Tundra civ thread on Veeky Forums ep. 45

As new agricultural inovations and land reforms are introduced widly we are seeing a population boom among whites. We have ample living space in the colonies and we have begun settling the southeastern continent (there's now four continents so that's how they're named). This is the smallest of the continents and is completely uninhabited, so settling will naturaly continue at a normal pace. Situated in the southern hemisphere, the climate is temperate in its northern coasts and well suited to agriculture.

>Population:26 000 000 (62% white, 4 % chink,3% kafi, 5% hibibi, 8 % pajit, 4% darkskin,13% ramki)
>Colonials: 2 200 000 West 600 000 Southwest 70 000 Southeast
>Economy:7/10
>Food stockpiles:7/10
>Food production: 8/10
>Political Stability: 7/10

>A.Exploration
>B.Food production & Population growth
>C.Improve religion/culture
>D.Settle new lands
>E.Construction
>F.Improve Military
>G.Research science
>H.Improve Navy
>I.Improve economy
>J.Regional development
>K.Diplomacy and war
>L.Government and laws

continue to industrialize our core lands.

>I.Improve economy

A note on our navy - we've restored the number of ships we had before the war

>Navy:15 ships of the line,20 frigates,10 galleas;merchantmen and flyuts,18 galleons ,good sailors, Stormborn, the Admiralty

While our ships are better than any other nation's, we haven't invested that much in them in the past decades and during the war we lost about half our fleet to the pajit.

>G.Research science
medicine or engineering would be good for colonization/industrialization

Our economy must be further improved.
Currently agriculture is a booming sector as we have access to massive amounts of land and have instituted land reforms. Large, private landowners continue to increase harvest yields every year.
The northlands and corelands have been linked by railroads, built by the National Railway Company, but its development is still fairly slow, as it is limited by the government's budget, the technology is fairly new - the government holds a monopoly on railroads at the moment.
Steamboats are still in an early stage, used in river transport and mostly owned by the government as well.
The state was heavily involved in the development of the first factories - currently Lakeside, Centerhold, Riverhold, Smallpond, Millport and Victory have some factories, mostly government owned.
The National Bank exists as the sole financial institution in our nation, providing its minting and overseeing finances as associates of the National Treasury.
Mining is well developed in the North and the steppelands have several coal and iron mines that fuel our westerlands.
Overall we are currently a system of state capitalism - private ownership exists, but is held back by heavy government involvement in the manufacturing sector.
What shall we do:
A.Lower taxes, begin privatizing manufacturing and increasing the private sector's role
B.Privatization across all sectors - including infrastructure and finances
C.Invest in more factories
D.Invest in better infrastructure
E.Invest in resources(mostly mining)
D.Improve national finances

>D.Invest in better infrastructure
muh roads

>D.Invest in better infrastructure
being able to respond to threats, communicate further and acquire resources faster should be our primary concern for now

I have to get up for maybe 20 minutes - there's still few players around so please discuss plans for economic development - whether you'd like to see a more capitalistic or state-owned system.
Our roads are great, we have concrete highways and we've expanded them through the vassal states - infrastructure development would be more and better railways and steambaots right now

D.Invest in better infrastructure

If Victoria 2 has taught me anything, it is that state capitalism is the best thing ever

i'm pretty sure we can get telegraphs right now since in reality the first telegraph networks started around 1800
i didn't really want to upgrade roads but i guess that was more of a comment about how we're an heavily economically interventionist government and that it's bringing us lots of benefits.
but yeah telegraph sounds like a good idea.

Same we need to make sure industry stays within our core lands.
we should still make sure our armies and resources can move efficiently

E.

C

railroads will solve that problem forever, it's one of the best logistic tool ever until car and bikes are around. help a whole army get from point A to point B with supplies in a few days, but we need telegraphs hard, it will greatly help us improve economy and generally everything, organization is key and getting infos faster than letters carried by horsemen is certainly helpful, means our territory's border will get to issue a draft before a war is over.
think of it like stating a 100m run 1 second earlier when racing against somebody else, sure speed is more important but that 1 second can definitely make the difference.

That isn't the reason it is good in Victoria, or in real life, in my opinion.

What it allows for is for the rich/inventive and such to create for-profit businesses or new ventures, unlike communism which is part of the reason that communism fails, and for the government to invest in them heavily if they want, while also giving us (the government) direct control over the companies to stop them doing asshole-ish shit.

