So what do we know about Tollense battle?

same difference

So did the Celts win again against Slavs? Lusatian culture seemed kinda Celtic influenced, didn't it?

Germanic doesn't equal German. Many Anglo historians speak about 'Germans' during Roman times, but there were no Germans back then.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in skull autism:
imgur.com/a/NaJvn
imgur.com/a/ziQ2k

imgur.com/a/WoQHp
imgur.com/a/Fo5h6
imgur.com/a/ub5GU
imgur.com/a/QFBUP
imgur.com/a/GCYWk
imgur.com/a/3pwF6
imgur.com/a/rQLSg
imgur.com/a/6wCUp
imgur.com/a/64UlN
imgur.com/a/d6Je7
imgur.com/a/RsnOl
imgur.com/a/InjfG
imgur.com/a/aKSP1
imgur.com/a/nzPjl

>Celts against Slavs
How do you figure that?

What are those colors supposed to mean

Bigger map.

Interestingly enough, the battlefield is exactly at the only bridge over the river (Tollense) that marks the border of the Nordic bronze age culture at 1200, the date of the battle. Go figure.

Lack of genetically Nordic individuals among the fallen. There were a few, but a small minority. Most were of a more southern or eastern type.

It's a really, really terrible map, but
Yellow = Nordic Bronze Age
Pink = Lusatian culture
Orange = Northern Urnfield culture
Red = Central Urnfield culture
Green = Atlantic Bronze Age
Purple = Knoviz culture
Blue = Terramare culture
Brone = Danubian culture

>Lack of genetically Nordic individuals among the fallen.
Winners don't end in shallow mass graves.

>There were a few, but a small minority. Most were of a more southern or eastern type.
Show a relevant source please.

actually cities predate the domesticated horse by some time

Where are the Nuragic and the Milazzese?

Terramare was only in Emilia

I said the map was bad

Those maps are hardly accurate.
Just a reminder that will make Meds butthurt.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baltic_Origins_of_Homer's_Epic_Tales

Given that the Lusatian culture was actually a local group of the Urnfield culture, could the battle have been fought between peoples of the Nordic Bronze Age and the peoples of Urnfield culture?

Strontium analysis seems to support some of this, like many combatants likely were from around southern Germany, but so far they only sampled few individuals and the full picture is not clear yet.

publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/volltexte/2017/100001279/pdf/100001279.pdf
They found large diversity in the samples, with a large number having South-Central European affinities which in this case means southern. We should expect proto-Germanics to be a genetic group and not a racially diverse community of people from all over Europe.
Urnfield Celts on the other hand would be expected to be diverse.
With Trzciniec involved as well. Tollense wasn't even far from it.

>publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/volltexte/2017/100001279/pdf/100001279.pdf
>21 samples, from an entire battlefield
>only losers were tossed into the river, winner were given a hero's funeral some place else
Still not sure how you figure celts vs. slavs, the results are inconclusive at best.

>the most ancient Mycenaean graves are rich in amber, a typical Baltic product, whereas the latest ones are not
>The climate described by Homer is cold and stormy: mist and wind often appear and storms are heavy. The characters are often covered with thick cloaks and are never described as sweating because of the heat. Although in the period normally chosen to date the Trojan War (8th century BC) the average temperature was lower than it is nowadays, the Homeric weather conditions are difficult to adapt to the Aegean area, especially considering that the events are likely to be happened in summer. According to Vinci, instead, this descriptions would be perfect for the Baltic regions in the 18th century BC (which would be the real period of the Trojan War) when temperatures in Northern Europe were by far higher than now: the drop in temperatures at a later time would have forced Achaeans to emigrate southwards.[13]
>in the great battle between Achaeans and Trojans, linchpin of Iliad's central books, the time of noon is quoted at two different moments: in the author's opinion, this wouldn't be a mistake: the battle would have simply continued for two consecutive days, thanks to the midnight sun, which let the warriors carry on fighting. Other references to this phenomenon are the exceptional duration of the day among the Laestrygonians and Ulysses' uncertainty when trying to find his way to Aeaea, since he cannot figure out where the sun rises and where it sets.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas

Nuragic graves have amber too, it doesn’t mean they were Nordics

>Nordics
>Indo-Europeans
Oh god, don't start this shit again.

