/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Woah. Spooky. I've also ran one wildly successful WoD game before, and it was the first Geist game I ever ran.

I definitely know the feels you guys are having. I'm trying to plan a game for this summer when my old group is free again (we're all either students or teacher), but the ideas just aren't coming together. I'm trying to nail something down, but it's daunting—I want to choose something that's easy enough for the players to get into, something I'll enjoy running, AND something that'll live up to the legacy of that one great game I ran before.

>Amy Lovelace (I know, the name's a little over-the-top; her parents were ridiculous New York yuppies, and I kinda wanted to convey that without having to give her a really stupid first name)
Wouldn't Lovelace just be... her last name? I mean, I can see it as a yuppie name, but not really? It's not like surnames are chosen.

That said, I keep wanting to make a Libertine with the Shadowname Lovelace as a reference to Ada Lovelace, widely considered to be the first computer programmer since she wrote an algorithm for the Babbage Analytical Engine.

Lovelace is also the surname Linda Boerman went by when she did porn movies like Deep Throat, the movie about a woman with a clitoris in the back of her throat. And yes, that is the reason the Watergate informant picked the name.

Honestly, I'm tempted to run some dumb one shot. Either a short Hunter game, or even something silly like Tactical Waifu.

Hey, all I'm saying is, even as the guy who came up with it the name sounds kind of Mary Sue to me. I acknowledge that fact.

>Wouldn't Lovelace just be... her last name?
I know. I just couldn't stand to give my character a legitimate yuppie name. I figured picking one that sounded sufficiently like a character from a YA fantasy novel would be good enough.

I did realize the (unintentional) similarity to Ada Lovelace after I named her, though. That might be part of why I'm wavering between her being a Mystagogue and a Libertine.

What even is a yuppie name?

>I did realize the (unintentional) similarity to Ada Lovelace after I named her, though. That might be part of why I'm wavering between her being a Mystagogue and a Libertine.
Will her Mage Sight and Praxis be a Matrixy HACK THE PLANET sort of thing?

Not exactly the direction I was intending, unfortunately. An Ada Lovelace-inspired character would be neat, but it doesn't really jive with the Sodality legacy I'd already had picked out before I even named her.

>What even is a yuppie name?
One of those ridiculous names that you see crop of every so often nowadays. Sometimes it's just a "normal" name with pointlessly weird spelling. Sometimes it's a really special-snowflake name the parents believe is cool, but their kid will probably resent.

Caxton. Brook Lynn. Aymie. La—a (pronounced "La-DASH-a"). Stuff like that.

>One of those ridiculous names that you see crop of every so often nowadays.

I named my child Xybon. It's pronounced "noel" 'cause there ain't no L.

I thought La-Em-Dash-a was a stereotypical black name.
Also, those sound like WASP names. Or Mormon.
fox13now.com/2015/01/19/mormons-love-oddball-baby-names-utah-blog-says/

While the result sounds like a Black stereotype name, I'm here to tell you that I can't see a Black person naming their kid La--a, and I've been Black my whole life.

Lets just stick to our Ay Ay rons.

That's good. I like that.

I don't even know if people use the term "yuppie" anymore, but there's certainly plenty of overlap between WASPs and yuppies.

It's from this snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

>Who was your last character you made

VtR2e

Tzimisce Kindred. First Estate. Thought he was a Nosferatu until his Sire told him what's what.

Has a dog ghoul and a Mage thrall. Spends a lot of his time around his haven; a college campus around it.

How did you do Tzimisce in 2e?

Bloodline for Nosferatu or Ventrue and just used one of the billion translations for vicissitude out there tweaked a bit.

That and Malkavian are popping up in this setting; the former for Nos/Vent and the latter for Mek/Daeva. Tzimisce represents Mutability of Body and Malk represents Mutability of Mind.

Higher ups are growing concerned of the "awakening" of these two bloodlines but most of the Kindred folk in the town don't know or don't give two shits currently.

That's all I know tho

Hey, anyone know what level of Spirit spell you would use to raise a Spirit's rank? Or for that matter, what level would a Mind spell be that makes a Goetia's rank higher.

Should be 4, its the example spirit spell. Logically thevsame should be true for mind as well.

Now that is an interesting question. I don't know the answer, but as a conservative st I have certain reservations with the concept.

