Pathfinder General - /pfg/

Pathfinder General - /pfg/

How many beguilers could a beguiler beguiler beguile if a beguiler beguiler could beguile beguilers?

Unified /pfg/ link repository:
pastebin.com/YhdxTQS6

Previous thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Frilogarma
d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/suzerain-creature-cr-1
pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Bokrug
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

I want to marry Tome of Battle!

I bet Warblades are fantastic husbandos.

I want to wed Greta and help her retrain her Fighter levels as Zweihander Sentinel Warder ones.

Reposting:

Something has been bugging me for a long while, /pfg. I want to make a strong non-magical fighter - I am already pretty happy with the Psy Warrior, Ranger, Paladin etc for somewhat magical ones, but I want a mundane fighter that can be a serious asset to the party until level 15 or so without anything fancy. Path of War is nice and all, but I want a muggle that can take the pain and bring it back. What would it take to achieve that?

Here is my assessment on fighters' negatives:
almost nothing to do outside of a fight
limited scaling – weak later on
large issues in defense (weak saves)
limited tactics because of limited mundane feats
no innate scaling of needed features (reliant on equipment
Some weak features (bravery, armor training to a point)

Strengths:
flexibility in access to feat chains /VMC use (plenty of feats)
Versatile combat bonuses that apply in many situations and do not require triggering

Overall, I think they hold up somehow until the early mid levels, but can't catch up later on - so they need some fun stuff early and a lot of punch and tricks later.

Pathfinder is not the game you should play for that.

You are trying to play a non magical character in a high magical system.

By level 15, your character has probably benefited from Teleport and Raise Dead spells, and has a set of magical weapons and tools.

The best you can probably do is a Warder or Warlord that never takes the supernatural disciplines (Steel Serpent, Veiled Moon, Solar Wind, etc.)

Repost from closed thread (this is as a houserules idea, I would rather avoid Path of War, psionics or another supernatural system for this)

My idea how to do this:

Suggestions:

use unchained rules for skill groups, +1 for background skills - more skills and stuff to do
use unchained automated bonus progression - can get necessary bonuses by default and use remaining cash for utility/style items
Combat stamina free for all martials

- Bravery - + ½ level to saves vs fear, combat stamina pool
-- count as half (current rate) for features that build off it like armed bravery
-- can spend up to max in stamina points for immediate action bonus on a save
Armor training 2 and 4 get +1 to AC and double that for AC vs critical confirmation each
heavy armor at full speed at level 11
weapon training – gives bonuses to attack, all CMB and CMD stats, and insight ac vs this weapon type, and double the current damage bonus
New features (mid to high level)
- can regain combat stamina through defeating an enemy or a crit
- can use Combat Stamina for temporary HP
- use combat stamina (a lot) to replicate hero point effects
- add to effective level for automatic bonus progression for arms and armor
- Weapon supremacy as a feat or class feature – pick one weapon, double all feature and feat bonuses for it. (level 13+, possibly a feat other martials can pick up at BAB 15+)
- Criticals against an enemy with 2/3 or less their level in HD can kill as coup de grace
- Get the current capstone at level 15 or so
- New capstone lets them reroll one missed attack per round.

How would you rate this in terms of power and likely fun?

Have you looked into Weapon Master's Handbook?

It gives fighters options to beef up their saves (One gives them their weapon training to Reflex saves, and another gives Bravery to all Will saves), and things like Cut/Smash from the air can give them some really nice reactive defenses.

Plus, the ability to substitute their BAB for the number of ranks in certain skills, really expanding their skill selection and making up a little for that 2+int thing.

Plus, Focused Weapon means they can have the same damage dice with a dagger as with a greatsword.

How would you translate fate/stay servants to pf?

I want to become a Merlucent!

I have seen it, and it has some nice stuff. I presume that stuff and some of the unchained rules are included.

A beguiler beguiler could beguile no amount of beguilers since a beguiler beguiler can't beguile beguilers.

