Thoughts on this?

>genuine old citadel miniatures are hard to come by in quantity

This is largely false. From old staff members collecting when they could buy weight to hoarders, there's a fuckton of old models out there. It's pretty easy to put together an army of Rogue Trader era stuff if you're willing to pay the cost, because a lot of the models were still buy-able for years after they stopped being produced for sale in stores and only through mail order.

Also we've seen so many good recasts, hell a lot of them have better quality control than GW/Forgeworld, that low quality is in no way a reliable guarantee of being genuine.
With older metal models there's literally no good way to tell if the recast is well made, because all the supposed tells of discolouration, pitting, double-mould lines, excessive flash, they're all present on the genuine articles.

>Unused really pretty Brettonian Plastics

C'mon, GW, you can figure out a way to use them.

It's was already revealed by Adam Troke at the last LotR/Hobbit Throne of Skulls event that FW is going to be doing a lot of stuff with both. I don't recall there ever being a mention of War of the Wing though and I can't see why they would go back to it after the Hobbit was nothing like it.

Honestly most of it just sounds like plausible things that anyone could guess mixed with pandering bullshit to make grognards want to desperately believe its true.

LotR was apparently pretty popular and a well received system. I could imagine it's possibly part of the strategy to see how well diversifying works.

>Believing shit like this

>AoS comes out
>shit's legit
>thank god FLGS oldfags prefer old WHFB editions anyway
>always wanted to do some Chaos mortals, but was waiting for a new edition because 8th wasn't fun
>it's now or never
>so far bought WoC battalion box, knight box and some warrior boxes

The sad part is that all this will be listed as AoS purchases and will go towards convincing GW that AoS is worth it. But I don't care. Voting with my wallet didn't work, so lets see how throwing money at them will. Either way someone's gonna shout at me for doing it wrong.

Eh, it's not really all that unbelievable. GW has apparently made prototypes and such for things they never did anything with before.

They did make a huge profit out of it when the movies were released but then sales dropped to rock bottom after the hype was over and they never really got over that blow.

Didn't play LOTR, missed it by a couple of years. Where LoTR seemed to focus on large army or contingents, did the Hobbit focus on more skirmish sized encounters?

I lie the direction GW appears to be heading. I'd like to see wider support for competitive players and rules that are maintained instead of this fire and forget shit that has seemed to be envogue for the last few years.

>GW are married to formations now, and will give the studio a brief of
things like do some formations for an army and how much the formation
should cost to buy the models for, ie a £200 formation.

this kills the game

>tfw 40k starts to tank
>GW Panics as their golden cow lays forth a death bellow

Post yfw 50k Emporer Strikes Back

From what I understand, LotR was similar to the Hobbit in that both were skirmish sized. It was only after LotR originally came out that GW tried to see if people were interested in playing big massive games with the War of the Ring ruleset.

>>GW are married to formations now, and will give the studio a brief of things like do some formations for an army and how much the formation should cost to buy the models for, ie a £200 formation.

If true, this is going to make the recasters serious fucking bank. Soon as a they come out and get played, players will be talking about what works and how overpriced it is; and they'll be able to undercut and sell a large quantity in one transaction that will be in high demand if they get their quality control right.

Shall we go as far as to think on the brightside and hope the new kid on yh4 block lowers prices?

Did I read the last paragraph of that article right?

>Buy expensive GW recast for cheap from counterfeiter
>Record all essential info on counterfeiter and transaction
>Recieve recast product
>Send model with expense report and info to GW
>Get reimbursed for postage
>Get free official replacement from GW
>???
>Profit?

Not that I'd do it but dayum I mean to those who buy yoyhammer because it's cheaper, that doesn't sound too shabby

well on the other hand I guess you're just paying for the GW product at yoyhammer price. Nvm I guess I did read it wrong

LotR caused them a lot of problems because they made so much money on it during the films they overdevelopped their infrastructure.

When demand dropped costs didn't.

It's the most popular line they ever created. Put 40k to shame.

And there will never be Silmarillion movies. The rights are held by different people from the Lotr & Hobbit (the Tolkien Estate not Hollywood Jews).

LotR was skirmish until Return of the king came out iirc. Helm's Deep scenarios were all skirmish based back in the day.

