VEGAN GENERAL

>Would you accept the justification if you were in the victim's place?
But you see, that's irrelevant.
If someone stronger than me (be that through actual physical strength, or through technology) wants to kill and eat me, what I want is irrelevant, it's just going to eat me, because it can. If I can realize what's going on, I'll obviously try and fight for survival. But if I don't realize I'm dying, and I die painlessly, where's the problem?
You can apply the same sort of reasoning here that you can apply to suicide. The reason suicide is bad (on a small scale), is that it hurts your friends and family, people who are close to you. But, if the people who are close to you have a brain the size of a walnut, are they really going to be that hurt by it?

>You're lying
See above.

>sentient being who doesn't want to die
Think about the fact that the vast majority of animals eaten as food are fucking stupid, and your whole argument crumbles.
Do you really think something like a chicken, that hasn't even developed meaningful inter-species communication, is capable of having the thought of fear or death? No, they just have some amount of survival instinct, but it's not conscious.

>Don't cut yourself on that edge.
What an excellent rebuttal.

OP here, if you truly "think" so, you're retarded and do NOT deserve to be in my thread. Fuck off or I'll report and ban you.

>If you disagree with me you're retarded
What a great argument, as usual.

>I'll report and ban you
oooh so scary

You have provided no argument against these

(You) are not vegan.
(You) are a shitty refugee troll from (YOU HAVE TO GO BACK).
(You) are probably chowing down on all-meat pizza, or a bacon cheeseburger, or Hot Pockets, or chicken tendies (if mom will make them for you) while you were posting this drivel.
(You) are wasting our valuable time with this shitty attempt at 'trolling' you keep trotting out.
(You) are, as usual, a gigantic faggot, and someone should rape your face.
(You) should, for your crime of Cancerousness, become An Hero, so no one has to see your ugly-ass face ever again.
(You) have failed. Leave. Now.

meatcucks are disgusting

non-human animals are not sentient

do you have downs

>You have provided no argument against these
That's irrelevant, I just responded to the OP. I didn't call you a retard without making any argument though, and I didn't carry on shitposting like you did. Why did you still not address my criticism of the OP image?
Just for fun, I'll address those.

Most of those characteristics are entirely irrelevant, and the similarities between humans and monkeys doesn't mean we should behave like monkeys. We can digest meat, so that picture is not a good argument for veganism.
I never claimed humans should eat meat because we have canines.
Humane slaughter is undeniably a good thing.
The only reason we "look away and let the butcher deal with the guts" is the pussification of western society in the past few decades. Not even that much time ago, it was very common for families to buy a whole animal and then slaughter it, kids watching (and learning) and all. It still is common in developing countries, or in rural areas of developed countries.
Cooking improves nutriend bioavailability and kills the vast majority of disease vectors, why wouldn't you cook if you have the technology to do so?
Once the animal is dead, the cancer is dead. Even eating cancerous tissue once it's cooked shouldn't be bad for you, but it's cut out anyway.
Correlation does not imply causation, and you're not looking at all the other fuckloads of things that might factor in. Physical activity, genetic predisposition, environmental factors, etc.
Sure seems scary, but those things are present in such small quantities that they pose absolutely no threat to your health.
Are you also scared of leaving your house? Because a guy a few yards away coughing in your general direction is far more dangerous than drinking some milk.
See my response to the OP

cont.

>milk and cheese are the source of mad cow disease
Wrong.
>iron deficiency
Yes, drinking cow milk as opposed to drinking breast milk. It's not the cow milk itself that's bad for you.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16247536
>75% cannot digest lactose
Good, then they shouldn't drink milk. Why shouldn't the other 25% though?
>killer bacteria
Why aren't milk drinkers all dead then? Or even just a small portion of them?
>health benefits
Ok, I don't contest that
>obesity
Absolutely wrong, that's just due to the lower calorie intake that's associated with a vegetarian or vegan diet.
>greenhouse gas emission
Wrong, any trustable source gives ~15% as figure.
>water usage
Absolutely irrelevant compared to all the water used by industries.
>"which instead could be used to feed 10 people a day"
No it wouldn't, because if one less pound of meat is produced, the demand for wheat will be reduced by 16 pounds, and after wheat farmers adapt to the demand those 16 pounds of wheat won't be produced anymore.
And if by "feed 10 people a day" the intention is to appeal to muh poor kids starving in Africa, it also wouldn't be used like that. The amount of food thrown away in the west is huge, if we could ship those 16 lbs of wheat over there, we can also ship 16 lbs of excess food we currently have over there. Why isn't that happening?

