Routine thread

post routines
currently doing Candito's LP, 6 months into lifting

Monday: Upper
>Bench 3x6
>Barbell Rows 3x8
>OHP 1x6
>Pullups 1x6
>Lateral DB Shoulder Raises 3x12
>Barbell Curls 3x12

Tuesday: Lower
>Squat 3x6
>Deadlift 2x6
>Leg Extensions 3x12
>Front Squats 3x8

Thursday: Upper
>Pause Bench 6x4
>Pause Pullup 6x4
>OHP 1x10
>Barbell Row 1x10
>Lateral Raises 3x12
>Barbell Curls 3x12

Friday: Lower
>Pause Squat 6x4
>Pause Deadlifts 3x4
>Leg Extensions 3x12
>Front Squats 3x8

On my off days I'll do wrist work and cardio

Other urls found in this thread:

canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/
instagram.com/p/Bcaz7TTDtjg/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

r8 this routine and others and post your own routine

Fullbody (M-W-F)
> Bulgarian Split Squat 3x8
> Weighted Chinups 3x6
> Weighted Pushups 3x6
> Front Lever Rows 3x8
> Dips 3x10
> Hanging Leg Raises 3x10
> Hammer Curls 2x10
> Lateral Raises 2x10
> Tricep Dips 2x10

bump looking for a good routine where i can build muscle and look like a king
what's your goal with this routine?

>A
Arms + shoulders

>B
Back + tits

OP here, my goal is to get strong n big while not looking like Rippletits

I do 50 pullups every day and nothing else

Will I make it?

>no benching
user, I....

Has anyone completely dropped squatting from their routine? It's the one lift I absolutely dread, I'm at 3pl8 1rm

what routine is good if i wanna look like this? there's free memes in it for the man who helps me

by analyzing his physique, dude did lots of chest + lat work with emphasis on core for accessories
so basically a lot of chest movements, bench pressing + isolations, and pullups and rows for lats.
His arms lack thickness though....

Man, why is finding a routine that works for me so hard? I HATE THIS

His LP is fine, as far as ways you could alter it to get bigger/stronger, here's what I'd do.

>make your OHP on both days 3 sets instead of 1
>do curls one day upper day, do LTEs the other
>don't do leg extensions, front squatting after back squatting has the exact same stimulus, try split squats or lunges instead of front squats and some sort of hip hinge like hyperextensions, GHRs or ab work instead of leg extensions
>switch up your supplemental lifts some days

id also try not to train my traps.. he has not traps and it improved his physique

>OHP suggestion seems like a good idea
>For the LTE part, Candito said doing extra tricep work could impede recovery, thoughts?
>by leg extensions I meant leg curls, the one where you bring your legs up
>so by switching up supplemental lifts, means for example do BB curls one day and hammer curls the other?

Tuesday: Shoulders and biceps
Wednesday: Legs
Thursday: Shoulders and back
Friday: Chest and triceps
Saturday Back and Biceps
Sunday: Legs and chest

Monday
Squat 5x6
Bench 5x6
Pendlay Rows 3x12
Curls 3x12
Tricep Extensions 3x12

Tuesday
Conditioning 30 min
Pullups 7 min
Ab Wheel 7 min

Wednesday
OHP 5x6
RDL 6x8
DB Bench 3x12
Curls 3x12
Tricep Extensions 3x12

Thursday
Conditioning 30 min
Pullups 7 min
Ab Wheel 7 min

Friday
Deadlift 5x6
Incline Bench 6x8
Leg Press 3x12
Curls 3x12
Tricep Extensions 3x12

Thoughts?

Extra tricep work, especially on the second day won't impede recovery. I much prefer some kind of proper hip hinge to leg curls because you'll be using your glutes as well as hamstrings, your lower back, and it has better carryover to main movements like squats and deadlifts. And yeah that's because what switching the supplemental lifts means, like your horizontal and vertical pulls don't always have to be barbell rows and pullups, you can do like chinups and cable rows, hammer curls and barbell curls, lunges and split squats that sort of thing.

goal?

hypertrophy and strength. currently gaining weight

Full body AxBxA.