That actually sounds kind of interesting... except the emperor should be evil just so we don't get confused between AOS and 40k

I was gonna do an Empire army and was waiting for the 8'th edition to go away before investing in units. I have the hunch that a lot of people had that train of thought. On the flipside it has given me time to pick up old minis on eBay and check out historical ranges.

I figure I would have fun kitbashing Frostgrave minis with historical kits for Millitia and Flagellants. I'm also still waiting for Warlord Games to produce those Landsknechts.

Thank God that 30k doesn't use formations.

As a concept I don't think there is anything wrong with formations and in fact they could/do lend themselves to some cool stuff.

Practice is seemingly an entirely different story.

The horde rules in WHFB 8'th edition is one of the main reasons I hated the edition. It was basically a pay to win rule that basically meant that you had to buy more specific minis to compete against other players in the meta.

To me it made army building more rigid and boring.

>Bretonnians were going to be in the next WFB starter before it was scrapped
in favour of AoS, meaning there are some lovely plastics that made it to
prototyping that will likely never be seen now, including a hero on
hippogriff better than the Elf Prince from Island of Blood.

I didnt need those tears anyway.

Nothing GW does really matters, until they get their prices under control and write proper rules they will keep stagnating.

The Betrayal at Calth price is agreeable.

Specific deals for a single faction or two is not going to help matters.

You can almost buy entire starter sets or forces for other wargames for the price of a 28mm space marine captain, that is insane.

Down here in NZ it outsold Fantasy and 40k handily for quite a while. Mainly because the models were cheaper, but more then that so many people who worked on the films wanted to collect armies based on who they had acted as/designed and built for/animated/etc. I knew a guy who was an Uruk Hai at Helms Deep, and no prizes for guessing what army he invested nearly a thousand dollars into.

Yeah, I know. GW characters are so expensive that I always feel it's a waste of money to buy one instead of a unit box. GW's pricing model has really driven me into checking out other manufacturers just because I find their prices less insane. If I buy a GW character mini I just feel like I'm getting suckered.

That's probably because the Captain's sales are low due to only really needing one and usually coming with an unattractive preset armament.

The only generic Captain now available has what looks to me to be a pretty piss poor set of wargear that looks to be a pain to convert.

At this point you really are better off just buying a Sternguard, Vanguard, or Terminator kit and trying to kitbash a Captain or Chapter Master out of that.

I feel like I'm in this scene from Falling Down whenever I check out the prices of GW's new products.

>youtube.com/watch?v=a2YRMixW9u8

>until they get their prices under control

Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW so it's not like there's any cheaper alternatives that aren't shitty historicals or Mantic.

You can get better rules and better games but the companies will still assfuck you on prices.

To be fair the end times weren't bad, it was just them wiping out entire factions and destroying the whole universe that was shit. Opening up a third setting akin to the Horus Heresy could be neat.
>Warhammer 41k
>Abaddon captured Cadia, Creed managed to bloody them enough to allow the Imperium to regroup in the surrounding systems and halt any further Chaos advanced
>Cadian regiments are now homeless, fighting for the hope of reclaiming their homeworld or conquering a new world to settle
>Creed leads a handful of surviving forces on Cadia in guerrilla actions against Chaos
>The main Tyranid fleets have begun to arrive, Ghazkull has gathered tens or hundreds of billions of Orks and has begun waging a war on all fronts against everyone, Terra is threatened, Armageddon is in perpetual war, and the Tyranids are being held in a bloody war against the Orks
>The Necrons almost entirely wake up, the Silent King leads a massive Necron army to the edge of the galaxy to destroy the Tyranids
>The Tau are nearly wiped out by the galaxy scale Waagh and the Tyranid main fleet, Farsight makes an uneasy alliance with the Tau Empire to try and ensure their survival as a species
>The Eldar are waging wars on all fronts to stop Chaos, the Tyranids, and the Orks, entire craftworlds are being lost in the massive scale conflicts
>A hole in Commorragh opens to the warp, daemons flood in and massive parts of the city are lost to the flood of daemons, some Dark Eldar flee the webway permanently, Vect gathers whoever he can in trying to drive back the daemons and close the hole
>The gains of Chaos piques the interest of the daemon primarchs, Lorgar leaves his world to lead his legion alongside Abbadon against the Imperium, Fulgrim, Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and Mortarion leave the Eye of Terror, each leading massive armies of daemons and chaos space marines
>The loyalist primarchs begin to return, Lion awakens and leads all of the Unforgiven in a massive war against Chaos

Yeah.

