/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

I honestly mistook his art for stuff MK did for a while.

but why? It's not like the Falmer are ever doing anything labor intensive that they can't do themselves. The only exception are surface expeditions, since they can't handle bright light

>Why does anyone keep slaves?

Good point, but the Falmer don't seem advanced enough to require it. Slaves require water and food, that's fairly expensive given that there isn't exactly unlimited amounts of food inside dwemer ruins.

How is that new Mistress Therana romance joke mod btw? Is it actually funny and lore friendly?

I guess the larger question is how they even got there in the first place. The Falmer don't take well to the surface, so if I had to guess I'd reckon most were children that found their way into the ruins, and then were raised by them.

Either that or they're slaves from the surface that are wanted. It's not like dwemer ruins are easy to accidentally walk into.

Slaves are not pets. Slaves are slaves. They can drink from leaking pipes and eat the fungus, scraps of the charus' meals, or their own dead. You can starve a slave for months and they can still preform labor.

And it doesn't matter that the Falmer don't absolutely NEED slaves, it matters that they can take them, emulate the dewmer, and focus more of their population to militant or expansionary activity rather than building or digging. And the Falmer can survive on the surface in the right conditions, and are just as dangerous as they are underground, as seen in Ghosts in the Snow.

...

>They can drink from leaking pipes and eat the fungus, scraps of the charus' meals, or their own dead. You can starve a slave for months and they can still preform labor.

yes but not efficiently. Slaves are technically a form of currency (especially if there's a labor shortage, like there clearly is in the dwemer ruins) and treating them extremely badly means they generate less money (or food, or what have you). Even at the most basic level, why bother corralling them in the first place if there is no obvious activity for them to preform? The only two I can think of is either farming or digging since the Falmer aren't smart enough to have them do anything else.

The only other answer is using them as sacrifices, but even then why bother breaking them at all?

Farming and digging are extremely important - They need both to support the huge population and to allow invasions. The slaves themselves are worthless to the falmer, seeing as they have little problem getting more. Between breaking into forts and lighthouses, ravaging caravans, and dragging anyone unfortunate enough to cross their path screaming into the pits, they have ample means to replace them.

And once again, it allows them to focus more on military activity and on breeding.

There can't be a labor shortage and no activity for them to perform.

I didn't claim they weren't important, but I also can't see how the Falmer are developed enough to have any objective other than survival. They choose to live in tents/shacks, rather than their old masters homes for example.

Also they clearly don't have an infinite source of slaves, given that they're only seen inside Blackreach (which was a major city/place for the Dwemer) and that they're not considered a major threat to surface people (beyond being a boogeyman).

Which brings me back to my point: why bother with it. The Falmer are up to something, but it's never named because todd is a hack

that's the problem here: there's only about 30 of them, but there's no obvious activity they could be doing beyond perhaps farming

which leads me to believe the answer has to do with magic (sacrifices, perhaps?). Remember, the only slaves we see are the ones inside Blackreach, which obviously has a lot of unique magical phenomena in it (including it's own dragon)

Firstly, most of the proper dwemer ruins that the falmer haven't claimed, and even many of them they have, and full of constructs and active traps, which are for all intents seem to be self-replenishing based on having seen Spiders repairing equipment in Skyrim and ESO. Yes I cited ESO, please refrain from spewing your dank memes. This makes recolonizing a bit of a bitch.

Secondly given that the falmer have gone from a superstitious myth in Bloodmoon, to a boogyman in the early 4th Era, to actively invading settlements or mines and attacking travelers by the time of Skyrim, it would seem they are becoming more aggressive and planning to make a push at the surface.

Let's take a look at what Blackreach has: glowing mushrooms (which can increase shock resistance) and geode viens (which produce corundum and ebony ore along with gems and soul gems). So clearly the slaves are there to mine geodes (aka, soul gems) and farm glowing mushrooms for the Falmer. Since geodes can spawn grand and black soul gems, there's a a strong reason to mine it all out since it means more powerful magic spells.

The enslaved become the slavers, I guess.
Falmeri history is rather tragic.

Speaking of Falmer, the concept art really seems to emphasise the symbiotic relationship between Falmer and Chaurus that I wish had been expressed clearer in Skyrim.

He's my favourite fan artist. So much outstanding and imaginative work.

