Most powerful European nation through history

>21st century
>Not germany

21st Century doesn't include Germany due to lack of Nuclear weapons

hey....you...

Attached: CROIVE-BATTON-BOYIIII.png (962x1049, 585K)

Also before anyone asks, my country isn't on the list so i don't think I'm particularly biased

it's louis XIV btw... file name not related

>HRE
>Ever being the most powerful anything
>Russia is somehow not the most powerful nation in the 20th or 21st century
>Dutch being anything other than just an economic powerhouse and shit tier in everything else

And why is that?

Opened the thread expecting a meme list but it's actually on point.
Good going OP

Russia isn't European.

lol sure m8

A considerable amount of Russia is in Asia

so? I guess the Spanish were not European in the 16th century either. Or the British for that matter.

Then you can't consider the UK, France, or any country whose ranking is bolstered by their overseas territories. Slavs are European, Russia's capital has always been in Europe - any Eastern territory needs to be considered with the same criteria you would apply to England or France's colonies.

>20th Century - U.S.A.
>21st Century - U.S.A.
the U.S.A. was established as a European colony which kept that identity through its independence and regardless it was the most powerful nation on the planet during those times anyway

1 to 21st century - Poland

That's a fair point.
I suppose i excluded it as it didn't seem typically European what with Mongol invasions and the such.

USA is not part of Europe thus not included, besides, the 20th century wouldn't be USA alone

Why would the Mongols make it non-European? Is Bulgaria and Greece not European because of T*rks?

>15th Century - Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom Of England/Portugese Empire
How in God's name is England on this list but France isn't when this is the century in which England gets kicked out of France? Also Portugal shouldn't really be on this list, Portugal's colonial exploits only really start at the end of this century, they wouldn't have been able to match the other European powers yet.

Well the Anglo-French lands under Henry V i took to be the most powerful, but once that fell apart, the HRE resumed position as dominant. By the end of the century Portugal was incredibly rich and had a colonial empire

every allied state owed the U.S.A money and had most of their colonial assets dissolved yeah it would

If USA was included I'd have
>20th Century - British Empire/Germany/USA
USA wasn't the most powerful through the entirety of the 20th century

th Century - North Sea Empire/Holy Roman Empire
>North Sea Empire
Based inclusion

Attached: Cnut-north-sea-empire.png (947x749, 66K)

th Century - British Empire/Germany
germany spent half of the 20th century divided.st Century - United Kingdom/France
ironically here is where germany's placement is more appropriate

The list is made that includes a country if it was the most powerful for some time or of it is close enough to 1st place.
The 3rd Reich was notably powerful. In the 21st century, Germany doesn't have nuclear weapons

Fuck outta here. Russia has always been part of Europe. Ethnic Russians (slavs) are 100% Europeans.

Military:
1) Russia
2) Britain
3) France

Economy:
1) Germany
2) Britain
3) France

Cultural influence (so many candidates):
Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece etc..

>Kingdom Of England
>Dutch Empire

Hmm, well it's true Germany has a better economy and i have used economy for some other inclusions.
I agree, 21st century should have Germany also
?

>17th Century - Dutch Empire/Kingdom of France
Nope
Spain in the first half (pre-Recroi), France in the 2nd half
>18th Century - British Empire/French Empire
Well memed
France was strong in Europe, but weak and irrelevant overseas
Britain was weak in Europe and not so relevant overseas
In realitythe most powerful would be be Russia, France and Prussia in Europe
And Spain overseas
>19th Century - British Empire
Overseas yeah, but in Europe it was Russia before Crimea and then Prussia/Germany
>20th Century - British Empire/Germany
Yeah, Britain overseas and Germany in Europe
>21st Century - United Kingdom/France
Mostly irrelevant
America dominates

>17th Century - Dutch Empire/Kingdom of France
Nope
Spain in the first half (pre-Recroi), France in the 2nd half
>18th Century - British Empire/French Empire
Well memed
France was strong in Europe, but weak and irrelevant overseas
Britain was weak in Europe and not so relevant overseas
In realitythe most powerful would be be Russia, France and Prussia in Europe
And Spain overseas
>19th Century - British Empire
Overseas yeah, but in Europe it was Russia before Crimea and then Prussia/Germany
>20th Century - British Empire/Germany
Yeah, Britain overseas and Germany in Europe
>21st Century - United Kingdom/France
Mostly irrelevant
America dominates

I had the dutch in the 17th century due to their economic successes and the power of the VOC which had an enormous navy and huge wealth. I do agree i should've added Spain to 17th. I didn't include Russia as mentioned in OP. I didn't include Prussia in 18th as it still wasn't as economically successful as France and Britain who both had large navies, colonial empires and well developed and industrial economies (France less so). I believe Spain had declined too much due to silver inflation and naval lagging to be the most powerful by the 18th.
Furthermore the list is about power overall and not just influence in European politics, hence why Germany isn't in 19th century as they weren't really comparable to British empire

Forgot greentext oh well

17th century (first half) Dutch dominate everything from trade to technology and warfare. Spain just had a bumfuck of colonies and some succeses here and there, nothing more.

The netherlands were just an economic and naval superpower, on land it wouldn't be able to do shit against France, Sweden, Austria or anyone else.

