ITT: Veeky Forums memes you fell for

sounds to me like you don't even lift.

>OHP doesn't build shoulders

>curls gets the girls

>Stay Natty roids are dangerous

The ph uL routine

>glutes for sloots

> don't increase the weight bro just do 30+ sets of 135

You're a fucking retard if you think this is in anyway a viable option.

tell me RIGHT NOW what's wrong with starting strength

>heavy skwats and deaths are all you need for core
This is true if you brace your core correctly
>you dont need to isolate arms
It depends how big you want your arms
>squats are a good glute builder
Uhhhh they are? You should try lifting for more than 2 months before posting here

People think it'll make them gain mass rather than using it to train their body to better recruit motor units and make their lifts more efficient while raising their strength through noob gains.

Oh fuck off, you people are fucking cancer. Stop trying to trick noobs into wasting their time.

>>strength = size bro

strength = size is a motherfucking fact for natural lifters. Take your incline bench from 185x6 to 240x8 and tell me you haven't gained any size. You're literally a retard if you disagree with this.

>>OHP for big shoulders brah
anyone who doesn't press regularly will have shit delts, guaranteed. Maybe try lifting more than baby weight on this exercise and you'll see some gains. Get 165-185 for reps

>>Starting Strength for gains breh

hurr durr starting strength is a meme bro xD
do this high volume PPL routine instead so you can take 1.5 years to get the same results as SS would give you in 6 months xD

meant for this fucking idiot

Does OHP not give big traps? What are you talking about? It’s way better for huge traps that shrugs.

>did ss for 3 years
>well above 1/2/3/4 at this point, but was still dyel
>switched to u/l program after wasting 3 years on ss
>making noticeable upper body gains, despite only doing this program for 3 months due to vastly increased volume compared to ss
>my proportions are starting to even out, instead of being straight T rex dyel Demogorgon mode

Strength DOES NOT equal size after a certain point, especially for a natty. Unless you're an aspiring powerlifter, lifting above 1/2/3/4 is just a waste of your time and a recipe for injury for the long run. It's better to maintain the same weight after a certain point, while increasing your volume so you actually look good instead of looking like a bloated faggot piece of shit that Veeky Forums so idolizes.

>squats are a good glute builder

this is true though

all these things are true

This has to be a troll. SS was designed to last 3-6 months for the average person. Linear progression gives diminishing returns really fast.

>strength = size is a motherfucking fact for natural lifters. Take your incline bench from 185x6 to 240x8 and tell me you haven't gained any size. You're literally a retard if you disagree with this.

You can litterally gain on anything as long as you're putting weight on the bar occasionally and doing relatively high rep and low rest workouts yeah.
Pure powerlifting and 5x5 for complete beginners is a meme that has lead many wannabe lifters to fatassery and away from lifting.
you don't have to fucking mainline strength gains as fast as possible. That doesn't help you and is only good as a cheap ego boost. One that will crash hard against the wall of reality when your gains slow to a crawl, your joints are screaming, and you realize that you have some kind of fuck up in your lift that you didn't notice or care about because you were DOIN DA BIG LEEFTS!

Are you not gaining strength when u do this?

One way ticket to t-rex mode, doesn't handle stalls exceptionally well, you don't do enough deads, etc.

You're not supposed to do starting strength for three years. That's why it's called starting strength

>Pure powerlifting and 5x5 for complete beginners is a meme that has lead many wannabe lifters to fatassery and away from lifting. you don't have to fucking mainline strength gains as fast as possible. That doesn't help you and is only good as a cheap ego boost. One that will crash hard against the wall of reality when your gains slow to a crawl, your joints are screaming, and you realize that you have some kind of fuck up in your lift that you didn't notice or care about because you were DOIN DA BIG LEEFTS!

this is the equivalent of blaming the car company when someone gets into an accident on the highway instead of the person driving the car.
if you're dumb enough to lift more than you can handle or not use the right form, or go on a 1000 calorie bulk when you're already fat then thats your fault for being an idiot. It's not the fault of the program.
Rep ranges have no difference in outcome on muscle gains as long as total volume over time is increased. You can get big off of sets of 2 if you really wanted to. Hell, you'd actually get bigger off of 5x5 than the supposed "hypertrophy rep range" 3x8.

