How much validitiy does this article against SS have?

It's true, but it's about consistency. Most people never make it past a few months, or think that slabs of muscle should just be popping up after only a year of training

It's literally the name of the program: STARTING. STRENGTH. If that's your goal, do the program. If not, do something else. This isn't fucking rocket surgery, folks.

that's fucking retarded, i mean they have their own security cameras recording constantly

That is only true for a few months. It won't take long before doing 4.5 sets of bench press a week won't do much for your chest and triceps development.

After 2-3 months, you have to add more volume to get good results. You also won't get aesthetic delts by just hitting the front portion, so there's that.

ICF 5x5 is the best beginner routine in my opinion, as it has good strength progression and enough accessory work, but nothing too crazy.

Absolutely zero. That site is all marketing and sales and no knowledge. The guy who made that site is some dude in his twenties that asked him self how he could make money online and he came up with that site. Dont fall for that shit you mongrels

You need to do SS for 6 months to 2 years to get to 1/2/3/4 otherwise you wasted noob gains. Srsly get yoked and beefy squatting twice the frequency you bench, lol.

starting strength can be pretty good for mass if you follow the program correctly... I gained 40 lbs. of quality weight running the program
went from 155 squat to 315 for 3x5
95 bench to 200 3x5
and 365 1x5 diddly all in the span of 5 months.
With strength gains like that its impossible not to gain mass...

This guy is legit selling a programme lmao

> half-arses a program specifically intended to develop strength
> complains he hasn't seen aesthetic changes

What a fucking mong.

So let's say I reach my strength goals with SS, what would be the best routine for A E S T H E T I C S?

I don't even need to open the fucking link, it's ancient DYEL scamming people with its laughable routine. Go to testimonial page and his youtube channel and have a laugh.
4/10 made me reply

Read the sticky

This is the real picture of him after 2 years after adding 500lbs to all of his 3 lifts.

He shopped his pic to make him look smaller so you faggets wouldnt be jelly

SS is terrible for people that haven't done shit in their lives

calisthenics with weighted progression is the best way to get Veeky Forums if you have never lifted before

just do pull ups, dips and handstand push ups progressions until you can do them weighted, then just increase the weight

THEN transition to weightlifting if you want more mass, your body will be able to handle any routine out there without getting fat as fuck

any routine while bulking *

Why SS sucks for new lifters who are skinnyfat males
>1. Not enough frequency to keep you focused, high-level of quitting.
>2. Not enough frequency for fat loss.
>3. You will hit too many plateaus, which will discourage you.
>4. Focusing on the weight on the bar leads to compromised technique and injury. Although Rippetoe devotes a lot of space to proper technique, a novice will need a conditioning coach to keep them honest to avoid injury.
>5. Not enough visible aesthetic gains to keep a novice motivated.
>6. Squatting everyday is incongruent with male aesthetic goals. Indeed SS is a powerlifting programmed tailored for high school athletes.
>7. A gallon of milk per day is incongruent with skinnyfat fat-loss goal.

Who is SS for?
>high school and college-age athletes who practice or play their sport in conjunction with SS training

What is better for skinnyfat and fat novices?
>PPLPPLx for guys, LULxULx for girls.

What is better for skellymode novices?
>GSLP, NE, LeanGains's General Outline, or Lyle Mcdonald's Generic Bulking Routine.

I ran a bro split for 4 years. I didn't start getting spontaneous compliments from my wife about how big my arms are getting until I started running SS 3 months ago.

What the fuck did you never increase weight for 4 years?
Or do you mean you worked out consistently for 1 year spread out over 4 years?

I rarely increased weight. I followed the "do 8-12 reps, move up in weight when you hit 12" scheme.

And I went to PF, so there were no barbells.

Making 10 lb jumps on bench proved nearly impossible on that scheme, so I was stalled for a long fucking time.

You're the hero this thread never deserved.

Shit man, why spin your wheels so long?

>supposed to add 10lbs to the bar every workout
>claiming to do the program correctly for over a year
>10 lbs a workout
>for an entire year

Are these people really this clueless? You literally will be making well under the prescribed increases with 3 months max and need to move on.

I want to be a strong freak so I use SS
Just squatted 245 and 2 months ago I was doing literally 115.
Feels good lads
>tfw deadlift plateau at 295 and I just want to get to lol3plate

You've mostly created neural adaption to the movement, some muscle growth, but you really became efficient.
That's why SS is a meme the rapid weight increases early on are from beginners learning the movement pattern, people begin stalling at the point that muscle growth is needed to continue hitting prs.

Cool, well I'll be doubling my squat soon so I'll keep at barbell training and linear progression. I trust Rip

>What is better for skinny fat and fat novices?
Those programs seem like a lot of volume for beginners. For fat loss I don't think frequency matters, as long as the diet is good.

