Would achieving a post-scarcity economy even be good for humanity?

good point, thanks for correcting me.
I still don't see how forcing people to do completely unnecessary work would be a viable solution to this problem like is suggesting.
>carry this bag of wet salt to that wall over there and back again 40 times. Then you will get your food ration for the week

>Lack of conflict = stagnation
By the time we have a post-scarcity society the robots will be able to do all the advancing and thinking for us.

Thats a multi-layered fantasy. Fantasy of the limits of technology, the limits of resources, the limits of human capacity to co-exist, of animal life to be preserved.

I think it's more like
> Lack of conflict/burden --> mass depression --> stagnation (among other things)

You get diminishing returns on owning things. For example, you could take two times as much food, but do you really want to eat that much? Taking extra food isn't even worth anything because no one wants to buy it.

Post scarcity doesn't mean infinite resources. It means you've reached the point to supply goods to people were distribution isn't based on scarcity.

We would need to replace our money system and create a whole new power system not based primarily on the stock market.

Post-scarcity would pretty much kill the chances of any revolution happening and lead to the 10000 year neoliberal reich.

>For example, you could take two times as much food, but do you really want to eat that much?
If it's canned food that won't go bad I would want to horde as much as possible for a SHTF situation. Same with guns and ammo, fuel, ammonia and bleach, etc.

>google "second wave automation revolution"
>nothing
All you prophets of utopia BEGONE.
Nobody involved in the machine hells believes your crap.

Perhaps it works with better with a guaranteed standard of living. You get a set amount of currency each month that should be more than enough to meet your Maslows hierarchy but not enough that it will cause undue pressure in society. Unfortunately even in a utopic society, there will be greedy, wasteful people.

Muh lobsters

In an actual SHTF scenario your personal stockpile would be useless. The only thing that would benefit you would be your skills and your ability to travel, network and mobilize among the factions that would develop.

Anyone that bunkered down instead of joining a faction would be starved or eradicated within months.

People like you would be eliminated as part of the population control measures, because you are counting on the system collapsing and have in interest in maintaining the status quo.

If you blow your entire months cash on lobsters, what are you gonna feed your falcon? You'll have no choice but to labour in the popcorn mines.

That's what post scarcity economy is though.
>Post-scarcity is an economic theory in which most goods can be produced in great abundance with minimal human labor needed, so that they become available to all very cheaply or even freely.[1][2] Post-scarcity is not generally taken to mean that scarcity has been eliminated for all consumer goods and services; instead, it is often taken to mean that all people can easily have their basic survival needs met along with some significant proportion of their desires for goods and services,[3] with writers on the topic often emphasizing that certain commodities are likely to remain scarce in a post-scarcity society.[4][5][6][7]

You're assuming a SHTF scenario is permanent. If you can last 6 months on saved rations, you might see law enforcement restore order.

Exactly. But some people seem to think post-scarcity will allow them to have luxuries and waste them and leave all the faucets in the house running.

If we're talking about all-out war between countries and civil war within countries, the only survival tactic would be take what you can and join up with one of the armies that would develop.

Including raiding that guy with a stash of canned food and seizing farms and canned food factories, because no one if going to respect your "property rights" in a war like that.

Ok, but are you bugging-out on day 1? Unless the immediate area is a warzone you'll need time to gather information about who are the players, which one will probably win, ect. Unless your house is literally on fire it's probably better to stay out in the short-future.

They'll respect the hollowpoints I've been hoarding.

There wouldn't be much time to stay in your house and very quickly you'd become a target. Its probably only worth stashing a few weeks worth of food, guns and ammo and rations that will fit in your truck when its time to flee.

>modern neo-liberal democracy
>executing random people for not fitting into the system
Not likely to happen user.

In a SHTF scenario, do you really think the roads will be usable?

Major cities will be the first places eradicated by the nuclear bombs. The ones that survive will be immediately evacuated. Most highways will be jammed, sure, but there will be places to go, military bases, government buildings, etc and you'll need gas, supplies and transport to get there. Thats why I said truck because most likely there will be some off-road navigation as well. Eventually you'll link up with whatever brigade is controlling your region, assuming martial law's been enacted and every man, woman and child becomes a conscript. The government will dissolve and reform into factions based on military might. We'll all be subject to the people with the most power and ability to control resources.