It seems like if you took the long game, and just used a low level of spirit to keep feeding a low rank spirit essence of a certain type, eventually it should grow big and fat and rank up, right? But I don't have my book in front of me, and I realize now I don't know the normal mechanics for spirit rank ups.

That said, if someone wanted instant gratification spirit ranking, I would wonder immediately where the line is drawn, considering spirits eventually become 'godlike'. It would have to be archmastery or something right? Just so Joe schmoe does make a mote of rage and turn it into a rage god for kicks.

Rank 3? I think it said somewhere in 1e Werewolf that a Spirit with more power than its current rank allows is for the duration of that effect considered higher rank. Therefore, you can use Bolster Spirit and the +1 Reach.

Can't confirm it because I don't know where I read it, though.

In 2e, you can make a Spirit wholecloth and with Reach can make it a level above 1. It's a 5th dot spell, and it has certain requirements, but if you can make it wholecloth, you should be able to boost an existing Spirit.

Remember, increasing Rank doesn't increase Attributes, it only increases their maximum value. You'd need to do the attributes separately. IIRC it's one success per dot added, and something tells me multiple castings won't stack.

And even then, all you'd be doing is making their numbers bigger. Yes, spirits with high stats can get pretty crazy, but spirit GODS are beyond stats. A mage can't make something with numbers into something without.

Well, normal mages, anyway. Archmages probably can. Entities or Dominions fit some of what you're talking about, and if nothing else, 9 dots gives you Transfiguration, which is literally "do whatever the fuck you want."

Original poster here. I'm asking because I'm working with my ST on making a 2nd Ed version oft the Bene Ashmedai Legacy, and we were figuring it'd be good to be able to raise your Vice's rank as an Attainment. Obviously going above 5 is out of the question, though.

Thanks. Good to know.

I feel like waiting a week or two for the book to come out might answer this question for us.

Logically it would be Practice of Perfecting, but beyond that I can't really say.

Oh, sure, adding to Rank in that case would be fine. But it would be far less useful than you'd think. Again, Rank only affects your maximum, not what they'd actually be rolling.

>Chronicles of "B-but I don't LIKE this new game"!

Does anyone know when exactly Fagness started his shitposting? I don't think it was when Beast hit the fan, I thought he started more recently.

And here I've been posting in the dead thread. Whoops.

So, i've been out of the WoD loop for a while now, and i'm just now trying to get back into it and run a chronicle. I was hoping I could get a few questions answered.

1. The hell is the God Machine Chronicles? I read that it's basically a rules update. IS it any good? Should I learn it?

2. I guess this ties in to the first question a bit, but I recently saw Beast, and became curious. IS it any good? It looks bad ass, but I didn't shell out the cash for it on a whim, most likely because of the first question. Opinions? Is it good? Bad? Meh?

Thanks, for any responses I get. As for the question, I can't remember the last time I got to play WoD, sad I know. Everyone who I game with is on a Pathfinder kick lately, so, it's all hack and slash these days.

nWoD has recently entered a Second Edition starting with The God-Machine Chronicles; Vampire and Werewolf have been updated, while Mage, Promethean, Changeling, and Hunter are on the way. Demon and Beast are already using the new rules. nWoD also recently got rebranded as CofD - the Chronicles of Darkness. The new ruleset makes a lot of changes that are divisive, but are usually liked and easily ignored.

Beast is generally disliked rather severely.

That's going to make figuring out how to make it a useful Attainment complicated, but thanks, good point.
Yeah. I don't think we can really finish this thing before the books out.

You start at Sekhem 10. Once that time window passes, you roll and, if you succeed on the roll, drop to Sekhem 9. Repeat down the chart until you hit 0.

GMC was our introduction to the changes to the settings and rules of second edition, aka the new world of darkness becoming the chronicle of darkness. The GMC itself is like an overall antagonist that explains the general spooky you would see in a mortals game. The God machine is a self preserving magitek nightmare machine that does spooky stuff for reasons no one understands, but mostly to keep up it's own spookiness.

It is worth learning, the rules are generally good, with a few faults (defense is dumb now, for instance).

Beast was not well received, for a variety of reasons I'm sure people will share with you. I wouldn't recommend it.

If you fail? Do you fall faster or what? I haven't looked at mummy.

Really? People hate Beast? I mea, I didn't read through the book myself, the premise just looked cool. Any specifics on it?