And since the emporer is evil, so is the Imperium. We need some good guys then. What about a rebellion of some description? They'd be trying to stop the Inperium from, uh, building a big death weapon, something so big it would be mistaken as a star if seen in the night sky. A Demise Sun, as it were.

Chaos and Space Marines don't fit the aesthetic anymore. Will be squatted.

>implying that the Perry brothers historical plastic kits isn't of higher standards than most of GW's latest fantasy kits
>implying that most of GW's fantasy minis in the last few years hasn't been visual design disasters

Chaos is the rebellion that has been going on since 30k.

>Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW

I don't know why people automatically assume this is the case and that it just simply isn't the result of running a business of a certain size.

It would behoove GW's competition to be less expensive than them, not match them.

Sounds pretty shit desu.

I have 4 playable Infinity armies that cost substantially less than any one of my 40k armies.

>hurrdurr price per model

The entire post was saying historicals aren't comparable to GW shit otherwise we'd all be playing historicals you moron. Perry Brothers are historicals, and are overhyped as fuck. Their details are nothing special because they're being sculpted by a right-handed amputees left hand.

You mean the fantasy range that's sorely outdated and sold so poorly it got turned into CAD-laden AoS trash?

You better believe 30k is going to get cheesed hard. It's coming.

But its still crazy, those captains should be £5 each not £18. Its not our fault GW is so stupid they want to run out plastic moulds for character models instead of sticking with metal.

And elite infantry should cost exactly the same per model as troops unless they are bigger or come with tons of bits.

>shitty historicals

Perry kits are both better and cheaper than equivalent GW kits.

Yes, but the aesthetic demands we no longer use them. How about we replace chaos with a plucky group of smugglers and psykers?

Actually, on second thought, we shouldn't call it "psychic" powers anymore. Too easy to steal. How about "The Power"? And psychers care called Jodi now because copyright. Also they have swords made of darkness.

>complains about GW prices
>pays $10 per model for metal monopose

1. A Kill Team army for GW would have cost you far less.
2. "But nobody plays KT" isn't an argument because nobody plays Infinity, compared to people who play X-Wing/Warma/GW
3. You need shit tons of terrain for Infinity so that's even more time/money wasted.
4. Enjoy Fire Team: the Game.

>the only other GW historicals are stupid historicals
>PERRY BROTHERS ARE CHEAPER AND BETTER

They're also historicals you no-reading-comprehension-having dipshit. You can't use Perry Bros shit to play 40k. Even if you tried to do IG. They're cheaper because the market won't bear a higher price because the demand for historicals is so low.

>companies actively shitting on customers of a product lowers sales of a product

What a shock.

And no, he has more sculpting skill in his claw hand than everyone at GW put together.

>GW is so stupid they want to run out plastic moulds for character models instead of sticking with metal.

Plastic is easier to work with and I imagine switching over to it solely makes things run smoother.

>And elite infantry should cost exactly the same per model as troops unless they are bigger or come with tons of bits.

In addition to how they sell, the elite models are usually just like this or can make two different units.

THere already is plenty of cheese in 30k, its just the kind that almost every army has access to so its not really a problem.

Besides Rites of War are already better than formations.

The demand for Historicals is actually higher than Sci-Fi or Fantasy miniatures, hence the large number of manufacturers and the lower price point

The Perry Brothers has done some of the finest sculpts that GW has ever produced, you philistine.

>Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW so it's not like there's any cheaper alternatives that aren't shitty historicals or Mantic.

This implies you think historicals are shit in quality, it does not imply what you are rambling on about in that post.

Also, the death of WHFB and their new fantasy meme game has driven people to check out the alternatives.

>GW releases ASoIaF books for the LotR system.
Yea or Nay?

Well, it would let GW pull a GRRM and kill off the game in a couple of years without warning.

I think ASoIaF already has a miniatures system.

I'd be interested in such a game though.

