Why is SS the most memed program on Veeky Forums instead of Nsun's 5/3/1/?

>>Why a program developed by a renowned and respected coach

>renowned and respected coach
>Rippetoe
Pick one lmfao. Renowned where? On Veeky Forums?

>suboptimal meme-tier
Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 is "suboptimal" or "meme tier"? Lol okay

The percentages are reasonable as fuck. You can't closegrip bench 60% of your normal bench press training max? You can't sumo pull 70% of your deadlift training max?

can n-suns put 60 lbs on your squat in 2 weeks?

it can give you a more well-rounded total, not having a poverty bench and shit dl

@42452811
>Renowned where? On Veeky Forums?
Pathetic.
>nSuns is Jim Wendler
Even more pathetic.

No one fucking knows who rippleltoad is besides on Veeky Forums (where the vast majority of users cannot bench 2plate according to polls).

He's literally never trained anyone who has been a successful powerlifter, he only trains middleaged moms and dyel teenagers on how to perform "the press" and "the low bar squat".

uh try again sweetie. starting strength is a well-known program in the world where you have to put up weight on the quick. n-suns, however, is not

These are great points as to why we should trust nsuns because he has trained many power lifters and posts on a board where thale average user benches 3 plates! R-right?

>Doing sumo at 70% for sets of 3,5,7,4,6,8 after 9 sets of squats
>Doing front squats at 55% your back squat for sets of 3,5,7,4,6,8 after 9 sets of deadlifts

If you think this is reasonable you're lifting light weight.
>t. ran Nsuns for 6 months

Basically what i do too

I made zero fucking progress on that routine. Just stalled as soon as I got to my max

because saying
>SS
reminds us of happier times

>Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 is "suboptimal" or "meme tier"? Lol okay

If you're implying Nsuns being very very loosely based off 5/3/1 actually makes it 5/3/1 you're an idiot. Not to mention Wendler's personal pet peeve is people making up weird variations of 5/3/1 and calling it 5/3/1.

Turn down the percentage then retard

He literally says "This is what I did and worked for me, if you want you can reduce/increase the percentages"

Doesn't sound very beginner friendly if you need to edit the percentages.

You shouldn't "trust" anything, you should try it and see how it works for you or just analyze the program.

Is beginner synonymous with "10 year old" in your mind? If the percentage is too high then change it, besides by the time you have to modify it you'll be an intermediate already anyway.

Or are you suggesting beginners cannot squat 225 lbs and then 3 DAYS LATER front squat 125 lbs?

>>Doing front squats at 55% your back squat for sets of 3,5,7,4,6,8 after 9 sets of deadlifts

This is beyond easy, unless you're suggesting that your lower back is so fatigued it cannot handle 55% of your back squat after some deadlifts. Maybe if you got to a 5-600lb deadlift it could be a little challenging.

Running it right now and I'm making nice gains

I know people in here all all "lol reddit" but the fit-related subreddits removed SS from the recommended beginner program list some time ago, recommending phrak's and nsun's instead, for example

ss + gomad was literally a meme gone too far

because it doesn't fucking matter what you do as a beginner. The philosophy behind Starting Strength is basically that you can do whatever the fuck you want and you will get stronger if you eat a lot and are consistent.

This factual mantra of SS is what makes it better than every other beginner routine. Why complicate things? What the fuck is an AMRAP, who is percentages, and why should any beginner go through the trouble of listening to some random kunt on Reddit?

It's not that SS as a training program is somehow "more optimized" than other programs. The truth of the matter is that beginners will increase weight on every lift every workout for months and all they have to do is lift 3x5 three days a week. You don't need this convoluted pseudo-science anecdotal Reddit bull shit.

But yes, both programs will work for beginners, and beginners experience any vastly different effects across programs.

>beginners experience any vastly different effects across programs.

beginners won't* experience any vastly different effects

>The philosophy behind Starting Strength is basically that you can do whatever the fuck you want and you will get stronger if you eat a lot and are consistent.

Wat

the philosphy is "You must do MY program, if you dare even add an accessory i did not authorize you to, then you are not doing MY program, and if you not doing MY program you might as well hang yourself right NOW". That's why you get all the fucking timid SS cucks asking "p-please master may i please do 3x8 bicep curls every two weeks?"

>Why complicate things?

Why not complicate them? This isn't a program for prepubescent children who can only count to 5 and remember 4 exercises.

>What the fuck is an AMRAP
As many reps as possible.

>who is percentages
Percentages of your training maxes

>why should any beginner go through the trouble of listening to some random kunt on Reddit?
Why should they go through the trouble of listening to a fatfuck texan?

>You don't need this convoluted pseudo-science anecdotal Reddit bull shit.
It's ridiculous how you believe that "Reddit" invented doing more than 4 exercises.