I guess I should read the rules update then. Though, no 2e Hunter? Shame, that's one of my favorites. Then again, when it comes to WoD, they're more or less all my favorite, except Changeling. Never really got into that one to be honest. Thanks for the quick reply.

Really, hunter doesn't need much help. The book mortal remains came out when GMC did I think, and it put a band aid on it. It gives you new xp values and some rules updates.

Failing is a good thing; you stay at your current Sekhem until the amount of time in the rightmost column passes, and then you roll again. Even a single success on the roll drops your Sekhem, so rolling at 10 makes it likely that you'll fall, while Sekhem 1 is much less so.

During a Sothic Tiurn (every 1461 years), you stop having to roll at Sekhem 1 and stay there until you decide to return to rest or are killed.

Beast is a game about playing one of humanity's fears made incarnate, which is a neat premise... but the game was shoddy enough to require a massive rewrite halfway through its Kickstarter that hastily left it as a game without much of an identity. It isn't awful, there's just not much to do with it that isn't done better by other CofD games.

Hunter has rough 2e "patch" rules in the back of Mortal Remains, a fun supplement.

The God-Machine Chronicles was a stopgap rules update from before CCP let them do a proper second edition in the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook. There are some rules missing from the CofD core rulebook (explosives rules, sample vices, soul loss rules, etc), so I'd advise getting the free GMC rules update and assume CofD supercedes GMC for anything they both mention.

Demon uses the CofD era rules but before the CofD corebook came out, so there are some slight rules hiccups there.

Beast is uhh... not good. It might make for a good badguy splat for your other games, but as a PC splat it suffers from a nasty one-two combo of "what are we supposed to do if this isn't a crossover game", and "if this IS a crossover game, what is the Beast bringing to the table, and considering how fucking evil Beasts are, why are the other playable PC splats hanging out with this guy?"

Thanks for the replies. I guess i'll have to hunt for Mortal Remains and thumb through that too. Maybe one of these days I can get my group to stop fucking off long enough to play something new. Shame about Beast. Oh well, something better will come along, i'm sure.

What level of Arcana do you need to become a spirit/ghost mage/goetia? I'm assuming it doesn't require Archmastery.

You know what they say about assuming.

Why did they make a goetia mage one of the face characters in 2e if it requires Archmastery then?

Become?

Based on 1e, you need Life 4 and then Spirit 4, Death 4, or Mind 4 respectively.

Based on 2e it'd still be 4 dots (for the "change the fundamental nature of a thing" Practice), but I don't know if you'd still need both Life and Mind/Death/Spirit (you might, in that the thing you're changing it TO and the thing you're changing it FROM are under the purviews of two completely different Arcana).

I'll ask in here before deciding to take it to it's own thread...

Anyone care to help me flesh out my idea for a Bioshock inspired World of Darkness game?

It's primarily going to be mortal/Hunter, but I want to use a lot of ideas from Demon/GMC. An Angel came to a man and showed him how to build a city in some as of yet unspecified Shocky impossible location with a beautiful vista.

The idea is that the city is all 80s/90s cyberpunk inspired instead of the 1940s or 1910 of the Bioshock games. It wasn't my original plan, but the Demon stuff really lends itself to that. I'll probably have the Plasmid/Tonic equivalent be treated as an Endowment, maybe even one that gives the players a few points of an energy stat (because, damnit, I like not using Willpower). Either way, the God-Machine stuff also lends itself to alternate timeline shenanigans.

For how the players get in this city, I could go with either Bioshock's origin: A plane crash, or detectives.

I wonder if a city in space would be a good idea. Just have the lighthouse teleport the party to some city floating in one of the Lagrange points.

Demon Storyteller's Guide has a setting that's the God-Machine's pet cyberpunk city. You may want to read that.

You're using Utopia Now for this, right?

I'm using the idea of Utopia Now, but not the actual compact. I'll take a look at the STG, but I'm really only going for a cyberpunk aesthetic and feel, not the actual cyberpunk Shadowrun style whatever. Probably with a bit of religious Waco style bent, from the God-Machine aspects.

the plasmid stuff is more likely to be slap patches that make you Stigmatic and give you abilities that are basically Form Powers.

