Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

hence the question
>how would you go about it.

>We dindu nuffin

The stuff they explain in the book really tries to turn everything that happened in TBC on its head. Not only was Illidan making serious inroads against the Burning Legion (blowing up the Nathrezim planet, for example), but he even personally protected the Alliance and Horde at the foot of the Dark Portal from a Burning Legion flank, and to this day, they still don't know he did it. That's how you turn a conceived-to-be-evil character into a dindu: by inventing new acts that validate them.

man, king really let himself go huh?

I wouldn't, and I don't think it'd be possible without all of the fan base collectively losing their shit. I don't even think blizzard would take such a risk.

they seem to do so for illidan, and it was far more believable than
>arthas was the lich king all along

Does anyone have the metzen pasta as to why people will buy legion instead of FF14?

are there any of those pages for high and/or blood elves?

Someone just made that last thread, so I doubt it.

because most people aren't weebshitters

Have his soul be tortured over what he did. Have him spend what feels like eternity replaying the same scenarios over and over again, with all the evil ramifications spelled out for him. A little personal hell.

An when he's at a point where he's contemplating ways to snuff out his own spirit, have a Naaru come along. Have it explain, in great detail, how he went wrong and why the world being the way it is is actually his fault.

And then have it tell him he has a chance to right it.

Arthas chose his evils because he thought he was doing good. He was faced with scenarios that had no good answers. Knowing the evil he did, I don't think it would be a stretch to see him want to fix it, especially once he's free of Frostmourne. Or at least try to fix things.

I just did the troll one last thread. I could do more, but for HE/BE, I'm not really sure how I would make them stand out from the existing High Elf subrace in the PHB, which already has most of the stuff you'd expect from Warcraft High Elves as well (bonuses to Dex and Int, always knows one wizard cantrip to represent affinity with magic, automatic proficiency with bows and swords). About the only big thing missing is the BE racial mana-tap ability, but that's be very hard to convert to DnD and would probably end up being way too powerful as a racial bonus.

I was thinking of doing a little "splatbook" of sorts, themed around the Burning Legion (what's with the next expansion being all about them, and their nature means you could theoretically have them show up in a non-Azeroth setting as well), with rules for playable Draenei and demonhunters, and statblocks for various demons (like doomguards, felhounds, infernals, voidwalkers and the Eredar Lords of the Burning legion).

>MAGA

Hey, working on a Beyond the Wall Hack for Warcraft. Doing a Horde thing right now, was wondering if you guys had any good idea for hard rules when it comes to Kalimdor as a setting?

Mine so far:
1. Kalimdor is large and mysterious, the barrens are nearly endless, the forests can swallow up civilization, and the mountains reach the heavens. No one map of Kalimdor captures the truth of its scope.
2. Despite the length of time spent settling Kalimdor, the Orcs hold little more than Durotar, and the Tauren hold Thunder Bluff; any settlements beyond these areas are nomadic, temporary, or small oasis of civilization in the great frontier wilds.
3. Kalimdor is spiritual, its woods are haunted, its plains carry the souls of ancestral beasts on the wind, and one cannot always be sure what is the truth of a creature.
4. The Kaldorei are mysterious and violent, they want little to do with the colonist efforts and actively attack them with guerrila warfare. They have a loose alliance with the Lordaeron refugees of Theramore.
5. Life is harsh, but it is better than anywhere else for the Horde.

Trying to keep it timeline vague, but with some additions from WotLK/Cata/MoP. Horde consists of Orcs, Trolls (Jungle, Forest, some Sand, some Frost, any that come are welcomed), Goblins (Kezan and Steamwheedle), Tauren (further in-land), Ogre, Taunka (a few envoy), Mantid (a few envoy), Hozen (small population), and a few Houjin Pandaren and Mogu (small population), and even some kobold, quillboar and centaur who are outcasts.

Orgrimmar is a metropolis of refugees, a shrapnel and gunmetal slumtown in the desert that's trying to build itself up proper. It is always at a loss for something, but the military is always funded enough to keep the city standing for one more day.

