from both the vegetarian, carnivore, omnivore etc sides, there are industries everywhere just shitting into the souls of its citizenry.

I could probably learn all of this properly and be neutral to it all, but nobody would pay me most likely lol.

So all the doctors, astronauts and theoretical physicists who hire a plumber when their hot water breaks are driveling idiots for not going out of their discipline and becoming fully educated plumbers themselves?
GTF Outta here with your weak ass logic.

Eating excess calories over a long period of time causes accumulation of fat. You become obese. It doesn't matter the form of calories.

Obesity also increases the risk of diabetes by chasing metabolic stress on cells and leading to insulin insensitivity. It's exacerbated by excess fat intake.

This post is the one gold nugget in this shit thread.

The endocrine system is involved but you consider how we digest both fats and sugars. Eating excess sugars will eventually be metabolised to fats. Fats will accumulate if you overeat fats or sugars.

It is fairly straightforward, the biology isn't complicated.

>what is insuline
>what is creatine
>what is ATP
>what is ketones
>what is fat storage
>what is the various chemical signals that change all the various deposits
>what is fibre
>what are anti toxants
>what are estrogenic compounds

this list can go on for 5x times more the amounts, in which it can even barely 101 the most important components.

This is misinformation. Type 1 diabetes is the dysfuntion of the pancreatic cells. This is genetic and can't be caused by food.

Type 2 is caused by insulin insensitivity. This is caused by diet.

Excess fat in the blood which is caused by eating too much fat or sugar will cause insulin insensitivity.

How does dietary sugar end of as fat in the blood?
Not trying to shit on u, genuinely curious.

Think that list is enough to spook me?

The only ones involved in obesity are ketones, fat storage, insulin, ghrelin, leptin, oxidants.

It doesn't change what I've said, eating excess calories will cause obesity.

I'm not gonna write a paper to counter you.

Insulin is released when glucose levels increase (eating sugar)

Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood glucose, which is converted into triglycerides; decrease of insulin causes the reverse.

If you want a link here:
researchgate.net/publication/221930616_Insulin_effects_in_muscle_and_adipose_tissue

simple version: your liver turns sugar into glycogen, which is stored in your muscles for energy (or burned directly for your brain or heat)
If your stores are already full, the liver converts the sugar into fatty acids and stores it in your body.

Imagine a fat person: they have to transport both incoming fat (diet), and converted fat (storing) in the same blood vessel in addition to all the other crap. This is another reason fat people have heart attacks more often.

>early humans were utterly sustained by foraging
You can't do that in winter, or spring.
Also, you're ignoring fish and small animals. Humans are the only creatures that can throw accurately, so small animals were easily picked off with rocks, and fish with spears.
Keep in mind that we used tools (handaxes, sticks) even before we were homo sapiens.
> it wasn't until we perfected pack hunting strategies that we ate meat regularly
Pack hunting doesn't require much evolution. It can be done by almost all social predators. So it is possible we could do that from the beginning, though I'm not aware of evidence for or against.

There was a diet where people consumed Rice, Fruit juice and pure refined sugar ans they lost weight. Look Up Rice diet, very interesting.

Overall what they say is, of you consume fat with carbs you gain weight but carbs on their own does Not, only of you fill Up your glucogen Stores and thats like 600g carbs daily

Succinct and accurate

The plaque in your arteries comes from your mouth. It breaks off the teeth in colonies and doesn't get destroyed but the stomach. Avoid sugar so you don't get the arterial blockage

So, if i'm getting this right, an excess of fat or an excess of sugar in diet will lead to the same result, an excess of fat will just skip the conversion process sugar undergoes in an excess calorie environment.
How does that sound?

Another great source of evidence is how animals react to you, and to other animals. Why are they always, constantly scared for you? When there are also other animals that they are mostly comfortable with? Even animals of similar size as us.

try doing the throwing motion near birdo's.

Made me kek

extreme logic: either get a PhD-depth knowledge in something or don't do it. there's already so much information about everything, of such low quality (wikipedia), that we need to raise the standard of "minimum basic knowledge"

>something something, scientists hire plumbers, something something
pssh, nothin personnel, kid

Well animals are scared of unfamiliar animals, regardless of the danger they pose.
Your logic is sound but again, I evoke the chocolate analogy. I believed we evolved to be TOLERANT of many different foods to simply dodge starvation.
Keep in mind that this says nothing about optimal nutrition.
If scarcity were a non-issue (like it is now for the 1st world), we can't assume we would eat any meat but you can bet your ass we'd be eating wild fruits and vegetables.

>I don't read replies that make me feel stupid
Gonna cope your way to enlightenment?

That's the gist of it, in this context

Its just that for diet perhaps you may need such fine requirements. There are many variables and many factors at play that can influence everything. I am not even sure how well other factors like evolution, or exercise are understood. Things are still limited in common research errors and also limits in technology to measure the things in real life. Fucking shitty ass bloodtests.

I think that mostly for this topic we do need high tier heralds, not blogposters or lifters, they can get to what they want with fucking needles and injecting themselves with crap.

That is why veganists also probably still havent been banned from society though. There are not enough virtuous and good scientists left who are willing to pull the heavy weights and to settle this garbage.

I really hate this meme. The life expectancy is 30 because birth was so dangerous, so most people died immediately. If you made it through the first 5 years of your life, people lived between much longer than 30.

