How Jewish should dwarfs be?

The language he based on Semitic, like Hebrew. The dwarfs were specifically Jewish. Journey for their lost homeland and diaspora status and all.

Not to mention the noses, stature, greed and beards.

And also all their good features. I think it's fairly important to note Tolkien thre that in as well.

Wandering skilled workers who know how to keep a hold of their wealth, have a strong sense of community, and are searching for a lost homeland?

Speaking as someone who grew up jewish, they Jews. Hell, the entire "going mad over gold" thing is ripped from an old tale in the Talmud.

They already are pretty Jewish.

-Often have a lost homeland they want to reclaim.
-Keep their own, often secret gods.
-Sequester their women and guard them vigilantly.
-Grow long beards as adults and do not brook any sort of interference with them.
-Often associated with craftsmen, especially metalworkers and jewelers.

Even in settings that discard Tolkien, this is all often still true. There are some oddballs, like the one where dwarfs almost never even see their women.

Well, how Jewish they *should* be of course varies from DM to DM.

For my own part I actually tend to take inspiration from Tsarist Russia through the 19th century. The dwarves were hugely powerful back in the day and on paper are still a mighty force, but their isolationism and traditionalism have led to stagnation in the face of the advancement of other races; and their leaders today are not up to the same tasks that their leaders from centuries ago were.

>often secret
Name one setting where dwarves worship a secret god

Yeah, Tolkien was surprisingly tolerant of Jews for his time.

How many settings besides Sapkowski's feature dwarfish bankers?

Eberron, House Kundarak.

They're more from the Norse Dwarfs in crafting & shit.

bump for dorfwank

Tolkien himself seemed like a weird mix of different political ideologies and religous views. (Hated Nazi's and Germanys aproch to Nordic mythology, but hated the allies using total war, and want the British Empire and united kingdom up)
So basically, a normal human being that just hated changes to his personal life.

>comparing dwarves to jews
shameful senpai

Tolkien's Dwarves are based on jews. He even said so

My main problem with this is that Dwarves aren't afraid of hard work and manual labor

While the stereotype of the diaspora Jew is that of a rich merchant or banker, statistically speaking, especially in Eastern Europe, most Jews were starving poor. While they were ever so slightly better educated than the average Polish serf, for example (one advantage of their religious lifestyle meant literacy was always nearly universal, even in times where it was otherwise rare) their social status made it near impossible to get good jobs. They'd work as woodsmen, miners, fishermen, or at most, small time craftsmen (like shoemakers and coopers, not goldsmiths). The situation of the Orthodox Jews in Israel today is unique: according to Jewish law, "Bread comes before the Torah", meaning one should not dedicate their lives to religion if that would cause their family to starve. It's a very practical guideline for a time where the Jews were a practical people. Unfortunately, the Israeli Orthodox Jews have decided to stretch that guideline into "...and if it's possible to assure your family wouldn't starve, you MUST dedicate your life to religion over any other work". Since the law in Israel allows them to live off welfare, THEY SEE IT AS THEIR SACRED DUTY NOT TO DO ANY PRODUCTIVE WORK. They just study the Torah and pray every single day of their adult lives.

They miss and long for their homeland.
They are pretty insular, though they have a strong tradition of appreciation for non-Dwarf friends of their community. They are suspicious of outsiders, but if you manage to befriend a Dwarf, the whole community will general have a good opinion of you.
There's a certain amount of prejudice and conspiracy theories about them, but most of it's unfounded.
Despite a lot of comical physical stereotypes about them, they've actually got a history as pretty fearsome warriors.
Their religion is an important aspect of their culture, though not all Dwarfs practice it. It has influenced many major religions in the world, but the "pure" Dwarf religions is practiced more or less exclusively by Dwarves.
Love wine, gambling and a good costume party, yet are also pretty dour in a lot of their traditions.

Actually, the most stereotypical job for a diaspora Jew was a paddler, which is still technically a merchant (read Shai Agnon's "The Lady and the Peddler"), just a very, very poor one. While it's true most of them were probably either farmers or miners, depending on geography, that's like pointing out most medieval Scandinavians were not actually pirates.

For another example, consider the folklore of diaspora Jews: the main character is almost always either a wandering peddler or Talmid (Jewish scholar, but you need to understand that in context this has no associations with wealth. A very good Talmid can still live hand to mouth). Generally speaking the plot involves them wandering/traveling into a new community, running into some kind of human or supernatural problem such a cruel boyar or a ghost, and either defeating them or, more commonly, escaping them with their lives using the powers of logic and theological knowledge.

>but most of it's unfounded

That was very informative and interesting thank you. It's nice to see something about jews that isn't related to gas.

Might that not be because those are the two jobs that travel from town to town? Very fun to hear about the folktales though.