Bonus points:
False equivalence. Humans are smart enough to understand what's happening to them, and getting your neck stabbed and having it bleed out is pretty fucking nasty.

Now please, your turn. Prove me wrong.
And since you insisted I address all of your images, it would only be fair if you addressed all of my points.
>inb4 lol ur an retard

>We can digest meat,

Even herbivores can digest meat

try again

This. Meatcucks don't know that there is a difference in "I don't die if I eat this" and "Eating this is bad for my healt and the environment".

wrong

>2017
>not eating meat ever
wew lad

>Absolutely irrelevant compared to all the water used by industries.

kek

Why the fk is this trash allowed on this board

What about "I can eat this, extract nutrients from it, and it will only marginally increase the likeliness of something that's overwhelmingly likely anyway (cancer and heart disease)?"

>acre-feet
try again

This, and /fast/. These two threads are by far the most garbage-dense threads you'll find on Veeky Forums.
They're literally a handful of retards just shouting you down if you don't agree with their bullshit.

What else would you do with that water?

acre-feet is a unit of volume dumbcunt

exactly what water usage should be measured in

>acre-feet
uh
try again?

This flowchart is incomplete

>do you care about animals
some of them, yeah, but not others
>eat the ones you don't care about
okay

wow. meat logic wins again.

why cant you comprehend that acre-feet is a unit of volume, did you fail math at school?

>taking an area (the definition of which is already real fucky) and multiplying it by a length
>when actual units of volume exist
You'd only do that if you want to confuse the reader. Wow, look how big that number is.
You're not actually conveying any useful information.

the proportions are what is important

>chart purposely obfuscates information
>you're ok with this because it furthers your argument
See, that's why nobody likes vegans.

you do realise the proportions would stay the same if you changed the units from acre-feet to metres cubed

>tickle a person one or a hundred times
>shoot one or a hundred people
>there is no difference, just chart it all as "things happening"
That's how retarded you sound right now.

Will being vegan make me not obese?

Animals kill animals. Always have. Always will.

This is why no one likes Vegans and no one cares what they have to say.

>pick a very small part of the world that has the peculiarity of being heavily based on the tertiary and primary sector, with a basically nonexistent secondary sector
>lol industry doesn't use water what do you mean lol
Sure thing pal, why don't you respond to this then?

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Share_of_industrial_categories_in_the_total_water_use_in_industry_(%).png

Or this?

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Water_use_in_the_manufacturing_industry_by_activity,_2011_(m³_per_inhabitant).png

>ITT; Soyboys

>humans are smart enough to understand what's happening to them
Drug humans and it's ok then, at last I truly see

>vegan men

>when you are too much of a "special flower" to eat like humans did for thousands of years

That is not at all what I meant. Either you understand that and you're purposefully misrepresenting my position, or you don't understand that and you're a brainlet.

Tell me, why is it ok to eat plants, but not animals that basically have the same brains as plants?

...

Meatcucks BTFO again and again by science and logic :)

...

Are you fucking retarded you brain dead meatcuck? How much more evidence do you "people" need before you realize that your diet is wrong?

You cared enough to enter the thread and post a comment, meatcuck.

Read it again

meatcucks NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

>Morality is relative - Science, logic, mathematics are all based on axioms that are not proven, what is different about morality and moral axioms? Think this argument through before arguing for it, it is not as simple as you think. (most philosophers are moral realists and believe moral propositions can in fact be true)

Don't you mean non-white animals are not sentient?

Get that shit back to /pol/. Africans had many impressive cultures and technical innovations before white men made them their slaves.

>unironically shilling veganism on Veeky Forums
This thread belongs on /pol/, as this is primarily centered around the politics of animal sentience and humanity, not health and fitness. Please stop using Veeky Forums for things not Veeky Forums related.

OP here, as soon as boogie threads get deleted, I'll go back.

So the act of taking slaves somehow removed all culture and technology from africa?
Because that's what you said.

How much culture is there going to be left when you nuke any country with today's bomb?

The slavery white people have brought onto the cradle of mankind had a similiar effect.

Please do the right thing and cease the non-argument of "but they're doing it too".

No. Discussion about nutrition has some Veeky Forums relevance. A fat fuck playing vidya all day does not.