DISCLAIMER
*****************
PROGRESSION IS NOT STRENGTH TRAINING
STRENGTH TRAINING IS ALWAYS PROGRESSION

Rest assured, this will be the sixth time I have ran GVT, and I have become exceedingly efficient at it.

Hypertrophy linear progression != Strength Training.

Hypertrophy linear progression is a must when training volume but is a completely different concept than OVERLOADING your CNS to handle heavier poundages.

Repping moderate weight 10x10 @ 50% 1RM will not have same impact on your CNS as repping 8x3 @ 95% 1RM or 1x1 @ 110% 1RM.

Linear progression on a maintenance calories gives diminishing returns really fast.
When your calories progress in a linear fashion, the returns continue for quite some time, add in periodization and you will be busy for the next decade.

What do you look like again? ;_;

0% upper body volume.
100% lower body volume.

Bench, ohp, chin ups, power cleans = 0 %

>bloated faggot piece of shit that Veeky Forums so idolizes
leave Isley out of this

don't forget dips and the part where Rip says to do curls at the end if you want and includes a small section on performing the barbell curl

actually, volume is what matters most
you realize lotus looks 10x better than you faggot? and he's most likely stronger too

>STARTING strength
>3 years

Kettlebells
>unless I was retarded and was using them incorrectly

>1x1@ 110%
Wtf?

Lotus' max is 110% of his max every time he maxes.

he's a maxdaddy

it's possible to have a conservative 1RM estimate, which is the given workweight for a training cycle. 110 % is PR city boi

A failure rep intended to shock your CNS, specifically for strength training.

>actually, volume is what matters most

and guess what, if you add 40 pounds to your weighated chin up, you've added volume...lol...

> strength doesn't equal size
strength = size is a motherfucking fact for natural lifters. Take your incline bench from 185x6 to 240x8 and tell me you haven't gained any size. You're literally a retard if you disagree with this.

> OHP doesn't build big shoulders
anyone who doesn't press regularly will have shit delts, guaranteed. Maybe try lifting more than baby weight on this exercise and you'll see some gains. Aim for 165-185 for reps on standing barbell and 90-120 on dumbells

> Starting Strength / other beginner programs suck for gains

If you expect to look impressive after your first year of lifting you're in for a rude awakening.
The stupidest part is that the people who say SS or other programs like it are memes are very quick to recommend some half-baked PPL dogshit that "focuses on aesthetics" that they found on bodybuilding.com that will take an extra 1.5-2 years to deliver the same results you'd get from 6-8 months of SS.

i want to know everything you know

>A failure rep intended to shock your CNS, specifically for strength training.

>8x3 @ 95%

layne norton? i love your program, also i have no knees now

>just bulk bro

Bulking is the biggest meme on Veeky Forums. Pathetic that you’d let your diet collapse just so you can become fat with behind the guise of putting on muscle.

Do you know what volume is? So many variables left out of these oversimplified statements, soo many.

Has it occurred to you that a lifter can be coached to improve their bench press technique and add poundage without adding and SIZE at all? This is not a rhetorical question and I would like an answer.

Nobody was talking about weighted chinups... Bench press does not increase your size, just because your poundage increases. Sorry yo burst your bubble man. The best developed chests I've ever seen are on guys who don't bench heavy, they do moderate volume.

Like I said in the disclaimer, don't confuse progression with strength training. Strength training deals specifically with your CNS, while hypertrophy training does not.

OHP does build big shoulders when doing... VOLUME and hitting all heads of the delts appropriately.