>>robbing someone who has guns, knows how to use them and has no problem killing people who try to rob him.
Wow, you're fucking stupid.

We're talking about war here buddy. No lone holdouts will survive, you'll surrender your food and ammunition to the raiding party or you'll go down with the ship.

The raiding party will be either driven off with casualties or not bother in the first place because easier targets exist.

Again, we're talking about war, easier targets will picked off and their resources pilfered, more difficult targets will be sniped, bombed out or simply overwhelmed in a matter of weeks, they will also be higher value targets due to their stockpiles of resources and ammunition.

Yeah, they want those too.

>what is tank

>brings up all out war
>suddenly becomes bandits
ok good for you

also the bandits murder you in your sleep

>Would achieving a post-scarcity economy even be good for humanity?
First off, a post-scarcity economy is unattainable because populations expand based off of available resources, so there will always be scarcity.

Second off, humans are incapable of handling of Utopia because of our biological risk reward system. Happiness is a painkiller so if you can't suffer (because of all of your basic needs being met) then you can't experience pleasure. If a utopian society would occur, humans would burn it down so they have a fire to put out.

>I for one, welcome our new machine overlords

>bandits have tanks to steal your 9mm ammo and cans of cranberry sauce

And they will get them, just not at the velocity they were hoping for.

>He thinks big armies are going to each home as a priority
>He thinks the breakdown of society won't lead to looting far sooner
>He thinks the bandits are ninjas

Most people in the western world live their lives with relatively little suffering, and very few become the Joker.

>First off, a post-scarcity economy is unattainable because populations expand based off of available resources, so there will always be scarcity.
Say that to a one child policy. We can successfully depopulate the world to less than 10 million humans and maintain a stable population from there.

>Second off, humans are incapable of handling of Utopia because of our biological risk reward system. Happiness is a painkiller so if you can't suffer (because of all of your basic needs being met) then you can't experience pleasure. If a utopian society would occur, humans would burn it down so they have a fire to put out.
Holy shit, 99% of americans have no emotions because their basic needs are met.

t. Gaahl

I told you, they wouldn't be bandits, they would be an organized military raiding party responsible for recruiting or murdering everyone in the region. When the resources run low everyone who hasn't already joined up with the military controllers of their region will have to surrender their shit or die for it.

But liberalism thrives off scarcity. Why do we still use oil when we could have unlimited free nuclear power?

Looting has been a part of war for millennia. And yes, if shit really hits the fan, people will become desperate and a gang of roving bandits will raid your shit in the middle of the night and you will be outnumbered. The entire reason you've hoarded is so you don't become desperate. That's an implicit acknowledgement that others will be desperate. Maybe you kill 10 guys before you go down. You're still going down as long as you remain a target with best risk-reward ratio, and you hoarded a lot of reward.

So traditionalism?

No, a giant lottery to appoint an absolute monarch. In order to maintain power and not be killed, he will institute a system of lotteries to distribute resources and titles to others, enough that people would rather take chances with the lottery rather than usurp the monarch. These lesser lords will then hold lotteries of their own as they won't be able to seek protection from the monarch. We will generate a completely arbitrary hierarchy based on lotteries which offer just enough that the masses would rather play the lottery than rebel.

Rebel to enforce what, exactly? The capitalism that reached the ceiling and stopped providing incentive?

Rebel for more gibs and being on top of the totem pole.

You weren't planning on giving stuff to people just because they exist were you? And you're certainly not giving them anything to work.

>post-scarcity

Nice meme kid.

>Holy shit, 99% of americans

That's been my experience with them desu
They're either completely aphatic or completely psychotic.

Completely doable once you reach the k2 stage.

You can take atoms and turn them into whatever you want, and then re-use them in whatever other thing you want, is just a matter of getting machines precise enough.

And even if you don't, there are so many raw resources in the universe that once you attain fusion power you're basically set for life.

>You weren't planning on giving stuff to people just because they exist were you?
What's wrong with that? A post-scarcity society effectively has infinite resources to distribute, so there's nothing wrong with free gibs.

Only until the aliens show up.

>the only survival tactic would be take what you can and join up with one of the armies that would develop.
True, but if you join that army with a shitload of useful supplies then you not only earn favor with them but you also increase the chance of your side winning in future battles.

>OP wants to discuss post-scarcity society
>immediate pivot to post-apocalyptic scenarios and global war

They seem okay on Star Trek