And that "minimalist 3x5 3 days a week programs" are invented by Veeky Forums and Moot as words of God.

This user is right. A novice can do whatever the fuck in the gym and if he does it consistently enough and eats enough he will make gains. Now the only question is how to make that novice stage as optimal as possible and Starting Strength does exactly that, for strength gains that is.

You're actually fucking retarded and this other user is probably going to argue your dumb shit but i'm not going to bother, pic related.

Rippetoe encourages adding accessories, particularly chin ups and dips. He spazzes out about "you're not doing the program" when retards go on his forum and say "I haven't been able to increase weight for 3 weeks and keep lifting the same thing???"

>Why not complicate them?
Because it is unnecessary, as I said.

>Why should they go through the trouble of listening to a fatfuck texan?
Because that fatfuck texan has been strength coaching people for decades, written multiple books that complement his routine and familiarize beginners with the movements, and he has gone through the trouble of creating intermediate and advanced continuations of his beginner program. He also has a forum dedicated to the program, along with YouTube videos for form direction.

As I said, though, beginner programs don't matter much within reason. I'm sure nsun's 5/3/1 is a great program, but I would absolutely never recommend it to a beginner because it's needlessly intimidating and complex.

>not doing advanced calculus to determine your reps and sets before each workout

kill yourself

>not training your brain to failure with all your other muscles

>it is intimidating to literally download and read a

I know that you're slow but other anons here already told you that a beginner doesn't have to complicate things to make progress. You do whatever program you want to do, but don't sperg out when others don't want to do the same. Please stop posting. Pic related, you.

you're autistic m8

I'm not even on SS or a beginner anymore. I gave you the answer why we advocate SS and it's very simple: All you need to fucking do as a beginner is lift heavier weights. "Punching the numbers" isn't too difficult, and beginners aren't too lazy, it's just fucking pointless. Eat. Sleep. Lift. Lift heavier. It's that simple. After you've been lifting for 6 months to a year, switch to an intermediate routine, and only then MAYBE worry about number crunching.

>He thinks he'll learn deadlift faster by doing 5 reps once a week instead of doing literally 5x as much reps

excellent b8. it's not like most of beginners gains' aren't so much muscle and strength but literally learning the movement pattern and training your CNS or anything...

in that case I'll start recommending beginners do 25 sets of deadlifts daily, because more is more better, right????

Yeah, people are just...whatever.
I'll probably start with Phrak's after reading up on it, been sitting on my ass for too long

I think your thread started out innocently enough but then you got completely assfucked by everyone in this thread so now you're just baiting for replies.

>if 5 is better than 1 that means you should do 1000

good thing 5 isn't better than 1

The quality of reps matters, surely? I haven't done nSuns, but I have done 5/3/1 BBB, and ur BBB sets almost always turn out pretty fucking ugly. It's fine at that stage when you have the movement ingrained, but is it long term effects to have beginners practicing bad motor patterns?

is there a way i can get started with nsuns without having to pull up a fucking spreadsheet on my phone it really can't handle it

it can make you look like you lift and have well-rounded lift stats

It's quite light though, your form won't breakdown. I really doubt you'll massive form breakdown doing backoff sets of 60% of your training max on compounds.

zero to hero app

what do you mean why complicate things? novices are people new to barbell training, not children or retards. if someone can't operate a simple spreadsheet with instructions on the sheet, they should kill themselves.

you rustled my jimmies enough to post this so here's a
>(you)

>type in bench squat and diddly max every 2 weeks.

takes 5 seconds you utter faggot

Seriously. I mean what kind of fucking explanation is "it's more difficult to use a spreadsheet from the internet rather than remember to do 3x5 of 4 exercises".

Learning form on compounds is more difficult than using machines with pictures on them too. Counting calories is also very difficult, easier to eat whatever you want.

read the first line of my post. You keep ignoring the entire premise of everything I have said: It doesn't fucking matter what you do as a beginner.

If you want to waste time & effort doing an over-complicated program, best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll make great gains, and so will the sikkunts doing SS.

Just personally, I think programs exist solely to make you feel more productive, like you're being more "hardcore" and "efficient" by nerding out over your numbers. This type of shit isn't required of you until you're an advanced lifter. Do it if you want to, but telling other beginners to do it is just wasting their time and scaring them off.

>I think programs exist
I think programs LIKE THIS* exist

fuck me

But it does matter. This is why you would prescribe SS over a brosplit.

Nsun's is not only a lot more funner to actually do but has autoregulation with 1+ and amrap sets, I also don't have any empirical evidence for it but I would argue that doing so many deadlifts (and other lifts) has huge benefits in learning form and building work capacity.