How would you make this better?

Without changing any of the stats or abilities (even keeping all 19 levels in ranger), change the CR to 14.
Bam, it's suddenly decent and fitting for its CR.

Cheese. Lots of cheese.

And this

When you gave fighters Automatic Bonus Progression, they stopped being mundane.

Any reasons?

I'm afraid that is right, hidden signs doesn't work against other beguilers and significantly hampers their ability to beguiler other beguilers.

It's on par stat-wise with the average CR 14 bestiary entry.
Fuck paizo guidelines, statistics is what matters.

WarderX/Student of War2 seems like it could be really good. Is it worth multiclassing for a defensive-focused Warder, or just go full Warder to maximize maneuver progression?

Why can't Paizo be good at most things? What are their people doing?

They're mentally impaired. Please be understanding, user.

Give him the following GM fiat gimmick abilities:

>breastplate is an alloy of mithral and a magic-resistant metal that gives him SR 40 against all single-target spells aimed at him, which he can drop for any specific spell and then put back up as a free action
>can, as an immediate action, pay one of his Ranger spell slots to block a Conjuration (calling) spell cast that round
>has a second pool of HP equal to his normal HP - while it still exists, he's immune to fear effects, critical hits, negative energy, ability damage/drain, and death effects

High-end items, including a couple of greater slaying arrows (or an even better version that can actually kill you), actually decent weapons (something like the old magebane enchantment or the RotRL runeforged weapons would be nice), a lot of other items to mess with the party, some minions to harass the party and work off the hunter's bond, and it has to catch them by surprise.

Non!

What book is this anyway?

Why not change NPC statlines to fall in with PC gen rules?

The NPC Codex.

user, I LIKE THE CUT OF YOUR JIB.
This is a good race and would make an excellent PC. I like it a lot.

Stick to one class. You'll probably get a maneuver or class feature that makes up for what you would have gotten.

Isn't Greta really wimpy, by Winter Wolf standards?

Yes

If memory serves, she's less physically strong, but smarter?

Shouldn't rangers also get pass without trace?

Shouldn't he be an urban ranger?

Fair enough, that's what I thought.

Warder seems like a really cool and powerful class so I'm not complaining. Not entirely sure as to what route to go down with regards to items, though - it seems almost like it's better to go sword and board, and pump your shield bonus to high heaven.

Slightly lower STR, slightly higher INT and CHA than normal, if I remember correctly.

But for an intrepid young human, she's big and stronk and a CUUUUUUUTE.

Honestly, super no. Int to AC sounds nice, but when you're still reliant on your armor's max Dex rating, it's just more hoop jumping to get the benefits out of your class that you want.

Additionally, AC is a shit defense and you're better off not worrying too much about it after the first few levels. Grab some magic items for it and go about your day.

Retraining out of shitty class levels would probably help alleviate that, if only a little.

Additionally, she's still a super qt.

What's that PoW variant for rangers?

Time for a special edition of Alignment Wars!

Creating an intelligent disease with NG alignment, specifically designed to only infect and destroy a CE race that basically only feeds on innocent children.
Then releasing it upon the world to enact genocide without exception.

Good (aligned) idea, or bad (aligned) idea

>AC is a shit defense and you're better off not worrying too much about it after the first few levels.

Presumably that only applies to enemies that are not martials or enemies that do not make attack rolls, so very few?

What other forms of defence are realistically viable for a Warder to go for?

Personally I would say that this is a bad aligned idea, but can understand that some good people would be in favour of doing this.

>>Every time someone tried to end a war before it even starts, innocent people die.

Honestly, you don't build a Warder to be defensive. He's defensive on his own. You build a Warder to put motherfuckers in the ground, and he does it beautifully.

You're physically incapable of keeping up with the increasing attack bonuses of enemies as you level, so as long as you've got minimal investment into AC (decent armor, amulet of NA, ring of deflection) you'll probably be able to avoid most iteratives. That's all you can really hope to do. Spending much more than that will take away from what your job is SUPPOSED to be, namely murdering bad guys before they can kill your wards.

