Warhammer 40k General

>less initiative than imperial guards

Well, if it isn't a new thing for Orks. Appropriately painted painted yellow for the lemon it is going to be. A flying Gorkanaut with no clear roll and not being good at anything.

I've a game against a Nurgle "The Purge" army.

Which list looks like it'd fair better?

Combined Arms Detachment (Primary)

HQ [ 2 ]

Big Mek (104 pt); Da Finkin' Kap; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Kustom Force Field;
Painboy (50 pt); 'Urty Syringe; Dok's Tools;

Troops [ 3 ]

29x - Boyz (330 pt.); 'Eavy Armor for Mob;
> 1x - Boss Nob; Bosspole; Power Klaw; Shoota;
> 28x - Boy; Slugga; Choppa;

12x Boyz (162pt.)
> 1x - Boss Nob; Bosspole; Power Klaw; Shoota;
> 10x - Boy; Shoota;
> 1x - Boy; Big Shoota;
> 1x - Trukk; Big Shoota; Reinforced Ram

11x - Gretchin (35pt.)
> 1x - Runtherd; Grabba Stikk; Slugga;
> 10x - Gretchin; Grot Blasta;

Fast Attack [ 1 ]

1x - Deffkopta (30pt.); Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha;

Heavy Support [ 3 ]

11x - Lootas (154pt.)

1x - Looted Wagon (67pt.); Killkannon;

2x Mek Gunz (66pt.)
> 2x - Smasha Gun;
> 2x - Extra Gretchin;

--OR--

Combined Arms Detachment (Primary)

HQ [ 2 ]

Big Mek (104pt.); Da Finkin' Kap; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Kustom Force Field;
Painboy (55pt.); 'Urty Syringe; Dok's Tools; Bosspole;

Troops [ 2 ]

20x - Boyz (120 pt.)
> 20x - Boy; Slugga; Choppa;

20x - Boyz (120 pt.)
> 20x - Boy; Slugga; Choppa;

Fast Attack [ 1 ]

1x - Deffkopta (30pt.); Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha;

Heavy Support [ 1 ]

2x Mek Gunz (75pt.)
> 2x - Smasha Gun;
> 4x - Extra Gretchin
> 1x - Ammo Runt

---

Dread Mob - Combined Arms Detachment (Auxillery)

HQ [ 1 ]

Pain Boss (85pt.); 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Power Klaw;

Troops [ 2 ]

12x Spanna Boyz (139pt.)
> 11x - Spanna Boy; Shoota; Stikkbombz;
> 1x - Mek; Big Shoota;
> 1x - Scrap Trukk; Big Shoota; Reinforced Ram; Armour Plates; Grabbin' Klaw;

11x - Gretchin Scavengers (50pt.)
> 1x - Runtherd; Grabba Stikk; Slugga; Squig Hound;
> 10x - Grot Scavs; Grot Blasta; Firebombz;

11x - Lootas (221pt.)
> 1x - Looted Wagon; Killkannon

Jesus fuck user, condense your shit.

I2 works fine for the 'crons

Just following the example for "good list" etiquette.

'crons can handle damage.

crons also get a global 5+ save in addition to actual arrmour

If all boyz got their 'eavy armour for free theyd be quite good

>Higher weapon skill
>Grots shoot as well as highly trained humans.

If the KFF doles out the invuln to everything within 6" of it on the ground it might see purpose there. Tellyport blastas have good stats as well, just fucking pointless range and use on mega armoured meks. If this thing has a large tellyport blast it could be cool.

I realize now you have like 3 lists in there and that's why it looks so fucking big.

and crons don't use warriors to assault.

But the plane moves faster than anything on the ground.

Hey guys, I posted a while back about finding some old (3/4E I think) Eldar models that I painted when I was a teenager. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with them, but based on the models I have I think it'd be best to strip, repaint, and run them as Alaitoc or Ulthwé. I want to make a fluffy list, spend the least possible, and actually get games (in roughly that order).

