5/3/1 boring but big

Redpill me on 5/3/1 BBB

look up nsuns 5/3/1 way better

Meme program

Stop doing cookie cutter programs that catter to the lowest common denominator.

Jim Wendler never accomplished anything lifting wise that warrants that kinda worship, or having written a book to begin with.

> Jim Wendler
> Always advocated heavy steroid use
> Was always agaisnt cardio
> Trained WESTSIDE for over 15+ years
> Made most of his gains using WESTSIDE, under LOUIE SIMMONS
> All of his lifts were made in triple-ply bulletproof squat/bench/deadlift suits
> Only noteworthy achievement was a 500lb raw bench.
> Never took care of his health
> At one point weighted over 300lb+
> Got injuried, couldn't train anymore, decided to create a training system that allowed him to be LAZY and train only the big 4 lifts, 2x a week.
> Decided to make conditioning/cardio his calling banner because like I said, he is old and his method never made him strong again.

If you wanna do a program created by an old lazy washed away has-been that wants to cosplay like a Hell's Angel but never had the courage to join those, a program that never worked even for the author (Wendler's records were set when he was being trained by Tate or Simmons under the Westside methodology), then feel free to waste your time.

Its not only boring it'll make you look dyel as fuck even if you do get strong

If you're gonna do a powerlifting program do westside or tm

for first year lifters

I’m currently doing it while focusing on hypertrophy. What program would be better?

Don't forget that he STILL makes facebook/blog posts about HIS AWESOME BEARD, and how real men MUST wear plaid or metal band shirts all the time.

>I’m currently doing it while focusing on hypertrophy.

Are you training for bodybuilding? You are better off doing a bodybuilding program. There are many out there that are LEGIT.

If you are a beginner I recommend you read up on Max-OT or Y3T. If you wanna build strength AND size, you should read Frederick Hatfield, Charles Poliquin or Josh Bryant for material (I say read, because they only put out books designed to teach you how to train, they don't write down programs).

For powerlifting, read up the Westside method, then read over to JTSS and read up on how Chad Wesley Smith suggest people modify it for raw lifting ( I recommend you google how others have modified it too, Brian Alsruhe on youtube has very good videos on it).

Other good reading material for both PL and Hyperthrophy:

> Poliquin
> Chad Wesley Smith
> Dan Green
> Stan Efferding
> Dan Jon
> Josh Bryant
> Dave Tate
> Jaime Lewis (dude from Chaos and Pain, as meme as it sounds, he really makes his research and covers a lot of training methods)
> Chris Duffin
> Paul Waggener (ignore his philosophical musings, I list him here because he is a smart guy that is reaching "intermediate" strength, and he is doing well, and he explains every training article he finds in depth, not only that, he tests it out and reports back to the audience.)

I'd recommend you take whatever lifter/athletes that you like, read about what they do, try to find the logic behind it and try it out/make it work for you. It's the best way to learn. I attended the Dan Green/Stan Efferding seminar and they pretty much said they learned how to train by looking at others, learning, them applying it themselves.

When it comes to physical training, remember the only good shit that came out of Ubisoft.
> Nothing is true, everything is permited

Jesus Christ, what a faggot.

what makes it better?

suggest a better routine then

115kg bench
67kg ohp
160kg dl
120kg squat

stop neglecting your squat fagtron

look it up why its diferent

>created by
LOL he ripped off and neutered the program he lifted weights with when playing high school football.

See pic related.

The fuck? Actual information on Veeky Forums?

Thanks for this user.

well no shit it is different, I asked how it is better.

pyramid build up for your main lifts and calculates the exact weight for all your main lifts on calculator then increase weight by 2,5kg if completed X amount of reps on the main set

I’m just trying to put on mass so I can go back to powerlifting without stalling as much. I’m at 1/2/3/4pl8 at 160ibs.

