An interesting article IMO. To explain the headline, this author said that there was a small true core to the Dolchstoßlegende (the idea that Germany was betrayed by leftists). This was of course met with outrage by the left and liberal right, but here he explained what he meant.
To summarise: >Ludendorff, who basically was the dictator of Germany at that point, only asked for a short ceasefire >The OHL (Oberste Heeresleitung, the leading military body) was after that speaking about permanent peace and not just a ceasefire, probably because morale was too low to continue fighting >The army probably could've held out a few more months on French and Belgian territory, giving Germany a better position in negotiations >In 1918/1919, people were discussing if this chance was lost due to multiple factors, most of all the far-left campaigns for soldiers to lie down their weapons >Leaflets of these campaigns were spread by the Entente and thus only further strengthened the impression that these defeatist campaigns played a large role >The left-wing parties thought that a republican government would have a stronger position in negotiations, a false assumption >Due to the chaos in Germany, the Entente knew that Germany was in no position to negotiate (when the German delegation asked what terms the allied proposed, French Field Marshall Foch simply replied "there is nothing to negotiate over")
The leftist position on the war is well documented, they promoted revolutionary defeatism, hostility to the military elites and fraternization with enemy soldiers. Where the Nazis went full retard is in suggesting that this was a plot of international Jewry. Also Germany would have lost the war anyway, so the ultimate effect of the communist efforts was probably negligible.
Mason Torres
>>The army probably could've held out a few more months on French and Belgian territory, giving Germany a better position in negotiations This part is wrong. The longer the war continues, the more the German army gets mashed up, the weaker their position becomes. Furthermore, the Entente is going to get ever more enraged over even higher losses. Dragging on the war for another few months makes things worse, not better.
Parker Sullivan
To be fair, all lefties in both sides were doing that.
Evan Howard
This. It also doesnt help their meme considering Germany was the one who shipped a communist revolutionary into an enemy country to do the exact same thing they claimed happened to them.
Brayden Roberts
>for another few months makes things worse, not better. Not to mention you'd basically crush your own propaganda of "Britain is at its knees thanks to our submarine warfare" by letting the German people see Entente troops marching into German towns
Justin Green
>The army probably could've held out a few more months on French and Belgian territory, giving Germany a better position in negotiations
The hindenburg line was already penetrated. More and more manpower was arriving, the population got sick of the situation, as the soldiers on the front.
There's was never a "better position" in 1918. The "Dolchstoßlegende" was given by the military forces just in 1914, in a mix of militarism and autism.
Lincoln Gutierrez
What's their reason for believing the Allies would have preferred to let Germany get off more easily rather than letting some more men die for a total victory?
In the end it would have made things better for Germany and everyone. Germans would have no reason to believe they could still somehow have made it and revisionist ideas may now have prospered as much.
Blake Allen
>Where the Nazis went full retard is in suggesting that this was a plot of international Jewry. Except for the simple fact that leftism and international jewry go hand in hand. Why do we have to pretend that isn't the case? >but not ALL Jews are leftists and not all women love chocolate, but you'd have to be an idiot to ignore the demonstrable preference.
Where Hitler went full retard wasn't singling out the Jews, it was going full ALL JEWS, and even that is unfortunate understandable mistake stemming from the inability of state institutions to deal with personal scale nuance.
Asher Thomas
Can you please stop with this "testing the water" rhetoric ?
Christopher Jones
>Except for the simple fact that leftism and international jewry go hand in hand. Why do we have to pretend that isn't the case? Because Jews occupied a big role in the intellectual life of G*rman culture and for every Jew Lefty you can name, there's probably 10 Jews who were busy dying in the trenches of the Western Front in the name of Willie's autism.
Jonathan Gray
Is that why the USSR armed Arabs for the sole purpose of wiping Israel off the map?
Landon Sanders
the biggest small arms producer in Imperial Germany was Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken owned by the Loewe family that was Jewish, I realy wonder in (((who's))) interest was Germany winning WW1
Jaxon Allen
>Because Jews occupied a big role in the intellectual life of G*rman culture
I'm not just talking about Germany bro, they're everywhere hence the whole "international jewry" thing. The only countries with historical communist movements that you can't easily point out Jews in are Asian ones, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason that seems to be the case is because the only sources are written in foreign languages, and the type of people capable of reading those sources rightfully don't place a high priority on autistically pointing out when someone is Jewish.
To be clear I'm not saying that Jews are behind Maoism, or Pol Pot, or Juche. I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if there were some unimportant low level figures that were tangentially associated with those movements that were Jewish. Simply because many Jews seem to be magnetically drawn to Communism and will travel around the world to take part in it.
