Loose skin

Agreed. I feel the same way about people who survive a heroin addiction. I'm glad they get diseases like Hep C from dirty needles. Even though I should realize that these are not bad people so much as sick people—stated differently, they have deep rooted psychological issues that compel them to engage in high risk behavior that is deleterious to their health—I'm a petty asshole with a tiny penis who needs to express his unfounded feelings of superiority by leaving hateful comments on an Ecuadorian petting zoo appreciation forum. Fuck those junkies!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to clean my fedora and add to my /mlp/ adult fanfic folder.

>I also walk all over them and make them do what I want since I'm more intimidating.

I've helped a bunch of people lose shitloads of weight with fasting, and the worst case of loose skin I've seen was a 440lb fatass who dropped to 180 in less than a year and his stomach skin is loose if he tugs on it. But standing there the average person wouldn't notice.

And he's the WORST case of loose skin in theses weight loss cases

That 440lb dude had a fraternal twin who was 'only' 320lbs and he lost weight over a long period of time using calorie restriction and he required cosmetic surgery to take up the loose skin.

>implying fasting isn't restricting calories.

>fasting isn't restricting calories.
Seriously,whats the difference,fellas?

Fasting IS calorie restriction, but on a different level and utilizing biological pathways effectively leading to a completely different metabolic end.

Daily calorie restriction leads to a sustained depression in basal metabolic rate, lethargy, tiredness, lack of motivation, and increased perception of hunger

Fasting does not alter the basal metabolic rate, and triggers an upregulation of the central nervous system leading to increased spontaneous activity and perceived energy levels.

typicaly most resources reccomend a 500 calorie daily deficit or 3500 calories per week. Fasting two days a week in most adult males will result in more than 4000 calorie loss for the week. WITH the added benefit of decreased insulin load and epigenetic pressure on mitochondria for fat metabolism.

>what's the difference
There isn't a difference. Fasting is just easier and has metabolic benefits over CICO restriction.

Holy fuck that took you six years?

The difference is either less food or NO food?
Absolutely no food,or goofy liquid diet?
Very new to Veeky Forums.

A liquid diet is not a fast, that's a liquid diet

Fasting is the complete abstention of all calories while drinking only water. Otherwise known as a "water fast"

there are "juice fasts" which are no better than drinking sugar water metabolically

And there are "fat fasts" which are for all intents and purposes virtually indistinguishable from water fasts metabolically speaking, just in that they provide calories extraneously instead of from your fat reserves.

I'm on a similar timeline. When you have that much skin there is a "why cut any more?" aspect.

I cut down a lot and ended up with a lot of loose skin(but some of it is fat, don't think you have lost it all)

I ended up putting on 20 lbs of fat with some muscle last winter and after cutting it down this summer with massive amounts of low-moderate cardio (slow running which peaked at 66-68 miles per week). The skin is much tighter than it was before.

Light intermittent fasting does seem to help this time. I skip breakfast and wait until 12:30pm to each lunch.

Forgot to mention I replaced my "pull" routine with only pullups and crunches alternated with minimal rest until I wanted to die to overtrain abs and get some lats to pull the skin.

L O L
PERFECT FORM MY DUDE
INNOCUOUS

How's your sophomore year of highschool going

How long of a fast? On/off days?
Is there any prep?
Doesn't sound healthy.
I admit I know nothing

>How long of a fast? On/off days?
However long you want.
16:8 - eat during an 8 hour window every day and consume no calories the rest.
20:4 - same but 4 hour eating window
OMAD - only one meal a day, hard to maintain daily but good for weekends where you don't want to completely fast
One or Two Day - One or two days of fasting a week, either concurrently or separate.
Alternate Day - Eat however you want one day, fast the next, repeat
Extended - Fasting for longer than 2 days. I strongly caution my clients to limit it to two weeks max. And only that long if they display signs of metabolic syndrome
>is there any prep?
no... you literally just stop eating.

