Was there ever even a remote chance that Hitler could've succesfully invaded the USSR?

Define succeed. The German armies could eventually achieve the goal of pushing the soviets beyond the urals if Germany had only been at war with the Soviets and the latter were not receiving foreign assistance in various ways. The problem though is that the Nazis were retarded and had to start a war with multiple states at once from the get go. If Hitler had been more willing to listen to his generals in 1943 there would have been no major soviet victories in the summer months, but the problem there is even if Germany goes into 1944 with a stronger army then it had historically, that stronger military cannot fight off Americans and British to the west and south and the Soviets to the east simultaneously. Especially not with most of the German airforce either destroyed or occupied fighting off allied airforces.

Without Western Europe, Norway, and Greece subjugated, Germany has to leave many more men behind to watch its back before it can attempt a Barbarossa. It probably never dares to.

What exactly was Hitler's goal in invading the USSR?

I've heard various ideas, but never a true concrete answer.
I see you're implying his only goal was to push commies past Urals, but i'm talking full annexation.

I always assumed that was his primary goal, as a big part of Generalplan Ost was to force millions of Slavs to go work in Siberia?

The annexation of Russian Europe, with maybe a few client states thrown in

The IRL German Army could've maybe done it if they had access to more oil, tanks, and trucks, but its a maybe because we don't know how well the Soviets could stay together if Moscow got captured.

>less racial autism
The racial autism is what Germany used as justification to place conquered European territory under military administration and have them plunder their resources for the war machine. The undesirables placed into camps were used as slave labor for the war machine.
>allies form coalition with him against Soviets
The USSR would most definitely have mobilized earlier in this timeline, so the extra industry is weighed by the Soviets having a significantly larger defensive line, but they are also damaged by the complete ease the allies would have in a naval blockade potentially occupying important coastal cities, massively increasing the size of the area the USSR would need to defend.
>japan and china invade USSR
China was in absolutely no position to invade the USSR, the position of the Nationalists as hegemon over the warlords was very weak and the industrial capabilities were too low, not even touching upon difficulties with military doctrine (american volunteers that helped make the Chinese motorized division had a LOT to say about how difficult working with the rest of the armed forces could be and training) and supplies. The Japanese did try messing with the USSR in reality but lost very badly. In an alternate scenario where their armed forces are not in a competition to see who can overextend their supply lines the most and they are focusing entirely on the USSR, they would tie up a large portion of resources that were used to relieve Moscow in real life, and may overwhelm the back line of the USSR through sheer number difference, but it is unlikely they could 'push through the back' without a lot of effort being placed into subverting the USSR's transportation infrastructure (and the USSR could just destroy it themselves if necessary).

No
His best hope would've been to stop at the Dnieper, maybe Don

>hitler could have never defeated russia
It was completely feasible, the Germans would only need the most basic level of competence to cripple the USSR as a power and secure the Eastern border. If a WW1 officer had risen to fuhrer instead of a demagogue this would have been the likely outcome, they would have anticipated American economic aid and realized the war would take years, prepared winter clothing, focused on logistics, ensured vehicle designs were suited to the cold and mud and so forth. This would all be elementary to them despite the heavy handed nature of dictatorship, it would give the German army the push needed to encircle Moscow as well as Stalingrad and Leningrad. Meme war games in Sandhurst and West Point prove this at least. There is disagreement among historians whether a few weeks of good weather would all them to encircle Moscow, a minor loss of war industry but a significant propaganda loss and a loss of communication and supply. The possibility is there anyway.

It is unlikely they would push all the way to the Urals but the eastern front would not have been such a huge expense of war resources, resources the Germans could invest in the "Atlantic wall". The D day landings would have to be laid off. The outcome of the war would be very different,

It seems too good to be true, Hitler's incompetence lost the war. It is easier to understand if you realize Hitler picked generals who would not criticize him and his quack doctor was giving him amphetamines. He was on meth basically. Humans are not efficient machines, they are flawed impulsive creatures.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if I factor in the fact that humans are flawed and impulsive and imagine the German leadership was not I am giving them an unfair advantage, I don't know. Whatever.

>an attack before the war
Kys retard tankie.

Absolute autarchy. One time Germany annex Russia, a naval blockade against Germany is useless. Basically world superiority.

that would require operational capabilities that WWII countries didn't fucking have, though. You're talking a targeted military operation against numerous commanding individuals (Stalin and his inner party) independent of broader military action throughout Russia. The German military was by no means capable of chasing Stalin accross the country itself, so you'd need either a covert assassination on an extreme scale or a direct aerial strike/insertion, not feasible in WWII.

The Nazis had to keep the US out of the war, in order to have any chance to win. Declaring war on the USA was their downfall.

>Was there ever even a remote chance that Hitler could've succesfully invaded the USSR?
Sure.