A:
Overhead Press 3x5
Deadlift 2x5
Weighted Chinups 3xF
Calf Raises 3x12
Lu Raises 2xF
Hammer Curls 3x8 superset-> Bicep curls to failure with 10 lb less
Farmer Walks 1xF

B:
Front Squat 3x5
Close grip bench press 3x5
Dumbbell Shrugs 2xF
Lat pulldowns 1xF
Face pulls 3x15
RDL 2x8
Skullcrushers 2x12
Tricep rope pulldowns 2x12

I can't really alternate rowing movements since homegym, really the only rowing movements I can do are BB Rows, DB Rows, Chins and Pullups
I'll try your point about replacing the squats adn adding LTE's ,thanks for the help brah
Veeky Forums has been helpful today, maybe cause I posted this thread in /plg/

Ohp is only 1 set for easier progression and intra-workout recovery. Add more sets of ohp/triceps to your control day if you think you can handle it, but your strength upper day should remain unchanged.

I'd drop hamstring curls in favour of hypers or rdls on your lower strength day

I took what you both said and made these changes

Monday: Upper
>Bench 3x6
>Barbell Rows 3x8
>OHP 1x6
>Pullups 1x6
>Lateral DB Shoulder Raises 3x12
>Barbell Curls 3x12

Tuesday: Lower
>Squat 3x6
>Deadlift 2x6
>RDL 3x12
>Lunges 3x8

Thursday: Upper
>Pause Bench 6x4
>Pause Pullup 6x4
>OHP 3x10
>Barbell Row 1x10
>Lateral Raises 3x12
>LTE 3x12

Friday: Lower
>Pause Squat 6x4
>Pause Deadlifts 3x4
>RDL 3x12
>Lunges 3x8

lmao forgot to turn off my trip, fuck it I guess
I'd like to rpogress with OHP so I'll do 1 set 1 day and 3 sets on the control day

Monday
Bench press pyramid 5/3/1 superset with pull ups
Dips 3x10
Barbell row 3x10
bicep exercise 3x10
Face pulls 3x20

Tuesday
Dia 2
Box jumps 3x5
Squats pyramid 5/3/1
Stiff legged deadlift 3x10
One-Leg Press 3x10
abs

Thursday
Dia 3
Overhead press pyramid 5/3/1 superset with pull ups
Dips 3x10
Barbell row 3x10
bicep exercise 3x10
Face pulls 3x20

Friday
Dia 4
Depth Jumps 3x5
Deadlift pyramid 5/3/1
Front Squats 3x10
One-Leg Press 3x10
abs

this is the rutine im gonna be doing in one mont, i've just finished candito 6 week program, it give me great results on the squats and added 10 pounds on my bench, it did pretty well, but i just started training seriously after one year of fucking around with a bad routine, so there's that

glad to here about the success on the Candito program brah

Doesn't look bad, you'll do good lad.

Guys everyone keeps saying this routine is bad but what's really wrong with it?

I put it together from info on exrx.net

thanks brah
lets get fuckin swole, we're all gonna make it

Has anyone done built like a bad ass? How would you rate it?

trips CONFIRMS we're all gonna make it

Posted this in QTDDTOT, got an answer to do canditto strenght/explosive 3day routine but can't find it. Any help with that or the request below? Thank you

I'm switching off a PPL routine into a more strenght/cardio/bodyweight based one.
Is pic related good? On rest days I'd do boxing 3 times a week and the 1 day where there'd be neither lifting or boxing I'd go run in the morning and swim in the evening. Possibly run more times a week, as much as I could.

A; boxing; B; boxing; C; boxing; swimming+running/rest
Good idea?

wonky. you got a poorfag home gym?
not if you don't allow yourself to go beyond 50
football/10

no set routine, but typical push day right now
>push/rear delts day
bench 135 x4, wide grip x4, narrow grip x4
185 x6
205 x6
225 x6
245 x4
245 x4
OHP 95 x6
115 x6
135 x4
135 x4
DB kickbacks 25s x8
30s x8
25s x8
20s x12
lateral db flye 30s x6
30s x8
30s x6 drop 25s x6 drop 20s x6
bent over barbell row 115 x8
135 x8
135 x8
115 x8
115 x8

canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/
download Candito LP, the strength/ explosive program is in that file.
Its actually a 4 day program, but you can make it three, he says how to somewhere in there at the end

I'll look into it, thank you.
Is it the only good routine to do for the goals I've got?