>this thread isn't full of /pol/ level garbage
impressive.

>Your face when it's actually full of /pol/ but you haven't gotten triggered yet because they're hiding their power levels

I'm here, I don't see anything wrong.
dwarves are jews, it's plain to see.

>confirmation bias
classic /pol/

>confirmation bias
Tolkien said it, quite plainly.

Wait, if the dwarves were diaspora Jews, and the Lonely Mountain is Israel, would that make Smaug the Palestinians?

>Smaug the Palestinian
From a race that is:
Greedy
Cunning
Spits fire
Extremely violent
Has Satanic overtones

Yeah, sounds about right.

Warhammer had a Dwarf in Marienburg, Arkat Fooger IIRC, inventing the insurance business. The plot hook was that he he was the one who got exploited. Great npc to use, a community leader for all non-humans in Marienburg, but not many ties to the old culture which made the minority of more traditional dwarves resentful.

That would be Esgaroth. They were the guys that stayed and adapted.
Dorfs just did not start with the whole "only Jews are people!" thing.

But Esgaroth is Novgorod

They are nordic anyway.

>faggy midgets obsessed with wealth
>nordic

Nice try, Isaac

name one where they don't

you'll find the /pol/fags in the aussie thread complaining about monkey conspirations:

Wolsung has Jewish gnomes

Don't forget that they mourn by tearing their clothes and sitting silent for 7 days.

Extremely.

Jew here, can confirm that the Hasidim are the worst possible human beings.

GO read Discworl. Roughly that Jewish.

Aren't Hasidim the good kind of ultra-Orthodox?

How many fantasy settings feature banking full stop?

Aside from the jews, there is a lot of the Nibelungen in Tolkien's dwarfs.
The rings, the lust for treasure, kingdom of miners living in fortresses in the mountains. And Alberich their king was a dwarf often pictured as bearded, too.

I think they got their shit wrecked and had to leave their mines in some old poem, but it has been a long time since I've read norse or germanic mythology.

modern banking or medieval banking?

A thing to remember with tolkien is that he was basing the jewish aspects of dwarves off of middle ages rather than modern stereotypes and folklore.
That's why the idea of dwarves as jewelers and craftsman is considered a jewish trait.

Most likely, he found similarities between the nibelungen and medieval jews, then decided to mix the two archetypes together. So that's why the dwarven language uses a nordic runic style script but the language itself is semitic.

In grammar.

Tolkien was an obsessive linguist. Some even claim that he invented Middle Earth primarily for the reason of having a "linguistic playground" within which he could experiment with new forms of language as if they belonged to a real culture. He was inspired by the grammar of Semitic languages when designing Khudzul (or whatever the dwarf language is called). I don't actually know Semitic grammar so I have no idea about the specific influences, though.

...

...

...

Holy fucking damn.

Fili, Kili, Oin, Gloin, and Schlomo.

In the 1800s
-Persians have big noses
-Arabs are greedy
-Turks complain about everything
-Jews are sneaky

In the 1900s
-Jews have big noses
-Jews are greedy
-Jews complain about everything
-Jews are sneaky

I miss the loss of diversity in our stereotypes...

I'd say about 40-60% depending on how viking they are

He just hated war, even when he knew it needed to be done.

He also called Nordicists retarded, which was great because it was still that time when there where actual Nordicists.

His experiences in WWI and with industrialized warfare made him disillusioned about war being some great and glorious thing. Having actually experienced it, he was a lot more cognizant of the horrors of war than most upper class british.

Jewy, the Eighth dwarf nobody talks about.

He apparently had a bit of a problem when he made "dwarvish-sounding" names like Balin and Thorin and so on, with a fairly strong norse base, but then came up with the Semitic language for the dwarves and struggled to get the two to mesh, as Semetic names are nothing like that. But being a linguist and a massive nerd, he stressed over it, then got it to work, from a linguistic point of view.

Two things

First, Jews are everywhere - they spread out, and after a good few thousand years of being kicked out of places they have a culture that preserves itself when moved - it's very similar in a lot of places, even if it's been somewhere for years (also why you see Jewish bankers, peddlers, merchants, doctors, academics, lawyers and comedians, none of those things require property, and all of them pretty much work anywhere, so long as you're good at learning).
So they're everywhere, and basically the same, which is useful when more people talk to people from other countries - coming together to bitch about the Jews across the continent, who while they might not be the BEST examples of big noses/greed/complainers, they are at least consistently big nosed/greedy/complaining, are at least people you can all agree are big nosed/greedy/complaining

Second, the diaspora from half a continent to the US, which will then go on to dominate media in the west. Add the comedians and actors (again, professions that don't require much, and aren't traditional to any respectable class) and Jews become a big force, especially as the cultural impact of the Old World fades

Completely agree.
No, they aren't. You know the crazy ultra-conservative Christians? yeah, that's the Hasidim. They're the ones getting the fucking insane laws passed in Israel, and they control the Chief Rabbi of Israel (who they claim to be in charge of all Jews, unless said Jew is not a Jew and therefore a culture-killing heretic), who has stated that all laws of Israel apply to all Jews above the laws of their home nation.
They're also looking at forcibly drafting all Jews from around the world into the Israeli army.

ok schlomo, quit being so embarrassed about your goldloving hairy people.

