You do know you have to pay tax every time you make a trade right?

I've only made like 20 trades this year total though

Yes Mr. Shekelstein, I'm a good goy, you'll get your cut I promise.

He's right though. Was it Form 8949? Any time you trade any property for anything you need to record the cost basis and fair market value at the time of trade.
irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8949.pdf

No you dont

sure bud. just give me US citizenship first and then we'll talk.

.... how the fuck is the IRS gonna know either way? i know it's sometimes fun to pretend to be retarded, but c'mon...

You guys are going to get fucked hard by the IRS a couple years down the road.

If you have any serious money in this you've had to provide sites with some of your personal information to make transfers, they will in turn inform the IRS of your activities.

they'll know if you make it, if you don't it doesn't fucking matter

Like
Kind
Exchange

Ill be comfy in Tokyo by then tough luck kid

Any of the following:

-sees your large cash withdraws

-puts pressure on exchanges to release documents

-sees that new lambo and million dollar house you just bought

Doesn't apply. At least by default. You'd have to report every single trade on this two page form and get it approved to defer gains as like-kind.

irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

Have not heard of one person successfully doing it and many accountants say it's inappropriate for crypto.

They disallowed like kind exchange treatment for precious metals, why would you think they'd allow it for cryptos? Also even if you want to do like kind exchange you're still required to report them that year or you forfeit your right to use that tax treatment for those trades in the future.

You pay at the end of the year. When you trade you trade haven't made any gains. When you file your taxes you have to pay the capital gains tax for that year. It's not hard.

Yeah, it is.

But I mean, do I seriously have to report my Bitbean trades? None of it was purchased with USD, it was all exchanged with other crypto.

>But I mean, do I seriously have to report my Bitbean trades?
Yes.

You have a list of transaction history. Just print it out at the end of the year and look at your gains.

What if Bittrex and Binance have none of my personal info?

I'm a ghost. The only thing that's tied to me is Coinbase.

As long as, at any time, I don't have more than 200k in the sum of all trades I don't have to pay taxes for the trades. I then only have to pay taxes for the winnings at the end of the year. (Switzerland, but depends on the canton/state)

this
All coinbase has is me pushing out coins to wallets

nobody believe this thread. it's not correct. they're just trying to FUD crypto in general with tax shit.

How do you work in transfer costs, such as the gas fee on an eth transfer? Do you get to reduce that from your taxes in any way?

What if someone would sell a bitocin to bitpanda and let them transfer the fist to neteller or Skrill and this someone uses a neteller or Skrill credit card to buy stuff or get money?

This

Unless you live in the Netherlands

Unfortunately it doesn't matter. In their guidance they say general tax laws that apply to property apply to crypto. You have to figure out the "fairmarket value" by converting everything to the USD value at the time of the trade by using Bitbean/BTC to BTC/USD. That's why you can't get out of paying taxes in fiat by only bartering.

You'll probably be fine if you never cash out more bitcoins than you provably bought on coinbase. If you cash out more than you'll have an inconsistancy in your records and might get audited. Also keep in mind the IRS is working very hard to get access to coinbase records and working with a company called ChainAlysis to figure out where coins were sent on the blockchain. You're taking the bet that in the next 10 years they'll never figure out you sent anything to a Bittrex or Binance address because that's the statue of limitations for taxes.

You will probably get away with it, particularly if you end up cashing out after moving to another country. Just be aware that you its still breaking the law so its up to you if you want to take that risk.

guys he's right. don't be retarded.

>Unfortunately it doesn't matter. In their guidance they say general tax laws that apply to property apply to crypto. You have to figure out the "fairmarket value" by converting everything to the USD value at the time of the trade by using Bitbean/BTC to BTC/USD. That's why you can't get out of paying taxes in fiat by only bartering.

What does this mean? I moved BTC to buy the shitcoin REQ and I lost money, then I unloaded my bags to get NEO and I made some of it back. I'm down 500 USD from my initial transfer to Binance. What am I supposed to pay taxes on?

when you made money on NEO

I made 100 grand from ETH on Coinbase. Do I just print out a tax sheet from coinbase then hand it to the accountant at the local h&rblock then I'm good to go? They only charged like $30 to do my taxes last year.

>mfw pajeets pays less taxes in crypto than burgers

You won't have to pay taxes if you have net loss in USD value of your portfolio. use bitcoin.tax to figure it out.