So my questions are:
1. Is it too much to take 2 Farseers at 1000 pts?
2. Would you play against a 1000 pt CAD consisting of roughly the following?

>2 Farseers
>2 units of 10 Guardian Defenders, each with a Warlock and Scatter platform
>1 unit of 9 Storm Guardians with flamers and a Warlock, in a Wave Serpent
>Squadron of 2 Vypers with shuriken cannons
>Fire Prism

Thanks m8s

The reason for the rules isn't even that good.
>"Yeah I want shooty units take Khorne's icon, so let's allow units with it overwatch with full BS".

I'll give you examples from my DE I can think of

1) Random charge range - Used to be guaranteed 6" assault
2) Fleet nerf - Used to be you run and then assault which meant charge range went from 6+1d6 minimum 7"
3) Charging through cover reduces charge range by 2" minimum charge range is now 2d6" -2 or 0".
4) Nerf to power weapons - Used to be power weapon = ignores armor which was great for DE as we had poison power weapons (at 25 pts)
5) Unusual force weapons - any power weapon that wasn't an Imperial weapon that got special treatment is now AP3 meaning DE lost nearly all army wide AP2 melee
6) Demon USR nerf - Used to give 4++ and eternal warrior (khymeras are deamons)
7) Overwatch allows shooty units to shoot into melee on top of the fact it is impossible to reach melee without suffering a minimum of 1 turn of being shot, 2 if they deploy smartly
8) Flamers in overwatch getting d3 auto hits which on DE is d3 dead models
9) Overwatch doesn't count as part of the melee phase when it comes to my invulnerable saves that only work in melee
10) Open topped vehicles went from Explodes! at str 3 to str4, open topped now gives +1 to on vehicle damage (more likely to explode), and when you use a flamer on an open topped vehicle is hits d6 passengers (which is d6 dead DE no saves)
11) Hydra guantlets went from d6 bonus attacks to re-roll to wounds (which on a 1A model base is pointless)
12) Haywire grenades used to be unit wide can only be used by a sergeant now.
13) In order to buy a melee weapon I first need to be a sergeant meaning all melee weapons have a 10pt tax, meanwhile all my ranged weapons I don't have to do that.
14) Phantasm Grenade Launchers used to give unit wide assault + defensive grenades and instead now give an attack that is ignored by ATSKNF / fearless.
15) Fearless were buffed it used to be that if they were suffered a sweeping advanced they would lose 1d3 models
16) Challenges easily allow people to kill / ignore special weapon users

Given how generally weak that army is 2 Farseers is fine.

I wish tyranids were good. Tired of spamming flyrants to have a chance.

>GW adding more convoluted and chunky rules for flyers

Not leaked yet. 2 Kustom Mega Kannons or Tellyporta Mega Blastas, unknown because WD & GW can't keep their shit straight (TL Big Shootas & Rokkits on the Super-heavy Gorkanaut! :D ). That, or they're actually different gun options.

The Smasha Gun they talk about as being a Lifta-Droppa, what with its ability to flip over tanks.

Boy howdy, can't fukken wait for the ultra-useful, well-conceived, carefully designed 3 Blastajet formation that gives them +1" movement if they snap-shoot or what the fuck ever.

>What makes 7th the shooting edition?
It's a lot easier and less of a fuss all you need is to have a target and be within range, some shooting doesn't even need LoS and it keeps getting more powerful disproportionately to CC, the new dual-dakka knight being a fine example.

In short it is the easier, more reliable and more powerful way to play, which leads to popularity and specialization.

They often do it. In a Decurion they are relentless, so they can shoot and charge. And disembarking from a Ghost Ark, unloading gauss and then charging is a good way to do lot of damage to light unit or vehicles with AV10 rear.

With the way I use flyers that won't really be an issue, I have them turn up, shoot, jink against anything then jump off again in the next turn. While they're sitting there ready to disappear again they can give out the invuln.

That's an impressive amount of mad. 'Course, when mechanicum become available for the Imperium in 40k (it's going to happen, GW loves money too much not to) they'll be fine and balanced, won't they?

oh hey, look, it's this shitpost again

Who needs ObSec anyways?