People can become rich like in capitalism, industry can be reassigned easily like in communism but admittedly at the cost of things generally progressing slower.

Mind you, like communism, this is one of the best forms of government for industrialising a nation as we can focus our efforts well thanks to our control over industry and shit!

Different user here, this is very true but i would suggest we should focus more so on direct applications of our technology; more efficient steam engines, maybe light bulbs and such things.

we are indeed late in regard to electric technology but I'd advise we wait for things suck as lights, it is purely comfort and it's useless to give people more comfort when we're already the most comfortable nation in the world, also more efficient steam engine are most likely being researched on their own without us launching an expensive project on it to make the research go faster, and anyway that'd be useless without more railroads, and useless with shipyards connected to railroads to supply iron to every coastal city. so I'd advise we focus on infrastructure like we're currently doing right now.
And afterward when we settle all urgent issues we can enter such age of prosperity.

If victoria 2 has taught me anything, its that capitalists would rather bankrupt themselves trying to raise enough money for a luxury furniture factory in the pursuit of "muh profits" rather than build some shit like a steel manufactury that would give them a more reliable return as well as a lower start up cost.

The National Railroad Company is recieving large investments from the government. New, better locomotive designs have become available and our railways are expanding - from the capital's Central Station a passenger can buy a ticket to travel in all directions, from Lakeside in the north to Bridgemark in the south, from Victory in the West to Smallpond in the east. The first tracks have been laid in the steppelands as well, promising to link the vast coal reserves of the western steppes to our factories. People have gained more confidence in this method of travel and we are at last beginning to make some profit from pasengers. The world is becoming smaller in a way. Steamboats have also progressed, now becoming the prefered method of transportation along the Grand River, while the first steam ship has managed to sail from Coasttown to Volcania, proving that these heavier vessels can traverse the seas as well as rivers.
The white population continues to grow at a fast pace and is seeing its standart of living increase as well as years pass and indsutrialization continues.
>Population:27 000 000 (63% white, 4 % chink,3% kafi, 5% hibibi, 8 % pajit, 4% darkskin,12% ramki)
>Colonials: 2 400 000 West 700 000 Southwest 120 000 Southeast
>Economy:8/10
>Food stockpiles:7/10
>Food production: 8/10
>Political Stability: 7/10

>A.Exploration
>B.Food production & Population growth
>C.Improve religion/culture
>D.Settle new lands
>E.Construction
>F.Improve Military
>G.Research science
>H.Improve Navy
>I.Improve economy
>J.Regional development
>K.Diplomacy and war
>L.Government and laws

I must disagree with you sir, on the point of electric lighting. You unwisely state that "...it is purely comfort and it's useless..." ignoring that electric lights will lower crime by allowing us to efficiently light our streets, will lower fire risk by making oil lamps and candles outdated methods of lighting.

On to your next point that "...more efficient steam engine......being researched on their own..." this is to some degree inaccurate. I would point out that although guns should naturally advance (considering we have a somewhat free market), unless we put a turn in they seemingly receive no progress!

Lastly you say "...that'd be useless without more rail-roads..." ignoring the fact that making steam engines more efficient would make rail-roads more profitable, making them quicker to expand.

Now as to your last sentence, you say "...when we settle all urgent issues..." i would like to point out that will logically never happen as our GM/CM will constantly create new obstacles to make the game fun. As of this moment in time, we have no threats, no impeding disasters and no reason not to advance like this.

I would hope that i have made good arguments and convinced you of the in-correctness of your statements.

>E.Construction
national telegraph network,NTN for short

>I.Improve economy

+1

We don't know of the communicative applications of electricity or really have any research in that area. To even consider the creation of such a thing we would need to research it.

Did we ever make laws that limit the number of children people such as the Kafi can have? If not then I choose that.

We have laws in place to limit the growth of non-white populations and to help whites out. I.e whites are given preferential selection for higher education and other shit.

Developing a system of keeping time by dividing the known world into time zones would be a great way to ensure that our mass transit can be put to a regular schedule as well as make a way for workers to be worked in regular shifts so that we can create jobs and increase productivity due to more workers being in the factory throughout the day.

All we need to do is make sure what we have explored so far IS all there is to the world.

Lets get to circumnavigating the globe so we can make our trains run on time as well as make jobs shall we?

>A.

N

We circumnavigated the world quite awhile back, like 3-4 threads.