>What does this mean? I moved BTC to buy the shitcoin REQ and I lost money, then I unloaded my bags to get NEO and I made some of it back. I'm down 500 USD from my initial transfer to Binance. What am I supposed to pay taxes on?
Nothing, you can claim a $500 loss to offset any other capital gains you may have had throughout the year.
Yeah, though if you haven't actually sold the ETH(this includes for other crypto) then its not a realized gain and you don't have to claim it.

>Also keep in mind the IRS is working very hard to get access to coinbase records and working with a company called ChainAlysis to figure out where coins were sent on the blockchain.
>what is a Bitcoin tumbler

Bump for answer on this. I don't know how to enter in marketplace-to-marketplace transfer fees when it comes to taxes. If I don't put anything, it looks like I'm hiding funds. Is it consider a 'trade' since it goes from one wallet to another?

thats fuckin gay i'm not paying shit until i make money

in fact burgers can claim this against income up to 3k

Fuck paying taxes

Good luck catching me

I buy thru coinbase and send to binance and other exchanges and they don't know shit

Even if you're caught, you just pay what you owe with a penalty. They would rather settle than hunt you down or throw you in jail

I'll take my chances and hope the dollar or gov itself collapses and crypto takes over

I just bought NEO. I lost more on REQ. I'm sure that at the end of the year you see what you have made on your trades in total and pay taxes on that. Everytime NEO goes up I'm not going to pay an additional tax.

Are you retarded?

helps pay for public toilets

I was just messing with you

i hope this is a fucking larp because theyre about to go through all coinbase user

Sorry citizen, but this is the land of the free. We have a 20% capital tax on crypto losses. You lost 500 usd, now you need to pay 100 usd.

Though one thing to bear in mind is that H&R Block will be charging you more than $30 this year. They charge per form they need to file and yours will be more complicated than a simple 1040EZ this year(I'm assuming that's what it was last year because that's roughly what their pricing is).

hahahaa

Everyone would lose their shit. That makes me pissed just thinking about it

still what you said seems to be the way they want to do things according to the 30 minutes when i gave a shit and looked it up online. they gotta figure this shit out in a simple way before i pay them anything

what about other countries? I'm from a third world shithole, so I don't use coinbase. I'm free from the shackles of the jewvernment?

What? Isn't it just value of USD cash into the exchange vs USD cash once you cash out? If I put 250 on and cash out 500 then I pay tax on the $250 profit, right? Why do I need to track each trade? Does saving my Binance history log count as good enough?

Reminder that the United States and Eritrea are the only countries in the world where citizens are fully taxed no matter where they are or where they live in the world.

America is a fucking joke. Land of the free my ass.

yes binance history is good enough, you need to record them for if they audit you

oh and the usd thing is a fucking meme, pajeets have been spreading this to try and fuck over westerners

>Have to

Funny choice of words.

If I cash out less than $10,000 from coinbase it doesn't get reported to the IRS right?

No. As this guy's accountant grandfather says, you report every trade on From 8949.
If you put that you bought 1 bitcoin and then later cashed out 2 bitcoins you'll be insta-audited because you'll have an inconsistency on your records. You'd have to put every step of how that 1 bitcoin turned into two. If you report taxes, you cannot do it half-assed or show any inconsistancies, ever, or tyrone will have your ass in jail for tax fraud.

EVERY
SINGLE
TRADE
IS
TAXED.

Open your ass, burger-anons. And welcome in the sweaty hot cock of the IRS.

fuck this shit new zealand here i come. they'll have to send in a fuckin platoon to pry it from my cold dead hands

you will be fine, nobody gives a shit about 10k, your parents dont care, asian sluts dont care, the taxman doesnt fucking care

is that all it takes?

>land of the free

If the banks even suspect you're cashing out less than $10,000 to avoid reporting requirements they have to file a suspicious activity report to the IRS. Then they can seize all your assets or throw your ass in jail with Tyrone for "structuring". It's sort of a "thought crime". There have been some ridiculous cases of people being prosecuted for structuring.

i think they offer a one off 4 year tax free period for certain circumstances if you migrate, i havn't looked into it in detail but it could be an option for people who make it, it's a nice place too

yes, multiple withdrawals exceeding 10k are obviously not going to work

>cashed out 1 million in 2013.
>didnt pay tax
>nothing ever happened

dont believe the memes

no you don't trading Asset for Asset is not a taxable trade, trading Asset for Fiat is taxable. You don't pay taxes on Stocks until you move them into Fiat Same with Crypto you moron, but thanks for being so new - hope you enjoy those LINK Bags.

>trading Asset for Asset
This is called barter and yes barter is taxable.