Grayson Sanchez
Nowhere did I claim Jews are a hive mind, in fact I went out of my way to do the opposite.
Carter Price
I wonder if Jews in the US weapons production had more interest in China or Korea gaining freedom or US destroying them.
Andrew Bailey
Gee I wonder why a historically persecuted people would be drawn to an ideology that promotes racial equality?
Besides, the behaviour of communist movements in relation to Jews, and Israel in particular, disproves your claim. The PKK, PFLP, and Lebanese Communist Party all fought Israel directly in the Lebanon War. Cuba sent expeditionary forced to support Egypt in the Yom Kippur War. Communist fought apartheid in South Africa which was backed by Israel. The Soviet Union was worried that Zionist sympathies would cause Soviet Jews to betray communism, and so Jews were systematically discriminated against after the 1950s when the USSR started actively supporting the Arab movement. Communists historically worked closely with Ba’athists in Arab countries which were militantly anti-Israel and anti-Jewish. The “communism is Jewish” meme makes absolutely no sense.
Samuel Bennett
>Also Germany would have lost the war anyway, so the ultimate effect of the communist efforts was probably negligible.
This. You really have to keep in mind that at the end of the day, Germany was not gonna win this. They could dig in defensively and hold out until maybe 1919-1920, but the Allies were receiving fresh supplies and 30,000 soldiers a month from America, completely revitalizing the war effort. Germany had a chance, but that chance was gone at this point.
Blake Scott
this "Now it will be a lot easier for this Jewish Zionist to remember his global Kike-Masonic plot"
Jonathan Sanchez
>communism >having anything to do with fucking race I bet you unironically use the term “manarchist”
Lincoln Williams
Communism explicitly rejects racism, something that would obviously appeal to people who were discriminated against because of ethnicity.
Mason Nguyen
The thing is, Jews that are actually religious and care about Judaism as a religion and not just a culture, have always hated communism. But they're not most Jews these days, they haven't been most Jews for at least 2 centuries.
Aaron Flores
fuck, got translation wrong, it should be: "Now it will be a lot easier for this Jewish Zionist to remember his membership in the global Kike-Masonic plot"
Charles Williams
Ok, let's go with the idea that the "stab in the back" was in fact true. Just disregard anything contrary, let's just say that's what actually happened.
Are you telling me that this situation is not preferable to a WW2 total defeat scenario where Germany is raped and pillaged and bombed into ruin? Germany was not going to win, it could merely delay the inevitable. The fact is if the stab in the back is true, it saved the lives of millions of Germans.
Evan Price
Show me where Marx talks about racism being bad, then.
Evan Carter
No, it doesn't even have an ounce of truth. And no, Ludendorff and Hindenburg weren't asking for a ceasefire, they were asking the government to end the war. German army was totally defeated. Another Allied push and they would probably disintegrate.
Lincoln Morales
Without the USSR to promote a cold war, or America being the super power to rise out of the ashes of WWI to funnel money into west Germany and consider it an ally.
Germany would have been sent back to the iron age, like it deserved
Thomas Young
The real stab in the back was by g*rmanic sympathizers who told us "they wuz good boys" and convinced us to give them a chance instead marching to berlin.
Luis Scott
Why are you conflating Zionism with Judaism?
Gavin Sullivan
The fact that sometimes the flame kills the moth doesn't negate the fact that moths are drawn to flame.
Logan Morgan
stop trying Schlomo, Judeo-Germanic industrialists had the greatest interest in WW1 and destruction of Soviets
Cooper Cooper
he sided with the US north during the civil war. He was objectively against racist institutions and told his followers who moved to the US to join the Union Army.
Leo Thompson
He sided with the north because he was against the institution of chattel slavery, not because of any race-based component to it.
you'll note he talks a lot about class and nothing at all about race.
Gavin Lopez
>Judeo-Germanic industrialists had the greatest interest in WW1 and the murder of the Christian Tsar. ftfy
David Collins
Communism doesn’t begin and end with Marx, and anti-racism has been a huge component of communist movements after him. Communists were heavily involved with black rights in the US, the IWW was the first labour union to allow membership to all workers regardless of race. Castro ended official discrimination of Afro-Cubans and implemented land reforms to end racial disparities in wealth. The Soviet Union declared that racism and nationalism were enemies of the proletariat, saying of movements like Zionism that “the main posits of modern Zionism are militant chauvinism, racism, anti-Communism and anti-Sovietism”. Numerous socialists have derided racism as a tool of the bourgeoisie to divide the proletariat. Anti racist imagery is literally everywhere in communist art, and the concept of anti racism itself is inherent to the idea of proletarian internationalism.