Ork Horde Detachment (Primary)

HQ [ 3 ]

Big Mek (104pt.); Da Finkin' Kap; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Kustom Force Field;
Painboy (55pt.); 'Urty Syringe; Dok's Tools; Bosspole;
Painboy (55pt.); 'Urty Syringe; Dok's Tools; Bosspole;

Troops [ 4 ]

20x - Boyz (120 pt.)
> 20x - Boy; Slugga; Choppa;

20x - Boyz (120 pt.)
> 20x - Boy; Slugga; Choppa;

12x Boyz (162pt.)
> 1x - Boss Nob; Bosspole; Power Klaw; Shoota;
> 10x - Boy; Shoota;
> 1x - Boy; Big Shoota;
> 1x - Trukk; Big Shoota; Reinforced Ram

11x - Gretchin (35pt.)
> 1x - Runtherd; Grabba Stikk; Slugga;
> 10x - Gretchin; Grot Blasta;

Fast Attack [ 1 ]

2x - Deffkopta (30pt.); Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha;

Heavy Support [ 3 ]

11x - Lootas (154pt.)

1x - Looted Wagon (67pt.); Killkannon;

2x Mek Gunz (75pt.)
> 2x - Smasha Gun;
> 4x - Extra Gretchin
> 2x - Ammo Runt

Don't worry user! There are new rules for fliers coming! Are you ready for the flyrant's long-awaited nerfing?

In my opinion the marks should really have an effect related to the unit that take it.
If I'm making a Slaanesh themed army but I want to use obliterators giving them the mark is only a tax, since they would attack in cc at initiative 1 anyway.
Instead they should gain a bonus that reflect another aspect of Slaanesh, like for example hir desire of mastery by giving them the master-crafted rule for their weapons

Little list for league play, I would have liked a hammerhead but the AV is too high to field. Hows this for an all comers list? Alternative units I could have that I can use are a broadside and a crisis commander. I wouldn't mind picking up something else though if it would help.

500pts Tau Empire CAD

HQ
Ethereal

Troops
Five man strike team with support turret.
Five man strike team

Elites
Three man crisis suit team with x2 missile pods, bonding knife ritual
Three man crisis suit team with burst cannons and flamers, bonding knife ritual. One upgraded to Sas'vre with neuroweb system jammer.

Fast Attack
Five man pathfinder team with one upgraded to Sas'ui.

They won't be coming back, they only bring back cathaphractii and HH dreadnoughts because they make plastic HH.

Love the Decurion. Completely justifiably cheesy.

Plz god no, I'm already having images of cruddace rubbing his hands in glee.

that isn't a bad idea.
Making Khornes bonus to shooty units be Slit Fire and good overwatch is. Because those bonuses are tied to ideas of calm, discipline, focus, etc.

Yeah that's okay and all, but have you considered dropping everything but the HQ and troops to pick up a KX139 Ta'unar supremacy armour?

I want to print out a copy of the rules/dataslate/etc to have with me so it's not just a picture on the phone. The only clear picture I've seen of the book is the one from Atia's site that has the cat in it.

>What are Imperial Armour books

fuck
they'dd better not ruin my vendetta

>Gaping Carnifex
Sweeeet

>inb4 FMC will be able to assault fliers

>Khorne Berserkers are a melee unit
>1 A

I hope heldrakes get a thing about being able to grab onto flyers and rip them up/drag them to the ground like they do in the fluff.

No, can't say I have and don't think I will.

>The heldrake won't be able to assault fliers, despite previously having vector strike
>The "MC vs walker" debate moves into the next dimension. Literally.

A waste of money since no one will play against overpowered non GW stuff :^)

Any news on the Angels of Death upload? Heard last night there was a torrent. Any progress?

some ideas for how to do it better
>Nurgle
Possibly the hardest because +1T is good on everything, and most units would take that over a shooty option.
Still Slow and Purposeful and shrouded, ie the daemon rules, would be good on shooty things.
>khorne
Gain Pinning, or at least no overwatch. help out the shooting bodies.
Though Slaanesh having Pinning is an intersting idea too.
Khorne good also give rerolls of 1s to wound. Because Carnage.