This thread boils down to either "veganism is morally right" or "veganism is morally wrong". The healthiness of veganism as a thread topic can be easily replaced by reading the Veeky Forums sticky. Please view the Veeky Forums sticky in full before making a thread on Veeky Forums to avoid board clutter, and consider moving offtopic threads involving moral choices to /pol/. Thank you.

that settles it

>black people get poorer
>more black people will try to get to other countries

What did you win again?

Animals eat other animals

We are animals and eat other animals

It's the circle of life

And you're a soyboy. X

Animals hunt for other animals.

We do not hunt animals. We keep them as slaves, rape them, kill their children, torture them over several years and only then give them the sweet gift of mercy (aka death). A bite to the throat is nothing compared to this brutality.

I only eat wild caught fish. Try again faggot

And you don't eat any other meat or drink any milk?

A quick, sharp shock is definitely less painful than watching your life slip away in agony as some wolf has bitten a chunk out of your throat.

Chickens in farms etc. will probably live longer in the farm than if they were exposed to more animals in the wild. It's just about ethically sourcing the meat. Soyboy.

That does a longer life mean if you waste it in a small box, with thousands of others of your kind, without ever seeing the sun?

Look at these animals
youtube.com/watch?v=L_vqIGTKuQE

Do you think they are happy they live a fear years longer than in the wild under these conditions?

No amount of explanation will change a vegan or anyone who went to the extreme of an ideology. You got bored, or wanted to be accepted by other people. So you joined a group. Trust me I get it.

This post right here is a great example of how fucking stupid vegans appear to most non vegans. Animals do not think like we do. If there was a species that could communicate with us on a language intellectual level there's no fucking way we would inhumanely, let alone humanely, slaughter them.

Maybe it's just low self esteem equating yourself to a chicken. My girlfriend does that with cows sometimes. Guess you guys need chads to make you feel better.

>If there was a species that could communicate with us on a language intellectual level there's no fucking way we would inhumanely, let alone humanely, slaughter them

>what are dogs, dolphins and whales

TIL I could totally eat human meat if we could breed them as the same sentient level as cattle,
Thanks vegan friends!

I will now get out, as per flowchart
o7

>Are you fucking retarded
>How much more evidence do you "people" need
And yet, still no argument.
Please, address all of if you want me to think you're anything other than a big joke.

Fuck off with your Vegan Propaganda Bullshit.

You are a NWO shill trying to push depopulation and feminisation agenda, we know your script now GTFO.

The least environmental one can do is to use a phone or computer and use internet.

It takes up shitload of energy and fine metal creating all those circuitboards.

So all treehuggers unplug NOW!

>Meat consumption is ruining the environment.
>beefmagazine.com/blog/4-facts-debunk-meat-horrible-article
>grist.org/sustainable-farming/farmer-responds-to-the-new-york-times-re-sustainable-meat/
>latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-ca-jc-nicolette-hahn-niman-20141123-story.html

>Appeal to nature
>e.g. meat is natural and therefore ethical
>time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
>livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
>livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
>thefreelibrary.com/Meat in the human diet: an anthropological perspective-a0169311689
>People who read books know a fact that vegetarians do not- that at one point in history, the Earth's total population of humans dropped to between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals, due to the eruption of Mt. Toba in Sumatra, which killed off most of the available plant and animal life on Earth in 71,000 BC. During this period of time, humans were confined to an
>extraordinarily small area of Africa that escaped glaciation, where they subsisted on a diet that was "approximately 50-70% meat and 50-30% plants, respectively." This diet was necessitated by the die-off of plants and animals, and the lack of a varied diet that could have been otherwise obtained though plant gathering. It was at this time that the Neanderthal diet came to consist of naught but meat, due to the complete lack of availability of edible vegetation, which likely lasted for at least 1000 years.(Plants/climate)
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html?zx=dfdf09fc6fc82ae9
>VEGAN GENERAL
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html?zx=ad3368cda1e2722b

>diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/12/devil-in-feeding-trough-pge-response-to.html?m=1
>mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us
>saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>reddit.com/r/keto/comments/2qxnro/red_meat_triggers_toxic_immune_reaction_which/cnai2od/
>caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/

