Why would an all-loving God allow pointless suffering?

>that seems a bit evil to me
1. It would be more evil to create a race of mindless slaves
2. "God is the author of the evil which punishes, but not of the evil which defiles" - Aquinas, Summa Theologica

is he all powerful, or isn't he?

maybe god was lonely and wants to hang out with a bunch of other gods ^_^

He is all-powerful and makes all the right choices.
I don't see how this reply is a rebuttal of what I said. Are you implying that he could've made us both only able to do good, yet have free will? That's a paradox.

Because god created people and went into spectator mode.
Whatever suffering you get us generally the fault of other people.

if god is not the author of the evil which defiles then he is not all powerful, if he was he would be the author of all things

deism is about 200 years out of date user, just admit you're an atheist already

This, he isn't playing Sims 4 with us.

Being a stupid is a few thousand years out of date but I don't see it stopping you.

>BUT I FEEL THAT IT'S MEAN :(
>BUT I FEEL THAT IT'S WRONG :(
>BUT I FEEL THAT IT'S POINTLESS :(

though love

No, he loves all people, and killers and killed are subsets of it.

HA

>Why would God stop that which always was because our feels get hurt?
Because he's supposedly benelovent???

So that we can overcome it.

Read the Bible. Suffering is direct result of human kind severing their relationship with God in Genesis. In the beginning, man suffered no ailments. Only when we consumed the fruit and got banished from Eden did mankind know pain and suffering.

Oh man this again
>7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:7-11

suffering is just a prelude to enlightenment

I don't share that mindset.

>muh freewill
Do you understand what omnipotent means? God is the one who MAKES the rules of reality, he DEFINES all of logic to whatever he wishes

But somehow he can’t make a perfect world

If an evil guy is about to kill somebody

Does this mean that you’re not supposed to stop him?

>i don't know therefore he may or may not exist
That's the "open minded" position? KEK

it is man that made himself imperfect

God literally made a tree that makes you imperfect and then punished billions of innocent humans for something 2 people did

He’s evil

He never made them do anything, they exercised their free will and paid the price for it.

Suffering is not pointless. When you are trying to build muscle you break them so they can grow stronger. Same goes emotionally and spiritually. Do your muscles cry out to stop during an intense workout? Do u stop or keep punishing them...does that mean u hate u r muscles?

read

Because an all-loving god probably doesn't exist.

>Suffering is not pointless.

What was the point of the suffering of Dean Corll's many victims?

Seemed pretty pointless for them to be raped, tortured, and slaughtered.

regardless of whether god exists or not; it's to create MEANING. So utilise the creative force and be the change you wish to see in the world.

A world without rape, torture, and slaughter would be unironically a lot more boring.
If the world were perfect it would be horrifying.

the ego looooves drama...

Suffering is the price of Knowledge

Does this mean that God loves those who are bored more than those who are tortured and raped?

That makes no sense you utter retard. God has the ability to create evil that defiles, but chooses not to. Just because he doesn't do something doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to.

So heaven is hell?

Found the psychopath.

No suffering is pointless. Often it is an opportunity to learn, to become stronger and better.

A broken heart, a hungry stomach and empty pockets are some of the world's best teachers.

I wouldn't trade my suffering for anything. It's helped me not only be better, but appreciate the good much more.

I would note I am a non-secular Atheist, but that it's a very good argument at all against their existence.

As long as humans themselves create so much suffering towards each other it's pretty pointless to whine about the 400 people who die in an earthquake or tornado every now and then.

God is dead.

see

we as people can learn from the suffering of others
there really is a bright side to all the bullshit we experience, but are you gonna accept that?
Maybe when you turn 18 but until then, no

what is the bright side to the suffering of Dean Corll's victims?

So God loves us, the ones who learn from the suffering of others, than those who suffer in the first place?

Or did God simply not love the victims of Dean Corll?

suffering is part of life.
The love of god are his rules he gave you.
You still have to live your life yourself.