Seen lots of guys on this site look good after one year of lifting, lots. Sometimes, just sometimes you can have a balanced split which includes compounds and hypertrophy and keep making good progress. SS is good is a STRENGTH PROGRAM so I don't know why you are mentioning it alongside AESTHETICS...

Idk. My mate does lmao2pl8 for bench and NEVER does arms. They still look like noodles.

>Rest assured, this will be the sixth time I have ran GVT, and I have become exceedingly efficient at it.

What is your routine like for GVT? I tried it but my joints hated me after 2 weeks so I switched back to my normal ULxPPLx.

DUH PROGRAM IS DA GREETEST!

FUCKING NEWBS DONT KNOW ANY BETTER YOU BLATHERING FUCKING RETARD
Even worse the people it's being shilled to are fundamentally untrained and know nothing about how their body works and will take the complete bare bones idiocy being shilled as fact as the only way to do things.

That's what all newb friendly programs are supposed to do. Make damned sure they don't fuck up.
An introduction to something that is terrible for them on a conceptual basis is still bad.

Also, It's been scientifically proven and it's been noted for multiple fucking recorded generations that a hypertrophy range with modearately heavy poundages will not only build muscle but strength and much more valuable strength endurance.

>A failure rep intended to shock your CNS, specifically for strength training.

Yeah, if you're training alone, or even with a spot...that's called fucking suicide.

I have never heard a coach of note tell anyone to train to failure when strength training. Not ever.
It not only doesn't help you much when it comes to lifting it is fucking deadly.

>Do you know what volume is? So many variables left out of these oversimplified statements, soo many.

Volume is workload aka amount of work the muscle does. 3 sets of 6 with 25lbs attached on a weighted chin up is less volume than 3 sets of 6 with 95lbs. This is a fact.

Pls tell me which routine is best for aesthetic as a natty lifter.
PPL?

I think volume just means sets x reps, you're talking about "tonnage" or "total work done" or something

Work is force x distance = mass x acceleration (-9.8m/s^2) x distance, power is work/time.

Read the archive.

This. Run a low caloric surplus and stay lean.

It varies, find 2 contra exercises for each body part which suit your physiology and run with it.

Sorry you aren't on that level of training.

Exactly my point.

You think that you gotta get bigger to add weight to your chin-ups? You can improve technique, recomp or just do more weighted chin-ups and keep adding weight. When you specialize you get better at something. As for where size comes into this your point is very incomplete.

LPP or ULUUL

Volume is volume. I said what I said.

Please keep terms within the context of the original discussion. Broadening the scope will only lead to a cyclical discussion which I am not interested in on any level.

>Has it occurred to you that a lifter can be coached to improve their bench press technique and add poundage without adding and SIZE at all? This is not a rhetorical question and I would like an answer.

Yes. This is known as peaking. Special techniques used by powerlifters that includes deliberate shorTening the ROM.

>Like I said in the disclaimer, don't confuse progression with strength training. Strength training deals specifically with your CNS, while hypertrophy training does not.

no one is referring specifically to powerliftijg strength techniques when they say strength = size.
It's just the simple notion that the amount of weight you lift matters a lot. Yeah, its no secret that raising your 1RM alone wont efficiently build size with out doing the necessary volume to support it.

> Bench press does not increase your size, just because your poundage increases. Sorry yo burst your bubble man. The best developed chests I've ever seen are on guys who don't bench heavy, they do moderate volume

I really don't understand your train of thought here... increading the weight on your bench won't increase your size? Are you high?
Increasing the weight you move on for reps will build size.... this is basic shit...
those guys that you say do moderate volume, im gonna assume that you mean like 5 sets of 10-15 with 225? well you really think that they wouldnt see any size gains from building it up to 5 sets of 10-15 with 255? They would 100% see gains. They got stronger to do that.

Therefore, strength = size.

Special strength techniques made for powerlifting that are MEANT and INTENDED to have you peak while NOT gaining size =/= size

LOL

>Exactly my point.