ABXCDXX
A:
5x3 Squat
3x6 Sumo deadlift
3x6-12 Barbell Row
lmaocurl routine

B:
5x3 Bench
3x6 Push Press
3x6-12 Incline DB Bench
3xF Dips
lmaoabroutine

C:
5x3 Deadlift
3x6 ATG/Front Squat
3xF Pulls/Chins
3x6-12 Barbell Shrugs

D:
5x3 OHP
3x6 Bench
3x6-12 Arnold Press
lmaotriceproutine

I kinda want to add power cleans but idk where to put them

explosive legs + a cardio base, which strength/power develops, will def help ur boxing and swimming
power cleans are a lower exercise, so my guess would be A or C

what the fuck am I reading

I'm looking for a deadlift centric 3 day a week routine, any suggestions?

>leg day
front squat 135 x4
hybrid squat 135 x4
185 x4
205 x4
225 x4
245 x4
275 x3
250 x4
225 x5
205 x6
front squat 155 x4
155 x4

>pull + rear delts
pullup x4 superset chinup x4
weighted pullup 20 x6
30 x6
45 x6
45 to failure
weighted chinup 45 x6
45 to failure
pullup x4 superset chinup x4
wide grip x3 standard x3 chinup x3
DB row 80s x8
80s x8
85s x6
85s x6
60s x12
60s x12
bent over barbell row 115 x8
135 x8
135 x8
115 x8
DB shrug 80s x8
85s x8
90s x8
95s x8
DB curl 40s x6
40s x6
35s x6
35s x6

pepper in cardio on weekends, I get enough at work

and then another leg day to make a 4 day schedule, usually a rest day after each upper body day

OHP, deadlifts and squats every workout, 3 workouts every week. 30 minute conditioning sessions on 2/4 off days. 5 sets of near max rep Pull-ups on conditioning days

Week 1: 70%, 3-5x5
Week 2: 80%, 3-5x5
Week 3: 90% 3-5x3
Week 4; 75% 3-5x5
Week 5: 85% 3-5x3
Week 6: 95% 3-4x1-2

any suggestion for setXrep? 5x1-3?

pc guy btw

ABABABx

A)
Bench Press 5x6
Squat 3x5
OHP 5x6
Incline DB Bench 5x6
Lateral Raises 3x8

B)
Deadlift 3x5
Row 5x6
Bicep Curl 3x8
Neck Curls 2x12
Neck Extensions 2x12
Grip Work

I would cut sumo deadlifts off and do power cleans+front squats on A and heavy squats and deadlifts on C

3x3 or 5x3, I've read programs and this seems to be the standard

That works, but doesn't doing deadlift or squat after the other just kill you? I was kind of worried about not getting decent sets on one after completing the other. Should I just grow some balls and deal with it?

to clarify a bit my 3x6 sets are pretty light usually but my 5x3 sets end up being max effort

Isn't doing dls and squats so sooner after each other retarded? Also no triceps or lats?

>Isn't doing dls and squats so sooner after each other retarded?
Not really. Your legs and core recover very quickly. If your nutrition and rest is on point, you could theoretically squat every day.
>Also no triceps or lats?
I figure three different pressing movements kind of eliminates the need for isolated tricep work. And I am getting lats, that's what rows do.

>residual tricep work is as good as isolated tricep work
go do some proper cable extensions with your elbow pushing against your side, tell me that bullshit again.

>explosive legs + a cardio base, which strength/power develops, will def help ur boxing and swimming

okay, thanks, here is what I came up with, is it okay? I've put in neon green the excercises which I don't think I've put where they belong

Not really, candito lp program for example have them in the same day, but it's less volume (squat 3x6 and deadlifts 2x6) that's up to you, but 5x3 heavy deadlifts seems like an overkill to me, just like the 3xf pulls, i would just do 3x10 and then start adding weight, unless you cant do 10, then it's okay

uhuh yeah totally

Bench 2x10
Dumbell presses 3x10
Barbell curls 3x10
Squats 2x10
Pullups 3xF
Dips 3x10
Knee raises 3x8
Russian twists 3x8
Pushdowns 3x10
Seated calf raises 3x10

3 times a week the same thing but in different order and sometimes don't even squat because i don't like it. I've been going to the local gym for two weeks now because doing street fitness in the winter is suicide so decided to give the gym a try but didn't want to leave all calisthenics so i added a bit in my program.