Tzeetch
actual good warpflame. and/or a unit hit perils on any doubles. and maybe also can perils from deny the witch on double ones.

That's what I was hoping to hear, thanks for the response. I know Vypers, Warlocks and Storm Guardians are generally supposed to be shit compared to most of the codex, but I'm okay with losing and they fit the fluff I have in mind (basically a regular Ulthwé Strike Force/Black Guardian rapid response unit similar to the 3E Craftworlds Codex fluff).

You realize AdMech is hated by non-Mechfags in 30k right. Your logic is literally "CSM should have everything loyalists do as well as Chaos unique stuff and marks so they're just better in every way possible." Wanting to port AdMech and then just straight buff them with mark options is like saying you should get Eldar codex and then toss in Corsair bonuses because why not, it's fluffy right?

That's a Tervigon conversion of a Dimachaeron

here you go user, hopemy shitty scanner's quality is good enough

That's just a Dimachaeron. No conversion I can see.

Fantastic! In your debt, user.

Fun story, I ran a dima in my game this weekend.

It assaulted in a mixed combat with a khorne daemon prince and got IDd immediately.

Good times

This was my third game yesterday, so I am still really new.
Do Salamanders have a special type of flamethrower?
Recently went against a Space Marine player using a Salamandar Successor Chapter and his squad shot all of its bolters at a Venom and then "shot" his template but my Venom was 13" away so my understanding is that it shouldn't be able to shoot it at all. There was a unit of Kalabites in between the venom and the Salamander unit that did get hit by the flamer. (just the end of it though so it was only hitting 3) and I lost two of them.

Looking through my rulebook he has to shoot all weapons from that unit (these were tactical marines so I don't think they can split their fire) at the same unit. Is this a trick with flamers in that he can shoot "towards" the unit but hit another one?

Is this a template thing?

Nice! I am a different user, but thank you also.
Any chance you have the rules for the IK:Renegade game?

What if Cypher was Alpharius the entire time?

I think he cheated.

If there had been part of the nominated unit definitely in range then this would be a no-brainer 'yes you can hit models from a different unit with a template firing at another'.

As is... it feels like an edge case that you should discuss with your opponent.

Templates must hit the unit all your models are shooting at, but they can also cover enemy models inbetween.

Still, if the template can't manage to touch the venom no, it can't be shot.

i'dd happily scan that for you tomorrow since it's getting quite late

What if the the emperor on the golden throne was really alpharius covering for the real emperor who is alive and well?

ah fuck it i'll do it right now

They got a flamer with torrent (providing the model stood still) as a relic in the recent Angels of Death book. Unusually, this relic can be taken by a normal squad marine rather than characters. Pic related.

As to the rest, my interpretation is: with templates you have to maximise hits on the target unit, but given there's only one model in the venom's "unit", providing he's covering that he can put the rest of the template wherever he likes.

Template weapons are specifically required to cover as much of the target vehicle as possible

It seemed really strong but he seemed more expereinced and it made enough sense. I just wanted to check if I missed something with flamer rules but then my rulebook basically said what said.

Yeah the Venom was like two templates away from the Tacticals but the Kalabites were directly in front so he was able to shoot the flamer straight forward.

Oh well, maybe its from an older edition? Either way I will let him know.

Thanks all.

>May only be taken by a MODEL that may take items from the special weapons list.
So in other words you can take a special weapon flamer and the nocturne's fury on a tactical squad?

>Did he cover the venom?
>Yes? It's hit
>no? It doesn't make shit to it
If the template can't reach the unit he can't do shit against it, he had to choose the second unit as the target not your venom

TL, DR. Yes he cheated.

Sure makes more sense than Dark Angels being traitors.

Why aren't eversor assassins employed against the xenos more?