Day 1: Squat
- Squat: 75% 4x 3-5reps, 60% x12 reps x2
- Pause Squat or Front Squat: 60% of Squat 1RM, 2x8reps or 5x3-5reps
- Defict RDL: 45-50% DL 1RM, 4x6-8reps
- Leg Press, Leg Extension, Leg Curl: whatever
- Heavy Abdominal Movement: 5x10

Day 2: Bench
- Bench Press: 7RM, 4 sets of 5
- Wide-grip Paused Bench Press: 60% of bench 1RM, 3 sets of 12
- Close-Grip Bench Press: 60% of 1RM, 3 sets of 12 OR: Weighted Dips, 4 sets of 8. (use a chain to hold plates to your waistline)
- Incline DB Bench Press: 100 reps, rest 15 secs only, as many sets as needed.
- Pull-ups: 5x10, add reps wherever you can.

Day 3: Deadlift
- Conventional Deadlift: 1x12, 2x10, 2x8, 1x6 then 2-3 sets at 75%-80% for 2-3 reps, work technique
- Speed Deadlifts: 65% DL 1RM, 5x3
OR
- Block Deadlifts (mid shin): take the weight you worked up with for DL, add/make 5-10 pound jumps for DL, 2-3 sets, anywere from 1 to 5 reps.
- Heavy Abdominal movement: 5x10
- Barbell Row or DB Row: 4x10
- Shrugs: 5x20-40

Day 4: OHP
- Strict OHP: 70%, 8 sets, 3 reps.
- Seated DB OHP (pause at bottom): 4 sets, 12-15 reps.
- Triceps compound movement: 5 sets, 12-15 reps
- Whatever you wanna do for rear/lat delt
- Upright Rows

Day 5, 6 or 7:
- Days to do extra work. Arms, abs, calves, etc.

nice meme

> I’m just trying to put on mass so I can go back to powerlifting without stalling as much. I’m at 1/2/3/4pl8 at 160ibs.

Sounds like a problem with your diet, not how you train IMO. I'd recommend that for now you train like you are, even tho 5/3/1 is a cookie cutter program, it works, like everything else, so we need to take a look at how you eat.

What's your diet like?

I figured there are people here that wanna legit change their lives/make improvements, instead of memeing all the way.

At least I was like that and it made me mad nobody here got me serious info besides meme-programs or Veeky Forums circlejerking programs, so I try to help with what I know.

I'm doing it right now with some great results.

It's nice getting to do 5, 3, and 1 rep maxes, instead of just 5's for everything like on SS, Madcow, etc. Slow and steady wins the race I've found.

A few modifications though:
- For squat, I do the "I'm not doing jack shit today"
- For deadlift, I don't do the 5x10 @50%, instead I do accessories.

He just posted a Westside routine.
fucking wanker

How tall are you? Gain weight.

Follow Burley Hawk on instagram. INSANELY strong human, and everyday he posts a FREE conjugate method workout for the day. Basically, he coaches people through instagram for free.

WARNING: This dude is basically what you get when you merge /b/ with a redneck and hercules, so in addition to the free training info, he also posts a lot of Unabomber/Alt-Right shit.

His stats:
> 600lb bench
> 800lb+ deadlift and squat
> 400lb ohp
> 20+ pull-ups at over 300 pounds

I would pay good money if someone spammed this all over EliteFTS and Wendler's facebook page so we can end this 5/3/1 meme cult forever.

>I'd also love to read Wendler spazz out.

I've had a lot of success with Chad Wesley Smith's stuff. The gist of it isn't complicated:

>sub-maximal lifting focusing on the big 4
>lots of volume + less specific + lighter tapering into less volume + more specific + heavier.


Most programing for strength is pretty common sense.

Just don't forget that it should be hard work. This is where Jim fucked up.

Well I’m 160ibs at 6’9’’ eating plenty of protein, fat and some carbs. I don’t count macros and calories atm, but I’m gaining weight, which giving me the skinnyfat look.

Breakfast
>4 eggs
>4 slices of rugbread
>1 glass of whole milk
>butter
>olive oil
>30g of nuts
>100g of cottage cheese
>100g of greek youghurt
>1 spoon of fish oil
Dinner
>1 meat
>brown rice
>1/2 avocado
>vegetables
>olive oil

Midnight snack
>2 slices of rugbread
>cheese and ham
>1 protein shake
>30g of nuts
>1 banana

>6'9"
>160

please be a typo mr skeletal

What is it about lifting weights that attract so many weird, disfunctional individuals?

