Anti-vegan general

>that pic
>you telling people about your eating habits.
that is just ridiculous.

implying this isnt peak aesthetics

animal products are magical foods that contain nutrients that you cannot find from plants

>Please explain how being vegan affects my manliness.

Cultural norms dictate that men must eat meat, because men were the ones that have always acquired meat for the tribe. If you don't eat meat, like men have for ages, you are less manly. It's that simple.

>Look at that vegan bodybuilder on YouTube, forgot his name,
Who? Torre Washington? Brian Turner? Jon Venus? Simnett Nutrition? Vegan Physique? MuscleNMind? Cory McCarthy?
>Cultural norms dictate
AAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHA
You tremendous faggot, you can't be serious
I won't even google it, but imagine that I sarcastically posted the facebook tears and laugh emoji with the ok hand

youtube.com/watch?v=Xec-nlmDHMk

Vegan Chad

Their suffering makes them tastier

>follow cultural norms
>call yourself a man

>All that bro-science

CHAD does calisthenics, eats WATERMELON and fucks KATHERINE while looking Patrick Bateman mode while you sperg about squats, chicken breast and cottage cheese and get ZERO pussy

so you think men dont follow cultural norms? get off my board, cuck
yeah, steroids are vegan aren't they? if i wanted to poison my body with steroids i would have been twice that guys size now.

>men are supposed to be sheep like me
>everyone who's bigger than me is on steroids

I can't really think of any good reasons why anyone should become strictly vegan/vegetarian.

When it comes to nutrition, there is no good reason to eliminate one of the most nutritious food sources we eat. Meat has plenty of protein, fats, vitamins and minerals, and is a great energy source in every way.

When it comes to the environment I still don't see any good reasons why anyone should become a strict vegan/vegetarian. You could easily get meat, eggs and milk trough environmentally friendly sources. Like environmentally friendly farms, hunting wild game and fishing.

When it comes to ethics, I still don't see any good reasons. Eating meat has been a part of nature since the dawn of life, for all kinds of species. As long as you source your meat from ethical farmers, who raise their animals well, and use ethical methods for killing I don't really see the problem.

You could easily support the environment, stay healthy and be ethical while also eating meat. So in the end, the only reason anyone would ever become a vegan/vegetarian would be for the symbolic value. Its a political statement that is shared with everyone trough actions. This is probably why vegans always have to tell people that they are vegan, its not really about the environment, ethics or health, but about the political statement.

calisthenics AND vegan diet? wow, i never came up with such a great way to limit my gains!

Vegan chicks are the easiest to pull.

nah, but I've been doing this long enough to know what a guy on steroids looks like.

>NO, HE GOT THAT BODY FROM EATING WATERMELON AND CARROTS! YOUR JUST JEALOUS!!!1"

>greatest protein sources
>eggs

Literally more fat that protein.
Literally false advertising call eggs nutritious in ANY way.

Hahaha

>There is no good reason to eliminate one of the most nutritious food sources we eat. Meat has plenty of protein, fats, vitamins and minerals, and is a great energy source in every way.

It also causes heart disease, cancer, and other health proglems. Food has to be looked at as a package. If you're in a situation like living in the third world where you're at serious risk of starvation or malnutrition, meat is great. If you live in normal first world conditions, you have to select food based on the pros and cons of eating it. Meat is a bad option compred to legumes, whole grains, nuts, veg, fruits, etc which are good for the body.

Appeal to tradition and appeal to nature are also not ethical justifications.

>didn't even watch the video
>knee-jerk dismissive reaction is STEROIDS

>When it comes to nutrition, there is no good reason to eliminate one of the most nutritious food sources we eat. Meat has plenty of protein, fats, vitamins and minerals, and is a great energy source in every way.
I'd argue that the fat in red meats is the unhealthiest among all whole unprocessed food items
>When it comes to the environment I still don't see any good reasons why anyone should become a strict vegan/vegetarian. You could easily get meat, eggs and milk trough environmentally friendly sources. Like environmentally friendly farms, hunting wild game and fishing.
This is true. However, those are expensive as fuck, to the point where soy and gluten based mock meats are cheaper
>When it comes to ethics, I still don't see any good reasons.
This is bait
>Eating meat has been a part of nature
Appeal to nature fallacy
>since the dawn of life
Appeal to ancestry fallacy
>for all kinds of species.
We don't live like other species though. We have engineering and technology in general, art, medicine, structured societies, moral agency. We do not live like wild animals in any way except eating meat.
>As long as you source your meat from ethical farmers
There exists no such thing
>ethical methods for killing
Oxymoron
>I don't really see the problem.
Hope I helped
Post body
They pulled each other while eating meat and both made gains while strictly vegan
He eats protein powder too dw

so no proof then, just your gut and your feels

The fuck is that?