>You probably picked up Demon: The Descent because you like espionage in the classic sense. You were looking forward to something along the lines of Smiley’s People or maybe Sapphire and Steel — quiet, small, but deeply meaningful missions conducted in the shadows of the world. Then one player brought in a character sheet describing a Destroyer who could probably punch out an entire continent — the landmass, not the people on it — and the other players quickly followed suit. Your game just took a turn for the Loud.

I'm finally reading the updated Beast stuff. This new teaching angle feels so.. goofy. Such a weak excuse to make Beasts being awful people slightly less awful, but it doesn't work. You don't need to torture people to help them. You're almost always causing them more harm needlessly.

cont: And this repeated hammering in of Heroes as The Real Bad Guys continues to fall flat. Sorry, OPP, but you just cannot make the guys who endanger themselves to kill your sociopath monsters the villains.

So far, I'm disappointed with this updated version. At least some of the powers are cool.

>Who was your last character you made
I made a bunch of characters. Never got to play them though as the games fell through. Still care enough to know what they are?

The teaching angle is meant to be treated as justification that Beasts use. They're not really important or meaningful to the world anymore, which at least gives it a reason to work towards the "build your family" themes.

I also don't really see that Heroes are The Real Bad Guys. They're villains because they don't realize that they're broken, while most Beasts do. They're also killing your sociopath monsters for THE WRONG REASONS. That's the thing about Heroes. They have a Hero complex. The mind control people into loving them.

Heroes are also more morally ambiguous They're not bad guys out of a desire to be bad guys, they're bad guys out of a desire to be good guys, and they can also be good guys now. It's possible that we'll actually see some positive Hero stuff in the STG.

You can also cure Heroes of their assholishness. And it's made a bit more explicit that people like Sleeping Beauty aren't "zomg, kill the rape victim".

>At least some of the powers are cool
Honestly none of the ones I've seen really interest me. But I've always cared more about the templates than the powers.

>The teaching angle is meant to be treated as justification that Beasts use. They're not really important or meaningful to the world anymore, which at least gives it a reason to work towards the "build your family" themes.

The teaching angle is such blatant self-serving deception that including it at all makes me view Beasts even worse.

>I also don't really see that Heroes are The Real Bad Guys. They're villains because they don't realize that they're broken, while most Beasts do. They're also killing your sociopath monsters for THE WRONG REASONS. That's the thing about Heroes. They have a Hero complex. The mind control people into loving them.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, adored, or even obeyed. The motivations of Heroes aren't at fault. It's their actions that matter, and those actions include things like "stopping the horrific monsters that get off to torturing everyone around them".

>Honestly none of the ones I've seen really interest me. But I've always cared more about the templates than the powers.

I like the Anakim stuff, mostly.

Beast would've been cool if it was "oh my god, a a living nightmare has crawled inside my head and will make my life a living hell if I don't feed," except Vampire already did that. But even that retread would've been better than "I've actual been an incarnate nightmare my entire life and it feels GREAT to finally be the real me!" That latter approach just makes Beast a game about being a fucking asshole for no reason and that makes Heroes not all that evil for wanting to stop you from stealing expensive things or eating people or being Batman.

The crossover stuff is there because they wanted it in, and none of the actual game bothers to try and work it into the narrative. It never bothers to justify itself.

It's just all so bad, and could've been a thousand times better in oretty much every regard.

What Beast should have been was an unrepentant monster experience. No justifications, no moral qualms. You're preying on the world because that's what you are, a nightmarish predator, and if the world wants to stop you you'll beat it into submission.

There's nothing wrong with games where you're the villain. Vampire manages it fine.

Latest character is a blind medicine man from a dream speaker colony located in the umbra.

The world was crafted using 10 rivers, 9 to give it a fully facsimile of the matrerial and the 10th serves as a catalyst for seekings).

Each river is actually a distinct color and has a substance associated with it; red fire for life, blue crystal for mind, white light for prime, the pink and-oranges-of-sunset water for spirit (the spirit river is what keeps the whole colony from becoming entirely un-tethered from the material world and so it is most like a normal river), and I will come up with more if the character ever gets dots in more spheres.

Heroes also kill Beasts who aren't sociopaths. They also cause more fear and damage through propogating that fear. Gaston is the Ur Hero. A man who is selfish and vain and tells a lie so that he can be the hero, so that he can vanquish the monster, and so that he can get the girl that doesn't even want him.

Fox News and Donald Trump are Heroes. They get stronger the more you fear the monster under the bridge, even if that monster is Sully.