And besides illness and old age near to all suffering is caused by humans to other humans or even more often humans to themselves (nearly all because it excludes natural disasters)

>godfags getting btfo

suffering has been going on since the dawn of humanity and you wanna pinpoint one event?
suffering is known to us like cold is to ice, yet even though you're not personally experiencing the worst of it, you're still able to complain about shit that's not happening to you as proof that there's no love? does the lion complain about having no house, or the turtle about having no legs to run with? Using the tragedies that others have gone through as leverage for argument is the most sadistic thing you can do, yet you wanna know if an entity that you havent seen or heard is concerned?
I stand by the fact that suffering is just a part of the process and I personally will bounce back from all forms of loss or pain i may experience. If you don't see that as useful, then really is there any way you can understand?
I dont think so

1: God's good and just.
2: A good god wouldn't cause unjust suffering.
3: God caused everything and thus caused all suffering.
C: There is suffering in the world becuase God punishes the unjust, if he didn't he wouldn't be a good god.

>Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

you havent answered

I am a different user (the one posted this: )

That's human induced suffering. A so called wrong doer did to others.

To think that god does take responsibility from an individual is pretty wrong since god puts responsibility on the individual.

Suffering is a consequence of sin. If Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and committed original sin, they were kicked out of the garden as punishment.

We are mortal, and we make mistakes, it's what makes us human, defining absolute morality, specifically what is invariably considered immoral, and consequences thereof, are things considered divine.

This is why the Bible outlines what sin is, how to endure suffering, and seek redemption.

We have this same basic thread almost every day. You're not going to find any great insight here.

Some level of suffering can be overall beneficial but there is a level of suffering that can break anyone.

>I stand by the fact that suffering is just a part of the process and I personally will bounce back from all forms of loss or pain.

There is a level of torture that no one can bounce back from. If you can't think of a situation that could break you then you lack imagination.

The Christian answer: so that people repent and come to Jesus. Who cares about 80 years of suffering if you will get life eternal?

The rational answer: suffering is not pointless but is the natural mechanism that guides individuals away from a lifestyle that doesn't work in the long run (like war, extreme sports, depression from cocooning etc., obesity) and thus serves the function of helping us find suitable ways of survival.

There are people in this world who have bake biscuits out of dirt and don't have access to clean drinking water who fight to survive everyday, humans are more resilient than we are fragile.

>If you can't think of a situation that could break you then you lack imagination.

Glorifying psychopathy is a self-destructive mindset, and dreaming up an unbearable situation isn't suffering.

>The Christian answer
>The rational answer

Then what prevents hedonism in the rational mindset?

>Just because he doesn't do something doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to.

No, it just means he isn't benevolent.

How is "glorifying psychopathy"? If I tied you to a chair and broke your fingers until you told me the password to your computer (which I could check within seconds), how long would you last?

If anything you're the psychopath. You scold others for their lack of herculean willpower to resist pain while denying the fact you are also flawed. You are likely even less able to tolerate pain than average since you are so stupid and neurotic.

I never said I wasn't flawed. Alright, let's say it's not glorifying psychopathy to feign an edgy lack of empathy and inhibition to substitute for any legitimate means of intimidation, in that case, do you really think what you're doing comes across an anything less than an empty threat anyway? I don't know what suffering you go through man. What I do know is thinking up torture methods and threatening people doesn't help anyone, and that there are people who suffer twice as much as both of us put together out there who get by on nothing but faith and a sense of hope every day.

God gave us freewill and suffering is a consequence of that. Would you rather have no freewill or soul, i.e like an animal, or suffering?

How?

>Why would an all-loving God allow pointless suffering?

>you should open your mind and embrace glorious agnosticism.

It's better than picking a side an refusing to find out for yourself. Why make a selected stance on something there is no objective way to prove?

I don't really understand why a perfect God would even create anything. I mean isn't creating something reducing the perfection of existence?

God's essence is infinite and immutable.
All of the laws of physical nature and existence follow from the essence of God, though in a mediate sense.
Therefore this physical existence is the most perfect it could be, and things could not be otherwise than they are.

In other words, God didn't make the world for your whiny bitch ass. Stop crying

>Therefore this physical existence is the most perfect it could be, and things could not be otherwise than they are.

t. Demiurge

Don't criticise my universe no one could have a better job waaa!