We should do routine threads where people post their routine and their current body

I'll try that. thanks user.

>>Pullups 1x6

I'm stealing your routine and adding some good shit to it cunt. Also cutting a day off cuz i'm only doing 5 max. Need to give my body rest

look at where that red fucker inserts at the top and tell me you can fully contract the muscle with regular pushing movements

Recommend beginner routine for gaining muscle pls

SL 5x5
SS

Okay, but why either of them if the goal is hypertrophy?

Muh volume.

What does Veeky Forums think about the PPL routine on >reddit
PULL

Deadlifts 1x5+/Barbell rows 4x5, 1x5+ (alternate, so if you did deadlifts on Monday, you would do rows on Thursday, and so on)

3x8-12 Pulldowns OR Pullups OR chinups

3x8-12 seated cable rows OR chest supported rows

5x15-20 face pulls

4x8-12 hammer curls

4x8-12 dumbbell curls

PUSH

4x5, 1x5+ bench press/4x5, 1x5+ overhead press (alternate in the same fashion as the rows and deadlifts)

3x8-12 overhead press/3x8-12 bench press (do the opposite movement: if you bench pressed first, overhead press here)

3x8-12 incline dumbbell press

3x8-12 triceps pushdowns SS 3x15-20 lateral raises

3x8-12 overhead triceps extensions SS 3x15-20 lateral raises

LEGS

2x5, 1x5+ squat

3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift

3x8-12 leg press

3x8-12 leg curls

5x8-12 calf raises

Lyle McDonald buking routine. It's very good for hypertrophy

it's shit, you're going to burn out very quickly doing AMRAPs 6 days a fucking week

guy who wrote it just slapped together some shit that sounded good in his head but never actually tried it

It's all in the sticky. If he doesn't want to read it he might as well do these routines

>day 1
bench press 4x6
ohp 4x6
>day 2
squat 5x5
>day 3
lat pulldowns 4x6
bent over barbell rows 4x8
>day 4
deadlift 6x4

What would you recommend something like it? I like PPL routines? Any examples?

also go jogging like 10 minutes a day

A beginner's MRV and minimum effective dose are very close together. You can do literally anything and gain mass and strength for the first few months. That said, if you're not taking an intelligent/structured path with your programming you'll stall soon after that and have a lot more trouble making progress than before.

For a beginner, strength is size and size is strength (the same holds true for any lifter though).

if you insist on doing a PPL look up lyle mcdonald's generic bulking routing PPL version (same as the GBR U/L but spread out over 6 days with a tiny bit more accessory work, see attached pic) or coolcicada's PPL

why PPL is good on paper: take the volume you would be doing in 4 days, maybe add a tiny bit to it, and distribute it in such a way that you are much fresher for your big compounds

why most PPLs are shit: they add way more volume to each day so you just end up running yourself into the ground, not taking into account that (as lyle puts it) everyday is kidney day (recovery has a systemic component)

Day 1
Bench Press - 5x5
Upright Row - 5x10
Pulldown - 5x10

Day 2
Shoulder Press - 5x5
Curl - 5x10
Pushdown - 5x10

Day 3
Squat - 5x5
Straight Leg Deadlift - 5x10
Calf Raise - 5x10

Day 4
Rest

Day 5
Pulldown - 5x5
Bench Press - 5x10
Upright Row - 5x10

Day 6
Pushdown - 5x5
Shoulder Press - 5x10
Curl - 5x10

Day 7
Calf Raise - 5x5
Squat - 5x10
Straight Leg Deadlift - 5x10

Day 8
Rest

Day 9
Upright Row - 5x5
Pulldown - 5x10
Bench Press - 5x10

Day 10
Curl - 5x5
Pushdown - 5x10
Shoulder Press - 5x10

Day 11
Straight Leg Deadlift - 5x5
Calf Raise - 5x10
Squat - 5x10

Day 12
Rest

So if PPL is shit what other split routines are there? Due to my gym being at work and other commitments i only will be able to go 4 days per week, what would you recommend? I am trying to build mass/hypertrophy mostly.