> men must eat meat, because men were the ones that have always acquired meat for the tribe.

Wouldn't that mean that eating meat that you didn't acquire by killing the animal yourself makes you a woman? Someone else provided it for you

Barely anyone followed vegan diets until this century, yet I don't see people suddenly living to be 150 years old because they eliminated meat from their diet.

Everything is carcinogenic, vegans can't get big without gear, and omnivores live the longest.

f@m, red meats are a class 2 carcinogen. Processed meats are a class 1 carcinogen, in the same category as cigarettes. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>Everything is carcinogenic
"Coconuts falling from tall trees kill people, trucks kill people, so might as well step in front of speeding traffic
>vegans can't get big without gear
Wrong
>and omnivores live the longest.
Wrong

He is much more handsome than the girl though, he could get anyone and he went for that.

Not an argument. If "everything is carcinogenic it doesn't matter lol" is your defense then go take a bath in radioactive waste. Or would you admit that it's probably a good idea to reduce your risk of cancer?

I'll be honest, I'd probably try dog, cat or horse. I mean cows and pigs as we know them evolved from wild animals via breeding just like dogs or cats and horses just do their own damn thing so it's all fair game.

Basically I draw the line at apes. Anything else though is possibly food.

I mean, I wasn't born as part of an omnivorious species to NOT eat meat. Just vary your protein sources for a good spread of other nutritional needs and you're basically set.

What
They are both 9/10

>lets limit our diet and get rid of all the delicious and nutritious foods so that we can possibly live 1 year longer

The girl is pretty mousey and plain

Vegan thread are baits you fucking autist

I'm fully willing to admit that my diet is less ethically sound than a vegetarian's, but I have never understood how vegans are any better than vegetarians. The only arguments I've heard assume that the cows and chickens that provide the milk and eggs are being abused, which is obviously not always the case and can be determined before purchase.

She's my type, what can I say
It's not just their mothers
By buying dairy, you are giving incentive to the dairy industry to impregnate cows (only then do they lactate)
The male offspring are sold as veal, you might as well have bought that.
By buying eggs, you are raising the demand for egg laying hens. Fertilized eggs give you 50% male chicks which ate 99.999% killed

Increased lifespan is great, increased quality of life is better. You may think of quality of life as enjoyment from eating meat, which honestly I would think is sad. I think of quality of life as remaining free of disease into old age. I've had relatives who lived to 90+ but suffered from alzheimers, stroke, and heart conditions and had been in pain for decades. Eating like this guy is your best chance of preventing that

Again, just assuming that whatever farm you're purchasing from is evil.
Damn, vegans are fucking dumb.

Wow, your a special type of retarded if you truly think that not eating meat eliminates you from getting disease. And limiting your diet, therefore limiting the amount of restaurants you can go out to, is decreasing quality of life, especially if your doing it to seek attention.

>not realizing that more vegans = more meat for us non-vegans

Lol what
What dairy farm do you think does NOT kill the baby bulls and what egg farm do you think does NOT kill the baby chicks
Seriously name one
Nah, more vegans means less demand, this means less incentive for gov't subsidies, this means prices go up. You should hate us. Or join us, that's an option too.

To add on to this, vegans have to spend a lot more money if they want to make as much gains as a non-vegan. Enjoy wasting your money, fags!

Not just not eating meat but replacing it with healthy foods. When eaten infrequently, a trivial amount of meat in the diet is probably negligible, just as with cookies and ice cream and anything else. Focusing your daily eating around a variety of whole plant foods is the healthy way to go though.

>Cultures with the longest lifespan are omnivores
>Cultures with the lowest amount of disease are omnivores
Huh

>lentils
>more expensive than meat per kg or g protein or kcal
Pick one and only one

Meat consumption is going up, you vegans are not making a difference. Pretty funny how you think that meat will be made illegal or something, most people dont give a shit about your "ethical" diet.

Every farm also sells off their cows and hens to meat producers after a certain age or when their production drops. No milk or egg company could afford not to.

Why are you so personally attached to meat to where you feel the need to defend its honor like this? Did something happen when you were a child?

Source: Your arse
>What are the Okinawans
>Meat consumption is going up
Because population in 3rd world countries is rising and so does the median income.
Per capita meat consumption in first world countries is dropping

It's almost like varied diets help solve most problems our bodies could face in our lifetimes.

...you're strengthening my point now. Unless you're vegan too.