I'm sincerely disappointed that charus being mounts never panned out. I guess them being equivalent to dogs is alright, but the art for the falmer riders was just amazing.

Also forgot: Blackreach has whatever Aetherium is, which allows for the construction of Dwemer metal. But the Falmer have no obvious use for this, since they use their own weapons and not Dwemer ones. Perhaps they found a use for it, or are still attempting to mine it after their masters left.

Adamowicz concept art was superior to this
check his artbooks you faggot

Hey, I'm sure the other guy could be great with some polish and professional support.

And, you know, one's dead and the other's not.

For anyone curious about that Arena experiment: after that glitched nightmare land that happened because I went into an exterior, I started going south-southeast from Old Gate instead of north-northwest from Thorkan Park. That's been going for about 5 hours now. 7 more and we'll know whether the manual's wrong about the 12 hour estimate or not. Even if nothing happens I'll keep it going for as long as possible. If by next week's thread the map still says I'm nearest to Old Gate then I'll have to conclude that Arena's wilderness is effectively infinite and unique to each city as opposed to the real open world of Daggerfall and later TES games.

If it is the case that nothing happens after a week, we'll try again with the fully unpatched floppy version in case Bethesda changed how the wilderness worked in some update. The patch notes do contain a few lines about traveling and wilderness inns specifically, so there may be some small chance that traveling between towns was made impossible as a side effect of one of them.

>but actually plenty of Dwemer technology makes sense and we know some things about Sotha Sil's technology
From a practical sense no, they really don't. Nothing the Dwemer have can really even be called futuristic regardless. None of the things created really improve on irl technologies at all beyond what is clearly out of the ass magical stuff. The same kind of goes for Sotha Sil, which while aesthetically designed to look slightly futuristic, is pretty damn well based in the realm of fantasy.
>Theopunk is like bit cyberpunk or steampunk, but technology is powered by gods, belief and theology. Basically Numidium, ALMSIVI and most of shit related to those
Sounds like a word made up to relate to TES. Regardless, Numidium is really very far from the idea of Sci-fi. It's not 'big robot', It's a fucking god built in the completely unconventional ways you would build a god. I don't really understand ALMSIVI's connection to sci-fi, unless you are referring specifically to Sotha Sil who is still fantasy based.
>but it's clearly fantasy magitech variety and there's nothing in it that doesn't fit with Elder Scrolls. Personally I think KINMUNE is interesting and worthwhile because it uses what are sci-fi tropes turned into Elder Scrolls and fantasy.
The fact that it is science fiction based is exactly why it DOESN'T fit in with Elder Scrolls. It's just a bullshit tangent Kirkbride throws off on the lore to make people think 'oh wow this isn't what I expected.' Then he claims shit like 'TES was always sci-fi' to add an empty sense of depth and meaning to everything he's written that does nothing but create a cult of circlejerking over how "unique" he makes the lore.
It's literally no different than George Lucas saying shit like 'oh Star Wars was never Sci-fi, it's a soap opera,' it's just fucking masturbation.
KINMUNE is just another example of how MK can write whatever bullshit he wants and people will eat it up just the same because it's 'totally not generic'.

>None of the things created really improve on irl technologies at all beyond what is clearly out of the ass magical stuff.

Not the guy you're responding to but I take it that the Dwemer were exceptionally good with penumatic devices, which allowed them to have almost modern plumbing systems and mail systems. One could even guess that the lights inside their cities/ruins aren't powered by magic, but by an embedded gas system. Laying in a worship somewhere is a protype air gun or cannon.

just my .02

I really suspect that it's one of those intended features that never got included. Arena changed so much from its original vision during development that it became an entirely different game. You controlled a party of gladiators at some point in development.

As a sidenote, the cities of Daggerfall and Soulrest were apparently moved because the designed map didn't fit with the buttons on the travel map. So Daggerfall was supposed to be on the Iliac Bay, more or less were it was in later games, but those buttons you see in the bottom left got in the way. Soulrest was supposed to be more inland and further south.

>Star Wars was never Sci-fi
That's mostly true, and Star Wars is at its best the less Sci-Fi it is.

>Laying in a worship somewhere is a protype air gun or cannon.
Tribunal has actually centurions armed with pneumatic guns.