To be fair, every time someone tries to end a war once its started innocent people die.

As for the original question, I'd say good aligned, but heavily chaotic since its
>LETS UNLEASH THIS HORRIFIC PLAGUE UPON THE LAND, WHAT COULD GO WRONG!
>:D

Guys, I'm working on making a Sith Lord, (I asked for advice here a few weeks ago), but so far, This Arcane Bloodline isn't serving much purpose. I haven't even bothered picking familiar or bonded item (If i chose an item it'd be my sword)

Keeping in mind that I'm only taking Sorc to level 8, is there anything that might be more fitting for a Party Face Kallid Count-Dooku Wannabe?

I'm considering switching to Infernal.

>Be a brash, heroic warlord
>Marry Greta and constantly show off for her with Gambits and Maneuvers
>One day offer to teach her to be an Initiator
>Wager chores, treats, and sexual favors on the outcomes of sparring matches
>Use daring moves and tactics to catch her off-guard
>Occasionally get caught off-guard when she goes wolf, knocks you down, and sits on you
>Training going well, but every session ends with cuddles and/or lewds

That's weeb as shit, user!

That does seem to be reasonable, but our cleric is level 9 and has an AC of 43 so I'm not sure about being guaranteed to be hit by the full bab attack. That being said, given that Warders have maneuvers they can, as you say, use their base tankiness to compensate for going all out on offense.

>Level 9 with an AC of 43
What?

Yeah, I'm like 90% he's doing something hilariously wrong. 43 AC at level 9 either means he spent all of his money and spells on buffing JUST AC, or he's pulling something.

That is cute and I approve.

>My spider senses are tingling

This is wrong, i dont know in wich way, but must be wrong

>>tfw no cute gf that will be attracted to me

I get reminded of this on every board fuck you

So I'm trying to build a statblock for Queen Frilogarma for an Andoran-focused campaign, and I'm having trouble deciding on a bloodline for her. I want to avoid a fey bloodline, and options I'm leaning towards right now are shadow (based purely on looks and location), maestro (ties in to the dances of the Candlestone courtiers), and dreamspun (in case I want to lean hard on the ether part of the court of ether, although I'm guessing that might not really be what they mean). Have you got any input, /pfg/?

pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Frilogarma

Is Metaforge any good?

Eh. Going 3 levels so that you can form your weapon and armor at the same time is kind of nice, but it's been pretty much entirely superseded by Awakened Blade, which is just a better PrC all-around.

+5 fullplate, 14AC
+5 heavy shield, 7AC
combat expertise, 2AC
dodge feat, 1AC
shield of faith 3AC
barkskin 3AC
defensively fighting 2AC
dex mod +1AC

total bonus: +33AC,for an overall AC of 43

A level 9 character should never have one +5 item, much less two. The hell is your DM doing?

>+5 Fullplate and shield at level 9

Is he aware that you can only use combat expertise and fighting defensively when you actually make an attack, and it lasts one round? That it's not just a decision that you can make and then take no penalties by not making any attacks?

>+5 full plate
>+5 heavy shield
>at level 9
Yep, that's some bullshit right there. He's also invested effectively the entirety of his feats into AC, which means he's probably shit at everything else. You ALSO can't fight defensively when you're casting spells, which is why he's fucking there in the first place.

>+5 items
>lvl 9

Well FUCKING wrong confirmed.

Maestro is probably the best call.

If you want some real fun, give her the Suzerian template.
d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/suzerain-creature-cr-1

And laugh forever.

I may be mistaken, his armour and shield might be both +4 and he could have another spell going. Can't remember exactly, I just remember for sure he had an AC of 43.

I wasn't aware of that and likely neither is he, but he aims to get up in people's faces asap so it hardly matters.

It's a thing to be aware of, since you can't count as always having it active.