Beasts are, ultimately, still human in many ways. So they make excuses. Vampire does the same thing. Also, I actually think that other than more "build your own powers" bullshit, the crossover stuff is handled best. It's the one theme that makes sense (you are an outcaste and must build your own family), and the one handled the best. It's just that the rest of Beast gets in the way of that.

People complained about the Beasts who were unrepentant monsters the most. And you can completely play it that way.

>Heroes also kill Beasts who aren't sociopaths.
There are vanishingly few Beasts who aren't sociopaths; the ones who aren't still do more harm than good.

>Gaston is the Ur Hero. A man who is selfish and vain and tells a lie so that he can be the hero, so that he can vanquish the monster, and so that he can get the girl that doesn't even want him.
Gaston is the hero of Beauty and the Beast. Not capital H Hero, normal hero. He is the good guy. The Beast is a monster who threatens Belle's father and then imprisons her and psychologically abuses her until she clings to him.

Gaston's mission to murder the fuck out of Beast is the correct mission.

>They get stronger the more you fear the monster under the bridge, even if that monster is Sully.
But Sully is an abomination. Monsters, Inc., prior to the ending, is a movie showing a society of monsters humanity should rightfully inflict genocide on.

>People complained about the Beasts who were unrepentant monsters the most. And you can completely play it that way.
That's a shame. Those would be the best beasts.

>Mage Noir
Can I finally create the character I always wanted?
How can I make a Gravity mage?

>That latter approach just makes Beast a game about being a fucking asshole for no reason
That would have been the best way to do it tbqh

Look, I get that it's de reguerre to point out how Beauty and the Beast is Stockholm Syndrome, but it's still a sort of silly thing to apply real world logic about psychology to a children's movie. Either way, Gaston is a narcissistic chauvinist who's constantly trying to rape Belle, even after repeatedly being turned down. He's no better than Beast, and in fact worse by the fact that he's a sociopathic murderer while the Beast is a lonely NEET who hasn't seen another human since he was ten and got cursed because he didn't want to let a creepy stranger spend the night in his house.

Not only is Gaston doing something terrible (instilling fear in the populace and leading a lynch mob, which is pretty much never the correct mission), he's doing it for terrible reasons (to fuck a girl who repeatedly said she doesn't want to be fucked, much less by him).

Likewise, Sully is not an abomination, and there's no cause for genocide. Spooking people isn't grounds for murder. The Monsters from Monsters, Inc. aren't even as bad as the tamest Beast. Sully is the best spooker and he's basically just going "BOO".

You don't need Heroes to be shining paragons of justice. That would be the worst possible choice.

That is literally what people hated the most about it.

>Fox News and Donald Trump are Heroes

ignoring the rest of your post to emphasise this truth

So if Mages just fuck with the established reality does the God Machine ever take notice and send out Angel Hit Squads?

>That is literally what people hated the most about it.
Its better then
>B-b-but im secretly a good guy and only meanies hate me!

>Either way, Gaston is a narcissistic chauvinist who's constantly trying to rape Belle, even after repeatedly being turned down.
I don't recall him ever trying to rape her. Marry her, yes.

>He's no better than Beast, and in fact worse by the fact that he's a sociopathic murderer while the Beast is a lonely NEET who hasn't seen another human since he was ten and got cursed because he didn't want to let a creepy stranger spend the night in his house.
This is not an accurate representation of Gaston or Beast. Gaston is a local hero for a reason; douchebags do not get adored and envied by doing absolutely nothing useful or helpful or impressive.

>Likewise, Sully is not an abomination, and there's no cause for genocide. Spooking people isn't grounds for murder. The Monsters from Monsters, Inc. aren't even as bad as the tamest Beast. Sully is the best spooker and he's basically just going "BOO".
Monsters, Inc. portrays a society that has chosen to generate power by breaking into the rooms of children and terrorizing them, not to mention explicitly endangering them through the creation of a two-way portal. While Boo was fine in the movie, it is in no way, shape, or form difficult to imagine a more likely scenario where she wanders out and dies to any number of mundane threats. Like a car.

Any society that views your children as acceptable targets for torment is a society you should wipe out. Monsters, Inc. is a grotesque world that goes unacknowledged in its sin due to being bright and shiny and comedic.