Idea is for a sort of hexcrawl domain game of adventuring and colonization with Orgrimmar as a place you can always go home to, but always need to assist with. It is a family not a government.

Switch mogu with youngol and I think it would be better.

I could see that, it was mostly the idea of a few Mogu bringing some of the esoteric nasty magic tech to the Horde in the Valley of Shadows; something to counteract the more forthright Houjin military philosophy. Nothing in huge numbers, but a few that are present and have nasty curious for sale and on display.

I haven't played properly since Wrath, so much of my knowledge is based on the rule of cool and general thoughts on how a pre-WoW Horde might deal with these things.

Looking at the Horde Player's Guide now, it had a few more good rules.

6. Savages. The Horde is just a collective of savages and diaspora survivors clinging together. They lack subtlety unless they have it in spades, and those combinations don't work out well. These are bloodthirsty people who see themselves as deserving survival after countless losses, wars, and attempted genocides. They will be quick to rage, rather than sorrow, if that is threatened.
7. Small Forces. Despite their power within the new continent, the Horde is still lacking in numbers proper. People are trying to get by and their constant lack of resources is a problem that drives them to desperate measures at times. They are the underdogs, but they are the few compared to the hornet's nest of Sillithids beneath the continent, the Centaur Khanate Hordes, the Razorfen Quillboar, or the Sentinels.
8. Technology. The Horde lacks technology like the alliance has, and what they can get is culture-shockingly gap-creating stuff. The magitech of some races and the raw destructive capabilities of others can bridge some gaps, but they are often more trouble than they're worth. Not to mention the scarcity issue. If the Alliance can give crates of guns to the Grimtotem, those Grimtotem have a great advantage over the few Orcs in Orgrimmar who have ever even held one.

Getting into more of a theme of desperate survival where expansion is a common desire.

About number 7, yeah i can see them being outnumbered by the Silithids, but the should be about equal numbers to centaurs and quillboars and more than the NE Sentinels. Besides the Sentinels are more of a guerilla, hit and run force anyway.

Also, think of trade and horde holdings and what would threaten them. Ratchet? That human keep in Durotar which I forgot the name of? How trade will be affected between Org and TB during Vanilla and how those shipments have to be airlifted during cata onwards.

For Timeline Purposes:
>WC3 is core.
The world is fresh from WC3. The Burning Legion was defeated, the Scourge and the remnants of the Legion lurk in the dark corners of Kalimdor. The Orcs have settled in and fought off Grand Admiral Proudmoore. Kalimdor is largely an unknown for anyone but the Night Elves, most of whom are still asleep.

Everything that comes after is up in the air for picking and choosing what looks cool and what might be fun to explore.
>Numbers
I'd say for a direct threat they could fight off most things, but it is a matter of getting those various factions within Orgrimmar to cooperate together to handle the small problems that hinder inner-faction conflict. The Darkspear had to give up Voodoo and Cannibalism to be part of the Horde proper, and those are hard habits to break. The Tauren are exceptionally peaceful and revere the nature that the Horde needs to slash and burn to stay afloat. The Forsaken allies to the Horde make everyone a bit nervous and they stick to Lordaeron for a reason, same with the potential allies within the Blood Elves. Ogres are seen as gluttonous and stupid, only "giving their fair share" when it comes to violence. The Goblins are in it for the money and to leave their mark, but mostly the money. Hozen, Mantid, Yaungol, Mogu are all curios and independents, not large enough in any number to do too much.

They're a family, but not everyone is going to back one another at all times. They need to get better at that, and concentrate on the bigger picture. I think the theme of everyday survival will be important, because Orgrimmar is a few foul remarks away from a gangland situation.

Trade with Ratchet makes sense, but Ratchet's contending with pirates and trying to exploit the Barrens while also contending with industrial intrigue from the Venture Company. Which is in turn pissing off the Tauren.

So cohesively, the Horde is trying to get along. Everyone is trying to get along as best they can, but when one group moves another one gets pushed a little. A rising tide may raise all ships, but it can batter the hell outta them against the docks.