>ignoring that electric lights will lower crime
railroad and telegraph will surely impact our economy to such a degree that crime would reduce by the same extent as it would with lights.
Also you forget that we need telegraph to have people with such ideas.
>Edison became a telegraph operator after he saved three-year-old Jimmie MacKenzie from being struck by a runaway train. Jimmie's father, station agent J.U. MacKenzie of Mount Clemens, Michigan, was so grateful that he trained Edison as a telegraph operator.
>In 1881, Tesla moved to Budapest to work under Ferenc Puskás at a telegraph company, the Budapest Telephone Exchange. Upon arrival, Tesla realized that the company, then under construction, was not functional, so he worked as a draftsman in the Central Telegraph Office instead. Within a few months, the Budapest Telephone Exchange became functional and Tesla was allocated the chief electrician position
literally every genius who worked for electric invention worked as telegrapher before, we need the simpler version of invention first to allow people to study these field by giving them a job after they studied,if doctor wasn't a job that paid enough to live then no one would study medicine.
>ignoring the fact that making steam engines more efficient would make rail-roads more profitable, making them quicker to expand.
since railroads are mostly nationalized we don't need it to be profitable to actually invest in it since our investment will return in other forms (eg:taxes)
>I would point out that although guns should naturally advance (considering we have a somewhat free market), unless we put a turn in they seemingly receive no progress!
to allow the gun industry to develop new guns we must create a need for them, the only need for guns now are war and occasional hunting (which doesn't require better guns) so it's logical that only us would invest in firearms.Trains aren't the same and even the QM stated it after we research it two times in a row.

H

In that case I choose F. The last war with Pajit proved that we should improve our military.

well shit man, wasn't there for that.

Also would developing timezones be an I.(Improve economy) thing or a G.(Research science) thing?

research

>H

Rolled 2, 91 = 93 (2d100)

Scientific advancement can be encouraged by the government, but it is the great thinkers and creators who produce results.
two rolls shall determine what discoveries will be made
0-20 Chemistry
21-40 Military
41-60 Mechanisation
61-80 Power
81-100 Metallurgy

I can't argue that the telegraph will effect our economy but I feel that you overstate it's effect somewhat in this area.

Then there is your statement that "literally every genius who worked for electric invention worked as telegrapher".

I would point out that one of the only jobs involving electricity for some time would have been telegraph since that was one of the first applications. Meaning that since most potential discoveries really only required some skill with electrical equipment and that telegraphers were quite numerous, as they were one of the only methods for fast communication across long distances, would logically create most inventions.

On your second point that "since railroads are mostly nationalized we don't need it to be profitable" we may not need them to be profitable but we want them to be, seeing as it makes them less of a hole in our budget or even a boon on our government.

As to your last point that "...to develop new guns we must create a need for them..." our armed forces are constantly attempting to remain ahead of other nations, so there is always a push for a more accurate gun or a faster loading gun.

Not to mention that hunters will buy the best gun at the best price, maybe market forces won't make guns advance fast but they should still create a, as you put it, "want".

Also what are you referring to with this bit here "Trains aren't the same and even the QM stated ...". I remember him making no such statement and I have yet to miss a thread since we were fighting against the feens so i must ask for directions to this statement, please.

Light weight bullet proof armor here we come.

Shit messed up, first bit is meant to say "that the telegraph will not effect our economy".

Also "Then there is your statement that" should not have that "then" at the front

>post of thread 38 number 46527221
>We've improved the steam engine design even further through new innovations. All-round our scientists are working in all fields to give us a decisive edge over any potential enemies to our nation - however, this is a process which takes time. The government has dedicated more funds and resources towards R&D, but inventions take time.

Translation:Nigga you can dump money on him all you want but NotEnstien ain't gonna have his brainchild any faster!

That in no way reinforces the claims he has made, CM/QM would you weigh in on this please?

He is arguing that steam engines will be made more efficient, in a reasonable time scale, without us dedicating a turn to it. While i am arguing that such a thing does not occur, ignoring time skips, international development and you choosing to give us a free improvement.