>You don't need Heroes to be shining paragons of justice. That would be the worst possible choice.
They don't need to be shining paragons of justice. Heroes can be douchebags. But the choice to annihilate Beasts is always, without exception, the righteous choice, and as such their actions are more likely to be justified and forgiven.

It's less
>B-b-but im secretly a good guy and only meanies hate me!
and more
>At least I'm trying to justify my existence.
Which is a bit more nuanced then either of your descriptions and, you know, fits CofD.

Still not very good but you don't need to make it out to be worse than it actually is.

>Fox News and Donald Trump are Heroes. They get stronger the more you fear the monster under the bridge, even if that monster is Sully.
But the monster isn't Sully in your example. The monster is Scar and his army of hyenas.

>Scaring children means you have to be genocieded
calm down there buddy, it might be shitty but even ignoring the monsters' perspective genocide is a tad extreme

Pedophiles scare children too.

If you were a parent that heard your daughter scream and you threw open the door and saw a grotesque abomination thats almost impossible to comprehend you would want to shove a nuke through that portal too.

But Beasts don't think they're the good guys.
Do you mean in the context of the game, or are you saying the traditional use of the term? I've been hesitant to say "are Heroes" because I'm worried someone will try to take that out of context.

But basically, yeah. I mean, that's why GamerGate was used as an example. And if I understand how the writing process works, by two separate authors. It was a movement about insecurity and fear dressed up in a wrapping of "b-b-but it's about ethics in games journalism!" And it's all about getting people on your side to attack a boogeyman.
This video essay series is good Hero inspiration. Yes, it's about GamerGate, and yes, it starts with an explanation of Anita Sarkeesian. Don't make me regret linking it.
youtu.be/6y8XgGhXkTQ?list=PLJA_jUddXvY62dhVThbeegLPpvQlR4CjF

What do you think marrying someone who doesn't want to marry you entails?
Gaston is clearly an asshole, he's just the asshole who gets the most done. If you've ever been to high school, you know damned well that you can be popular and still be a douchebag. It also is a pretty accurate representation of the two of them. Gaston literally wants to murder someone for glory to get the girl who doesn't want him. Beast is literally a 20 year old who wants to be left alone who was cursed when he was 10 for not letting a creepy old woman stay with him.

Boo was also the first time that ever happened, and scaring people is not really grounds for genocide.

>But the choice to annihilate Beasts is always, without exception, the righteous choice, and as such their actions are more likely to be justified and forgiven.
No it isn't. You're not one of those "Hunters are always right, supernaturals all deserve to die" people,. are you?

Not really. Not every Beast is some horrible douchebag who murders wantonly. Many of them can and do indulge their Hunger against people who "deserve" it. MCU's Daredevil is a Beast.

That is literally the kind of argument that gets made for killing transpeople and wanting to bomb the middle east.

Fox News: Best example of Heroes. No wonder minority groups are Beasts; Conservatives are always the ones fearmongering about the Other.

As far as I know trans people dont come into childrens bedrooms at night and scar them for life.
And I never said anything about the middle east but I wont be sad if they managed to kill everyone involved with ISIS if thats what you mean.

>Conservatives are always the ones fearmongering about the Other.
>Implying I am conservative.
The only right wing politics I like is their gun laws and stop injecting politics into this

>calm down there buddy, it might be shitty but even ignoring the monsters' perspective genocide is a tad extreme
No, genocide is perfectly correct. There is a society of inhuman monsters that terrorize your children by breaking into your home (itself legal grounds for killing in many places) to power their lightbulbs.

These giant, monstrous things have such an uncaring attitude toward your race they break into your homes to torture your children.

If Monsters, Inc. weren't a comedy, it would rightfully end with us bombing the hell out of them.

>What do you think marrying someone who doesn't want to marry you entails?
There is no indication Gaston intends to physically force himself upon Belle. Given his narcissism, it is more likely he believes she'll give in if he's dogged enough.

>Gaston is clearly an asshole, he's just the asshole who gets the most done. If you've ever been to high school, you know damned well that you can be popular and still be a douchebag. It also is a pretty accurate representation of the two of them. Gaston literally wants to murder someone for glory to get the girl who doesn't want him. Beast is literally a 20 year old who wants to be left alone who was cursed when he was 10 for not letting a creepy old woman stay with him.
Beast threatens Belle's father and abuses her more than Gaston ever did. Gaston wants to murder a horrible monster that deserves murder.