U/L or full body 4x per week are unironically your best options.

I would recommend 4 days upper/lower split, (p.h.u.l, candito lp hypertrophy program, etc)

i never said PPL is shit, only that most implementations of PPL are shit

if you only have 4 days PPL is out of the question completely for you (you need at least 6 days a week to have 2x frequency on everything with a PPL), your best bet is an upper lower

do lyle's generic bulking routine, add in lateral raises and face pulls and direct neck training on upper days

Mon:
Squat 3x5
Bench @60% 3x10
Weighted Chins 3x5
Lat Pulldown 3x15
Leg Raises 3x15
Farmer Walks 3

Tue:
OHP 3x5
Deadlift @60% 3x10
Dips 3x15
DB Rows 3x15
Russian Twists 3x15
Calf Raises 3x15

Thu:
Bench 3x5
Squat @60% 3x10
Chins 3x15
Lat Pulldown 3x15
Leg Raises 3x15
Farmer Walks 3

Fri:
Deadlift 3x5
OHP @60% 3x10
Weighted Dips 3x5
DB Rows 3x15
Russian Twists 3x15
Shrugs 3x15

Wed/Sat: Cycling, Stretching
All exercises are done last set amrap, except farmer walks.

I was wondering why nobody did 4 sets on any exercise.

BUMP

Reg Park's 5x5

>A
5x5 Squats
5x5 Bench
5x5 Chins
Curls
Forearms
Calves
>B
5x5 Front Squat
5x5 Row
5x5 OHP
3x5 Deadlifts
Forearms
Calves

The nattiest of gains. First few sets ramp up to a linear 3x5, increase weight when you can do complete the three sets comfortably.

Hey Veeky Forums, should I try doing Candito's Upper/Lower split if I am a beginner, or should I stick to 3 day a week routines like SS/SL?

Pull 1:
1x5+ Deadlift
3 Sets Pull Ups
3x12 Cable Seated Rows
4x12 Dumbbell Hammer Curls
3 Sets Leg Raises
4x12 Dumbbell Curls

Push 1:
5x5+ Bench
3x12 OHP
3x12 Incline Bench
3x12 Lateral Raises
3x12 Dumbbell Bench
3x12 Dumbbell Flys

Legs 1:
3x5+ High Bar Squat
3x5 Front Squats
3x12 RDLs
3x12 Cable Kneeling Pulldowns
3 Sets Leg Raises

Pull 2:
5x5+ Barbell Rows
3 Sets Pull Ups
3x12 Cable Seated Rows
4x12 Dumbbell Hammer Curls
3 Sets Leg Raises
4x12 Dumbbell Curls

Push 2:
5x5 OHP
3x12 Bench
3x12 Lateral Raises
3x12 Incline Bench
3x12 Dumbbell Bench
3x12 Dumbbell Flys


Legs 2:
3x5+ High Bar Squat
3x5 Front Squats
3x12 RDLs
3x12 Torso Rotation
3 Sets Leg Raises

Last time I posted the only feedback was that I was doing too many accessories. Do you think I’m getting enough ab work?

B: 200ish S:225+ D: 300ish

170 pounds BW, up 35 in the last year and a half. 6ft.

Way too much volume.

Nice laundry list.

I know, right? It's the human body, not a chemistry experiment. People act like the numbers matter more than effort, full contractions, and thoroughness of exercise.

>hypertrophy program
>too much volume
haha what a faggot.

Even weeks are AxBxAxx
Uneven weeks are BxAxBxx
All tuesdays and thursdays are calves/abs
All saturdays are traps/insanity training

Workout A:
Back Squat, 5x5 (cuz im lacking, more volume)
Pistol Squat, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight
Incline Bench, 1x5, 1x3-5, 1xFail@-20%
Dips, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight
Bent-over Row, 1x5, 1x3-5,1xFail@-20%
Pullups, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight
Deadlift, 1x5, 1x3-5

Workout B:
Overhead Press, 1x5, 1x3-5, 1xFail@-20%
Handstand Pushups, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight
Rack Pulls, 1x5, 1x3-5
EZ Curl, 1x5, 1x3-5, 1xFail@-20%
Chinups, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight
Close Grip Bench, 1x5, 1x3-5, 1xFail@-20%
Diamond Pushups, 3x6-8, 1xFail@bodyweight