>Per capita meat consumption in first world countries is dropping
As op said, its a trend that will die out eventually. I give you 5 years tops before you go back to meat.

>Food has to be looked at as a package.

Yeah, and vegans don't look at food as a package. They see that red meat is bad, and then throw out all types of meat and animal products, although they have only looked at the red meat package, not the white meat package, not the seafood package, not the milk package, not the egg package etc. You can eat meat without eating red meat. There exists chicken, fish, sea food and many other types of meat that aren't red, as well as milk, cheeses and eggs which are animal products. But a vegan throws it all out after only evaluating the pros and cons of red meat.

>I'd argue that the fat in red meats is the unhealthiest among all whole unprocessed food items

Again, there exists other types of meat and animal products.

>This is true. However, those are expensive as fuck, to the point where soy and gluten based mock meats are cheaper

Take into account all the expensive exotic shit and the supplements vegans use to sustain their diets, the cost is probably the same.

>This is bait

Definition of ethics: moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

Why is it unethical to kill an animal for your own gain? There are numerous reasons why mass killing humans is unethical, main one being that it would be against the interests of the species, but in some cases human killing is in the interest in the species/society, and would therefore be arguably an ethical action. You have decided that killing animals is against the moral principles that you have decided to follow. I don't follow your moral principles, and neither does society at large, so please tell me why you have chosen those moral principles. I am trying to think of arguments for why you would choose those moral principles, but I can't think of any.

Again, there are other types of meat and animal products.

>its a trend that will die out eventually
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan
Stock up on jerky user, the times are changing
>I give you 5 years tops before you go back to meat.
Even if I do (which I won't because I don't crave meat, it now reisters as a carcass instead of food), 5 more vegans will take my place
>Take into account all the expensive exotic shit and the supplements vegans use to sustain their diets, the cost is probably the same.
My B12 costs 6 cents a day, my D3 costs 9. 15 cents a day
Legumes, pasta and oats aren't exotic. You don't have to eat avocado and quinoa to be vegan

The other meat packages, eggs, dairy, etc have most of the same pitfalls as red meat. They're seen as a better alternative for people because they're less bad, but better than a piece of chicken would be a bowl of lentils.

Japan, Switzerland, Singapore, Italy.
God vegans are dumb.

>the countries with the highest GDP and the best healthcare systems live the longest
"wow"

Why is it unethical to kill something that can suffer? Also, why the fuck should I care about vegan ethics?

Not an argument. Okinawans have healthcare too.

>Okinawans have healthcare too.
"Not an argument"
>Why is it unethical to kill something that can suffer?
That's like asking me why 2+2 is 4, I can't help you

When you look at these countries, you see that meat still causes health problems there, meaning other factors are in play when looking at their overall health relative to other countries.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5448603/
>After adjustments for multiple confounders, a significantly increased relative risk of colorectal cancer was observed in the highest versus lowest quartile of the intake of total and red meat among men; the estimated hazard ratios were 1.36 (95% CI: 1.03, 1.79) for total meat (P for trend = 0.022), and 1.44 (95% CI: 1.10, 1.89) for red meat (P for trend = 0.009)

>Italy
>highest gdp
>best health care
Topkek

I'm proving that your argument has no bearing.
>Do you even debate?

>Lean red meats are: • An excellent source of high biological value protein, vitamin B12, niacin, vitamin B6, iron, zinc and phosphorus • A source of long-chain omega-3 polyunsaturated fats, riboflavin, pantothenic acid, selenium and possibly also vitamin D • Mostly low in fat and sodium • Sources of a range of endogenous antioxidants and other bioactive substances including taurine, carnitine, carnosine, ubiquinone, glutathione and creatine.

ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1053&context=hbspapers

These are the pros of red meat, as well as it being incredibly fucking delicious, and one of the most calorie dense foods.

>In the case of red meat, the classification is based on limited evidence from epidemiological studies showing positive associations between eating red meat and developing colorectal cancer as well as strong mechanistic evidence.
>Limited evidence means that a positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer but that other explanations for the observations (technically termed chance, bias, or confounding) could not be ruled out.

who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

Limited evidence. hmm

>WHO doesn't find enough evidence yet some schmuck on Veeky Forums whose idea of understanding studies is jumping to the conclusion however does.
I love this website

So overeating is the problem, ok then portion control is the solution.

Yes, and did the same low effort turd. Isn't it fun?

>I should have to put in a large amount of effort to deconstruct a low effort point.
Are you retarded?

