Tenochtitlan

user that will happen to us when aliens come

*sneezes*

yes, and they could have done it without the disease. that's just how much more advanced europe was than america at the time, despite what some anons will say, since they have wrongfully romanticized them.

The Spanish were less then 1% of the total troops involved: There were about 200,000 native soldiers involved in toppling the Aztecs, there were around 1000 spaniards. Smallpox had also devasted the city prior to the siege.

You are fucking retarded.

The Spanish were beaten by Tlaxcala, which was a confederacy of city states maybe 1/30th the size of the Aztec empire that the Aztecs had spent the past few decades sieging. They were also beaten by the Aztecs terribly in the Noche La Triste. The only time they actually had actual success against proper states in the region untill the siege that weren't small towns/were unarmed was in the battle of otumba, when the Aztecs faced calvery for the first time and and misinterpretd dhte Spnaish's actions; and even here the Spanish drastically relied on the help of Tlaxcallan, Totonac, and Otomi forces they were allied wth.

The siege of Tenochtitlan happened after the Aztecs had been struck by famine/smallpox for months with half the city sick or dying, and even then it took not only the Tlaxcalla/Totonacs/ otomi, but multiple aztec cities flipping sides, including the second most important. The Spanish then took decades, still relying on native troops, to conquer to the west, north, and south, and were beaten by the Chichimeca doing a guerrilla war, were nearly beaten in the mixton rebellion, and didn't finish conquering the maya till the 1690's, and this was all as epidemics were causing 90% population losses

To claim the spanish would have won without native help or dieases is fucking ludricous: They were absurdly outnumbered and outsupplied, were poor and most didn't have steel armor, and those that did mostly changed it for native ones due to the climate, so they were just as vunerable to native obsidian weapons, arrows, and atlatl darts as they were to their steel swords, and early firearms are inaccurate as shit and take ages to reload and really weren't that much better then atlatl'.

>22 million

Where are the bodies?

To think, they drained the lake and turned that engineering marvel into fucking Mexico City

...

In the great pile, how have not heard of this?

Tenochtitlan, 17th century.

Looks empty without Spanish conquistadors.

Wanna see something depressing. Look at 1510 to 1750.

mexicomaxico.org/Tenoch/EvolCDMX/TenochEvol.htm

>Okay, let's say you kill all the Aztecs (even though Nahuatl today is spoken by 1.7 million people)
You do know the Tlaxcaltecs who aided the Spaniards spoke Nahuatl too? Not to mention there were survivors of the Aztecs. They didn't all die, but many did.

Nice mexica propaganda

Reminder that this is the most updated version of Tenochtitlan's ceremonial precinct according to most recent studies and finds.

It's based on studies, I guess you wouldn't know though.

What is it about native americans that attract so many LARPers?
Wow, a primitive empire that got blown the fuck out by Europe, who cares, really?

they finally reached the bronze age in the 1400s

You cared enough to post. Most people aren't larping either, just posting info about them and showing interest.

Because every day there's this same thread with the same images being posted over and over again.

You don't have to click on it. There's the same Rome and WW2 threads everyday but you don't see me complaining.

well with that attitude why study anything about history?
>wow x got blown out by x, who cares, really?

Then hide it you fucking troglodyte

God those Ameridnian names are so ugly and their faces too ugh ewww...

That's true. It's best to avoid Peru, Bolivia, Chile and Ecuador. Those places are full of ugly people. Don't go there.

Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela are great. They are filled with beautiful people who will make your dreams come true. Your genes will surely be useful there.

About 2,500 Spanish soldiers (his initial force had 630 men including 16 horsemen, 30 crossbowmen, 12 gunmen, 450 foot soldiers, and a little over 100 sailors, but it was reinforced many times) but they were a minor presence compared to the disease that killed 90% of the population and the hundred-thousand strong assortment of Mesoamerican allies.

>I have no idea about the subject: The post

You sound so biased I can tell you're south american.

How tf they drain that big ass lake??

...

One spaniard is worth 1 million natives in sheer military force

Actually it was the Tlaxcalans that did most of the destroying.

Aztecs shouldn't have pissed off their neighbors so much they team up with the weird bearded aliens from across the ocean.

>universal linear progression of historical ages based on metal usage
this fucking meme

They were ok with ignoring them until Cortez started allying with their rivals and sacking tributary cities.

Keep sucking the dicks of retarded American educators who taught you this idea that 1000 Spaniards toppled an Empire by themselves.

I swear the stupidity of your kind is astounding.

Ahem.

Most retarded post in the thread right here

It didn't happen all at once, retard

Great argument.

Also avoid Guatemala and Southern Mexico.

He's objectively correct.

This thread has more dumb shit then mesoamerican threads usually do, are we getting raided by /pol/ or are people just baiting?

please make it a webm man

>technological advancement is measured by how good you are at killing people

Just view the fullsize images in Worth noting the 200k population figure in the 1510 image is only for the main Tenochtitlan/Tlatelolco island, not for every settlement visible there. Tlacopan/Tacuba shown there for instance had 30k-40k people, Itzalpalapa likely had around 20k to 30k as well. So the total population count of every town/city in the image is probably around 400k or so

It's friday and the kids are out

This. Ugly people tend to be criminals so you will have a bad time while you are there. If you are white and black, it's better to go to the places I listed here.