Cleaner coal and cheaper iron are available as newer technologies greatly increase the yields of our mines - this has spurred rich capitalists and landowners to invest in the discovery of new mines, particulary for coal and iron - the demands for raw resources are increasing as our factories hunger for more and more of Terra's dark riches.
Advancements in chemistry have led to the development of artificial fertilizers, which in some experiments have also been used to create powerful explosives! The field of electrochemistry has recieved increased interest as scientists search for ways to harvest the power of lightning to man's use - the laws of physics are being redefined, but it will take time for more practical uses of this great elemental force.
An interesting combination of the two areas that have seen development is the firedamp - a lamp made for the coal mines, safer than the old ones.
Tensions have arisen in the Northwestern continent(we should think of new names for them) as the Pacharnati Empire seems to have set its sights on the New Pajit Union - without the backing of their homelands' military, these colonials would have a hard time resisting the power of the native empire.
>Population:28 000 000 (63% white, 4 % chink,3% kafi, 5% hibibi, 8 % pajit, 4% darkskin,12% ramki)
>Colonials: 2 600 000 West 800 000 Southwest 150 000 Southeast
>Economy:8/10
>Food stockpiles:7/10
>Food production: 8/10
>Political Stability: 7/10

>A.Exploration
>B.Food production & Population growth
>C.Improve religion/culture
>D.Settle new lands
>E.Construction
>F.Improve Military
>G.Research science
>H.Improve Navy
>I.Improve economy
>J.Regional development
>K.Diplomacy and war
>L.Government and laws

>G.Research science - telegraph

I am this user but i am willing to admit that the telegraph is useful enough to warrant research.

>K.Diplomacy and war
go to war with pacharnati, they had it coming anyway, we can't let tribal people get the pajeets technology, and if we can get support from the pajeets's vassal and pacify the pajeet colonies then it's even better for us.

H

G

>H

F. We need a strong military since there's always another war on the horizon and our republic is full of subjects who would probably rebel and side with the enemy.

F

changing to since nobody seem to want to take the opportunity to gain complete supremacy over the western continent.

F

once we get our industry to high enough levels maybe we should move more troops and weapons onto the western continient

1 QM 8 votes 9 IPs
seems like a tie in between F and G

so did you drop your trip centurion did somebody samefag?
something is fishy here...

I'm going with F

Takes longer to reverse engineer things than you think. And that's assuming the unga bunga's don't just worship the things they take or use them for ornamental pomp. Plus nobody's really wanting to give a damn since it's
1)Pajit and fuck them douches
2)Continent away and we got plenty of other issues to deal with.

K.

Supply the New Pajit Union with arms and minor training so that they have a better chance of taking down a large portion of the pacharnati before they are inevitably crushed.

After they are both exhaused and weak from their war, we invade the pajit colonies and push north in pacharnati lands,taking everything that isn't nailed down and cripple if not destroy 2 of our greatest potential threats in a swift coup-de-grace.

I'm in a another thread so I might forget to put it back in from time to time

well if you didn't vote already it means samefaggotry is at work here.
9 votes 9 Ips and 1 GM doesn't add up centurion.

F
We may need to do some upgrades while we can.

well if F wins i hope we research rifling so that finally can use bullets instead of musket balls and get those colt SAA and other cool guns.

As our economic situation has improved we are able to fund an increase in our stranding army's size. Certain improvements in military design have been made naturally over time - better cannons, flintlocks, pistols - there have even been new experimental designs for a firearm called "rifle" which have proven it to have better accuracy than our old muskets, making it suitable to skirmishers. what TWO things should we focus on in particular though?
A.The militia(phase out pikemen completely and improve training and equipment)
B.Our infantry(expand its numbers, equipment and regimentation)
C.Our officers, strategy and tactics
D.Our cavalry - numbers, equipment, regiments
E.Artillery and heavy armament
F.Modernise our elite corps(rangers, elemental orders)

We could offer the pacharnati assistance in the war for land and shit

OR

We could vassalise/pre-emptively invade the pajit colonial union.

Maybe just give either of them some guns and "retired" generals/troops

F and D

F.Modernise our elite corps(rangers, elemental orders)
A.The militia(phase out pikemen completely and improve training and equipment)

Make the bread and butter along with the elites better

A and f

A and F

>B.Our infantry(expand its numbers, equipment and regimentation)
We have a lot of ground to cover with our vassals and colonial possession we need more troops to cover all this ground and maintain order

>A.The militia(phase out pikemen completely and improve training and equipment)
>B.Our infantry(expand its numbers, equipment and regimentation)
better get on researching better guns with bayonet,it will surely prove useful.
F seems tempting but without good steamboats, planes, tanks or heavy firearms, our corps lack their main element-like weapons.

>A.
We still have pikemen? shamefurr dispray.

