Was Stalin right all along?
>"We need to industrialise quickly, even if people die, as otherwise we are sitting ducks for invasion"
>Stalin industrialises USSR, turning it from a backwater to a superpower
>Many die
>Nazis invade with plans to kill all Russians
>USSR just manages to push them
If Stalin didn't do what he did the Nazis would probably have won or WW2 would have stalemated and the slavs would have genocided, so was he right to do what he did?
Yeah. Stalin did nothing wrong.
most countries have been able to industrialize just fine without killing millions of their population in the process. also soviet union's rapid industrialization isn't even that unprecedented nor does it mean that similar or even greater progress couldn't have been achieved without mass death and repression. see singapore, japan's meiji restoration etc
I hate godless, communist dogs but stalin did nothing wrong
And how exactly did killing millions help them industrialize?
How many people did Stalin actually kill?
I've been reading a lot about this, and I'm really starting to angle towards lowest estimates, that's is around 10 million counting famine in 30s. It just makes the most sense, from the overall atmosphere of Soviet society at the time.
Some larger death toll, equivalent to something like Khmer Rouge, would cause a far greater disruption to society.
I mean, we know the death toll from purges, we know the death toll from GULAG system, we have a rough estimate about the deaths in famine...add the deaths arising from ethnic persecution like Poles, Chechens, Tatars and so on, but I still can't see how can you reach 20 million, let alone comically huge numbers like 40 or 60 million?
Perhaps by ''victims'' people mean just victims, not dead specifically?
>Perhaps by ''victims'' people mean just victims, not dead specifically?
I mean, many historians leave this pretty vague to be honest.
Roy Medvedev clearly separates victims and dead, but many others don't.
Stalin never killed anyone, the gulags were just work camps, basically prisons where they would still be given adequate conditions to perform the work
The holodomor that stinky wheraboos go on and on about were caused by a famine and was totally unavoidable
The holohoaxes are just mud slung by either the right or left wing.
Rise above, neither the holocaust nor the holodomor happened.
>Nazis would probably have won or WW2
*tips America
*tips Nuclear weapons
Only during the war did the Axis have the delusion they could win. In hindsight, they we're fucked from the beginning. Stalin played a huge part in Axis defeat, but not as big of a roll "Fat Man" and "Little boy".
I assume you focused on the Soviet Union specifically.
He also killed people from outside the Soviet Union. First the people executed or deported from occupied Eastern European territories during 1939-1941. Then you have the second wave of executions and deportations as the USSR occupied Eastern-Europe during 1944-45 and after the war as the Soviet puppet regimes were created.
The Nazis wouldn't have been too far off nuclear weapons, and some of the Wunderwaffe were already very devastating.
>require american lend lease to avoid capitulation
idk man you tell me
I think Hitler knew he was not going to win at the moment when France and England declared a war at Germany.
He was not a stupid man.
they werent even close. Germans had next to no progress on atomic weapons. they were basically still accumulating raw materials and didnt even finish that much
this is a problem that no one seems to adress. you would think with just the sheer amount of people, land, and resources russia has, that industrilazation would not be that difficult of a goal for Russia. But instead, Stalin had to kill millions of his own people just to stay on par with his neighbors. Even today the "Russian superpower" and Russian aggression narratives are very forced and not very believable even though they should be.
Germany couldn't even produce heavy water after 1943, they had no chance of getting a nuke before America
>stalin never killed anyone
The absolute state of tankies
Millions of deaths weren't necessary, but the heavy investment into massive, vertically integrated armaments facilities in the 1930s is definitely a major factor that kept the Soviets in WW2. They were able to outproduce the Germans from their second industrial base in the Urals in 1942, before the vast majority of Lend Lease ever arrived. It was in stark contrast to Russia in WW1, where they struggled equipping their soldiers with the most basic weaponry; the 2 men for every rifle meme is true, but for Tsarist Russia instead.
There is no reason that the USSR should have not been on damn near equal footing with USA in terms of industrial output.
The resources and manpower the USSR was enough to be damn near neck in neck with USA.
Think of what other great leaders could have done with the USSR of the time and you realize Stalin was total shit.
He was good at ruling with an iron first and that isn't even that necessary.
he was a time traveller
>the 2 man one rifle was true for imperial russia
yeah in soviet, it was 4 men 1 rifle
The nazis could not have won WW2 regardless simply due to the fact of who they were led by. Furthermore, as others in this thread have already stated, you can industrialize your nation without killing off millions of your own citizens.
Russia was already industrializing before Stalin took over.
Yes, I focus just on USSR and the territories they annexed.
It seems to me any estimate over roughly 10-15 million dead is just based on wild speculation, and most of it is from the famine in 30s.
The Great Purge was a mistake. Even Stalin admitted it, that's why he killed Yezhov.
The Holodomor was caused by the kulaks. Hoarding and destroying food.
>hey guys, I might have killed a bunch of you, but I did it to save you from Hitler!
>hey guys, now that Hitler is dead, I’m going to start killing you at a rate that makes Hitler look like a fucking nun!
agreed, people unironically believe 60 million which is retarded they count nazi dead soldiers as "victims"
reddit raids are getting boring
Most countries that industrialized didn't do it in just 15-20 years.
IIRC he sold grain from areas with rebellious peasants and used the money from that to buy machinery. Infrastructure was also built with forced labor in places like Siberia.
implying reddit doesn't hate stalin
Fun fact: I'm pretty sure that was because their heavy water production was destroyed by Norwegian saboteurs.
>now that Hitler is dead, I’m going to start killing you at a rate that makes Hitler look like a fucking nun!
The worst mass killings were before the war.
Saying something mildly positive about Stalin on Reddit leads to legions of butthurt Americans and Balts.
oh so youre some lefty discord fags , even wors then
More dead people = faster Industrialization isn't an equation that has any factual support,
Really it's way for people to kinda sorta rationalize in their minds the endless blood on Stalin and Mao's hand.
Presumably they wouldn't be the ones sacrificing their lives to the Pig Iron Gods for more output