Orgrimmar is crowded, there's not enough to go around but people try, crime isn't up but it is present and it is organized, old cults and beliefs are springing up just as fast as the new cults and beliefs. The people are trying to make the best they can for themselves out of a drought-blasted wasteland, but self-sufficiency farming is not living; it is just surviving.

And then you have the Alliance sending expeditions from across the sea, causing violence and trouble but you can't really strike back at them until they've already pushed you. A lot of them are survivors of the Scourge; but plenty are profiteers looking to stake a claim on what was supposed to be your second chance. Dwarves are dredging up your ancestral relics to put in a museum, Gnomes are bringing in tech that is frankly dangerous in a whole different way than the Goblins, and that's to say nothing of how Humanity is making deals with Furbolgs and the Night Elves.

Suddenly it looks like if you're not willing to branch out and take what you need for the Horde, the Alliance will take it out from under you. And who is to say they won't come in right after you fight with all your blood, sweat and tears against Centaur, Pig-man, and Silithid and just take it from you because you're tired and weak?

With Belves/Forsaken as sort of a non-situation due to their Eastern location, the interior threats of the Horde then have less to do with ulterior motives across the sea and more to do with the fact that unless they break this land to them, it might be taken from them. And they need to find a way to agree on this and do this before they starve, succumb to in-fighting, or get beaten down by an exterior threat.

Maybe think of it in stages.

Stage one: Road to TB.
Main objecting; Build a road from Orgrimmar to TB
So there two ways. Org to Razor Hill to Crossroads (to be constucted) to Taurajo and Bloodhoof village and TB. And the secondary road along the southfury river.
From there, we can put your PCs against the quillboar, the centaur, building Xroads under seige and many other minor threats like wildlife, lack of resources, heatstroke which causes Barrens chat, and sidequests like getting the road to Ratchet for a bunch of gobbo money
And so on.

I like that. It is a loose enough frame-work to allow for some hexploration and domain gaming while still keeping everything very wild and uncertain. Thank you.

Opens up plenty of room for weirdness and other such threats. My main issue in all this is not railroading the PCs with the things that need doing, but giving them a good bit of exploration with a solid central location that they need to settle and fortify for the sake of getting goods and services ought to work out just right.

Are feralas tauren different enough from barrens tauren to receive a subspecies thing in a D&D-like rpg?

Why would the Horde have a small amount of guns when you already allowed goblins into the horde?

Fair point. I'm just spitballing general concepts, looking to see what sticks. Guns I could see being in shortage if only due to them being built for goblins, and the lack of proper resources for making new quality ones stopping them from dominating the market via mass-manufacturing. That and perhaps some of the ones they brought out to sell originally with some "modifications" for Orcish and such hands ended up exploding. You maim one marksman, word will carry. Especially after he beats you to death with his stump.

But I'll think of something more proper.

I figured they were more interested in the bombs rather than the guns. Easier to use, no maintainence, the trigger was too small for larger hands, remember goblin sappers and so on. Sure some hordies were interested but i figured they were more interested in goblin bombs and explosives rather than guns.

Would you want to touch a gun built by goblins? Would you even want to be in the same building?

Believing dwarven lies our guns are technological marvels and are among the best in Azeroth and yes we can build tauren sized guns if they paid us of course.

Probably not. They're still pretty much the same Tauren, although their culture might be a bit different due to the different environment.

You know what's weird? Theres a tauren subspecies on every continent except the eastern kingdoms. I mean, hell, an island that arose less than 15 years ago has mooserens.

They retconned it to just the Broken Shore rising. The Broken Isles likely had some mist about them to prevent peeps from coming there.

>play a tauren
>finally get to Townlong Steppes
>the yaungol are boring as shit and literally only exist so there could be a Mongol expy in not-China
th-thanks

>demons can cross between different timelines
>any mortal that gets corrupted hard enough becomes a full demon
>at the end of Warlords a bunch of arakkoa get corrupted by the Shadow Council so they can fly again
fingers crossed for more birbs in Legion

The guy who made the Troll race rules for 5th edition here. I also made rules for Draenei.

pretty cool, but maybe add in a bit under alignment about non-lawful good draenei tending to fall to evil eventually? Might be unfeasible to implement in D&D though

You really gonna trust this corporate advertising, anons? It's your skin out there. Bows and hatchets are time-tested.