Dylan Taylor
You realize Marx was what American liberals would refer to as a racist, right? Marxism is about class struggle, it does not concern itself with race because such struggles are unimportant compared to the destruction of capitalism and wage slavery.
Nathaniel Long
If they aren’t then doesn’t that disprove the idea of a global Jewish conspiracy?
Chase Hernandez
So you’re saying that communism isn’t one unified movement? Because if that’s true, trying to attribute racism or anti-racism to it is kind of ridiculous. Have you ever met a communist from the old eastern block? A lot of those dudes were racist as fuck. Hell, even Marx called a dude a nigger-haired kike because he didn’t wanna loan him money.
Kayden Ward
It concerns itself with race insofar as racism is an obstacle to class unity just like nationalism. The concept of race itself is also incompatible with the idea that class is the primary factor that divides people based on their interests, and obviously disregarding race in the service of class unity (and thus opposing racism) is a necessary component of Marxism.
Ryan Williams
They're not going to stop. This is constant. Usually an user supposedly ignorant of a topic posts something, then the conversation is directed towards poltard talking points. People take the bait, often because they're on a history forum and their perception of history is so retarded.
It's a shame because it kills actually interesting discussions relating to Jews and the war.
Chase King
Old fucks from the former east bloc being racist and the official policy of the USSR being racist are different things. Officially the USSR opposed racism and ethnic discrimination in all forms.
Unnofficial social discrimination and deportation of belligerent populations are not the same thing as official racism. The former exists everywhere and is a function of social attitudes, not ideology, and the latter is just run of the mill Stalinist repression.
Jack Cook
>it’s a necessary form of Marxism Weird, Marx himself didn’t seem to think so. >stateless communism T. Trotskyist kike
Liam Wright
>belligerent populations Yeah dude the Jews and Kalmyks in the Soviet Union were real fucking belligerent.
Alexander Wilson
Don’t forget the Greeks and (ironically) the Koreans, too.
Colton Edwards
>deportation of belligerent populations So is the trail of tears and internment of Japanese-Americans during World War Two cool too?
Luis Powell
Marx was also working with 19th century racial ideas. However he did endorse internationalism, which when combined with our current scientific knowledge about race, leads inevitably to anti racism.
All the cases of mass deportations were usually related to some other reason like political dissent, separatism, or the fact that they occupied land that the state wanted to nationalize or use for something else. Stalin killed Ukrainians because they had nationalist sentiments and a high concentration of kulaks, not because he didn’t like Ukrainians.
Grayson Flores
I didn’t say they were cool. I said they weren’t motivated by racism. In the case of the US I would say that the trail of tears was motivated by racism since US policy towards natives was pretty explicitly racist, but that the Japanese internment camps weren’t. There was discrimination similar to the camps in WW1 among Germans.
Camden Garcia
>usually related to some other reason like political dissent Yeah just like how the trail of tears and Japanese internment has nothing to do with racism right?
Hunter Jenkins
The unofficial soviet policy towards all of the ethnic groups they repressed was also pretty fucking racist, m8. Stop putting the soviets up on a pedestal just because you like them.
John Williams
Okay but unofficial Soviet policy and communist ideological orthodoxy aren’t the same thing. Basic socialist principles also called for democracy, which the Soviet Union didn’t have. This was about whether or not communism is anti-racist.
Lincoln Murphy
>not explicitly motivated by racism Are stormfags not racist, then? I mean, they hate the Jews because they think they’re a threat to the white race. They’re just trying to deport what they view as a beligerent people into an oven, not racist at all. >soviet policy and communist ideology aren’t the same thing Then why did you bring them up in the first place, faggot?
James Bennett
>Are stormfags not racist, then? I mean, they hate the Jews because they think they’re a threat to the white race. They’re just trying to deport what they view as a beligerent people into an oven, not racist at all.
They also believe in biological determinism that compels Jews/blacks/etc to be enemies of whites no matter what. The USSR held no such views of Ukrainians, Kazakhs, etc. The CPSU itself was open to everybody regardless of nationality, and numerous ethnicities including Jews, Georgians, and Belorussians were overrepresented in the party. Others like Ukrainians and Armenians were represented at roughly the same rate as their populations.
>Then why did you bring them up in the first place, faggot?
Because anti racism was the official policy of the USSR, actual racism that existed was a deviation from communist ideology.