Yeah, it's called science fantasy and that's what MK's "sci-fi" stuff really is about. Diffrence being that science fantasy is like sci-fi, but instead of real science based technology, you have fantasy science based technology and usually some form of magic.

Star Wars is definitely sci-fi. Yes the story in whole is essentially a hero's journey epic, but it is still pretty straightforward sci-fi with some mystical fantasy mixed in.
It's best described as a space opera.

Adam was GOAT.

Star Wars never tries to tell a Sci-Fi story, nor be about the Sci-Fi elements though. It's only science fiction in setting, and then only barely that. The word "science" has nothing to do with it. Star Wars is even less about science fiction that Flash Gordon is.

I'm not saying that it doesn't have anything to do with science fiction, but it's very much not "straightforward sci-fi".

Dwemer technology in Morrowind does some what make sense in relation to real technology it is based on, but combined with magic sometimes.

You have filament based electric light bulbs (these appear to be no magical at all aside being magically impossibly durable like all Dwemer stuff) and what appear to more magical form electrically powered lights which use ebony. There's what is obviously electrical generators that look like steam turbines and are called "dynamos" in construction set. Then there is interesting mystery of tubes and coherers. Coherer is primitive real life radio technology and it's very unlikely they would chosen name like that if it doesn't mean something. This mystery ties nicely with some of Dwemer towers having what looks antennas and all the shit about calling that is assumed to be similar to Psijic telepathy, but is far likely to have something to do with those coherers.

It's a science fantasy setting because it has it's completely own kind of science that has very little to with actual science and our laws of physics. Haven't you ever read how blasters are supposed to work for example or how they have magnetic levitation that seems to be ripped straight from Viktor Schauberger's crackpot pseudoscience?

I always thought that tubes, cylinders and coherers were Dwemer versions of vacuum tubes.

>Haven't you ever read how blasters are supposed to work
No, since I don't really care about the books/media surrounding Star Wars. I'm mainly thinking about the original trilogy, which is essentially a fantasy story that happens to be set in a setting that's not typical for fantasy.

Coherer's predate vacuum tubes though, see:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer

Dwemer tubes do look like vacuum tubes, but Dwemer coherer is actually combination of what looks cylinder and two tubes, so they could all be likely just parts of coherers.

In Oblivion, among the Heaven Stones related to astronomical objects (Moons, Magnus, etc.) there is one called "Sithian Stone" which gives the "Sithian Web" power.

What the hell is this one supposed to represent?

>Sithian
Could be Sithis aka the void outside Aetherius?

So do you think we'll ever hear about the Nerevarine's trip to Akavir?

Holy shit, I'm stupid. That's most likely it.

Probably not because we have never heard about other heroes either with sole exception of CoC possibly being Sheogorath in Skyrim, but CoC is very special case among heroes since he actually became god. Generally it's like a TES tradition that heroes disappear.

Probably the veil.

There isn't anything outside Aetherius.

>There isn't anything outside Aetherius.

That's fitting, because Sithis embodies 'is not'.

>not replying "No, there is Nothing outside of Aetherius."
One job, user, and I set it up for you perfectly.

Damn it.

I think it's kind of nice that the heroes all settle down in some way, especially for the Eternal Champion and the Agent. They deserve rest.

Which in-universe organization best represent /tgesg/, and why is it the Lusty Argonian Historical Society?

>not the Biters

I think the fact that there's nude mods for Arena is sort of hilarious.
nexusmods.com/tesarena/mods/7

Almost certainly Oblivion.
Sithis is supposed to be part of the Aurbis, not the Void which is literally something that is not there.

>Almost certainly Oblivion.
meant for

So I'm still not understanding exactly what CHIM is, anyone care to explain it to me like I have a disability?

They were a new race and they're all dead though.
I thought it was like this and Sithis being another name for Padomay. Things outside Aurbis aren't really things, but more like forces of order and chaos.

You see, when Vehk and Vehk loves himself very much, he achieves a greater form of understanding.

Well, Nerevarine became immortal, and we heard just about as much about him as CoC, which, admittedly, is basically nothing

but not for daggerfall

It's just enlightment that you everything is one and you do not really exist as an individual, but instead of zero-summing you love yourself so much that you keep existing despite being everything. Dagoth Ur was inversion of this basically being all is me rather than me is all.