>go against the flow
>become a literal omega that few want to be even associated with

>You could easily get meat, eggs and milk trough environmentally friendly sources. Like environmentally friendly farms, hunting wild game and fishing.
>environmentally friendly farms
There literally isn't enough space on the planet for this to work.
>hunting wild game and fishing
Do you think that 7 billion people could live off of just hunting and fishing?

>food contains nutrients
Again, it's a package. Ideally you'd want a food that gives nutrients and doesn't increase your risk of dying from chronic disease like red meat does. Even the leanest of red meats is bad for heart health by means other than fat and cholesterol.
nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n5/full/nm.3145.html?foxtrotcallback=true
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25439662

>limited evidence from the most limited form of research
>strong mechanistic evidence

Well my absolutist, no-context friend, that's what happens when you try to argue with an air-tight, iron-clad way of life like veganism. You can try to fling turds at the wall to see if they stick, but the wall will never fall.
But let me make it easier.
Name one (1) nutrient that omnis get and vegans can't get cheaper.

>I won't even google it, but imagine that I sarcastically posted the facebook tears and laugh emoji with the ok hand
>>>reddit

>Italy
Italians live longer because they eat less animal fats and more olive oil and nuts

They can't live off vegan either calorie per acre grains are garbage tier it's best to improve the current farm management a la polyface farms methods.

>Italians
>don't consume shitloads of fatty pork
>don't consume shitloads of wine
Hmmm

Calcium
B12
Iron
Zinc

There's 4 (FOUR)

>eating disgusting shit tier filler foods all the time
>caring about irrelevant lower life forms
>latching on to memes about health or environmentalism to justify this
>internally hate yourself and thus try to justify your pathetic existence to others

vegans, not even once

>They can't live off vegan
Why not?

I dont really care about ethics at all but it is healthier. Like I wish cows and other mammals wouldnt have to die but it seems like that is never going to change. The best counter argument ive seen is that I have to take 1 vitamin which I can pin into my ass once a month and not have to worry about anymore. Also its hilarious how people use that as justification to do stupid shit like drink GOMAD. If you really are set in your ways why not eat 80% plant based and like 20% meat so you get the stuff you "need"? They never do though they just go back to eating cheeseburgers. Anti vegans are SJW tier mental gymnasts.

Read 2 words further ? You can kill off 1/2 off the earth's population and do it then again seems as though Veeky Forums vegans do want to do that by wanting to kill middleeasterners Africans Indians Chinese and the obese

>iron

lolol have you heard of spinach, beans etc.

fucken meatcucks

>eating disgusting shit tier filler foods all the time
I bet you weigh 350 lbs
>caring about irrelevant lower life forms
LMAO wgaf about retarded people? they're lower life forms than me, so I should be allowed to eat them.
>latching on to memes about health or environmentalism to justify this
Facts and science = memes. Ok, gotcha.
>internally hate yourself and thus try to justify your pathetic existence to others
You're projecting so hard right now.

>calorie per acre grains are garbage tier
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

My argument is why anyone would personally become a vegan, and my conclusion is that it is a political statement. Because personally, you as an individual could do all those things in the current societies we live in.

But its clear from the way you speak that its not about a personal choice, its about everyone becoming vegans, and the reason you are vegan is a political statement where you hope to convert more people to veganism. That is why you argue from a global perspective where everyone becomes vegan.

>There literally isn't enough space on the planet for this to work.

There is enough space, the planet is fucking huge. But it doesn't matter, I am not arguing in a world where everyone is vegan, I am arguing in a world where a few select people have chosen to become vegan, and given them alternatives to veganism.

>Do you think that 7 billion people could live off of just hunting and fishing?

Veganism is about completely removing meat and animal products from your diets. When you are not a vegan it doesn't mean that you only live off of meat and animal products, you still eat vegetables, fruit etc. 7 billion people could easily include meat in their diet trough only hunting and fishing, but it would be a much rarer part of your diet.

All the studies I've read show no change in longevity or health if corrected for fats and fiber . So I don't see anything wrong with being an omnivore

I bet you weigh 350 lbs
>nope, and I look better than your shit tier vegan physique too
LMAO wgaf about retarded people? they're lower life forms than me, so I should be allowed to eat them.
>sure, i don't give a fuck you pussy bitch. go cry about suffering in the corner some more
Facts and science = memes. Ok, gotcha.
>if you actually had an education you'd know the science isnt there to support your claims but ur a dumbshit so
You're projecting so hard right now.
>spend all day spamming Veeky Forums
>im projecting

>3 oz spinach - 2.7 mg of iron
>3 oz beef - 2.2 mg of iron
Damn, meatfags unequivocally BTFO...

Not an argument

That doesn't even look edible