This basically. I prefer the non-straight line because it's aesthetic af and realistic to the actual geography.

>As well as somehow convincing Western Allies (USA, France, and UK) to somehow side with him in the invasion.
It probably wouldn't be that hard. Hitler was a skilled orator and Nazi Germany was already viewed as a defence against communism.

did they actually think this was achievable?

The population of Germany was massive compared to a lot of countries at the time. It was overcrowded and they needed room for people to live and resources to fuel their industry. This was the point of Lebensraum which translates to "Living Space". They believed that they would do what the US did and take over all that land and become a superpower. They viewed Slavs as as backward and weak as the native Americans.

Annexation of the steppe for Lebensraum and resources
Forced labor, deportation, or execution for undesirables
Germanisation of the rest (near the end of the war, if he somehow won it seems like most Slavs excluding Poles and Russians were deemed salvageable)

>They viewed Slavs as as backward and weak as the native Americans.
The USSR produced 17.6% of the world's manufacturing output in 1938 compared to Germany's 13.2%. Surely they could have observed the massive industrialization going on in Stalin's Russia, rubbed two brain cells together, and realize they might be facing a tougher enemy than first thought?

They though Russia was still as bad as 1918 (or even worse cuz of civil war and gommunism). This is Hitler we are talking about after all, he wasn't exactly a good grand strategist...

I didn't read your OP but the answer is no. Germany lost the war on June 22 1941. Stop with these shitty threads.

Germany was not overcrowded and they didn't need room for people to live. There's a reason why the Nazis had to scrouge eastern Europe for "Germans" they could resettle in Poland.

They very much were.
>As the Nazi leadership never tired of informing the population and the wider world, the fundamental problem of German politics was the shortage of land. Germany was far more densely populated than France and lacked the colonial outlets available to Britain. For readers today, living as we do in post-agricultural societies, this rhetoric has a somewhat empty ring. It is hard to believe that by Lebensraum Hitler really meant mere land, rather than something more valuable such as industrial raw materials. But in making such assumptions we are in danger of ignoring the fact that 'land shortage' was in the 1930s still one of the chief afflictions of German society. When compared to the richer Western European countries, let alone the fabulously well-endowed North American settlements, Germany was indeed land-poor. Compared to Britain, Germany had more land to devote to agriculture, but its rural population was disproportionately larger. Compared to France, the German agricultural population was smaller in relative terms, but France was far more favorably endowed with land. Though comparing itself in terms of per capita GDP to countries like Britain and the United States, in terms of land per farmer Germany had far more in common with backward 'peasant nations' such as Ireland, Bulgaria or Romania. Amongst the large Western European states only Italy had a higher ratio of rural population to land endowment.
Wages of Destruction, pp. 175-176

>They very much were.
All Tooze is saying is that Germany was not as well off as France, Britain, or the USA. The German people did not see themselves as overcrowded, and would not have wanted to leave Germany to some backwoods Slavistan to be a dirt farmer, and they still don't despite Germany being far denser today.

He pretty clearly states that land shortages were a primary concern for Germany in the 1930s. Lebensraum was a central and persistent element of propaganda.
>and would not have wanted to leave Germany to some backwoods Slavistan to be a dirt farmer
They were planning on massive investment on the East and an economy balanced between agriculture, industry, and crafts. To quote Tooze again:
>The Generalplan Ost envisioned, not a return to the past, but a new and expansive phase of German economic development. It belongs in the company of the German Labour Front's enormous housing programme announced in the autumn of 1940 and the pre-war Volkswagen scheme. In the East, a new abundance of natural resources would be combined with German know-how and capital to enable a dramatic increase in the standard of living. The most succinct expression of this ambition was population density. In the initial planning for Poland this was set at 100 people per square kilometre. Once the territory of the Soviet Union was incorporated into the Generalplan Ost, the target was reduced to 80 people per square kilometre. This target was significantly lower than the density in Germany in 1939, at 133 people per square kilometre. But it was higher than that prevailing in France at the time. Nor were the agronomists working for the SS under any illusion about the standard of living that could be expected in a society consisting entirely of peasant farmers. Instead, Meyer's ideal was the population structure of Bavaria or Hanover, which in the 1930s sustained an uncluttered balance of agriculture, industry and services. The Generalplan projected an agricultural share in the workforce of no more than one-third, with a similar share employed in industry, crafts, commerce and public services. Placed in relation to the long-run development of the German occupational structure, the SS vision involved turning the clock back not to the Middle Ages, but to 1900.

Stormnigger shit aside, this actually seems like it would have turned out really cool. After the genocide of course perhaps Russia would have been more developed and better off because of this.. Seems like an interesting alternate world ya know?

If Germany was able to remain economically and politically stable after the war, then yes.