PRC Stronk

on the bright side the kazoo inn song is the best in the game

best thing in the expansion

youtube.com/watch?v=1waVSu4adDM

is she confirmed to be shipped with valeera?

I thought Valeera was to be shipped with Anduin.

nah. Valeera is too pure for that

So anything happened with Valeera after comics?

addicted to card games

Yeah, but Hearthstone is not shipping characters together.

shes dead bruh

>what is Warsong Commander (rip) and Grim Patron

A group of Darkiron dwarves gangbanging a female orc.

>hey everyone! get in here!

Apparently she's a Rogue follower in Legion.

Why Draenei girls are best girls?

You can literally see how she's looking forward to that puppy growing up into a big strong hound to give her the knot.

ohhh right, alternate universe bullshit where everyone isn't dead. I guess blizz can do w/e they want with this xpac.

Nah, it's the same character. The only AU stuff they've done was on Draenor, and they seem to be brushing pretty much all of that under the rug, except AU Gul'dan who shows up in Legion as a villain.

>fangs
This is my fetish.
Nelf and draenei girls are the best.

I'm convinced that Varian had Valeera sent away to do card games because she kick-started Anduin's puberty, and he didn't want her making a man out of him or getting addicted to elf-booty.

Hell, Anduin getting some confidence would be a good thing.

>Dad, can I ask you something?
>Gladly, my son.
>Father, why is it my private parts tingle whenever Valeera is around?
>By the light! I- realized I'm late for a meeting. I'll answer your quention when I get back, Anduin.

>later

>Valeera, I have a most important assingment for you.
>My blades are yours, Varian.

>Valeera and Anduin make eye-contact in a hallway
>Valeera openly licks her lips
>Anduin goes pink and runs to the nearest room

Varian should let anduin see gachi.
That will straighten him.

well im confused now then, she definitely dies at the end of deadmines. is legion taking place in the past or some shit?

>Nelf and draenei girls are the best.
I know, right?

But Anduin is playing cards with Valeera.

Valeera has the entire alliance friendzoned, she only bangs orcs.

DELETE THIS

Don't forget the Echo Isles and Sen'jin Village south of Orgrimmar.

>playing cards

How definite is anything when the PCs are drugged out of their minds?

Apparently, that's actually what happened. Vanessa VanCleef appears as a member of the Uncrowned at first. When asked how she survivied the Deadmines, she said she was such an ace alchemist and poisoner that the PC party raiding the Deadmines hallucinated the entire thing.

>ywn smoke the dank bud with vanessa and then fuck her after completing a mission

if you pay $60 and pre order legion, and have a rogue, that dream can come true.

not worth it

>Implying any kush is superior to Darkspear and tauren kush
Alliance dogs can't handle REAL dank shit.

Only rogues get to bang Vanessa.

Also, reminder that warlocks get the Eredar Twins from Sunwell Plateau as order hall minions.

>be DK
>get sally whitemane
>the DK trainer lady
its all good

>kill some crazy warlock bitch and her sister while fighting the legion
>spend months farming that booty (and belt and wrists)
>6 years later both show up at your door with them bedroom eyes.

Blizzard what?

It'd be especially awkward if you were that same warlock who fought them back at Sunwell Plateau.

>Well, well. Look what we have here, Alythess. I remember that little face.
>Is that...? It IS, Sacrolash! It's they tiny little warlock we met all those years ago back at the Sunwell.
>My, how time flies. You were quite the little runt back then, weren't you? Your demons were pitiful, your hellfire could scarcely light a candle...
>...and don't forget the thirty-nine friends he had to bring to banish us the first time.
>I still call that one a fluke.
>And look at you now. So big and strong.
>And handsome.
>And handsome. After all, you were able to secure this entire planetoid for yourself.
>Trapping us here in the process and cutting us off from the rest of the Burning Legion.
>But make no mistake, our little warlock.
>While you toil away here to beat back the Legion, we will test you.
>We will torment you.
>We will make you beg for us and our aid.
>We're going to find out if you're as great a man as you appear to be.
>After all, you've had a few years to get stronger.
>So get cozy, warlock.
>We're going to have LOTS of fun with you.