>Boo was also the first time that ever happened, and scaring people is not really grounds for genocide.
What they're doing is. See above.

>No it isn't. You're not one of those "Hunters are always right, supernaturals all deserve to die" people,. are you?
All supernaturals? No. All Beasts, absolutely. Werewolves and Mages are largely OK, as are Changelings. Most Vampires should be wiped out. Others are on a more case by case basis.

Fox News is actually a Beast, as it spreads fear and terror to the masses and feeds off it to grow in strength

>"b-b-but it's about ethics in games journalism!" And it's all about getting people on your side to attack a boogeyman.
No, it started that way, but became about crushing the encroachment of an unwelcome extremist political ideology of forced equity slithered its way in under the guise of "feminism" and "equality".
Your points in excusing the torment of children are as vacuous as your false-moral politics.

>Being this wrong about Gamer Gate
Ok I am just ignoring you from now on

Get out of here, /pol/.

You're arguing that people's snap judgment to commit genocide should be respected.

Whether they're inhuman monsters or not is not grounds for genocide. Also, I'm pretty sure that at one point Belle actually pushes Gaston away. She also tells him no repeatedly. If it weren't a family movie, he'd have forced himself on her. You can't use the "if not for the rating" excuse one place and then ignore it the other.

>Beast threatens Belle's father and abuses her more than Gaston ever did. Gaston wants to murder a horrible monster that deserves murder.
Gaston is honestly the worse person of the two. Beast does nothing to deserve murder. Doesn't Belle's dad literally give her up, anyway?

>No. All Beasts, absolutely.
Scaring people is not grounds for murder.
Also, Fox News are Heroes. They are literally the kind of behavior that's used to describe Heroes. They want you to get worked up and afraid and trust them and believe they're the voice of reason.

Equity shouldn't be forced in the first place, and equality is not some extremist political ideology. Buying into the notion that women are trying to come take over your men spaces is like buying into the notion that blacks and Muslims are going to rape your women.

>Literally the opposite opinions of /pol/

>Equity shouldn't be forced in the first place, and equality is not some extremist political ideology. Buying into the notion that women are trying to come take over your men spaces is like buying into the notion that blacks and Muslims are going to rape your women.
Can we seriously not turn into /pol/ and just drop this
>You're arguing that people's snap judgment to commit genocide should be respected.
I am arguing that a society that revolves around scaring and mentally disturbing children deserves to be destroyed.

>>Literally the opposite opinions of /pol/
>>>>constantly injecting politics into a discussion that has fuck-all to do with politics
Kill yourself.

That this counts as "Politics" is pretty fucked up, but considering it's an example literally from the book, I'd say that it's pretty related. You just don't agree with the book's political leanings.

>Whether they're inhuman monsters or not is not grounds for genocide. Also, I'm pretty sure that at one point Belle actually pushes Gaston away. She also tells him no repeatedly. If it weren't a family movie, he'd have forced himself on her. You can't use the "if not for the rating" excuse one place and then ignore it the other.
I am not using that excuse selectively. I agreed Boo was not harmed. I said she was endangered, and that is true by virtue of being exposed to harm.

A species that breaks into your private property to torture your children is a species that deserves genocide.

Gaston never attempts to rape Belle.

>Gaston is honestly the worse person of the two. Beast does nothing to deserve murder. Doesn't Belle's dad literally give her up, anyway?
There is no sane view that declares Gaston worse. You have to be actively delusional or just really hate non-furs.

>Scaring people is not grounds for murder.
Torturing people to teach them a lesson, or to get kicks, is grounds for murder, especially when your torture can also be so horrific as to leave them shellshocked and traumatized for ages, if your Horror feeds on them repeatedly.

Beasts have no redeeming qualities. The best of them strive to hurt less, rather than not at all.

>Also, Fox News are Heroes. They are literally the kind of behavior that's used to describe Heroes. They want you to get worked up and afraid and trust them and believe they're the voice of reason.
Fox are Beasts. They feed off inflicting terror, think themselves good, and many, I suspect, bet they're doing a service by teaching people the truth of the world.

>You just don't agree with the book's political leanings.
A good gamebook should keep the politics of the author completely out of it.
I mean I love guns (tfw I live in Ausfalia) but I wouldnt want the firearms chart to start complaining about strict gun laws.

