/cocoa/ - #2 Enhanced cow edition

>What is /cocoa/?
Cocoa is for discussing of 'anabolic' cocoa supplementation.

>What are the benefits of cocoa supplementation?
Cocoa extract contains the compounds Procyanidins and Epicatechin.

>What are the benefits of Procyanidins supplementation?
Antioxidant stuff, not particularly relevant to building muscle.

>What are the benefits of Epicatechin supplementation?
Decreased insulin sensitivity. *yawn*
Improved blood flow and oxidation. *yawn*
Follistatin to Myostatin ratio has been observed to increased by 50%, and the natural decrease in myostatin with aging has been prevented within mice!

>What are the downsides of supplementation?
Consuming enough dark chocolate is slightly under 300 kcal.

>What's that mean?
Follistatin and Myostatin are natural blood proteins which encourage and inhibit muscle growth. The level of follistatin decreases with age, whereas that of Myostatin increases with age. By reducing myostatin you are able to improve the 'natty' limit. The cow in pic related is genetically modified to not produce myostatin.

>Citation pls
examine.com/supplements/cocoa-extract/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24314870
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17726519

>What's the recommended dose?
Existing studies have used a daily dose of 40g 75% dark chocolate. split across two servings.
Dark chocolate is often sold in 100g bars of 85% for the same price, so 50g of 85% can be easier to manage.
Due to the interaction of epicatechin with insulin signalling, there may be additional benefits timing supplementation to post-workout prior to a high-gi carb meal.


>Where can I buy cheap dark chocolate?
Amazon has some weird cocoa solids products.
EU, Aldi sells 125g 85%, for €1,09
UK, Tesco sells 100g 85%, for £1.00
(Provide more sugge

Other urls found in this thread:

amazon.co.uk/available-Unsweetened-Chocolate-PINK-SUN/dp/B074XJ6JH6?th=1
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562651/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860900/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

fuck off with this stupid bullshit

Found the guy who's never going to make it because dark chocolate is too bitter.

I am ... intrigued

99% crew checking in

Worst case you acquire a taste for dark chocolate.

I'm 5 days into cocoa supplementation. I'll do this for at least 3 months and report my findings.

I'm cutting right now and it's not hard to manage the extra 300kcals. Also the macros aren't too bad.

>doesnt make absurd promises about obtaining godhod through consumption
I dont know . . .

Increasing the natty limit by eating chocolate is close enough though right?

im more of a 65% kinda guy

That's not a terrible choice, 75% is actually slightly less calories than 85% (fat replaced with sugar). Just means you need to eat slightly more for an adequate dose.

I couldn't stand the bitterness when I started, but after a few days the taste grew on me.

In addition to dark chocolate, you can get it from cocoa powder. Get the raw unsweetened stuff***. I add a couple tsps to my coffee and brew green tea in it for a coffee/green tea/cocoa drink.

The epicatechin in cocoa is also found in green tea, and the EGCG in green tea is supposedly synergystic with caffeine for stim/fat burning effects. Theobromine in cocoa is vasodilatory, which counters the vasoconstrictive effects of caffeine for improved blood flow. L-theanine in green tea counters the jittery effects of caffeine.

Cocoa supposedly contains mood-enhancing substances too, like anandamide (cannabinoid receptor) and phenylethylamine (norepinephrine and dopamine release). All told, my morning drink gives me a warm boost, with improved mood and motivation, and as someone who has dealt with depression and anxiety, the mood benefits are notable and welcome. I can't speak for increased muscle building at this point, though.

***You want the plain unsweetened variety, but watch out for "Dutch" processing or "cocoa processed with alkali" on the label or ingredients list. In an attempt to improve the flavor of raw cocoa by removing some acidity and bitterness, Dutch processing supposedly strips some of the beneficial compounds. Check the label to see if cocoa has been Dutch processed or processed with alkali, as this is often done to darker varieties to improve flavor.

but this Epicatechin is also found in green tea. So it would be more useful to just drink green tea instead of eatign tons of chocolate

>warm boost, with improved mood and motivation

I should also add "without jitters". I'm guessing the L-theanine in the green tea is helping on that front.

these fucks just want to get fat on dark chocolate and pretend it's healthy for them

You can just use cocoa powder, which is low in fat and carbs, and is primarily fiber.

It's also found in Green tea, but it's far more prevalent in cocoa. You'd need to consume a ton of green tea leaves to supplement a suitable dose, good luck with that.