And if he's getting up in people's faces with both of those running, he's gonna have a tricky time actually hitting people.

+4 still makes it over 32000 gold, which is way more than a Cleric should ever spend on AC with Level 9 WBL. A Fighter maybe, but even that would be a stretch.

Either way, like other people have been saying, it is not possible to have AC that high at that level while staying good at anything other than soaking up hits. Even then, touch attacks would still ruin him.

Or using any of his spells. He's apparently just walking up to things and attacking them with a 1h weapon, with no feats or money invested in not being shit at that combat style.

Enemies can likely completely ignore him.

I think he primarily uses stuff with touch attacks, like touch of chaos which isn't rendered totally useless by having a low attack bonus.

In all fairness he's been hit in combat once in the last six sessions

He can cast buffs without caring about enemy attacks because they can't hit him

I haven't even listed all of the possibilities for defensive options, I think he has a couple of other spells cast by other party members but they're not always running

Looking for a perk that will let me multiclass, but keep my mount up to my full level. >.

It doesn't matter if he can't get hit if he can't be a significant threat to enemies. The point of a tank is to keep enemies on him, but if the tank isn't an issue the enemies need to deal with immediately, nothing stops the enemies from going after the people who are threats.

Boon Companion/Horse Master

>d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/suzerain-creature-cr-1

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Horse Master, but it requires expert trainer (so 3+ levels of cavalier)

Check out Inviliger as well, its from the same book and is the same thing but with Lies and Bullshit rather than Charms and Diplomancy.

>Session starts, do a fight, is easy as fuck and we start exploring
>mfw homunculus gets caught in a fireball trap
>mfw barely flops the reflex save
>mfw fireball trap drops her to EXACTLY 0 health, dies because construct and shit HP rolls
>have to book it back to town because the party's worried about me not having my one class feature
>mfw having to introduce the party to my character's mother so he can retrieve the blood he has in storage

I'm really, really glad that the Promethean's homunculus is really cheap to revive.

What makes Bolt Ace Gunslinger so much better than the normal Gunslinger?

Crossbows never explode in your fucking face. They're both pretty shit compared to effectively anybody with a composite longbow.

Crossbows are easier to use/own/maintain, and the features for Deeds all work towards making the crossbow an actually-decent weapon to focus on.

>GM will never allow Merlucent PC's
>GM will never allow Merfolk PC's

Should I just suck it up and play a Gillman?

Okay, I see.
So, what class/archetype should I go for if I wanted to be the best ranged DPR guy in the party, but without any magic (i.e. not Ranger)?

If they got rid of a gunslinger's drawbacks, would that make the class viable?

Play a Deep One Hybrid.
Worship Best OIld One
pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Bokrug
And direct him against your foes at high levels.

I am only doing a 5 level dip out of samurai so boon companion works perfectly, thanksies.

Inexplicable Reload + Repeating Crossbow = laughing at the concept of 'reload feats'

Warlord/Hawkguard Warder/Sohei or Zen Archer Monk/etc. Anybody who can fight with a Bow will work. But let me tell you, past level 4 or so, you're going to ALWAYS be covered in magic items, and the concept of a character "without any magic" is out the fucking window.

It's viable already. It's just subpar to archers by a significant margin.

I don't mind magic items, I just want to make sure it's not a caster, like Ranger.

If you consider the Ranger, of all things, to be a caster, then you're not going to have fun in PF. It's HEAVILY slanted towards classes with spellcasting, and the Ranger only barely has enough to even PRETEND to be one.

But if you're super intent on remaining 100% mundane, the Path of War is your only real option, unless you LIKE being a waste of space past a certain point. And even then, you end up using exclusively Tempest Gale, because the other ranged discipline is a Supernatural one.

Question about Warder.

Is the Zweihander Sentinel a better choice than the default class? Using a mithril buckler would be good for some more AC that I would be lacking due to no shield otherwise.