If Ebony is Lorkhan's blood and Moons are parts of his body, I imagine there must be a shitton of Ebony Ore on Masser and Secunda, right?

protip: only paid users can view the link

>I thought it was like this and Sithis being another name for Padomay. Things outside Aurbis aren't really things, but more like forces of order and chaos
Sithis is not another name for Padomay, Sithis is the idea of Padomay as applies to the Aurbis. The interplay of Sithis and Anui-El IS the Aurbis. The Aurbis itself is the mind of Anu and therefore there is nothing that exists outside of it. The Void is the idea of that nothing. Imagine what the Aurbis was like before it was dreamed, that is the Void.

Oblivion is sometimes called the Void too though.

Yah, and that tends to cause some confusion. Oblivion and Sithis are both often called the void, but they aren't THE Void.

How do you get to own a plane of oblivion?
They aren't all claimed, right? Like with how Mankar with Paradise and made it into his own with the mysterium xarxes.
If you somehow got into some unowned plane, could you make it your own, or would you need actual power to do anything?

It's recognizing that you don't really exist. I liken it to lucid dreaming. That moment when you realize that you're in a dream, 90% of the time you wake up. For dwellers of Mundus, waking up would be very bad since their very existence is the "dream". CHIM is the rare moment when you can realize that you're dreaming, but you don't wake up; in lore terms, not waking means asserting that you exist even though you're now aware that you really do not. Now that you're aware of the dream like nature of your reality, you can manipulate it, much like in a lucid dream.

Any sources on this? I checked the UESP article and everything seems to point just to Oblivion.

You just need an account.
i.imgur.com/W1R04hW.png

>The first ones were brothers: Anu and Padomay. They came into the Void, and Time began
elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Annotated_Anuad
>All creation is subgradient. First was Void, which became split by AE. Anu and Padomay came next and with their first brush came the Aurbis.
imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel
>Anu and Padhome, stasis and change, both vast realms sitting in the void
>Outside the wheel is the void, bereft of anything. It cannot be named. If it has more aspects than stasis and change, they are outside of true language
>Some were like Lorkhan and discovered the void outside of the Aurbis, though if some saw the Tower I do not know, but I know that, if they did, none held it in such high esteem. In any case, some of those that did see the void created its like inside the Aurbis, but each of these smaller voids sought each other out. Void shall follow void; the etada called it Oblivion
imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching

Thanks.

I just downloaded Daggerfall. Should I play Arena first?

I'd say you should, Arena's a fair amount easier to get accustomed to and will provide a great introduction to Daggerfall.

>Agent
Oh boy do I have some news for you...

what?

>The agent of the Blades is believed to have been killed in the process.
The agent supposedly died when Numidium was activated, although because time cucking, he might be alive somewhere, probably not in the current timeline.

Forgot to tag the one I was replying to as well.

>The agent supposedly died when Numidium was activated
sauce?

[url]uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West_(event)[/url]

An actual source please.

Awesome

imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-narrative

I'm allowed to dream.

It's possible to survive being stomped by the Numidium, right?
Please tell me it's possible, user.

It's only one of 6 canon endings. If Jills mended the timelines so all the endings happened, there must be at least one alive version of the Agent, just like there are both Mannimanko and the God of Worms.

>It's possible to survive being stomped by the Numidium, right?

and accounts cost $5, it redirects me to their forums

is this a new thing? I remember having a free account years ago

>"If you do not want to buy Premium Membership simply skip this step by pressing "Create Account" at the bottom of the page"
Reading is pretty useful.
That said, I had no idea they did paid "premium" stuff now. Sounds absolutely retarded.

This. Numi is pure antithesis, he transcends Time and Space. If he unmakes something, it's unmade. The best that Aka and the Jills can do is get a rug and hope it covers up the hole.

If he Unmade the Agent, you are right. If he just stepped on him - no.
Unless Numidium Unmakes everything he steps onto.

That could be problematic for the ground beneath him

Hence Landfall.

The Agent's fate is purposefully left unknown.
Please stop trying to ruin this by saying the Agent was killed.

We're just speculating, chill out.

Is there an actual in game source for landfall

No, it's pure MK territory.

Hard to really be one when most about it was written after the latest TES