>Doesn't sound healthy.
That's not what the medical literature says.
I've used fasting to help dozens of people lose metric shitloads of weight and not a single one had any adverse reaction to it. On the contrary I have a 100% success rate with sustained weight loss and nearly 100% success rate curing all instances of metabolic syndrome related disease in my clients. The only resistant case was a lady over 50 with type 2 diabetes for more than 30 years. But she did substantially reduce her insulin from 70 or 80 units a day to 10 and her metformin to 250mg once per day from 2grams spread over the day.

The most weight anyone has gained back was 15 lbs, the 440lb fatass who made it down to 180, came back up to 195 after his fasting cycles and has been rock stable at 190 ever since

How does training work on a fasting day? I'd prefer to fast on the weekend (1 day) but also intend to lift sat/sun with my new program

>The only resistant case was a lady over 50 with type 2 diabetes for more than 30 years
Taht doesn't count,medical condtion and all.
>16:8 - eat during an 8 hour window every day and consume no calories the rest.
I think thats what Terry Crews does. He's probably 50 and is in great shape.
>OMAD-Did that often for a few years,but out of laziness,and a Gyro and fries and 2 cans of coke is probably a bad choice.(was in shape then.

THANKS FOR THE INFO!
Think I'll try the 16:8 deal,I usually don't eat for a few hours before bed anyway.

i have been fasting for 7 days now. i feel fine. hungry of course but no hunger pains just regular (i really want diner) hunger. though 50% of the time i dont even feel it.

take some salt and potassium in your water and you wont get dizzy,light headed, Nauseous. lack of salt is what causes that not fasting. to be honest not eating doesnt really do anything besides getting you hungry now and then. there are no other negative effects.

NOTE:
if you have never fasted the first 2-3 days are hell since you go into withdrawal from your food/sugar addiction. like an actual drug kind of like withdrawal.

i have fasted before so i dont really notice it anymore. just get a little more hungry on the first 2 days and after that its just kinda hungry sometimes and very hungry now and then.

When I work with people I generally have them stick to cardio and light weight training during fasted states that are beyond the 24 hour mark. Particularly when they're starting out. We'll do the heavy lifts during their feeding cycles.

Personally I've been keto and fasting so long I have no problem going hard and heavy 5 or 6 days deep into a fast. But if I do go nuts and do a hard day where I go right up to failure I typically break the fast after so i can get some raw materials for repair.

Would you reccomend resistance training/cardio when fasted or during the eating window?
I'm doing 16/8.

it doesn't work so well.

>Taht doesn't count,medical condtion and all.
She's just one of a dozen+ diabetics I've trained. She's the only one who didn't reverse/cure her diabetes. The only thing I can attribute it to was the fact that she was a poorly managed diabetic for so god damn long that she had beta cell die-off. The 30-something and under males who were all diabetic had complete reversal of their diabetic symptoms within 3 or 4 cycles of two week fasts

you're literally retarded

>100% cure rate

sure. because you can drop clients who don't adhere to the protocol.

>admits a failure

so, not 100%.

I've never dropped a client and I've never had a client drop me.

I spend 3 or 4 hours going over the medical literature and discussing the protocol with them in painful detail before we even begin. I tell them to not even bother wasting their time or my time if they aren't committed to stop shoveling food in their mouth.

Furthermore, I only train people who come to me for help. Essentially friends and family of people I've already helped so they already know what the schtik is before coming to me. And the use of "client" is problematic because I don't charge a dime. If they want to pay me they're free to give me what they want and about half have.

Keep in mind that I'm 315lbs 5'9". Does change anything? Will my body use fat readily because I have so much of it, even while lifting heavy?

Not being an obese piece of shit will guarantee you no loose skin.