>The Darkspear had to give up Voodoo and Cannibalism to be part of the Horde proper
Wasn't that only in the RPG? I don't really see the point of gimping their magical practices like that. I'd suggest letting them keep their religion and magics, especially if you're allowing the much shadier Mogu in.

Canonically, after rescuing and recruiting the Darkspears, Thrall tells them to cut it out with the cannibalism and voodoo; it's unsettling to everyone else. The Darkspear were able to denounce/find alternatives for cannibalism, as well as minimize their voodoo usage.

Keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things, Darkspears are extreme outliers when it comes to general troll behavior and customs. Zandalari aside, they are literally the most civilized trolls in the world.

>>...and don't forget the thirty-nine friends he had to bring to banish us the first time.
Sunwell Plateau was a 25 man

Did they downsize the raids in TBC? I thought that wasn't until Wrath.

vanilla was the only time raids were 40 man, BC introduced 25 mans and made actual 10 mans instead of 5 mans so hard you got to raid them

I am that warlock, main'ed a destro/demo lock since a few months before the launch of tbc, had to have killed those two every week until we finally downed m'uru.

UBRS, good times.

Man, now I'm all rose tinted glasses and halcyon days.

Yes, but the Darkspear and Vol'jin blatantly use voodoo, and I can't find a reference to it being banned in a non RPG source. While their magic might be unsettling, it's a good deal safer than what Warlocks or Mogu get up to.

I think the Voodoo is probably fine to keep around, even if some of the more fucked up practices might be banned.

Oh yes. Make sure to have the Echo Isles be their proper fucking size and give the Darkspear a major role in supplying nearby Horde settlements with food, since their islands are more lush and fertile than anything else in the vicinity. Give them a solid fishing industry with fishing ships too, since Darkspears have been islanders for quite some time.

It'd be a nice way to make the Trolls more relevant to the Horde. They could even work as the main seafaring race, borrowing how Troll Destroyers were the main ships of the Old Horde.

Night elves are going to be +2 WIS and +1 DEX, right?

regarding Troll Berserking, why not make it less limited but have it incur in some penalty? like reduced AC or additional damage recieved.
As it stands, it doesn't really feel like 'going batshit insane for a moment'
Maybe have it work like Extra Attack and keep it 1/day or make it a special attack that uses an action and works per short rest. Hell, even something like additional crit damage as half-orcs get could work well

I also feel Regeneration should affect magical healing too in some form. Why shouldn't it?

Yeah, the Darkspears still use voodoo, but it's a more tempered connection.

Berserking seems silly to keep when 5e already has an entire class based around the same idea.
Want your troll to berserk? Make him a barbarian.
The idea of a troll priest or hunter "berserking" seems silly anyways.

Well yeah, I think they would have to cut back on certain sacrificial practices that other tribes might engage in, but voodoo itself wouldn't be banned.

Hell, I imagine the bans wouldn't even be on voodoo itself and would apply to the magics of all races. Things like "no sacrificing intelligent races" would have an impact on Warlock magic too.
>No female Draenei cranial plates.
Is it wrong that I sometimes prefer the sharper and more alien look of this old piece of art over the softer design they ended up going with?

I personally don't disagree, but what sort of replacements make sense or be balanced?

I'm not really familiar with the rules of race design.

>Implying warlocks listen to your mainstream rules and regulations
Sounds like something SHEEP would do, not someone enlightened and superior like myself.

Whether they actually obey the law is irrelevant. What matters is that the laws probably wouldn't specifically target voodoo while allowing non-trolls to perform similar acts.

Of course, plenty of people, whether Trolls or other races, would probably ignore those laws whenever convenient.