I think just using the LOTR rule system with some houseruled army lists would work just as good. People have done some cool units for the setting with historical minis.

The idea that more people would buy GW than historical miniatures is a myth.

Eh, I would rather just have all the factions die and then 100,000,000 years later civilisation in space starts over.

Chaos could be the shady side of the power to act as a counter to the bright side.

You do realise they're going to be supporting LOTR and Hobbit, right?

They set up a new design studio to do this and specialist games.

I don't think LotR would lend itself to ASoIaF. The system very much emulates being a hero and favored by fate, where one man can pull it off against all odds and survive incredible injuries. ASoIaF doesn't seem to be that way exactly.

>every single hobbyist around the world is jumping up and down with excitement and you should be too

I'm not jumping up and down.

>kill team is a really poor game and no it wouldn't because you have to buy boxes of 10 guys at a time
>factually wrong
>literally free if you aren't retarded
>It an objectivley better game than anything gw has ever made (along with most non gw games)
You seem triggered

One of the easy go to attacks on GW is the fact they ended the specialist games line. Now they're bringing them back... that's bad?

Exactly what can they do? Tactical Marines in 2000 cost £15. In today's money, that's £22.50. So £25 for Tactical Marines, which have more options and weapons and heads and shit, isn't that bad.

So GW can do no right? Even if their models were free it'd be somehow bad. Oh well.

>gw can do no right
Did you know Veeky Forums is more than one person

Also tactical marines are a box the deliberately keep reasonably priced. Take ANYTHING ELSE such as 40 dollar single model clampacks for example.

Also tacs wew 22.50 after inflation for 30 in 1990

>being excited to see old games get dreadfleeted
why

Me either.

>Now they're bringing them back... that's bad?
It's not necessarily good though. This isn't the GW design team who made those classic games, this is the era of the chumps who made AoS and Dreadfleet.

There's also the chance that things might just be a limited release boxed set rather than a fully supported game, which would be terrible for all those old games, who still retain an audience amongst a host of good competitors because of the sheer amount of stuff that can be done with them in terms of teams/armies/fleets.

Maybe they will do it right, but there's also a non-negligible chance that everything will get royally fucked up. Getting hyped is fucking stupid and shows far too much faith in a company that has deserved none in many, many years.

8th Edition had some good ideas, but god it could be a mess.

It felt like nobody designing parts of that book were talking to each other at times. Hordes for instance: Okay, you have a massive regiment with a higher rank bonus than your opponent. So this means even if you lose the combat you roll against your Base LD, not by how much you lose the combat.
Good in theory, means that Goblin Horde wont insta-break when charged by 5 Elves with Sideburns, but what they should have made it was that losing that rank bonus means you lose the horde bonus.
Catch that horde in the rear or sides and it's fucked.

Matt Ward never should have been allowed to write the Magic Lores, that goes without saying. Cavalry should have got it's own special wrinkle, just like Infantry, Monsters, Monstrous troops and beasts all got.
Shields should also not work from the rear or sides, again flank charges should be important.

I dunno, the whole thing felt like it was one edition away from actually being a good game.

>Also tactical marines are a box the deliberately keep reasonably priced.

Along with almost all the other Troops choices.

>This isn't the GW design team who made those classic games, this is the era of the chumps who made AoS and Dreadfleet.

FW is working on the games, not the GW Design Studio.

>There's also the chance that things might just be a limited release boxed set rather than a fully supported game

They'll be fully supported if people buy enough and show interest.

>the demand for historicals is so low

You know upwards of 60% of wargames players are 40 year old dudes who play historicals right

You know supply also factors into economics right.

>along with all the other Troop Choices
>Deathwing is $60

I think the main worry people has is the fear that Specialist Games coming back is going to be the second finger on the Monkeys Paw.

What GW are proposing for the new Blood Bowl tournement in Notts for example isn't a good start.
Scheduling it so it deliberately conflicts with the NAF tournement isn't good either.

I said almost all

The fact that such alternative Troop choices cost so much is likely evidence that not enough people have an interest in making a Deathwing army.

>It's pretty easy to put together an army of Rogue Trader era stuff if you're willing to pay the cost
True. That's how I got my beakie army. Marines are easiest to do this with by far. The only marginally difficult models to get hold of are land speeders, bikes (including jetbikes), and assault marines. But terminators, basic marines, heavy/special weapons, and characters aren't hard to get at all. Hell, I've got so many chaplains I could start a new religion.