>She's the only one who didn't reverse/cure her diabetes
You've changed alot of lifes,wtg bud.
I've heard of so many case of people "curing" there diabetes in a relatively easy manner.
I was raised thinking was you get you have it for life,but nope.It almost sounds easy,but quitting heroin sounds easy to a person that doesn't do heroin.

>315lbs
>5'9
>does that change anything
No.

My standard protocol would be to get you into the doctor for a men's health blood panel incuding:
>blood pressure
>cholesterol
>blood sugar
>a1c
>insulin
>thyroid
Those are the big things I monitor. Because they're the big players in regards to metabolic dysfunction. The rest of the panel is good for seeing what else needs work nutritionally, etc Being 315 lbs I can guarantee with 1000% positivity that you are displaying signs of metabolic dysfunction in these tests.

From there I'll put you on extended fasting periods of up to 2 weeks with re-feeding windows between them of 1-2weeks.

After 3 months another panel will show us if we need to continue or if we can transition to shorter period fasts so we can ramp up workout intensity. If you're still morbidly obese we'll keep going with the 2 week fasts regardless.

the only dietary restrictions I place on you is that you're only allowed to eat from the perimeter of the store. i.e. the produce and fruit, meat, and dairy section. Bakery and deli are a no-go while you're obese.

You're not allowed to eat any food that comes in a box or bag unless it's dried beans, rice or frozen veg. The only other things you're allowed to eat from the center of the store is herbs and spices, olive and coconut oil, and that frozen veg.

if the food has been processed in any way way that you wouldn't find in nature then you're not allowed to have it. Including bread and pasta.

And when you're feeding you can eat whatever you want (as long as it can be made with the above restrictions) and as much as you want. I specifically prohibit calorie counting.

Beyond that. Gym multiple times a week and 1-2 hours of brisk walking or cardio DAILY including gym days.

The fat will melt right off.

Not him but I completely agree. IF rebooted my weight loss in a huge way. I started it 3months into my cut and I lost more weight my 3rd and 4th month than I did my 1st and 2nd which is pretty crazy since almost everyone loses the most weight in their 1st month.

>I was raised thinking was you get you have it for life,
So was I, and so were many people. In fact more than half of the people who cured their diabetes with fasting while working with me were explicitly told by their doctors that diabetes was permanent and progressively intractable disease and that they would have it the rest of their lives.

And to further piss me off. ALL of them who asked their doctors about fasting were told by their doctors that if they tried to do my training protocol they would make their condition worse and gain all of their weight back and then some.

From what I've heard none of their doctors have an excuse for why they now have perfectly normal a1c, insulin, blood sugar response, blood pressure and cholesterol all without the use of any medications after fasting other than "it's a fluke".

>half of the people who cured their diabetes with fasting while working with me were explicitly told by their doctors that diabetes was permanent

So basically the medical community/pharmecutical companies are just out to fuck everyone over and get more money out of them. Tell people there's nothing they can do and they'll just continue eating like shit and buying medicine instead of using diabetes as a wake up call to better their diet and potentially stave on the necessity for medication. Makes sense.

My mother was diagnosed with diabetes just a few years ago and hasn't really improved her eating habits overall. She's overweight but not obese. She would work out when I was younger and eats healthy during the day but then binges on junk food at night. I tried telling her if she cut out the sugar she might be able to turn her situation around but she's convinced it's incurable. Pretty upsetting actually.

>Pushing the le fasting meme
>"I..It worked for me and my bros..."

Enjoy being Anemic high school girls, LOL

I'm 5'11 195 11%. I do IF 16:8 daily. 3500 calories-ish during feeding days and two fasting days per week, more if my body fat starts getting high.

I've worked with everyone from 50 year old women, and a 73 year old veteran who was walking with a cane (now he only carries it because he's convinced he looks good with it), down to gym buddies, men and women in their 30's and 40's and a fatass 20 something chick with three chins.

The only demo I won't work with my regular protocol is anyone under the age of 18.