>extreme logic: either get a PhD-depth knowledge in something or don't do it. there's already so much information about everything, of such low quality (wikipedia), that we need to raise the standard of "minimum basic knowledge"
How does any of that dumb shit you just said refute the idea: 'life is too short to become an expert on many topics'?

animals and their behavior, their genetic code has some mention of us probably. Of predators at the very least. Of predator behavior. Maybe even of different predator ways. There is most likely nothing like "unfamiliar" in their minds as we have been with them for a long ass time. They too just classify us.

In the hierarchy of evidence, "expert testimonial" is the lowest tier. It's basically the same as anecdote.

The diet garbage has been settled for a long time. There is a obesity and diabetes consensus amongst scientists.

Veganism is just hip and cool and only uses facts that support it.

well to me it seems pretty obvious that veganits should be locked up in mental asylums, I guess scientists in general are shitbags then. Leaf eater genocide when?

Yes I know how averages are misleading with 2 peak curves but that doesn't negate my point about cancer being mostly a modern way to die.

>Which is right?
Neither and both.
>ignoring the obvious
EATING TOO MUCH FOOD OVER LONG PERIODS OF TIME CAUSES OBESITY.

There is a CHANCE that glyphosate residue (from extensive Roundup herbicide use) in common foods like wheat, corn, beans, peas, and soybeans, is fucking people's metabolism up enough that it's contributing to obesity. But for the most part it's people stuffing their faces with way more food than they need all the time, being sedentary, and overall making BAD CHOICES for their lives.

> I believed we evolved to be TOLERANT of many different foods to simply dodge starvation.
That is true. And the way I see it, this is how evolution worked for us. At first tolerant, and then better and better suited to the environment we were in.
As to the optimal nutrition issue, I agree that we can't simply eat what our ancestors ate. However we could use those findings as clues, and also keep in mind that different people have different ancestors.
Take the increased catabolism of fats present in European descendants for instance. It definitely gave the European ancestors an advantage, and those genes are still there in their descendants.
Or the lactose tolerance which was a beneficial mutation which spread naturally in temperate areas. Interestingly, there is separate mutation which maintained lactase production beyond childhood which is found in warmer climates in Africa.
So, it's complicated, and I doubt there is such a thing as a universal optimal nutrition.

>I doubt there is such a thing as a universal optimal nutrition
Well I hope you are wrong but it does look that way now.

In addition, I would like to point out that the reason meat causes cancer is that during digestion of lipids (animal fat), your stomach makes this nasty thing called lipid peroxidation cytotoxins.

However, experiments on animals and humans have shown you can lower or even negate this if you consume enough antioxidants with your meat. And I mean negate as in 0% content, biatch

Where do you get antioxidants? Fucking everywhere. Fruits, nuts, veggies, even cocoa. Don't like that? have a glass of wine or use a marinade. No cytotoxins, no cancer. NOTHING

There's your actual problem: you're eating processed corn and wheat with your meat instead of fruits and veggies.

>X cause Y.
This statement is both wrong and right at the same time.
1:Poor nutrition on any will cause harm on anyone, this will aggravate if the individual is unhealthy and/or physically inactive.
2:Biased opinion reigns like a motherfucker on this subject. From researchers to the experiment/research itself all the way to the propagator to opinion they like to hear, and then speak about it like it is gospel. That "What The Health" documentary is the best example of it.
3:People are lazy and stupid. " I am an uninformed fuck and I want to stay that way"

Interesting, will read more.

Why dont we make our own movie about a healthy omnivore diet. Shame the fats and normies for the fatties and useless cunts that they are and that they should kys in it as well. Shit on all the industries, sugar and whatever. Maybe add some racial lore to it and evolution.

and then spread it to the reddit veganism. Each and every day just go there, make a new account and try to persuade them why their diet is shit with our documentary.

This is beyond the scope of this thread but blaming an industry for hiring a lobbyist is like blaming a tiger for eating your friend, they're both just going on instinct to grow.
As usual, we should blame our congressmen for kneeling to the industry, against their public oaths.
It's the same reason Occupy Wall Street was so stupid.
Of course banks are gonna try to sell junk bonds and other crap, we assume our congressmen will regulate it (like we told them to).

Can't fight fire with fire if you're inside the burning building. If you use their methods (ideologically biased cherrypicking) to combat them, all you're signalling is that this method is a sound argument.

Be the better man; those who are wise will know the truth from your demeanor.

well just dont be fagets, there are many people to blame and to hate upon, but most importantly you should also blame the humans themselves who do not exercise. I am not sure how well the public would receive direct shaming, but its pretty much in line with our board culture.

a shill, compromising faggot, nu cuck male without any rage, when looking at this

theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/03/less-than-3-percent-of-americans-live-a-healthy-lifestyle/475065/

would say to the people "bbbbbut u shud exersize moar :((((((((((((("

But you know what I did, I started going to natsoc threads on /pol/ where people started blaming the industry (jews) too much for this food crap and them being fat, and just started to shit on all of them, all the time, demeaning them, throwing insults at them, telling them what kind of horrible slobs they are just doing my best to make them kill themselves really.

Perhaps that needs to be done in a better form as well. Just pure vile hatred and bile. Hasnt been done in a while before, but people need to know that they are pieces of shits, and it cannot be subtle anymore. It doesnt work.

>Animal products cause obesity
no they said it causes cancer
what the health also said meat causes diabetes

Both.