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, I JUST WANT TO LIFT WEIGHTS AND HAVE A HUGE BICEPS AND DRINK BEER WITHOUT FEELING BAD ABOUT IT, I DON'T WANT TO BECOME A GAY STRAIGHT-EDGE BIKER VEGAN THAT WORSHIPS BEARDS, BEARS AND BOY ASS

>5’9’’
I’m a manlet

is it as natural better to follow a program that focuses on strength like power lifting since thats what i heard alot

See, my personal take on this is that you aren't eating enough.

Your food selection is great, but I'd add two more meals in there between breakfast and dinner, and make sure I got at least some form of meat with every meal.


But simple changes might suffice.

You could start by eating 6 whole eggs on Breakfast, another 6 whole eggs on dinner, a double helping of protein for the midnight snack.

Then over time, I'd suggest you add Lunch, and maybe have a good steak/chicken/fish, with good vegetables. Then add another form of meat to your midnight snack in addition to protein.

Gaining mass is about eating more callories than your body expends. Don't worry about macros for now, just try to eat "more" than you currently are, but for now that "more" should come in the form of more protein and healthy fats, and avoid carbs as much as possible (the amount you are eating now is fine).

If you want to be strong you will have to build muscle.

You probably shouldn't lift for aesthetics because it's a much harder (if not impossible) thing to objectively measure and this will in all likelihood fuck you up psychologically (just look around Veeky Forums).

Forget about the "as a natural" or "as a steroid user" bullshit.

All programs work user. Some more than others, but all works. If you are training agaisnt resistance and eating correctly, then your fucking muscles will grow. That's pretty much all you need. All steroids do is make your body more efficient at recovery/building muscle (think of it as a healing factor).

It's perfectly possible to make strength gains on a bodybuilding program or vice-versa. What you need to do for now is:

1) Ignore all meme/circlejerk advice (A good rule of thumb on identifying false/bad information: if whoever is writting is uses absolutes ("ONLY THIS WORKS! NOTHING ELSE DOES!") then it's 100% BS.
2) Train in whatever split you want, as long as you make sure you are training these 4 lifts or some variation of them: Deadlift, Bench, Squat, Overhead Press
3) Eat more calories than you expend
4) Grow.

Addendum:

You also need to forget about "12-week" programs, or "9-week periodization".

TRUE CHANGE happens over A YEAR, minimum, so don't short change yourself by thinking you'll look better when whatever program you are following ends.

>avoid carbs as much as possible

I disagree. For gaining mass it's better to keep protein at 1-1.5g/lb and increase carbs (and fats where convenient) Reason being that it's simply much easier to eat enough food if you're not cramming your face with stuff with a high satiety index.

thanks user
i always do those and also do some barbell rows and weighed chin ups , since ive only been training strength focused , is there any more hypertrophy/bodybuilding focused routine that uses all the main compounds?

>Reason being that it's simply much easier to eat enough food if you're not cramming your face with stuff with a high satiety index.

Yeah, but I'd prefer if he started ketogenic and then slowly introduced carbs.

Can you imagine what kind of gains he would make, given the newly-gained sensitivy to insulin (from being keto), and the slow introduction of carbs? Man, that mofo will blow-up as soon as his receptors pick up that sweet glucose.

Shit, if one were to cycle from a Keto diet, to a period were that individual consumes carbs, one would essentially be using natural insulin spikes (from carbs) in the very same way bodybuilders use exogenous insulin.

What I'm getting at here is...THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES MY NIGGA.

Also, by going Keto, he can't possibly put on much bodyfat, which pretty much removes the risk of him turning chubby-strong.

>is there any more hypertrophy/bodybuilding focused routine that uses all the main compounds?

Hyperthrophy is mostly dictated by training volume.

So you can still train the main compounds, just train them in a bodybuilding fashion! (which is what bodybuilders do).

For example

On Chest day:
- Bench: 1x12, 1x10, 1x8, x6, 1x20
*(then your usual chest day exercises)

On Back day:
- Deadlifts: *same as bench*

On Leg Day:
- Squats: *same*

On Shoulder Day:
- Standing or Seated OHP: *same*

>is there any more hypertrophy/bodybuilding focused routine that uses all the main compounds?
Not him, but do your strength routine and at the end of it, do some blowout rest-pause or drop-set pump shit with curls and triceps and some db lateral raises and reverse flies and a set of high-rep calf raises on the hack squat machine, all that shit won't take long if you split it up at the end of your 3-4 strength sessions a week and that'll put muscles in your mirror.