I mean I wish he was successful, in defeating the Bolshevik Russians. If he won against the Bolsheviks the world will be a Utopia under Hitler. no blacks Jews homosexuals or liberals affecting the white world. it would be a great white Utopia.

Germany didn’t have a chance. The only reason it took 4 years for Russia to curbstomp the Germans is because stalin was a tactical retard, who retreated for no reason and fucked up Kiev royally.

Don’t fall for the brainlet caucuses meme, either. IF the Germans managed to make it the extra 800km past Stalingrad, the Russians would have sabotaged the fields which would be unusable for years. Not only that, but Germany would need to transport the oil back to Germany to be refined, so good luck building that pipeline thats magically immune to partisan sabotage.

The “peace with Britain” meme is even worse. The Nazis broke pretty much every single treaty they ever signed; from the naval agreements to the partition of Czechoslovakia, to the invasion of Poland and even the fucking Molotov Ribbentrop. Britain would never sign a peace with Germany as the Germans were more twofaced than the Jews they tried to exterminate.

Fuck, the German army was still horse based for the war. Canada produced more trucks than the entirety of the Axis combined, ffs. How do you expect to conquer Russia without a motorized army?

Oil can be transported via train, and refineries can be built
How would the Red Army conduct its counteroffensives without oil and industry from the Caucasus and without the agricultural output of the Ukraine?

Why are you pinning this all on Hitler? Everyone in the German high command was equally retarded when it came to Barbarossa.

The soviets had additional sources of oil: Iran, importing from the allies, and significant reserves. The point of what I am saying is that simply conquering Baku was not a panacea for the German army: horses don’t run on oil, and the effects of capturing Baku wouldn’t be felt for years. This is all irrelevant since the Germans couldn’t take Stalingrad, and never came close to capturing Moscow or Leningrad, the other two “must-haves” for the Reich to begin approaching victory.

the nazis had no choice but to invade. The only way to sustain their government was conquest and the spoils of war, and USSR was the only target left. Of course any strategy is going to be retarded, it was an impossible task. If the Russians were competent, they’d have been in Berlin by ‘43, they were the retarded ones if anyone.

>winter equipment would have helped
Stop this stupid fucking meme. The Germans HAD winter equipment.

>also not using resources for concentration camps.
The camps took up a fraction of German resources. The Nazis were almost completely reliant on the slave labor provided by these camps as well.

>Lastly and most importantly, if Hitler had convinced Japan to invade the USSR at the same time the USSR would be fucked
Yeah, have fun invading fucking Siberia. By the time they reached anywhere of importance the Germans would've been beaten.

Stalin only increased defense in the east during the war.

the japs got thoroughly owned by the russians when they fought before the war; the Russians would have kicked them out of manchuria and korea before the Americans started island hopping. The Jap army was in a stalemate against the RoC which was also fighting a civil war, and their best divisions were doing that fighting. The soviets had plenty of manpower and divisions in the far east anyways, it would not have hindered the war vs germany to fight the japs at the same time

I think the reason they failed is actually because of the failure of Operation . When the greeks lost Athens, King george retreated with the british to Crete. Where they made their last stand... Hitler had to extinguish any thread on the north. So he postponed Operation which was invading Moscow. This was supposed to be easy for Hitler. But the Cretans are known to not be very kind on invaders. So they fought the invaders with courage taking out a large portion of the invaders but also losing a lot of their own people . Many villages were burned to their ground or their people were executed on the spot. In the end Hitler got Crete but it took a lot longer than expected. So when Hitler got on again with > it was too late... The cretans had won enough time for the Russian winter with demolished his army.

Marita did not delay Barbarossa in the slightest. There is no rule that an army can fight or plan only one operation at once, and Germans knew this.

It actually did... A lot of troops were used on Crete. The Cretans are people familiar with guns. And as i mentioned before they are not very kind with invaders... Airborne troops were used on the invasion of maleme and other villages... The Cretans didnt have anyone watching over them or giving them orders. They fought for their families and only.

Not him, but the Germans committed 2 divisions and a quartet of independent glider battalions to Crete. They committed 122 divisions to Barbarossa, none of which included the 7th Flieger or the 5th gebirgs.

Marita did not delay Barbarossa because the spring thaw came late in 1941. If Barbarossa went ahead on 15 May as scheduled the return and refitting of units that went on Marita may have caused a delay of a couple of weeks, but as it was, Barbarossa could not have started until mid June anyway. Whether Cretans liked people giving them orders or not had nothing to do with it.
Let me add in passing that Cretans despite not liking people ordering them never had a taste of real independence.

Crete was under the ottomans dominion for almost 265 years before their rebelion in 1866... They then united with greece in 1913... They know well what slavery is as well as independence. Which they have fought hard to gain

>The Germans HAD winter equipment
They did, it's just that their pitiful logistical situation meant that it was hard to distribute to troops when it was needed the most.