>Don't criticise my universe no one could have a better job waaa!
If you admit that God is infinite perfection, it follows necessarily that the universe could not exist in any other mode.

Just so you know I wasn't threatening you in 4232440 the author of 4233079 is different

could have done a better job*

>live a perfect life, help others, donate to charity, never do anything wrong to anyone, always smiling
>live on the coast
>earthquake happens a few thousand miles away and resulting tsunami kills your children and wife

>it's all part of god's plan all suffering is human made XD XD

For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent god, how do they explain why this force would allow earthly beings to suffer so much? I've heard karma used as an explanation, but I am very doubtful that the worst possible physical pain would be something that person or deserved. In a most extreme example, take the shootings and stabbings that occurred at churches the last few years. How might others who believe in the same god explain why that god would allow such things to happen, if it could have been prevented by divine intervention. If god is really all knowing and all powerful, then god is a sadist, or at least comparable to watching people drown when you could throw them a floatie.

I decline to call myself an atheist, since I can say I believe in god by refusing to try to define exactly what god is, and can describe god as the forces of nature that lead to the formation of the universe, to earth, to life on earth, to people and everything else. Its like a guiding principle you might call utilitarianism, goodness, or love, the forces of nature that drive all things. But whatever that is, it lacks conscious awareness of individual life forms at the forefront. Many say they experienced miracles, or see signs from the divine. This is understandable, but being a lottery ticket buyer, and realizing how unlikely it is to win a pick 6 jackpot, and that I can't even picture what just one million of something looks like because the quantity is so massive, the possibility of the weirdest, uncanny, miraculous things happening is far more likely to happen, and all by random chance, serendipity.

>God is treating you as his children
God is an abusive father, no wonder it's used as an excuse by abusive parents
>"Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace"
Reality says that's wrong though, abusive parenting creates fear and depression and low self-esteem that precludes any success in life in those who are too weak to fight back
and conflict, rejection and rebellion in those who are strong enough to fight back

No wonder why people say Lucifer was the real good guy, he was

>The rational answer: suffering is not pointless but is the natural mechanism that guides individuals away from a lifestyle that doesn't work in the long run

Explain why different lifestyles work for different individuals then. Men like to parrot that all women have children, yet a substantial portion of women lives life without ever having children or husbands and without regretting it. What gives? Different people have different needs you retard.

So God doesn't love the people who live within 10 miles of the total area of Tornado Alley?

Or does God actually HATE those people?

>He's either isn't all powerful, is a cunt, or doesn't exist
God isn't some being independent of or above you, that's a conceptual tool used for control. I think the hardest thing for people to understand is that it's not GOD who allows suffering, but us

I was hoping someone would post something along these lines

God =/= creator

God =/= creator

>Responds to a Gnostic post about the Demiurge
>While supposing that God is the creator
Your entire premise is wrong

Define God such that he lacks the power to be the creator

no suffering is pointless, otherwise it wouldn't exist. in contrast pleasure can be very pointless
there are no gods watching your every move, you are alone until you make connections. if deities exist they only care about the motion of things rather than actions.

God as a life force that binds all living beings together; God created the "creator of the universe", but this creator has freewill as well and is an asshole. That's the basic gestalt of the Gnostic viewpoint who refer to that entity as the Demiurge. Your response to that user just highlights your lack of understanding his post in the first place

Explain babies with cancer.

Shitty genes

Ah, so God willingly created humans who would live life of pure pain?

Why?

Been wondering the same myself and posted this last year

desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/40863529/#40863529

Why are these two posts together? One is talking about Gnosticism and the other about the nature of God.
>so God willingly created humans who would live life of pure pain?
Is God some kind of despot in your mind? Some kind of actual metaphysical being? Here's a hint: nature created man, his woes, and his whims. The "essence of God" is that which allows humans to operate on a societal scale to achieve things in spite of the natural condition. It can be said then that God is consciousness itself, that which permeates human societies and operates on a memetic scale. Stop arguing in an Abrahamic framework

>define pointless

>Stop arguing in an Abrahamic framework
>stop arguing in what your religion says!

hmmmm

>pointless