>B. My land invasion could use troops to occupy our conquered lands.

E and F, we should have tanks prototyped by now.

A and E.

From current events we might eventually have to deal with actual naval combat since we seem to ignoring the colony issue. Probably better to develop a good basis for cannonry.

A and F

A.
B.

>we should have tanks prototyped by now.
>only steam engine
>doesn't even have prototyped modern artillery yet
>not even fully industrialized
Yeah nah tanks prototype status are wooden bawkses with wheels and holes for your feets to push it.

come on man, live a little.

I'd like to see you say that to the brave pilot's wife who died in a fire due to a steam engine malfunction during battle.
Steam tanks may seem awesome in theory but messy in practice.

To be fair to him, we could create some concepts of such a thing, problem is that we would need some one to have knowledge of the following; Mechanical engineering, steam engines (preferably having worked on them as a engineer), artillery and cavalry experience. Maybe even some maarguard experience.

Potentially if we had science fiction writers/futurist, then they would create the concept.

LOL, we are far from it. I wouldnt mind throwing in another upgrade into military soon though. E. Should be developed as it will be a main supporter in any modern battle. Creating mass loses.

To be fair, every other super-nation around us still has pikemen and swords as a thing in their proper armies.

E will be worth it once we get rifling since we'll be able to make projectiles spin, thus making them increase greatly their range and accuracy, meaning artillery will become very deadly stuff, then we'll develop it.

Not to mention that since we are, somewhat, industrialised we can create shells and artillery pieces fairly cheaply.

One thing we will want to invent will be chlorine gas shells and such.

As new times demand new weapons, our elemental orders have been improved. Maargard still wear their traditional sets of plate armor for ceremonies, but in combat they now act as a new heavy infantry - strong, imposing men with powerful guns and the best close combat skills, they still fulfil their roles as elite guards to our commanders, leaders and strategic locations.
The Stormborn continue to work with the navy and fullfil the role of elite Marines - capable of fighting in ship-to-ship and land combat, they are the troops that are first to be deployed in distant battlefields.
Blitzkriegers continue to keep up with our most cutting-edge military technology and have adopted our first standart issue muzzle-loading rifles. They are our best shots and act as elite sharpshooters in battle.
Rangers have largely adopted carbines as lighter firearms - they continue to fullfil an important role as scouts and patrolmen, without whom our armies would be both blind and deaf.
The militia has abandoned its pikemen completely as all men now train with our best muskets and are capable of fighting with bayonets.
The latest word is that the pacharnati demanded tribute and submition from the pajit colonials, who refused, hell-bent on preserving their freedom. Things are most likely bound to get rougher in the Northwestern continent.
>Population:28 500 000 (63% white, 4 % chink,3% kafi, 5% hibibi, 8 % pajit, 4% darkskin,12% ramki)
>Colonials: 2 700 000 West 850 000 Southwest 200 000 Southeast
>Economy:8/10
>Food stockpiles:7/10
>Food production: 8/10
>Political Stability: 7/10

>A.Exploration
>B.Food production & Population growth
>C.Improve religion/culture
>D.Settle new lands
>E.Construction
>F.Improve Military
>G.Research science
>H.Improve Navy
>I.Improve economy
>J.Regional development
>K.Diplomacy and war
>L.Government and laws

At this stage in time you'd just have to setup the creation of a gatling cannon or repeater rifle. Anything to improve rate of fire would be good. It's not about the size of the bullet it's about volume of fire.

Not that a good artillery piece is bad to have or anything but the first one to the semi automatic rifle with an actual magazine is gonna be brutal in warfare. Even more so the first heavy machinegun. Those things changed the face of war itself.

K
help the pacharati

>F.Improve Military

We must be ready to completely destroy the pacharnati when they attack the pajit union

>K.Diplomacy and war
Alright we just packed our military's stuff now time to test out our new rifles.
time to assert world dominance, and it's also a good excuse to investigate the eye of sand

you wot m8y?

we leave them alone, they can fight their own battle, just give them a some old weapons and a little training, then sweep in and destroy the pachanarti when they destroy the pajit colonists.

>there have even been new experimental designs for a firearm called "rifle" which have proven
funny you brought that up. since we just finished "developing" it if only at the experimental stage.
I get it. SO I am all for getting to that now, and increasing our standing army and artillery.
>F.Improve Military
Leaving us ahead of other nations and settling any fires that may arise.