>60 year old man

> in just one year [...] I made the following gains
>after: 170 lb bench

That is fucking terrible for anyone who didn't start as a 5'5'' 125 lb weakling

1. that's retarded
2. that's retarded
3. the inverse is true
4. good luck with your no progressive overload (stagnant weight is the real reason people get bored and quit)
5. strength gains are way more palpable motivation
6. retarded
7. don't gomad if ur losing weight, retard

But then after a few months of that
Assuming you haven't injured yourself & needed to de-load to improve form, assuming you have been consistent and will still be consistent

Then you go to do something else
Theres a reason its called "starting strength"

But you can still get pretty far just doing the SS routine with some changes.

Started out 191cm (6'3'' in freedom units) and 62kg with around 20-25% bf.

1. lol its ample, if you are actually working out you will be sore af as a beginner, and likely need to take more rest days
2. ???? Do cardio if you want to do cardio
3. eat more food and there won't be any plateaus, nothing says you can't lift the same weight for a week or two either if that 125 lb OHP seems really hard
4. You figure the shit out on your own
5. Is this a joke? You will see very visible improvements as a beginner
6. So squat less
7. starting strength is not GOMAD

So basically all this thread has taught me as a novice is stick with the sticky then?

another person who couldn't tell the difference between a bodybuilding and strength routine.

Also I want to mentions this guy has started training since 2010 where as rippletits has for 25 years and kilgore has for 10 years along with having a PhD.

A year of ss?
7.5kg a week on a 20kg bar
30kg a month
Does he have a 380kg squat?

You are supposed to only run ss for 3 to 6 months...

He didnt do ss
He did sl
He didnt do the accessories the book tells you to do
Literally half the book is about accesories ffs
He had rasputin tier gains
He did a beginners program for two years
He doesnt seem to admit just how much stronger he got, and downplays strength as unimportant

>The popular advice for a beginner was to do the program ”Starting Strength” by Mark Rippetoe.
>Therefore, I did a bodybuilding version of Starting Strength called Kethnaab’s Modified Starting Strength Routine.

So he didn't DO THE FUCKING PROGRAM and wants to bitch about the fucking program. Why would you think it has ANY validity?

>In just 1 year of doing starting strength

1.) He didn't do Starting Strength
2.) Anyone doing Starting Strength for a FULL YEAR doesn't understand Starting Strength

He increased his squat 175 lbs. This should take about twelve weeks of SS if you actually do it right. It apparently took him 52 weeks, because he is a weak retard.

And 175 lbs isn't a lot of weight to put on a squat in a fucking year when you're a male in your twenties, weighing 200+ lbs, and started at a 66 lbs squat

>I re-read the Starting Strength book multiple times and worked extensively on my form but after months of trial and error, I still found myself plateauing.

Yet this dumbass never MOVED ONTO AN INTERMEDIATE ROUTINE LIKE RIP WOULD SUGGEST

He's a retard, only useful as a cautionary tale of what happens to retarded people. Do SS for 4-6 months, make all the gains he made in a year in that time frame, then transition to a weekly program, with a few arm accessories done for sets of 8-10 with minimal rest if you want dem hypertrophy gainz.

If you squat 245 and literally double it to 490 in months I'll suck Caitlin Jenner's clit.

>Who is SS for?
>high school and college-age athletes who practice or play their sport in conjunction with SS training

This is wrong. SS is not to be done in conjunction with practice for most sports, as practicing the sport is, itself, enough of a stress event to fuck all up the recovery you need after the SS workouts.

Most of everything else you said is also wrong, but this was the most staggeringly ignorant thing you said.

This. I never did SS but come on. Its like cutting the breaks to a car and then trying to sue the manufacturers for producing faulty cars. He didnt do it the way it was intended, nor did he even get past reading the title: STARTING Strength. Any sort of LP isnt viable for over a year. Hell, you can hop off SS after 4 months if youre plateauing regularly.

>He didnt do the accessories the book tells you to do
>Literally half the book is about accesories ffs

The vast majority of those accessories are explicitly not to be done on the Beginner Program. The only one that is supposed to be included is chin ups. He says they're important enough to be a core lift, but the difficulty in incrementally weighting them like you can with a barbell makes them slightly less useful.

All of the other accessories are for possible inclusion in more advanced programs, like weekly intermediate programs. It's just that SS was the better fit for How To Do Various Useful Exercises, when it wouldn't really have fit in PP

Hang on, I was under the impression that Starting Strength was developed for high school football players, is this wrong?
Was SS made for a different reason altogether?
I only did gslp since I hated squatting 3 times and benching 1.5 times a week and moved in after getting 180/265/300 did I leave noob gains on the table?

>SS is completely fine so long as you change it

A lot of the principles Rip learned that ended up in SS where gleaned from The Strongest Shall Survive, a book by Bill Starr directly largely at strength training football players.

SS is just strength training for any idiot novice, whether they intend to play football or not. And, believe me, workouts like SS can't occur DURING a football season. You do them in the off season, do some conditioning before the season, and generally keep the training volume in the gym during the season MUCH lower than it was in the off season.