>That this counts as "Politics" is pretty fucked up
You're literally presenting your personal opinion of a HEAVILY debated topic that is politically charged as irrefutable fact on Veeky Forums.
This is against the rules, you dipshit. /pol/ is banned because it starts shitstorms. Not because of the political opinion itself.
>it's an example literally from the book
Then the creators are dipshits as well who pander specifically to people like you. It's a poor business decision, and it was a poor business decision when Eclipse Phase did it.
That doesn't give you license to bitch about your political enemies on this board. Now drop it.

>Fox are Beasts. They feed off inflicting terror, think themselves good, and many, I suspect, bet they're doing a service by teaching people the truth of the world.
You're just as bad as that other faggot. Stop.

>You're just as bad as that other faggot. Stop.
Blow me, cunt.

Kill yourself, shithead. This is not the board for presenting your leftist ideology as the "default" opinion for the world.
If you want to do that, there's another board just for you.

Beasts don't think themselves good. Again, they are LITERALLY THE KIND OF PEOPLE DESCRIBED AS HEROES. And yes, the things that Gaston wants to do could very easily be described as rape. In no world is a lynching the reasonable reaction to... anything, really. But even worse when you're doing it to get with a girl who doesn't want you.
Gaston is clearly shown to be a chauvanistic asshole. The narrative reinforces the fact that he's the bad guy. Literally the 'correct' way to view the movie is that Gaston is worse than the Beast. Even if you do consider the Beast a terrible person who psychologically abused Belle (which is honestly a stretch) and not a lonely teenager, Gaston still wanted to unlawfully murder him without a fair trail.

No it shouldn't. A game should have whatever politics its author wants. Several games do. Everything is political to begin with. Politics are baked into the mechanics of many games. The go to example is Civilization, which defines that Civilizations are good, and anyone not part of them is the "barbarian" rabble, and also makes judgements on what a "good" Civilization has.

>Poor business decision
It made $116,383 before it was even released. And that was a version people disliked.

But that doesn't even matter, because the point is that is what Heroes are: They're people who want praise and attention and feel that if they murder the monster they'll get it, whether the monster really deserves it or not.

>Literally the opposite opinions of /pol/
/pol/ is a board for the discussion of politics. This board is not for the discussion of politics.

Reality has a well known liberal bias, and that's true in the World of Darkness as well. That's not people in the thread saying that, it's the authors saying it. The author's ideology IS the "default" opinion for the game.

Then quit fucking discussing politics when I'm trying to talk about a fucking game and you're bitching that something that has nothing to do with the commonly accepted sphere of political discourse is politics.

>In no world is a lynching the reasonable reaction to... anything, really.
In a small town with no law enforcement, and indeed in any small farming community without an established governing body, lynching was in-fact the ONLY response to injustice or crime.

>Kill yourself, shithead. This is not the board for presenting your leftist ideology as the "default" opinion for the world.
I am not a leftist. Keep your retarded assumptions silent. Retards are meant to be seen, not heard.

>Beasts don't think themselves good.
Sure they do.
>And yes, the things that Gaston wants to do could very easily be described as rape. In no world is a lynching the reasonable reaction to... anything, really. But even worse when you're doing it to get with a girl who doesn't want you.
Lynching is a reasonable reaction to many things, such as kidnapping a woman and abusing her after threatening her father.

>Gaston is clearly shown to be a chauvanistic asshole. The narrative reinforces the fact that he's the bad guy. Literally the 'correct' way to view the movie is that Gaston is worse than the Beast. Even if you do consider the Beast a terrible person who psychologically abused Belle (which is honestly a stretch) and not a lonely teenager, Gaston still wanted to unlawfully murder him without a fair trail.
The law does not cover inhuman monsters set apart from society; the law is for people and the dumb animals we generously deign to protect. If the movie calls Gaston the bad guy, the movie is wrong.

It is wrong, by the way. Many Disney movies are wrong. BatB is wrong in that it romanticizes abuse.

>Reality has a well known liberal bias
Now you're just flouting the board's rules. Good job.
>and that's true in the World of Darkness as well. That's not people in the thread saying that, it's the authors saying it. The author's ideology IS the "default" opinion for the game.
If WoD as a setting is inherently leftist by intention, then maybe all lore threads concerning it should be directed towards Veeky Forums's politics board.