You can include it as an investment fee which would increase your cost basis. Let's say that you bought $500 worth of NEO using bitcoin that you had transferred in. The transfer fee to transfer that BTC in was $10, instead of your basis being $500 it would be $510.

This makes total sense to me.

When stocks are "traded," it's actually a fiat transaction taking place. When crypto is traded, there's no fiat involved, hence it's asset for asset.

How does margin trading play into this? What if you made or lost a ton on margin trading?

Where are you getting that from? Did you even read the IRS tax guidance?

irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
>Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for other property?
>Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

How does the fact that trading crypto for ANY OTHER PROPERTY results in a taxable gain or loss give you the impression that it's only for trading for fiat? Oh, and all cryptos are considered property, so an altcoin trade would be a property > property trade.

And the reason you don't pay taxes on stocks until you sell them for fiat is because there's no stock / stock pairs. If there were, it would be the same thing.

this. its not the gubmints money ITS THE BLOCKCHAINS MONEY AND THE BLOCKCHAIN DOESNT NEED TAXES TO RUN ITSELF SO FUCK YOU IRS

There is no regulation or rules on any of this shit. No one knows anything.

I'm just going to pay taxes when I cash out. If Uncle Sam wants to buttfuck me then so be it, prison would be better than this wageslave prison anyway

Are you American?

2013 were different times. People have been jailed for FAR less. Crypto is under immense scrutiny now that it is mainstream.

To anyone reading his post thinking they can get away with it too...be careful. I suggest paying the man what you owe.

>Did you even read the IRS tax guidance?
Of course they haven't. Couple of dumbasses convinced that they know what's going on while not even having done the slightest bit of research.

>There have been some ridiculous cases of people being prosecuted for structuring.

I've heard of low cashflow restaurants having this issue and having all of their assets frozen.

The thing I'm hoping for is APMEX or some other bullion seller that will start accepting Bitcoin.

JM Bullion accepts bitcoin

This could work if you just want to hide gold bars under your bed

I've been trading stocks for years, you don't pay taxes on Paper profit until you turn it into Fiat... sometimes I really do wonder about Americans
fool.com/knowledge-center/how-much-tax-do-i-have-to-pay-on-stocks-if-i-sell.aspx

Do what I do.
Store the bitcoins internationally and trade them internationally.

If no money or goods enters US jurisdiction, they have no claim.

Sage.

And no, my CPA friend confirmed fir me that crypto is an asset and you onky are taxed when you sell an asset for $$$, nit when you trade an asset for another asset. It's a huge legal loophole that Congress has not closed. You can literally trade all your crypto for gold and its no tax is due until you sell the gold for currency.

you only pay taxes when you convert back to FIAT right now

nope

exactly, I went over this extensively with my tax lawyer. I had only 4 BTC I bought for $100 each, I sold a few weeks back at $7700 - (2 went to over 10oz of gold with JM Bullion) which is not taxable until I sell the gold.
2 went back into Crypto trading. I don't owe a Dime on taxes until I pull out over $400 (My initial investment)

Britbong here, willing to store any fatclaps bitcoin in secure wallets here in the UK for no fee.

Just transfer and I'll handle the rest.

So if you went all in on some alt coin, it mooned and you made bookoo bucks, and you had to trade it to BTC in order to cash out you'd have to pay taxes twice??????

>JM Bullion accepts bitcoin

Fuck. This opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

>This could work if you just want to hide gold bars under your bed

I know that was supposed to be a bit of a jab but yes that's actually more intelligent than storing fiat in the bank. You can freeze my bank account, you can't do shit about my big gun safe that no one knows about.

no, the gain would be realized on the trade to BTC

I've been doing audit assistance for years, to help people out of messes they've made. Barring a like kind exchange, which probably would be disallowed for crypto and even if its not you'd need a 8824 form for each one, any exchange of property is taxable. If you gave someone stock in exchange for a painting, that's still a taxable transaction by law.

crypto into USD is taxed, but they have no idea how to deal with alt-coins and have no guidelines on this matter yet

aka we're good

>You can literally trade all your crypto for gold and its no tax is due until you sell the gold for currency.
good to know

i c

hahaha
at first I was mad at all of this even though I'm not american, but fuck this is actually hilarious HAHAHAHA
daytraders, swingtraders, bot users, you're all going to jail because I don't think you will be able t fucking calculate 9989889988 trades done over the year swingtrading dogecoin for niggercoin'
holy shit I'm laughing
every single fucking thread, Land of the free, my God, what a madness