Thats amazing

Except Amerindians had a higher development rate than europeans. How is this hard to get?

My sides.
Criminally underrated post.
Here's your (you)

s u d a c a

Montezuma II's thinking is only dumb in hindsight/out of context.

Having rulers of enemy states comiing into the city for diplomatic events was the norm in mesoamerics. To kill a dignitary/messenger, let alone do an assault on a city/royalty during a diplomatic event, would be like the president of a country having raped a kid. It would be a total faux pass diplomatically, and he didn't forsee it

That's the case because prestige and reputation was important in diplomacy and politics: Since most mesoameriican states, including the aztecs, were based around still independently governed vassals as tributaries rather then direct rule, making sure your tributaries were either scared of you, or respect you enough to toe the line is key to holding onto power and influence: making yourself untrustwoorthy or look incompetent will have your tributaries refuse to pay tribute, or your allies/willing vassal cities not want to anymore (Tizoc, and aztec ruler, was so hilariously incompetent and had so many tributaries go "lol nah" to paying tribute that the aztec nobility had him assassinated) Montezuma II refusiing entry or ambushing to a small bad of foreigners who previously got their asses handed to them by the tlaxcala, who you have spentt the past few decades beating up, would have seriously hurt his image: He'd be seen as coowardly, and as not somebody to trust.

forgot to reply to this in

>not posting the full mural

>>some wierd people arrived from overseas lets welcome them into the city
This isn't the thread about modern Germany user

what ethnic group does the white woman with tattoos on her legs represent?

I think that montezuma was not the rightful heir, his brother was. But montezuma got in bed with the priests to overthrow his more rational brother. So when we "gods" came, he was forced to accept them because he had enslaved himself to the priests.

Looks like Angelina Jolie to me

I mean, you just have to read all the shit below to know at what level those "studies" are. Apparently the mexicas were demigods and Tenochtitlan was the Paradise on earth.

Source?

Source for what?
>Los mexicas fueron incansables y ordenados constructores.
>Los mexicas fueron en extremo cuidadosos con el agua y el medio ambiente.
>Los mexicas lograron mantener un equilibrio ecológico insuperable.
>Los mexicas derrotados por las tribus enemigas aliadas a los conquistadores, la enfermedades que trajeron y la falta de suministro de agua, fueron capaces, tras su caída, de volver a construir la Ciudad de México.
>Los mexicanos estamos en deuda con ellos.
>Los mexicanos estamos urgidos de sentir orgullo por lo nuestro.
>Los mexicanos queremos oír historias de éxito de nuestra gente
>Los mexicanos debemos voltear a ver con orgullo a los que fueron nuestros orígenes. mayas, teotihuacanos, mexicas, olmecas, etc.
>PERO LA VERDADERA FECHA DEL BICENTENARIO DE LA CONSUMACIÓN DE LA INDEPENDENCIA DE ESPAÑA SERÁ EN 2021
They are basically glorifying them and throwing shit to Spain because we wuz mexicas and shiet.

>Your genes will surely be useful there
>Saying this to a Veeky Forums browser

This is essentially true

That's a blog.
What's the source of the photos, why do you reject the photos?

She's not white,she has yellow paint. She is a Nahua/Aztec. She is showing off her painted legs because she is a prostitute one finds at the market place called the Ahuiani. Check out the Florentine Codex book 10 if you want to read more.

Damn that was painful to watch. Why the fuck did they drain the lake?
Why not establish the capital outside the lake?

Nahua isn't synonymous with Aztec, at least not as people use the term.

Technically, they ARE synoymous, since Aztec means "people from Aztlan". "Nahua" is an ethnic group, refers to the groups of sub-ethncities that migrated down to the valley of mexico in the late-postclassic that speak nahuatl, and share a culture and have a legend of coming down from a place called Aztlan.

However, people currently use the word aztec typically to either refer to the "Aztec empire" as political unit, which is really an alliance of 3 city states(all 3 were founded by a nahua subgroup), Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan, and Texcoco, and all of the tributaries and vassals they control; OR when talking about religion and society, most of the time people are speffically talking about the Mexica, which is the Nahua grup that founded tenochtitlan

The Aztec's (and mesoamerica in general) was really damn good and hydraluics, so they had a bunch of aquaducts, sewage systems, dikes, and other systems to keep the lake from flooding into the city, which was basically venice with canals and such all over the place. When the spanish sieged the city with their tens of thousands of allies from native states/flipped aztec cities, they destroyed most of those systems, without realizing that the rebuilt tenochtitlan, now mexico city, would flood.

So they drained it because it kept flooding.

Aztec can also refer to non Nahuas.

These always look much more impressive in pictures. When you actually stand there and there's five buildings the size of a small commie block and a supermarket.