Also, the Cornugon Smash>Hurtful feat line seems really good. Is it worth taking them? For those that don't know, Cornugon Smash lets you demoralise someone with an intimidate check when you hit them with a power attack, and Hurtful lets you use a swift action to make an attack at your full BAB when you demoralise someone.

Presumably I take Advanced Study as many times as I can justify, right?

But user, I like being Good-aligned.

At what point am I a powergamer?

The other night my local group started giving me shit about my rogue/brawler being OP. I don't get it. A straight two-weapon fighter does more damage each round. A bard has higher skills. I don't have (m)any ranks in UMD...and I can only hit one target a round with a single attack. I'm using Snake Style and Sap Master.

The same group doesn't complain in the sleightest when I play my Oracle/Sorcerer Kitsune Enchanter and take out two enemies a round with extended DC25 Murderous Commands...But doing 11d6+17 nonlethal sneak attack damage on a charge is too OP?

Does Use Magic Device imply that the character has innate magical ability?
I'm building a mage-hating Inquisitor, and I want to make sure I don't fuck up. He'd never ever do anything even remotely arcane, so if UMD implies even a tiny bit of arcanery in the character, please let me know so I don't put ranks in it.

UMD doesn't imply magical ability, it just means you know how to work magic items. That INCLUDES divine items, not just arcane, so you're fine.

Sounds like they're just complaining.

People have a hard time really seeing whats OP or not. 11d6 sounds like a huge amount (and is well above normal damage die), so people will naturally balk at it, but all sorts of other nonsense will fly under their radar.

Well then, be CG.
Bokrug isn't evil as such, read the original The Doom that Came to Sarnath and he only shits up one kingdom because they enacted total genocide on his favored people.
Then had a party in the ruins a thousand years later to celebrate, like cunts.

Basically his entire thing is 'chill, get fed sometimes', amoral in the same way Calistria is.
But much less slutty and much cooler.

It wouldn't be hard to convince your GM to let you basically play an Ib variant I imagine, who becomes CN on rebirth.

I mean actually viable

Yes, ZS is effectively a straight upgrade to the normal Warder. Note, however, that you're going to be taking a constant -1 to hit at all times if you try to wear a buckler with a 2H weapon, and the extra couple AC isn't really worth that.

Cornugon Smash/Hurtful/Shatter Defense is a great combo for the Warder, especially if you pick up Eternal Guardian and/or Black Seraph while you're at it.

Rolling lots of dice makes people lose their goddamn minds. Fuck if I know why.

Firstly, ZS is not necessarily a better choice than the base class. It depends entirely on what you want the character to do.

Secondly, as a ZS, you will be getting a Shield bonus to AC from your weapon anyway, so having a Buckler will serve no purpose other than a drain on your wallet.

Thirdly, Cornugon Smash+Hurtful is a very good combination if you're okay with investing a lot into Intimidate

It IS actually viable. It's just not good. Don't try and conflate the two, because they mean entirely separate things.

Let's say I want to run a Pathfinder game with the "guns everywhere" rules, so the enemies will also mostly be packing firearms. I don't want to render heavy armor obsolete for those who want it, but using the armor as DR rules would render firearms almost entirely worthless. What should I do?

>you're going to be taking a constant -1 to hit at all times if you try to wear a buckler with a 2H weapon, and the extra couple AC isn't really worth that.
I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out.

>Eternal Guardian and/or Black Seraph
Unfortunately ZS doesn't have access to those, I could always take the Martial Training feats though. Still, that would be a drain on the already feat-heavy route I'd like to take.

I'd like to make a damaging character who is too dangerous to ignore like most tanks, but can also have an aspect of survivability and utility.

So, current plan: no buckler, pick up Cornugon Smash and Hurtful, look into Martial Training.

Also, do successive Cornugon Smash intimidates result in the -5 penalty listed on the intimidate skill check page?

>>Go to Golarion
>>get shot
:^)

add armor as temporary hp?