Just be mindful of Dutch processing or "process[ing] with alkali" on the label or ingredients list. That can take away some of the beneficial effects. It's often done to really dark varieties (90% and up) to mellow the flavor. Raw unsweetened cocoa powder is another option (and goes well in chocolate protein shakes), and it usually says right on the label or prominently in the ingredients list if it has been Dutch processed or processed with alkali.

I've never been able to track that down locally (UK) and most Amazon sources are expensive/unclear, it's macro's aren't significantly better than just eating dark chocolate though afaik.

I dont mind the bitter but in terms of preference I find 65% to be something I can eat without even considering im doing something healthy. plus its slightly easier to find in almost all brands since thats their starting point i think

If you're referring to cocoa powder versus dark chocolate macros, cocoa powder has fewer calories and less fat and carbs, and is primarily fiber. The cocoa butter (the primary fat component of cocoa) is pressed out and removed, and the remainder is pulverized into powder.

Ah, misread. Yeah it's about 50% of the calories by looks of it. Still need to find a cheap bulk source however. Even myprotein overcharges.

Ooh this looks promising.
amazon.co.uk/available-Unsweetened-Chocolate-PINK-SUN/dp/B074XJ6JH6?th=1

Is this shit for real or the new onion?

Bringing home chocolate from work huh son? Get a real job

Myprotein sells raw unprocessed cocoa powder, it doesn't sell onions.

So you are telling me, I can not only eat half a kilo meat and enjoy some veggies but also drink my shake with some nice bitter cocoa?!
Sign me the fuck up son!

>>but watch out for "Dutch" processing or "cocoa processed with alkali"
Man, fuck the Dutch.

>>Myprotein.co.uk/onionpowderrange

It has a lot of studies supporting it unlike onions that only have a study on some rats and a balding 38 years old wizard supporting it.
Also cocao doesn't increase testosterone but it has many health benefits + it pushes your natty limit

You're telling me.

I can buy unsweetened cocoa powder. Should I brew it or can I just put it in my drinks?

Dude I love dark chocolate but that shit is inedible

Isn't the danger with myostatin inhibition that your heart grows too big as well?

I'm 37.

Myostatin presence or absence does not seem to have much of an effect on cardiac musculature under normal conditions, at least in mice.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562651/

>Myostatin-null mice do not demonstrate ventricular hypertrophy when compared to wild type mice as shown by echocardiography...and morphometric analyses including heart/body weight ratio...and cardiomyocyte area.
>The physiological role of myostatin in cardiac muscle appears significantly different than that in skeletal muscle as it does not induce cardiac hypertrophy

There would be concern that greatly increased muscle mass could increase peripheral blood demand to a point that results in high-output cardiac failure, but you'd probably have to be a literal mutant (myostatin deficient) or "supplementing" with Vitamin S. Any effect on myostatin that cocoa may have would probably not be enough for concern.

>and morphometric analyses including heart/body weight ratio...and cardiomyocyte area.

[show no significant difference between wild-type and myostatin-deficient mice]*

2018 is gonna be a good year for fit. We've entered into the patrician era of bro-science mono-supplementation.

I really love dark chocolate. As long as you watch your macros, why not?

I am going to melt the chocolate and put walnuts, hazelnuts and almonds in there and pour my very own gainbars

was that supposed to be a comeback?

>no one going to point out this faggot was paid to post this
>(Provide more sugge

More suggestions of places to purchase cocoa products.

Why chocolate?
You can get actual cocoa powder without any of the emulsifiers and sugar they put in chocolate bars.

op are you trying to turn Veeky Forums into low t fags who love chocolate ? because i might be buying your bullshit, but i'm sticking to my tried and true onion, garlic and celery which has been proven to increase test, prevent disease, promote good skin and hair health etc.

So how many grams of cocoa powder is per day to get benefits?

Recommended dose appears to be 40-200mg of epicatechin.

Although the effects of the higher 200mg dose are far less scientifically validated.

Tested cocoa extract has been shown to have around 1.5-2.5mg epicatechin per g.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860900/

Milk chocolate is for soyboys, it also has barely any cocoa in it so it's useless for our purposes.

>believing in the antioxidants meme
>thinking ingesting sugar is good for you

i know that, i just call all of it chocolate, now matter how dark or not it is. but eating cocoa and shit is literal mom science, idk if it is to be trusted

Why not just put cacao powder in your smoothies?

High quality 99% chocolate is actually very palatable. But the shit brand that posted is indeed inedible.

>I find 65% to be something I can eat without even considering im doing something healthy
thats because you're not you fucking imbecile. you realize the remaining percentage is sugar?