Tell her a registered dietitian told you that diabetes is mainly caused by having too much weight. Losing most of it will revert diabetes unless she gets fat again.

And also its not sugar that causes diabetes. Its an overall surplus of calories leading to weight gain that does. Sugar is just accessible and easy to overeat

Also tell her the registered dietitian is a fucking moron because her diabetes will clear up long before she loses any significant portion of her body fat if she uses fasting.

Insulin resistance isn't indicated by body fat, it's indicated by visceral organ fat and intramuscular fat. Both coincidentally being the first fat to be consumed during extended periods of fasting.

my 440lb fatass friend had his diabetic symptoms reverse before he even lost 60lbs.

Wait a sec... is this the same guy that walks the emu around?

youtube.com/watch?v=ZdUoZJvdipA

>life goals

Losing just 5% of your weight helps with diabetes and no, fasting is no different from any diet. The end goal is the same. Calorie deficit.

And how does the dietitian explain non-overweight individuals with type 2 diabetes and even overweight diabetics who do manage to lose the weight to non-overweight classifications and still maintain their diabetic diagnosis?

Five of the people who I've worked with were diabetics who fit into either one of those categories. the overweight diabetics who lost the weight only saw what I would call "moderate improvement" to their diabetic outlook, three with high blood pressure still and all of whom were eating the ADA recommended diet.

But the moment they go on a high fat low carb diet with fasting their diabetic symptoms just *poof* disappear into thin air, including one who actually gained 10lbs back while on my training protocol.

>"it's not the carbs"
Yeah ok, sure thing Eli Lilly shill.

I cant fast my job is very physical

I'm a blacksmith by trade. and before that I was doing grunt work framing for 10 and 12 hours a day.

I have absolutely no problem pulling 14 and 15 hour days out on a job site installing wrought iron fences o ironwork with my apprentice 2,3, or even 4 days deep into a fast.

You'll have a fucking rough time of it to start with but there are steps one can take to mitigate the transition period including the use of exogenous ketone supplementation prior to and during the fast to help transition the body and providing the fuel it's not used to manufacturing yet.

Dude le ebil Nazis XD

>ALL of them who asked their doctors about fasting were told by their doctors that if they tried to do my training protocol they would make their condition worse and gain all of their weight back and then some.

What did the doctors tell them to do?
My dad had the sugar,tried to change his diet(honestly tried) but just gave up. He did do insulin shots and lived longed than he should have. He was a food addict,but he was a worker,no problem building a deck/fence neer hesitated with physical labor. (fat dude,fat food and LOTS of beer)

Also,gonna do the 16:8 thing,why not,right?

I feel like that's pretty common for a lot of people. They get older and slowly ease off the exercise and slowly build up the junk food and calories. Seems insignificant for a while but before you know it somewhere between the age of 40 and 60 you went from relatively in shape and healthy to overweight and pre-diabetic.

Like you said, for some it can be a wake up call. For others it can be the beginning of the end.

So what about all the normal weight individuals who get diabetes? I don't mean that to sound like a jerk btw, I'm genuinely curious. Thanks for the feedback btw.

There's nothing wrong with fasting but stop acting like it's a superior form of weightloss just because it worked for you. If you're a 300lb+ tub of shit then sure, fasting is a relatively easy, simple and fast way to get down to a better weight. But eating a balanced diet while counting calories is the better option.

The BEST option IMO is IF since you get the benefits of fasting and the benefits of learning how to eat a balanced low calorie diet. But in the end it's best to find what's best for you and adjust as needed. Don't go around spouting your solution as if it's the end all be all.