Its the other way round, less fats, more carbs

Seems like the sort of thing he could (and should) try after he gets to a high enough bf% to justify cutting.

Cut on keto (easy because basically nothing but high satiety foods) then mass on carbs and get the benefit of increased insulin sensitivity from the keto.

THIS THIS THIS

these are my main lifts i have a second sheet with accessory exercises for each day

this is with accessory exercises , should i swap any exercises on the list or add any change reps/sets?

>Seems like the sort of thing he could (and should) try after he gets to a high enough bf% to justify cutting.

But user, I've bulked on keto before (I had to do an Atkins diet at the time), from 180 to 210, and I swear to you my bf went from 12% to 13%. All I did was add 3 eggs or 200g bacon to each of my meals (which were usually a chicken + salad and some oil or nut + protein shake at night).

If I could eat carbs (I don't have a pancreas), I think that, even 200g worth would cause me to gain a lot of muscle pretty fast, maybe get me up to 218-220, (I figure the body is gonna feed the tissue it is using the most, with the training and all), so with that I could then go back to zero-carb, try to hold on the weight, and then introduce carbs again, say, 3 months later and maybe solidify myself at 220lb?

All theory of course, but everything I read here and on other sites (I have a subscribtion to that "Mountain Dog Diet" guy dude) seems to add it.

But, really, I also figured that, if keto worked for me when I began, it might work for that user. And plus, who doesn't wanna eat bacon?

No mate, it's perfect as it is, looks really balanced and well thought. I'm pretty sure that you hit the bullseye here. The idea I was trying to convey was that you can mix "powerlifting training" with "hyperthrophy training" and reap all the benefits, strength and hyperthrophy go hand in hand in the real world (reason why the strongest animals in nature tend to be huge).

I'd swap pushdowns for skullcrushers and add some sort of good morning or rdl (having a strong good morning will help prevent injury if a squat ever goes poorly)

> I've bulked on keto before

I tried this once and it sucked. I'm not saying your way won't work, it sounds like a solid plan, just maybe making things harder than they need to be.

Sounds awful, plus with those stats he's obviously heavily roiding.

The worry I have with these kinds of splits, where the Deadlift is used, is that the backs of the shoulders and the upper back don't really have any day off, they're being worked 4x/week. For example, the upper back gets it on Tuesday and Friday with the main lifts, and then gets it again on Monday with the rows and Thursday with the face pulls.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd put pulling stuff and facepulls and biceps and calves on the same day as deadlifts. I'd use a cable rowing machine, or a chest-supported t-bar row, or single-handed db rows, instead of barbell rows on those days, to put less stress on the lower back. I'd then put all the pushing, triceps, chest, and lateral delt stuff on the days with the pressing.

I'd also probably ditch leg accessories that aren't for your calves, because squats AND deads together are plenty for legs.

Not a fan of planks etc. at all when doing a routine that squats and deads and overhead presses each twice a week. Plenty of "core" work already.

So what's the verdict on 5/3/1 BBB lads ?
And what should i do instead ? Just came off linear progression.

5x10@50% is too light to be worth doing

either bump it up to 5x10@62-65% or do a different program: juggernaut, tm, some sort of conjugate, etc

Quality discussion in this thread lads. Has Veeky Forums turned a corner?

Dont be a faggot and run ppl for fucks sake.

TM seems to be squat focused and to neglect upper body lifts. I fell for the SS meme and now my upper body lifts are laughable, i dont give a shit about powerlifting, i just want to be strong as fuck.

texas method to bring up squat
then look into cowboy method

>no dynamic days
>a ohp day
that is not westside

>This dude is basically what you get when you merge /b/ with a redneck and hercules, so in addition to the free training info, he also posts a lot of Unabomber/Alt-Right shit.
wtf I love this guy now

please oh please dont do madcow for upper body

a fucking brosplit is better.