>Those can be divided into two groups and some outliers. One smaller wider spread group clustering with “middle and eastern” European individuals consisting of WEZ15, WEZ39, WEZ40, WEZ48, WEZ58 and WEZ83, and a second tighter and larger group clustering closer to the “southern” Europeans including all other individuals except the three outliers WEZ16, WEZ54 and the contaminated WEZ77.
Inconclusive or not we now forget about Germanics vs Balto-Slavs.
There was something very different going on there.

it means there was probably trade in amber going on with the Baltic region

>WE

There was.

It was a fight between the Germanics and some native Corded Ware folk.

Yes obviously

>Bronze Age Poland
>Corded Ware
Nope. They were already mixed with Beakers.

>trade in amber
Tin and Bronze was likely traded in return

Whatever. They had more Corded DNA though.

If the proto-Germanic community was so multiracial and southern, why aren't Swedes and Danes similar to Austrians and Italians?
Makes no sense.

Source?

They clustered with Lithuanians, so were more on the Corded side.

Again, why do you think it is the proto-Germanics that ended up in the ditch in Tollense and not the other way round? Like if Germanics won the battle, then they find not much trace of them because they would have removed their own dead and what was found is only a sample of the losing side, which was obviously from all over central Europe?

Thats not exactly a source.

Are those skulls from Tollense?

Yes. And they are vorwiegend Nordisch :)

They were doli Nordic warriors, as we can see :)

Please don't start

Silence dog. Don't ruin another thread.

t. TÜRAN polacke :)

You should be permabanned without possibility of switching IP. Not because you speak about your Nordic fantasies, but because you ruin every thread with your idiotic spam. Now stop attention whoring and get the fuck out.

cool

We can make up stories for days about what happened and none of them will be any good.
Maybe proto-Germanics were supposed to fight with proto-Polacks together but their leader made a deal with Urnfield chiefs and they left right before the battle started.

>Nordic fantasies
Fantasies? So now you deny that Tollense were dolichocephalic and progressive featured warriors?

They were not "proto-Polacks" in Tollense battle. Only proto-Germanics and proto-Vandals (ancestors of Silesians) :)

>all the dead warriors were dolichocephalic
Does this mean that brachoids were the victors?

>Only proto-Germanics and proto-Vandals

>The massacre sites of Talheim, Germany, and Asparn/Schletz, Austria, have long been the focal points around which hypotheses concerning a final lethal crisis of the first Central European farmers of the Early Neolithic Linearbandkeramik Culture (LBK) have concentrated. With the recently examined LBK mass grave site of Schöneck-Kilianstädten, Germany, we present new conclusive and indisputable evidence for another massacre, adding new data to the discussion of LBK violence patterns. At least 26 individuals were violently killed by blunt force and arrow injuries before being deposited in a commingled mass grave. Although the absence and possible abduction of younger females has been suggested for other sites previously, a new violence-related pattern was identified here: the intentional and systematic breaking of lower limbs. The abundance of the identified perimortem fractures clearly indicates torture and/or mutilation of the victims. The new evidence presented here for unequivocal lethal violence on a large scale is put into perspective for the Early Neolithic of Central Europe and, in conjunction with previous results, indicates that massacres of entire communities were not isolated occurrences but rather were frequent features of the last phases of the LBK.
There must be something in Germany's soil because even peaceful farmers became genocidal maniacs there.

slavs were still in the swamps of Belarus back then

There were no Germanics in Bronze Age. Vandals didn't exist up untill Antiquity. Central European Iron Age spawned Germanics. But you're a complete fucking moron anyway, so. That's like speaking to an inbred.