>They'll be fully supported if people buy enough and show interest.

Doubt.jpg

GW doesn't work on these kinds of games like they're some small studio that needs the funds of the current project to do the next. If it's going to be a full game, it'll be built as that from the start, not if people buy lots of whatever they put out.

People should be worried about that. There is zero guarantee of quality of anything. And there's so many small ways that the games could be messed with. Epic for instance could be a new boxed set, maybe something nice like taking the existing living rulebook thing, giving it a revision to trim out rules for whatever isn't in the boxed set and then bam, 10mm miniatures instead of 6mm.

>No Mordheim

They can go and die in a fire.

>Doubt.jpg

That is what FW said during their last event. They're going to put out the new Bloodbowl box and if it does well they'll look into doing other teams.

The FW Studio doesn't work under the same timeframe as the GW Studio.

>10mm miniatures instead of 6mm.

FW already said they're not reviving Epic and are instead doing it at a new scale.

>50% of staff not passing 3 month probation and
25% of staff left not finishing the year, which is an eye watering turnover
even for retail.
what does that mean? they dont sell enough shit or theyre autists?

6'th and 7'th edition had tight rules. 8'th edition just seemed like an experiment.

History also has better fluff than 40k and AoS.

WHFB kinda flirted with history, though, and I recall hearing that historical gamers liked the previous plastic Empire state troops. It's a shame that most of the new models they did halfway through the 7'th editon was just ugly and depressing to look at.

>I recall hearing that historical gamers liked the previous plastic Empire state troops

What alternate universe were you in?

GW are moving more and more of their stores to 1 Man stores, where there's only even 1 staff member present.

That's a very stressful role.

On top of that GW requires their staff to tow the corporate line to an almost Stalinist degree.

And then you have the actual job itself. Retail does have a high turnover rate normally since it's a largely thankless, difficult, low paid job. Add in that you're a games store and your average customers are a) Children b) Teenages c) Autists d) Gamers who hate your company and want to tell you why for 3 hours and you'll see why they don't last long.

Deathwing Terminators aren't Troops, and though they once were, it's always taken a pretty big masochistic streak to run all-Deathwing anyway. The extra $10 for a bunch of one-per-army bitz just makes it hurt that much better.

t. Deathwing player

It means nobody wants to work for them. And why would they? "One man stores" are a horrible idea. You're going to leave the entire storefront - with racks and racks of high-ticket, easily-pocketable merchandise and tables covered in expensive, delicate objects - in the hands of one poor bastard? Even the damn phone-case kiosk at the mall has two people running it.

See

It means they're pruning out a lot of people early, and those that pass are not sticking around.

And it's likely due to shit pay, shit working hours with many shitty demands from above. Even more than you'd normally see in retail. A lot of the staff are unsuitable due to lack of familiarity with what the company sells (which is terrible in such a niche business area), and have no-where near the required amount of skill and experience to run a single-person store, let alone with all the crap coming from above that stops good people doing their job properly. Replacements have to be found quickly or the single-person stores don't operate, and that doesn't help in the slightest.

The corporate culture was saturated with Kirby's cult-like indoctrination bullshit where people who were good at their job but not completely walking in-step with the party doctrine were immediately gotten rid of. The management is stuffed full of those that are not good at their job but good at sticking to Kirby's requirements.

>FW already said they're not reviving Epic and are instead doing it at a new scale.
Image related.

Shitty job + shitty pay = little reason to not jump ship when a better job opening presents itself.

Not him but they did.

< Landsknect Tercio with mixed Warhammer Empire and Foundry Landsknects here for example.

>On top of that GW requires their staff to tow the corporate line to an almost Stalinist degree.

My local GW manager seems to have quite a bit of autonomy. She had no qualms with a person trying to set up a Mordheim league.

I've said it before, but I think a lot of the GW horror stories probably come from the UK.

Considering that Dark Sword holds rights to Song of Ice and Fire, and has Tom Meier as the main sculptor, good fucking luck.

I dunno, user. The scale and proportions on these are pretty reasonable.