>Contrary to popular belief, consuming a higher amount of fat (about 35 per cent of energy) is associated with a lower risk of death compared to lower intakes. However, a diet high in carbohydrates (of more than 60 per cent of energy) is related to higher mortality, although not with the risk of cardiovascular disease.
>The research on dietary fats found that they are not associated with major cardiovascular disease, but higher fat consumption was associated with lower mortality; this was seen for all major types of fats (saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats and mono unsaturated fats), with saturated fats being associated with lower stroke risk. The researchers point out that, while this may appear surprising to some, these new results are consistent with several observational studies and randomized controlled trials conducted in Western countries during the last two decades.
>The large new study, when viewed in the context of most previous studies, questions the conventional beliefs about dietary fats and clinical outcomes, says Mahshid Dehghan, the lead author for the study and an investigator at PHRI.
>sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170829091027.htm
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>uib.no/en/node/103172
>healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html

In no way would you live or die painlessly, were this 'being' to treat you the same way we treat our cattle

It's not the death - which very often is far from painless - that is the issue. It's the entire life lived in absolute physical and mental torture that's the issue. We wouldn't be able to produce a fraction of the meat we produce today if we cared even a bit about the animals well being.
They have social structures, and care for their young for long like we do. Like ALL mammals are supposed to do. Of course it's mentally taxing on them to live all their lives in an unsanitary place with minimal space to move, and being unable to ever form relationships with others. Imagine living you're entire life in a space so small you're not getting good enough circulation to whichever part of the body that is in contact with the hard surface. Some animals can't lay down or sit.
Thinking you can't apply moral value to them is absolutely bizarre. How would they evolutionary have come to be what they are today, if they didn't have a complex nervous system capable of feeling all the emotions we do?
We know that they too have limbic systems same as ours. EMOTIONS are NOT the same as reason. An animal doesn't have to be able to know it is dying or whatever, in order to suffer. It's plain idiotic to think that it would be morally okay for an alien creature to make us suffer, just because they can.

>the same way we treat our cattle
>It's the entire life lived in absolute physical and mental torture that's the issue.
>live all their lives in an unsanitary place with minimal space to move, and being unable to ever form relationships with others. Imagine living you're entire life in a space so small you're not getting good enough circulation to whichever part of the body that is in contact with the hard surface. Some animals can't lay down or sit.
So, if I raise chickens in my back yard for their eggs, and then eventually kill them and eat them, that's fine, because they had the physical space and companionship necessary to do normal chicken things?
If a farmer has some cows grazing in a big ass field instead of all cramped together, takes their milk, and slaughters them for meat, that's fine, because they had the physical space and companionship necessary to do normal chicken things?
That's not very vegan of you.

I'm not vegan. And yes, I think it is fine. No suffering, right? It sounds a hell of a lot better than what would happen with those animals in the wild (ie starvation, injuries, potentially slow deaths)

So we should be allowed to kill 4 year olds because they are less developed than some animals?

Hey look, it's the blog copypasta and beefmagazine sauce guy. You're a literal retard. Not even vegan.

Why are so many celebrities, athletes, actors, and models vegan? Are the jews hoarding their diet secrets for the Chads?

>vegans think "You wouldn't eat a Dog!" is an argument
Dogs and Humans grew up together, we are brother species. That is like saying, "You wouldn't eat your best friend!" No shit sherlock.

If every cow is in a factory farm then how come I see so many cows walking around outside with lots of room on farms? Checkmate vegans.

no one is checking your links bro

it's an actually good diet with tons of health benefits that's considerate of the fact that we're screwing the world up at a ridiculous rate.

Contrary to what you've seen in roots, white people rarely if ever bothered to go running through the brush with nets and shackles to catch black slaves.
They were simply already for sale at coastal markets when they arrived in Africa. They were sold into slavery by their own people.
Literally every culture that has ever existed has engaged massively in slavery since the dawn of time.
The difference is the british were the first to outlaw it and go out of their way to patrol the coast of Africa, to intercept any slave ships leaving the continent

Im lactose intolerant so no

so what's your favorite meat? mine is beef and chicken

That doesnt justify you eating dead birds and cattle you fuckin faggot
You have moral agency

/thread

UPDATE THE FUCKING DISCORD LINK REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

shitskin detected

Who eats dogs and whales?
>inb4 chinese people r also human
No theyre not

This is the only right answer. You dont have to be a vegantard or an actual pshycopath. You can care for animals and want to better their lives, and you should be willing to even pay a little more for animal products from happy animals.

>people who don't care about animals shouldn't go vegan anyway

Dumb image.