>Compared to VOL, greater improvements (P < 0.05) in lean arm mass (5.2 ± 2.9% vs. 2.2 ± 5.6%) and 1RM BP (14.8 ± 9.7% vs. 6.9 ± 9.0%) were observed for INT
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562558/
>Results indicate that hypertrophic outcomes are similar when training with repetition durations ranging from 0.5 to 8 s.
>Findings suggest that training at volitionally very slow durations (>10s per repetition) is inferior from a hypertrophy standpoint,
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25601394
>Our main finding was that LL resistance training was sufficient to induce a small but significant muscle hypertrophy in healthy young men. However, LL resistance training was inferior to HL training in evoking adaptive changes in muscle size and contractile strength and was insufficient to induce changes in MHC composition.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787090

Literally kill yourselves and never post here again. Exactly in that order

I don't understand how some beginners can squat 3 times a week. In my first few months my legs and ass were sore for 3-4 days after squatting

>adding 500 pounds to my compound lifts didn't change my body composition
what an e-statting bullshitter
I've reached 1/2/3/4 on SS in about 6 months and I've never looked bigger
sure I gained some fat but that's not an issue I can't fix

>Not enough frequency to keep you focused, high-level of quitting.
I'd argue the opposite, especially BECAUSE you get results in the form of weight increments every single workout, it's more of a motivator than waiting until you can see abs

>Not enough frequency for fat loss.
You can't do both gain muscle and lose fat reliably at the same time.
How about you try gaining muscle first, after that losing fat will be SO much easier because your daily calorie intake is going to be higher.

>You will hit too many plateaus, which will discourage you.
If you do it WRONG yeah. Trying to eat less to stay lean is DOING IT WRONG. You need to put on some FAT to get STRONG, FAST. Fuck your abs. For now.

>Focusing on the weight on the bar leads to compromised technique and injury. Although Rippetoe devotes a lot of space to proper technique, a novice will need a conditioning coach to keep them honest to avoid injury.
I just read the book. Not one injury so far and I've been out of novice mode for a while now.

>Not enough visible aesthetic gains to keep a novice motivated.
nobody cares about a fag who can't wait 6 months for his abs and ends up getting NOTHING, then complains online about it

>Squatting everyday is incongruent with male aesthetic goals. Indeed SS is a powerlifting programmed tailored for high school athletes.
Disagreed. People are too afraid of T-Rex mode. Fact is, a strong squat means a stronger deadlift and power clean.
You think your abs are gonna grow from bench pressing? Your abs are gonna show when you're squatting 4 plate for reps. The rest will catch up.

> A gallon of milk per day is incongruent with skinnyfat fat-loss goal.
only auschwitz skeletons get to drink a gallon of milk, and only for a few months because they REFUSE TO EAT PROPERLY

any questions?

hahahahahahah
hahahahah
hahahahahahahah

same experience here, but I did """SS""" with 3 sets of 8 for about a year because
>muh aesthetic rep range

what a stupid idiot I was, I gained twice of what I gained in that year on proper SS with a proper bulk and got stronger than I ever was

I was a semi athletic skeleton (I was top heavy from doing pullups and pushups but never ate near enough or worked out enough) and SS did well for me, I put on a ton of mass on my back from deadlifts and my legs were no sticks anymore.

After 6 monthjs I moved onto my own programme and it's been working out great, in total, went from 67 kg to 85kg in 7 months.

You're delusional if you think he has gained no muscle.

You also undermine your own argument. IF you say as it is, that he ONLY got more efficient with his already existing muscles (let's define this as: he uses a bigger percentage of his muscle fibers in any given movement), that would mean he breaks down more muscle fibers in a shorter amount of time.

And we all know what happens when you break down muscle fibers, especially you bodybuilders should be familiar with it.
You
grow
muscle.

And according to your argument, a lot faster and more efficient than you do!

Just do SS, get your lifts up there and you can have your own opinion about whether it was worth it to do it or not.

Even if it wasn't, you'll be strong enough to bench 2 plate for reps (if you do SS right that is) and make your mantits as big as you want them to be.

I'm 5 foot 7 137lbs weakling and I can rep 170 after 6 weeks of strength training. Being a manlet is no excuse

Adding 500lbs to your total from untrained really isn't that much, you probably already added way more than that and that is why you look better than him

>240 squat after 1 year of SS
>1 year of SS

And people listen to this guy, sad

>SS sucks!
>Buy my stuff!

Shilling level: 100

>STARTING strength
>not for beginners

yeah, sure thing dumbass

>SS is completely fine so long as you're not a retard

>Be super fat starting SS
>Lose 100 pounds on it
>Get a 500 pound deadlift
>Only injured myself when I triedf Smolov Jr.

Fuck off.

>I added 500lbs to my compound lifts
>Includes OHP and rows

This guy is a dipshit but yeah SS isn't great for a beginner unless a big squat is your sole concern. If you care at all about balanced lifts and a proportionate physique there are better choices, even as a rank beginner e.g GSLP

I'm not going to bother reading this but the whole point of SS is for someone who has never been in a gym before to get strong over a period of a few months. If that isn't your goal then SS isn't for you.

He didn't do the program, so none.