It's one of these things where you have to qualify impressive with "for their time", which means it looks bland and boring to modern eyes, which are used to far better craftsmanship and a bigger scale.

You need to remember that even the best preserved ruins of these sites are still very worn. There's not a siingle ruin from an Aztec or aztec related culture where the outer covering of lime stucco and paint/murals are intact

For Templo Mayor (the main temple in particular) only the interior layers of it (mesoamerican pyramids are built on top of each other in layers) are left, and almost entirely destroyed.

If it was still around today, it would be larger then most of the modern buildings around it

Attached: gran-templo.jpg (1199x900, 1.68M)

I was going to say the same thing, is it just the same retard deliberately trying to derail?

>That lady
>White
t. La Creatura

You can still find pieces of Technotitlan around Mexico City, if you look hard enough

Attached: 1519604493560.jpg (1200x1600, 658K)

he isn't

sounds like pure bullshit since they lost to a superior power. how hard is that to get?

>no citation for claims

Retard: The Post

This shit spooks me, in a way. Imagine being just an average jobber when the spics showed up.

>Those well read know only that your nation/empire was once not as big as it was, but rather that it over time became this way
>Tales of triumphs over other people will be told
>Your nation is the epitome of progress, power, the ideal place to live and generally accepted as the peak of what people have managed to achieve
>All of this is done with sound belief in your gods, who you have no reason to doubt or question
>Suddenly it is all not only called into question, but razed to the ground
>Scattered into the jungles
>The entire world as you know it shattered

Especially since the didn't even have iron weapons or horse etc the Spanish played the city states against each to win making the surperior to them

List 5 specific things in there you want citations for, and i'll get you citations for them, probably for more then that. I plan on responding to other posts in the thread that are skeptical/are saying dumb shit as well to explain further, i'll post the sources foor the things you want when i get around to that

It's less the spanish playing the city states against each other, as the city states playing the spanish too take tthe aztecs out for them.

The totonacs allied with the spanish, and then guided the spanish into tlaxcala territory, who they were enemies with. And then after the Tlaxcallans beat them and spared them, the Tlaxcala manipulated them into doing the massacre of cholula, when the cholulans had just flipped sides from being pro tlaxcala to pro aztec, and so on.

aztec was a name coined by some german archaeologist in the 19th century. i've heard it's one of those words that we've adopted but is actually imprecise or misunderstood at least.

That's correct, but it is an actual nahautl word that means "people/person from aztlan", as I said.

The Aztec had it coming.

>The Aztecs had it coming to have their empire shatter

Yes, they were manipulative militaristic expansionists, though that really applies for most empirs in history

>The Aztecs (and mesooamericans in general) had it coming to have all of their accomplishments erased from history and their population suffer 95% mortality rates

No.

Wrong.
>europeans
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to solutrean:10000 years (30000BC-20000BC)
>from aurignacian-antelian to start of crop development: 9000 years(30000BC-21000BC)
>from start of crop development to neolithic revolution: 10500 years (21000BC-10500BC)
>from neolithic revolution to earliest use of copper: 5500 years (10500BC-5000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to earliest use of tin bronze: 6700 years (10500BC-3800BC)

>Amerindians:
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to clovis: 5500 years (16000BC-10500BC)
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to the start of crop development: 5000 years (16000BC-11000BC)
>from start of crop development to neolithic revolution: 7000 years (11000BC-4000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to copper: 3000 years (4000BC-1000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to earliest use of tin bronze: 4700 years (4000BC-700 AD)

-"2003a. Tiwanaku Period (Middle Horizon) bronze metallurgy in the lake Titicaca basin: A preliminary assessment. En Tiwanaku and its hinterland, T 2. A. Kolata, (Ed.), pp. 404-434. Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington D. C."
-"1997. El bronce arsenical y el Horizonte Medio. En Arqueología, antropología e historia en los Andes: Homenaje a María Rostworowski, R. Varón y J. Flores E. (Eds.), pp. 153-186. Instituto de Estudios Peruanos, Lima."
-"researchgate.net/publication/317346941_Ancient_metalworking_in_South_America_A_3000-year-old_copper_mask_from_the_Argentinian_Andes"
-"Historia de América Andina: Las sociedades aborígenes"
-"link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02859340"
-"journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923"
-"whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1873/"
-"es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoamericano"
-"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluefish_Caves"

Amerindians had a higher development rate than europeans. Therefore Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans. Conclusion: Amerindians are superior to europeans.

Attached: totora raft.jpg (500x334, 86K)

Attached: Tenochtitlan Aztec captial map teno.jpg (5000x3100, 1.28M)

Is there more stuff like this?

yes, a lot of colional era buildings in general, especially churches, were made froom the rubble/bricks of torn down mesamerican buildings; though most don't have the actual sculptures or reliefs carved into them still visible like that (some do, though)

they still lost to a superior power tho

The "lake" was more or less just stagnant water which is a terrible thing to have with a big city.

Wrong. Imperial Incas won most battles. European diseases destroyed Amerindian civilizations.