>What did the doctors tell them to do?
They told them to keep eating a high carb low fat diet that their body couldn't handle and to compensate that increase in blood sugar with exogenous insulin.
>"We know you have a problem with high blood sugar so we're going to keep giving you more carbs"

The fact is before the advent of exogenous insulin the standard treatment course that was being used was a high fat unprocessed carb diet that had moderate success in reducing symptomology and even wit h reversal. Go back even further to the ancient greeks where we got the term "Diabetes" from and their treatment course was to abstain from wine and sweet foods and even to fast for a week at a time until the urine was no longer sweet. Diabetes from diabainein meaning "like siphon" referring to the frequent urination associated with the condition,to which was later added Mellitis for "like honey" or rather 'sweet urine'.

Where we went wrong was when we figured out how to get Insulin. Type 1 diabetics benefited greatly from it. long lasting lives compared to prior. The misstep in applying insulin to cases of type 2 or adult onset was in thinking that since both type 1 and type 2 have elevated blood sugar, they should be treated the same.

But type1 and 2 are NOT the same and have completely different causalities. It's not that type 2 don't produce insulin, or even that they don't produce enough. It's that they simply have too much sugar which has led to desensitization of the insulin receptor on account of the liver producing so much fat from all the excess sugar.

If you keep shoving glucose into the liver it keeps making fatty acids. But you keep making more, and more, and more, and more fatty acids and they build up in the liver and organs leading to fatty liver and high visceral and fatty organs. You've never given your body a chance to shuttle that fat around and mobilize it and break it down.

(cont)

So, LOGICALLY, a fatty liver makes you insulin resistant, and if a fatty meal raises your serum triglycerides then dietary fat must be bad for you is the only logical conclusion. Thus was born the era of low fat foods. Now everyone is terrified of fatty foods and starts eating copious amounts of grain and refined carbs and lo' and behold diabetes rates go through the roof.

What's the track record for counting calories for weight loss? How many people do it and fail? How many people on a calorie restricted diet complain about lack of energy, feeling cold, and feeling deprived of food. How many people describe the monotony of counting calories and weighing out carefully controlled portions as tiring and exhausting and depressing?

How come people who utilize extended periods of fasting without counting calories experience few or none of those symptoms, or even report the exact opposite. Having "iinsane" levels of energy, feeling like they WANT to go for a walk, run, or to the gym. Feeling awake, clear head and lucid.

>Also,gonna do the 16:8 thing,why not,right?
16:8 is based.
it gives you plenty of time to get your nutrition in.
it's easy to adhere to indefinitely
fits in easily with three meals a day
and gives your body plenty of time to dip into that fat that's floating around for energy
you even get some mad autophagy gains

The reason more people have failed diets counting calories compared to fasting is because fasting is a far less popular method. Not to mention the fact that fasting is CICO just taken to the extreme. It's the same fucking concept in the end.

People are lazy idiots and there will always be morons who try to diet and fail. Doesn't matter the method they try.

I don't even understand your point. Are you saying people shouldn't count calories? They should just fast? What happens next? You sound like someone who just started fasting within the last month and now wants to convert everyone to his religion because it's working so well for you.

>What's the track record for counting calories for weight loss?
Doesn't matter. If you eat less calories you will lose weight. Just because dumb cunts fuck up basic math and science doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

>complain
>feeling
>feeling deprived
>monotony
>exhausting
>depressing

Does OMAD style fasting help?

I agree with this to an extent. However, I do feel bad for those who grew up overweight and obese because their parents fed them shitty diets and never taught them how to eat properly. If both your mother and father gave you fast food 5 days a week and soda every night followed by fruit gushers and brownies then you're not to blame.

In fact, people who grow up like that and then manage to turn themselves around and get in shape when they go off on their own are more impressive to me than anyone who was healthy their whole life will ever be. Their parents, however, deserve something terrible.

>What happens next?

They lose weight??

>That 440lb dude had a fraternal twin who was 'only' 320lbs and he lost weight over a long period of time using calorie restriction and he required cosmetic surgery to take up the loose skin.

Wait, so it's actually better to lose weight quickly by fasting? I'm a fat guy who is doing one meal a day, I don't want any lose skin, should I eat fewer calories so I drop weight faster? Will it give me less loose skin?

