Victorian bodybuilders were swole before steroids were even invented. I see some people on here using roids to make noob tier gains probably because they believe all the shitposting about 'you can't make it natty'. You can get a lot bigger than you think without having to roid.
Natty thread.
They also had way more test and were more virile.
Modern men are weaker in every way than men from 100 years ago.
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That's a shit excuse. Anyone can raise their test by eating properly, sleeping properly, cold showers, lifting and, of course, raw onions.
High contrast downward lighting in black and white.
>implying that's not how every roiding Instagram bodybuilder takes their photos minus the black and white.
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yeah, but we shouldn't judge the natty limit based off of soyboys. it's the CEILING, not the FLOOR
And the average men are less physical, contributing to a lower average serum T levels. But compare natty athletes of then to now and you'll find them entirely comparable - just like how you'll find the serum T levels of someone with a sedentary lifestyle then comparable to someone with a sedentary lifestyle now.
Yeah but all these guys are manlets
It's true that Eugene Sandow was only 5'9. But he could also lift two grown men over his head so even a 6'0 Victorian bodybuilder would be pretty swole by today's standards.
I agree that if you're over 6'2 it's hard to not look dyel without roids. But it's still not impossible. I knew a natty guy at my old gym who was 6'4 and Greek god mode.
inb4 he was lying about being natty.
>You can get a lot bigger than you think without having to roid.
>using someone almost dyel as example
Just look at nano and crusader, both manlets and roiding, they still manage to make newbie tier gains. Especially crusader holy fucking shit he's cruising on tren and looks completely dyel.
>Especially crusader holy fucking shit he's cruising on tren and looks completely dyel.
He was cruising? I thought he was just blasting a whole shitload of tren and test
Roiding to look the same as a natty with noob gains? Wut
>dyel
sandow could OHP more than you bench
Well, I don't know his cycle exactly but I read that he was blasting tren for those 6 months.
I wouldn't doubt it. It doesn't changed the fact that he was pretty small, especially for the amount he lifted, but to be fair everyone was small back then considering 15 inch arms were actually thought of as impressive (pic related)
Wait is this guy in the pic natty or not? And if yes how tall is he?
He's not natty
literally who and literally who
Dr.Sargent of Harvard University: height, 5’7.25, expanded chest,47, waist, 32.75, thigh, 23, upper arm, 17, and he weighed 180 pounds.
Is that an impressive amount of muscle he put on in that time or would it be the same had he done it natural?
Sorry im a brainlet.
It's nothing impressive, especially since he used tren. For natty, it's decent progress, but pathetic if roiding.
>over 6'2
>hard to not look DYEL without roids
what kind of fantasy land are you living in user, in my experience swole tall people are way more common than lanklets
I didn't say it was impossible at all. OK let me rephrase it, it's piss easy for manlets to get swole than it is for lanklets because they have a smaller frame so there's less to fill. Happy now?
Also are these swole tall people people you know personally? If not how do you know they didn't use roids?
The point is Eugene Sandow was 5'9 and 210lbs at about 12% bodyfat.
This gives him a FFMI of 27. Having an FFMI over 25 is swole by anyone's standards regardless of how tall you are unless you are super fat which distorts your FFMI number.
All the tall people that I know are skinny as fuck
This is the Natty limit for most people according to science. people like Sandow are outliers.
the overwhelming majority will cap out at pic related
First off, there's no way in he'll they're 7%. Second of all, >roiding for this
Anyways I've seen people way bigger than the dude on the left and they were natty
Yeh that's the natty limit at 7% body fat! Obviously you won't be able to retain significant muscle mass at that low of a body fat percentage. If you stay at between 10-15% body fat you can comfortably look jacked without having to resort to roids.
He’s a manlet
Not trying to argue against optimizing your test, but guys back then still had higher test. There was less artificial shit inhibiting test amounts in fetuses and during their teenage years.
>You can get a lot bigger than you think without having to roid.
"You" can't. Some people can, some people cannot. Some people can achieve naturally what other people would need roids for. That's just the way it is. Always has been, always will be.
Also, why is it that you think that because literally a handful of men were swole at a time where literally a billion people were DYEL that this proves anything?
It's as dumb as when people see ONE DUDE who's vegan and swole, and jump to the conclusion that a vegan diet is superior to a regular diet for muscle gain, in spite of the fact that EVERY OTHER DUDE ON THE PLANET who's swole is on a regular diet.
This is the definiton of being an imbecile.
Actually 'I' already am.
The point is that there is no need to take roids if you want to look good. Yeah sure most people look like shit. But most people look like shit because they don't try not to. I'd hope that people on /fit want to take lifting seriously and I'm just saying if you lift three times a week, eat and sleep right etc then you CAN look like you lift. Don't fall for the 'you'll never make it without roids' meme is all I want to say.
Well then we're perfectly in agreement. You have a nice day.
Plus, to follow your retarded analogy, I'm not 'jumping to the conclusion' that natty lifters get swole easier than roiders. I would never say that natty is as good as roids. Obviously it's easier with roids. But roids can fuck you up and I've seen people use them to male gains they could have easily made natty.
Obviously we can't all look like Eugene Sandow natty. But we can all escape DYEL (with the possible exception of mega lanklets) with hard work and dedication.
He gained 15 kg in 5 months, of course it's an impressive amount. Point is it's completely unneccessary to start roiding when you're a beginner and he could've probably gained 10 kg or so without roids in the same period of time since his starting weight was so low.
his endpoint isnt impressive for someone lifting for 5 months at all.
but then again, i was never a skelly. so maybe its impressive for the skelly club.
Not many nattys have 15 inch arms with sub 10% body fat. 16 inch fatceps are not impressive to anyone
He's almost as muscular as I was before I started lifting. Good progress.
first pic is nowehere near 7% and whats even the point of this retarded old study when training methodology and nutrition aren't controlled for, natty bb'ers have considerably more potential than pic 1
And you don't have researches or statistics on this statement, lmao.