>You think that you gotta get bigger to add weight to your chin-ups? You can improve technique, recomp or just do more weighted chin-ups and keep adding weight. When you specialize you get better at something. As for where size comes into this your point is very incomplete.

What the fuck are you smoking? You honestly believe that you won't gain a single ounce of muscle by raising your workload on an excercise?

>Sorry you aren't on that level of training.
You're right.
I'm not.
And to be honest, I don't want to be.
I as a natural would rather leave a few in the tank so that I can go hard the next time and not completely fry my body so I can't really do anything.
And you know...not die.

I'm convinced hes trolling at this point. he's already said you won't see any size gains from increasing your weighted chin ups from 25 to 95

Nope, this is known as coaching plain and simple. Nothing to do with MUHH POWERLIFTING. So many kids I've helped in the gym have increases their working sets by 20-45lbs with 20-30 minutes of coaching, implementing changes to suit their physiology better for the movement.

Peaking involves periodization. So nope once again. Stop parroting. Parrot.

Once again don't know where powerlifting has come into this discussion on any level. Strength training is a very broad spectrum.

>It's just the simple notion that the amount of weight you lift matters a lot...
Can you complete that sentence please?

>Yeah, its no secret that raising your 1RM alone wont efficiently build size with out doing the necessary volume to support it.
But doing the necessary volume without strength training will increase your size, that's what you fail to understand.

The more weight you add to your bench press the more other muscles in your body contribute to move the load.

You are advocating exactly what I am saying. Volume hypertrophy training will make you bigger, it is not strength training which involves your CNS.

There will be linear progression with volume hypertrophy training BUT relative to how much more weight you are moving and the SIZE you have gained it can never be considered STRENGTH training, because the increase in progression is minimal compared to someone who strength trains.

That's why bodybuilders don't train for strength, they volume train for linear progression.

The reading comprehension on this site, never changes.

>You can recomp...
You can gain more than an ounce of muscle during re-composition.

>I don't want to be.
That's fair man, your goals are your goals. To each their own. No idea what natural has to do with this on any level though? People who attain elite level training and implement appropriate techniques to progress can't be natural?
That program is squat specific so just use the safety bars and descend slowly.

>when THE BUGEZ does it he's a god but when the most aesthetic natty on Veeky Forums does it he is a retard.
intredasting.

>People who attain elite level training and implement appropriate techniques to progress can't be natural?
Yes.
That is correct.

Geared athletes are not even human anymore.

Caloric surplus will provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95

Will a caloric maintenance provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95?

Will a caloric deficit provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95?

Assuming the rep range stays the same?

Trolling is making oversimplified statements and expecting anons to drink the kool-aid. Think about the process of gaining size.

So based on your logic a natural can never attain elite level lifts or implement elite level training with appropriate techniques?

>lift for 1 year
>start telling people what's just a fitness "meme"

>So based on your logic a natural can never attain elite level lifts or implement elite level training with appropriate techniques?

Yes.

...

You realize that your post is tacit agreement with me correct?

GVT, the real deal, is BONE CRUSHING SOUL DESTROYING EFFORT.
That is real elite shit.
That is a cream of the crop seperated from the chafe elite program
That's not some beginner friendly natural level stuff.
True genetic elites who are healthy, well trained, well taken care of, and most of all had access to the worlds best drug stacks were outright fucking destroyed by that program.

Guys who would have, if they never ever touched a fucking drug in their life, would have outlifted truly hardworking normals who's spent their entire lives lifting were broken by that program

Only the elite of the elite and a few of the lucky were able to step out of that program as a powerhouse.

The german volume training that is passed around now is a toy for children compared to the real deal.

The basics of anything work.
Slapping ELITE on basic knowledge is utterly retarded.
Elite is called elite because it's advanced nature is only able to comprehended or even used by people who're blessed and or put in the work and made the sacrifices.
Period.