Tuesdays:
Standing Calf Raise, 5x8-10, 1xFail@-20kg
Ab Roller, 1xFail
Window Wiper, 1xFail
Seated Calf Raise, 5x8-10, 1xFail@-20kg
Hanging Leg Raise, 4x10-15
Plank, 4x1-2min
Donkey Calf Raise, 1x50
Stomach Vacuum, 4x30-60sec

Thursdays:
Standing Calf Raise, 4x18-20, 1xFail@-20kg
Ab Roller, 1xFail
Window Wiper, 1xFail
Seated Calf Raise, 4x18-20, 1xFail@-20kg
Hanging Leg Raise, 4x10-15
Plank, 4x1-2min
Donkey Calf Raise, 1x50
Stomach Vacuum, 4x30-60sec

Saturdays:
Barbell Shrugs, 5x3-5
Wrist Roller, 3x3
Insanity Fit Test

Workouts A & B are just a variant of a stronglifts, with difference being more focussed on heavier weight (1x5, instead of 5x5),
and i added specific bicep/tricep work
Calfs get alot of work, since they are my most difficult part
abs need some more work too, cuz a strong core is important
Insanity Fit Test cuz its really good HIIT

Any suggestions on what I should cut out?

Also, if I have the time to do this, is it really hurting my progress? My question is am a overtraining muscle groups?

My goals are to look good and try and hit 1/2/3/4 before summer.

Monday: Check Veeky Forums
Tuesday: Post on Veeky Forums
Wednesday: Comment on Veeky Forums
Thursday: Mirin on Veeky Forums
Friday: Fat to Veeky Forums
Saturday: Shitpost on Veeky Forums
Sunday: Consider reading the Veeky Forums sticky

>did lots of chest

His chest is fucking awful, are you serious?

A: OHP 4x5
Chinups 3x5
Squat 3x5
LightBench 3x15
Curls 3x12
Tricep Pushdowns 3x20

B: Bench 4x5
Pendlay Rows 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Incline Dumbbell Press 3x15
Facepulls 3x20
Plate raises 2x12

Alternate the workout xAxBxAxB etc but squat tues and sat and deadlift on thursdays, Made some pretty goo dgains with this. All final sets are AMRAP.

You don't understand training principles, fuck off.

First, deadlift is primarily a lower body exercise. Second you don't need to do bench and dumbbell bench and chest flies all in the same day. You're not going to recover from that if you're actually moving a decent amount of weight. Third, there's no reason to back squat and front squat in the same workout, they both have virtually the exact same muscle activation. Finally, doing AMRAPs 6x per week is going to very quickly lead to you stalling, and not making progress. I wouldn't even run PPL unless it was much more minimalistic. You're better off doing a full body routine or U/L. You'll recover better between sessions and make progress faster.

okey, time to correct your mistakes:
you absolutely have to do bench/incline/flyes in the same workout, but do heavy work 1 workout, lighter the next
back and front squat do NOT have "virtually the same muscle activation"
back squat uses more hams, where front squat almost completely ignores them, and instead focusses mostly on quads

my tips:
do deadlifts on leg days, and replace deadlift on pull day with rack pull, those work the back more

thanks for the advice!

I don't know how to interpret this
Well, considering pressing movements can be strengthened without tricep isolation, triceps can get stronger without being isolated, so what's your point here?

Can anyone tell me how good/awful this is?

He's so small and weak, he doesn't need to do 2 different benching variations and flys in the same workout. That's way more than the minimum effective dose and more than the optimum amount of volume before gains asymptote.

There is literally no difference in your bar position in terms of muscle activation. Your torso acts a lever and your hip joint is a fulcrum. Changing the bar position changes the lever arm, and torque on your knees, but doesn't change anything else, you're still using the same action to stand back up. Your hamstrings stabilizing muscles during the squat, they stay the same length throughout the movement because they work antagonistic to the quads. Your quads extend the knee, your glutes extend the hip, and your hamstrings keep them stabilized, regardless of bar position. Stop spreading misinformation.

instagram.com/p/Bcaz7TTDtjg/

lol if you think I am small and weak now you should have seen me 35 pounds ago. the bulk never ends