As a 100% purebred American WASP, I feel your pain.

>but most of it's unfounded.
DIDF pls go.

there's other kinds of dwarves?

Well they keep their word and value honesty pretty highly, so I'd say not much.

>He apparently had a bit of a problem when he made "dwarvish-sounding" names like Balin and Thorin and so on, with a fairly strong norse base, but then came up with the Semitic language for the dwarves and struggled to get the two to mesh, as Semetic names are nothing like that. But being a linguist and a massive nerd, he stressed over it, then got it to work, from a linguistic point of view.

Actually, he didn't. He just came up with the idea that the Nordic sounding names were those the dwarves were using in public, while communicating with none dwarves. They also have secret, true names which are presumably Semitic sounding, but are never used among strangers.

The stereotypes changed pretty hard over time.

>They're also looking at forcibly drafting all Jews from around the world into the Israeli army.
Except themselves naturally.

Also Hassidic enclaves are creepy and cultlike, naturally without the "Recruiting" part of cult behavior because they're devoted to inbreeding instead.

Gee, I wonder who wrote this chart...

It's in german, but he's definitely a Spainaboo too.

Honestly, it seems to portray the Spanish in the best light.

Actually, the Germans get a pretty flattering description, too.

Probably Austrian - Which had, at that time, two peoples as it's ruling classes: Germans in Cisleitania and the Spanish in the iberian peninsula.

Well no shit, it's clearly BY a german.

also, just so you know, a lot of this is mis-translated

Feel free to fix it then Jerry.

As I would expect it to be. This shit is written in barely legible ancient german. Still, most of the juiciest bits look right and it's not like truth ever got in the way of a good laugh around here.

>tyrannical Over-Jew seeking the subjugation of all Jewry

Jewish Global Civil War when??

>Turk
>typical disease: Impotence

C U C K T U R K
U
C
K
T
U
R
K

Not very jewish at all.

They tend to value physical materials, like gold and gems.

But Jews want to make currency that isn't tied to gold and gems at all, and exists purely as fiat.
And to force nations to accept loans of their "made out of thin air" currency at interest
So that way they get purchasing power equivalent to ~6% of a nation's total money supply, every year, without needing any physical resources at all.

If you made a Dwarf a jew he wouldn't be mining or defending a fortress
He'd be sitting in town forcing policies that make criticising his usury illegal and """hiring""" adventurers (on his own imaginary money) to go kill off the ppl who want to take back control of their currency.

Here's a better question.
How jewish should dragons be?

there's just too much. secular law is just law, not natural science, ecclesiasitcal law isn't biblical science it's just that: law ot the catholic church, what is translated here as 'sea related' is actually the liberal arts, 'infinitely rough' should be 'infinitely jolly', it's just a mess.

>Over-Jew
my sides.

>purebreed
>American
Unless you're on the reservation or got genocided over a century ago I don't think you count as purebreed anything.

>he thinks Injuns are pure

Them's fightin' words, boy

"palestinians" aren't the ones who "stole" their land, everyone who lived there was a palestinian, christians, jews, islamists, before jews start fucking up that zone it even has a significant buddhist population. The allies fucked shit up, then the jews fuckep shit up.

source? that looks fucking gold

>natives aren't pure
>never travelled more than a few kilometers from their birthplace
>not pure
DUDE

>mutant Kamchatkans and Siberians
>pure

Get real

>europeans are neanderthal interbreed
>asians non human variants interbreed
>americas natives have also interbreed with non humans
dude, i'm not talking about this much back "pureness", if we try talking about it the only pure humans are some subsaharan tribesmen

>I read a buzzfeed "article" now I am an expert for Tolkien and literature,

Their language is based in Semitic languages but just like all the other free people they are based on the Germanic and generally northern European myths or at least Tolkien's understanding of such.
This whole dwarves=Jews thing is a fabrication from the early 2000s from some glorified blogger who wanted to gain some traction and swim the Lotr wave.
It does not hold up when you read further into the dwarven lore beyond the main 4 books.

technically, you based this on semantics, of which arbitrary redefinitions are the most well known but not the sole type of

/s you are fine man I just thought of a good semitics/semantics pun