>Like I said in the disclaimer, don't confuse progression with strength training. Strength training deals specifically with your CNS, while hypertrophy training does not.
SS and similar programs are strength training to get you started. Get your motor units all recruited for lifts to improve your hypertrophy later. Build a foundation for your temple of gains.

Never ceases to amaze me how consistently moronic SS’s detractors are.

It’s almost as if they’re acting purely on an anti-authority impulse.

>SS and similar programs are strength training to get you started. Get your motor units all recruited for lifts to improve your hypertrophy later. Build a foundation for your temple of gains.

Stupid.
This will never not be stupid.

1x1@110% was being referred to as ELITE STRENGTH TRAINING NOT GVT. The rest of your post is moot due to poor reading comprehension.

So you spent 3 years getting stronger and then found when you focused on hypertrophy you could make gains faster because of the strength you built.

Yet for some reason you don’t think building that strength was beneficial.

>you don't need a caloric surplus to get gains bro, just eat right and lift

memes

Fell for the ol' MUH COMPOUNDS meme. The real trick is you can do both.

based blonde haired nigger BTFOing those newbs ITT. Seriously though, good to have you back posting lad

Way too oversimplified. I guarantee you you won't build muscle if you only increase the reps/sets you do.
If pure muscle gain is your goal then your need to balance these two, otherwise you will end up with suboptimal gains.

What do you think noob gains are? Almost all of it is in motor unit recruitment as your body adjusts to lifting heavier and heavier things. It taxes your CNS and builds a little muscle but won't really give you gains.

And that's why beginner programs focus on the same thing: building strength by training the CNS will progressively increasing weight on low rep sets.

It's literally the foundation of making your lifting more efficient in the future and allows you to lift heavier weight so you aren't trying to get hypertrophy lifts done with just the bar.

Muscle composition is oversimplified? Genetic composition is oversimplified? Muh bad Dr. Mengle.

Caloric surplus will provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95

Will a caloric maintenance provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95?

Will a caloric deficit provide size gains while increasing your weighted chinups from 25 to 95?

Assuming the rep range stays the same?

Trolling is making oversimplified statements and expecting anons to drink the kool-aid. Think about the process of gaining size.

Anybody gonna answer these questions? Anybody? Just waiting for answers to these questions which require a basic understanding of the human body and basic resistance training.

this is the guy you're arguing with atm, just so you know

Claiming that the only thing required in order to efficiently build muscle is to damage them so that they need to repair is oversimplified. No actually it's just wrong.

As if I didn't know lotus, gtfo newfag

>tfw still a newfag after browsing Veeky Forums for 8 years
wew

>Sometimes, just sometimes you can have a balanced split which includes compounds and hypertrophy and keep making good progress.

Anybody gonna answer these questions? Anybody? Just waiting for answers to these questions which require a basic understanding of the human body and basic resistance training.

I know you can read, so is it just self importance at this point which makes you respond?

Yeah somehow after 8 years you still act as if you knew some super secret information because you know who one of the few relevant trips is

Forgot link.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140

starting strength is great for noob gains.

The question is entirely irrelevant to what I replied to you with.

>strength = size bro

post skellingtons benching 400lbs

>changing technique is peaking

Am I getting trolled here?

Here is a link that your can read in order to find out why your statement was oversimplified:
renaissanceperiodization.com/training-volume-landmarks-muscle-growth/

The question regards how diet impacts recovery and growth with resistance training which is directly relevant to what you replied to me with.

Stating diet and resistance training are the key factors to muscular growth is not an oversimplification.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140

You are making muscular growth over-complex, probably due to reasons and a lifestyle I cannot relate to.

Sorry Eugene.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140
VS
renaissanceperiodization.com/training-volume-landmarks-muscle-growth/

I'll pass m8. I'll pass.

let me guess he keeps his bench reps between 3 and 5?

It's written by a doctor with a lot more understanding of "basic human body"' than you.
The fact that you consider an article on pubmed relevant just because it's on there shows how clueless you are. The site is barely better than google.

How do you increase the overload in a gvt-like routine?