No because it's still in the relics list. It means guys like chaplains can't take it as they don't have access to special weapons.

I don't think so. It seems to me like you could take it instead of the Flamer, basically counting it as a Special Weapon option.

That's more my reading of RAI though, rather than strict RAW.

It'd probably be better to get it in a veteran squad or something more survivable regardless.

>cheating in plastic army men fights
>against DE
>with SM

Man, I hate when people abuse new players lack of knowledge like that.

But none of the generic HQs with Relics get Special weapons. They all get Ranged weapons.

Aren't all of the assassins few in number, especially compared to other imperium forces, that they are only really used when absolutely needed?
They can't afford to just drop one in to each Xenos world and have him/her/it play Rambo for a bit. No matter how many times I tell Black Library to.

Because there's a limit to how many can be deployed. Too many Eversors got sent out once.

For those of us which forgot the even (more so forgot it was Eversors that did it):

>Too many Eversors got sent out once.

"In 546.M32, the Grand Master of Assassins Drakan Vangorich began a period of anarchy when he assassinated all the members of the High Lords of Terra during the events of The Beheading whereupon he fled into hiding at an Assassinorum temple. This drew the wrath of the Adeptus Astartes who sent a retribution force consisting of the Halo Brethren, Imperial Fists and Sable Swords. Upon landing, the strike force's commander was assassinated, and the Space Marines fought a battle against a hundred assembled Eversor assassins. They eliminated all the Astartes except for a single warrior, who managed to break into the traitor's hideout and terminate Vangorich in the name of the Emperor"

here you go
second page was unclear so i scanned it again and it's at the end because i can't into pdf and mediafire because to big
mediafire.com/download/js22o65ddluxb96/rules.pdf

you can do this trick against monsterous/gargant creatures though. Because it specifically says vehicles. So you can just touch the wraithknight/dreadnight/riptide/stormsurge and cover other models as well.

What's the general opinion on forge world units? Are they usually barred from your local gaming groups/tourneys/whatever or allowed? I'm itching to use some rapiers for my CSM but I'm not going to bother if I only get a handful of games out of them

Well they are, but usually it's not heard of as neither the Eversor or their target usually survive the assassination.

Was that the time during M32 when the Lord of Assassins deployed 100 Eversors against a Space Marine led task force sent to end his madness?

Imperial Fists must really have the most stable and easy to be accepted geneseed to be able to create enough Astartes to replace all the ones that die

>quotes their base attack
>ignores all their modifiers that make them like 5-6 attacks on average

Even at a bare minimum, they have like 2-3 attacks.

They're allowed in my group, and my FLGS doesn't seem to have much prejudice against them.

It's also usually easier to stomach if people only bring a handful of units, and if they make sure to bring the rules with them.

Your best option is to ask the people you play with their thoughts on Forgeworld.

>Who needs ObSec anyways?
People who can't realiably kill the enemy.

4 attacks on the charge, at best.

The get 2 weapons, which puts them at 2, and then another 2 from rage.

It's not bad, but it's not outstanding, especially since you can get the exact same number of attacks from standard CSM for less.

Yeah, the page before says they can, there's a specific sentence to enable it (sorry, should have posted both).

>What's the general opinion on forge world units?

The General Opinion is that it depends entirely on your playgroup.

Some FW stuff is super cheesy (just like some GW stuff) other things (a good 70-80%) is just fine and usually I find them more fluffy. They make some really decent models, though they are more expensive and fragile.

The only problem I had with FW recently was my opponent bringing some 30k point scoring unit by itself in a 40k game, but idk 30k enough to know if it was unbalanced. Apparently he isn't supposed to play it in 40k* from what I was told. /rant

people playing malestorm games. or any game where objectives give VP before game end.

I get why they did it, but it's kind of a shame you still lose a maelstrom mission if you get tabled.

There aren't any exact numbers but there are probably enough to cover the demands and more, let's remember that eversor have a self destruct function to accomplish their objective, the most difficult assassin to make would be the pariahs for their unusual condition.