WWWHHHHYYYYYY

Just don't respond to the rat and he will go away.

There probably wasn't enough food to go around. That makes people really violent really quickly.

>There were no Germanics in Bronze Age
They were. Never heard of the Nordic Bronze Age? Their descendants fought in the Tollense battle and migrated to Silesia :)

Bump

>he's back

If the germanics won, how come the are had been mainly slavic for several centuries to come?

>EYE LOVE INTERNETS :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Lusatian culture wasn't Slavic, but yeah I don't think Tollense can be used as some kind of starting point for the Germanic expansion since it only really started in the Iron Age. That being said it doesn't necessarily rule out a "Germanic" (or NBA) victory since a victory doesn't require expansion. Otherwise since Lusatian culture or Urnfield culture didn't expand into NBA territory you could argue using your logic that it was an NBA victory, but obviously it has to be one or the other.

The Kurgan hypothesis was right all along

fight me

>how come the are had been mainly slavic for several centuries to come?
Thats not even a sentence, wanna try again?

>Weapons and horses have existed since before the first cities.

Actually it was only after Proto-Indo-European migration happened that Europe and the middle east saw horses, up until then, the focal points of planetary civilization like Sumeria were only familiar with donkeys

>this triggers the TÜRAN polacke
:)

Not really since Polacks are mostly Nordids and West Baltids. Meanwhile "Silesians", yeah well...

Wrong. poolacken are baltomongols (TÜRAN)

Silesians are Nordic Vandalic masterrace :)

Those "southern" Tollense samples actually represent remnants of the Nordic Funnelbeaker Aryans :)

>Funnelbeaker
m*Dshit

p*Lack

They were predominantly blonde-haired and blue-eyed Nordics :) not swarthoids like Corded and Beaker Indo-Gypsies :)

Only those in Sweden, because of their EHG admixture :)
Actually a German :)

Still lighter than Corded Indo-Gypsies :)

Nope, Cordeds were NORDIC (especially those in Silesia).

t. p*Lack subhuman

>Only those in Sweden, because of their EHG admixture
Are you fucking retarded? There were no EHG in Scandinavia. Those were SHG.

Nope, they were swarthoids.

SHG were dominantly EHG in Norway and close to 50-50 in Sweden Motala because of migration patterns.
I've wondered for a long time if some of the Q in Norway is from mesolithic EHG which would also mean the Yamna component in Norwegians is exaggerated.
t. other

4 m*Dshits (assimilated farmers)
1. north atlantid (nordic-med mix)
2. nordic

And this is just Germany, because Lithuanian samples are all Nordic due to lack of farmer genes...

SHG were EHG...
This is what caused blondism in them...

Overall, Scandinavia was the only already light pigmented region (except Indo-Germanic lands of course) before CWC and BB...

Funnelbeaker was blonde-haired and blue-eyed
Corded Ware was brown-haired and brown-eyed

Deal with it shitskin :)

>"Funnelbeaker" Swedes were blonde-haired and blue-eyed
>"Corded Ware" crypto-Funnelbeakers were brown-haired and brown-eyed

wow... who would have guessed?

Doesn't change the fact that Indo-Gypsies were swarthoids :)

Why are you all so sure it was one culture fighting another?

Funnelbeakers looked like Sardinians. One of the Tollense samples is a Funnelbeaker 2000 years older than the battle(16).
Yeah he had slight WHG shift but such a thing doesn't make you blonde but the opposite.
Maybe they looked like Moroccans? Who knows

Nope. Indo-Germanics were Nordic :)

He thinks that Swedish Funnelbeakers were the textbook ones... lmao...

Nope, they were swarthoids :)

See and Yamnaya samples

I'm also curious.

>Yamnaya
EHG rapebabies
>Corded Ware
Light pigmented besides a few German samples. And NORDIC skulled especially in Silesia and Czechia :)