Revised list:
>1st Century - Roman Empire
>2nd Century - Roman Empire
>3rd Century - Roman Empire
>4th Century - Roman Empire
>5th Century - Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire
>6th Century - Byzantine Empire
>7th Century - Byzantine Empire
>8th Century - Francia/Byzantine Empire
>9th Century - Francia
>10th Century - Holy Roman Empire(/Kievan Rus)
>11th Century - North Sea Empire/Holy Roman Empire(/Kievan Rus)
>12th Century - Angevin Empire/Holy Roman Empire
>13th Century - Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom Of France
>14th Century - Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom Of England
>15th Century - Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom Of England/Portugese Empire
>16th Century - Spanish Empire
>17th Century - Dutch Empire/Kingdom of France/Spanish Empire
>18th Century - British Empire/French Empire
>19th Century - British Empire
>20th Century - British Empire/Germany/France(/USSR)
>21st Century - United Kingdom/France/Germany(/Russia)

>. I didn't include Russia as mentioned in OP
And that's retarded
Russia is much more european than asian (the European part rules over the Asian one, which is mostly a colony of the European part) and is a major element of European history (Seven Years War, Napoleonic Wars, WWs).

>I didn't include Prussia in 18th as it still wasn't as economically successful as France and Britain who both had large navies, colonial empires and well developed and industrial economies (France less so).
You have to remember that in era, Europe was all that mattered
A nation that had no colonies could still be more relevant than a nation that had many, provided it was stronger or more influential in Europe
Prussia was exetremly strong during the Seven Years War, they basically fought most of Europe all alone, and their militarism was admired by all

>I believe Spain had declined too much due to silver inflation and naval lagging to be the most powerful by the 18th.
Spain still had the largest and more powerful colonial empire thorough the 18th century
In Europe (what really mattered) they had declined since the 17th century, but overseas they were still more important than Britain (despite what American movies on the era focused on Britain because 'muh ancestor' can make you believe)
Just look at a map of the Spanish and British Empires in the 18th century

>Furthermore the list is about power overall and not just influence in European politics, hence why Germany isn't in 19th century as they weren't really comparable to British empire
From the 17th century until WW1, Europe was the heart of the world
Everything was just secondary
That's why for exemple, Spain would lose their huge colonial empire just because they got invaded by their neighbour in Europe
Europe was truly the core of everything, destroy a country there and its overseas empire will collapse

>You have to remember that in era, Europe was all that mattered
I'll address this point as this seems to be the bulk of your argument.
Trade with overseas colonies proved extremely lucrative (if you had the right colonies) as evidenced by Britain's economic successes predating the industrial revolution.
Spain's colonial empire lacked the centralisation and robust economic infrastructure that Britain's had. There's also the matter of navies which by that time, Britain and France had superior navies. Also alot of the Spanish empire was underpopulated in North America so territorial size is misleading as American colonists were very numerous and had better economic systems thanks to Scottish economic enlightenment figures.
Also your point about Prussia. I think Prussia performed well in the seven years' war due to good leadership, luck and Britain taking France's attention elsewhere as opposed to sheer military might as i would argue that Austria and France still were more powerful than Prussia.

Now which city would you say was the most important (both economically and culturally) in Europe each century since the 1st?

Rome in ancient time
Paris in middle age
Florence in Renaissance
Paris again in 17th-19th centuries
London in 19th century
Moscow in 20th century

>implying Austria wasn't the most powerful nation in Europe before the French Revolution

Attached: Austrian possessions in Europe before the French Revolution.jpg (233x216, 27K)

I'd argue for Amsterdam in mid 17th century

Rome > constantinople > florence > vienna > paris > london > nyc

>15th Century - Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom Of England/Portugese Empire
>16th Century - Portuguese Empire/Spanish Empire

Portugal was at its' peak in the first half of the 16th century

I feel like Venice should be in there

>USA wasn't the most powerful through the entirety of the 20th century

That's really debatable desu

Maybe between constantinople and florence but venice faded rather quickly

>get BTFO by autistic slavs larping as Germans
>twice

GTFO

Well economically they didn't become dominant until 1924. They did become industrially dominant, but their military lagged behind.

The Dutch were a naval powerhouse in
a time when Naval dominance meant a shit ton.

>Venice
>Faded quickly
No it didn't. It was a dominant trading power for centuries. And keep in mind, starting around 1000 AD, it had around the second largest population in Western Europe and kept that for a considerable time.

the whole concept of "one nation is ranked 1" is silly. Life isn't like a Sid Meyer's video game. the argument could go either way to which nation came into the 1900s stronger

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>but their military lagged behind.
That depends really what we mean by military I'd say. US Navy was absolutely massive during the interwar period, so much so that Hughes used America's Naval construction plans as an argument to help convince the Great Powers to sign a disarmament treaty, lest they wanted an America with an even more monstrous naval force, hell the USA literally sunk over 800,000 tons as a sign of good faith.

Attached: washington naval arms.png (709x846, 407K)

Also forgot to mention the US navy was the 3rd largest in the world by the time America joined the entente in 1917.

Well that is indeed true, however this naval power was brief as by 1939 it had lagged behind once more.
The US also had a fairly small army compared to the other great powers

>21st Century
>not UK/Germany
France has been in a hole for decades. Macron might improve its position, though

>owever this naval power was brief as by 1939 it had lagged behind once more.
I'm fairly certain the USA had the 2nd largest navy in the world by the time Pearl harbour struck. I do agree with land forces being relatively small.
From what I can gather USA had:
>7 carriers + 1 escort
>17 battleships
>18 heavy cruisers
>19 light cruisers
>171 destroyers
>112 submarines
For comparison the IJN:
>8 Carriers
>10 Battleships
>18 Heavy cruisers
>108 destroyers
>63 submarines
Source for USA
navsource.org/Naval/usf.htm

>Thinking Dutch were that strong
>Not Germany in 21st century

Attached: 1490317281918.jpg (250x238, 8K)

forgot to add 18 light cruisers for Japan.

How did the RN compare in 1939?

Not sure because I can only find 1941 info on US navy. But 1939 it was definitely the largest out of the bunch, having twice as many cruisers as the USA I believe.

fuck off you shitskin

Finland.

Well economically they didn't become dominant until 1924

Uhmm.... US was world's biggest economy after 1919.