>Went from 138kg to 72kg
>Only got a bit loose on inner thighs
Who else /lucky/?

What I mean is, what happens after they fast and lose the weight? Fasting isn't a long term thing, it's a weight loss method. Calorie counting is a long term lifestyle if you choose to continue it.

I understand there are different form of fasting you can keep going post-diet. Such as IF which I admitted above I think is great. But water fasting or straight up fasting are just a shortcut to weight loss.

And once again, fasting is just as extreme version of calorie counting. It's the same concept at the end of the day.

>what happens after they fast and lose the weight?
They engage in strength training and build muscle that in turn increases their BMR so the end game becomes eating the same stuff you did while being fat plus looking good

All true. But even better, on a long enough fast, metabolism increases.

height and were you at least active or pure lard at 138kg?

>one meal a day
You are losing muscle and fat

>probably not the user you asked but I'll interject.
On Intermittent Fasting you can keep to the same lifting routine. Most ideal is to lift right before you break the fast and eat directly after. I now prefer to lift fasted because I feel more mobile and lighter.

And how could I preven that? ADF?
And how is one meal a day significantly different than 20/4 IF?

>They engage in strength training and build muscle that in turn increases their BMR

Exactly, so they stop fasting and IDEALLY they count calories to make sure they're getting enough to build muscle. Along with counting their other macros especially protein.

the end game becomes eating the same stuff you did while being fat plus looking good

Absolutely fucking not. If your goal is to eat like a fat fuck and not gain weight then you're a delusional fool. This only drives home the point that you can't learn to eat properly if you only fast to lose weight.

Learn how to maintain a proper diet, plain and simple.

182cm. Not sure what you mean by the other part.

if you had any muscle mass or were you like cartman fat playing vidya all day (wow episode)

I had massive calves since I walked around a lot with the weight, but that's pretty much it.

>tfw lost them while losing fat
Would they be easy to rebuild?

>pushing fasting
please, kys.
There is no gain for someone telling you to fast you mongoul. Every Person that fast is speking about a good expirience and achieving good physique and Goals.

No one that advocates for fasting is trying to sell you something you shithead. If you dont want to believe only bc of your weak willpower do it. But doent spread shit.
Fasting is the best way for someone to lose weight or even get shredded.

Now go fuck your self with a sausage.

It will never go away unless you cough up the money to surgically remove it. It’s the price you pay for years of neglecting your body, you fat loser.

Nice projection fatass lmao

>Personally I've been keto and fasting so long I have no problem going hard and heavy 5 or 6 days deep into a fast

how heavy is "heavy"? have a feeling most who are into fasting are weak as fuck and their "heavy" isn't actually heavy

weight loss regimen? did you put on any muscle while/after losing fat?

I'm manlet at uni (very competitive dating scene) and in the last 6 months I've been with 4 girls and thats coming off breaking up with a girlfriend of 2 years beforehand.

Stay mad lanklets

400lbs by the time i hit 17, took about 5 years after that to figure out that I could change, another 5 trying to find a way to break the habits and quit yo-yo'ing.
Figuring it out has been harder than most can understand, it's an entirely new world of doing things.

My mom would order me a pizza or make an entire thing of pasta and just shoved it towards me while she'd leave me to watch tv while she left

I was 330 when I was 13

Just posting this if it hasnt yet been done
Dr. Jason Fung - 'Therapeutic Fasting - Solving t…: youtu. be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

how bad is my loose skin

honestly it looks fine, just fill it up with some muscle and you are good to go

how do i get more muscle in my tits?

Bench brah

close grip or wide grip

Yes
Look up "muscle memory"

Bravo

jesus fuckin christ, is your mom obese?

he turned into sam hyde

I love to count calories, I think of it as a game of points and you have X amount to spend each day. lost 12kg so far, only 6 more to go.

No at the time, she is now. She just didn't care

meant for