/srg/ Shadowrun General- Afro Tradition Edition

>I like my runs like I like my elves: smooth, cultured and classy/fast and razor-sharp/covered in burning gasoline.

>I like my runs like I like my HBO: Full of big characters and happy endings/full of big characters and tragic endings/run by the Cryptkeeper.

I like my runs like I like my coffee: Sweet as sin and dark as midnight/cheaply bought and thrown away once I'm done/hot and inevitably spilled on my dick.

>For the rest, two questions: do you already have a group (in sight) and are you going to be a player or the GM?
No and either.

>Well, thank you, new guy, for throwing more fuel on the pyre of srg's holy war.
Sorry!

>4ed is more polished of the two, but it it's matrix rules are labyrinthine and some roles underperform a lot.
>5ed is more streamlined, but is a clusterfuck requiring GM to write his own splat worth of house rules or just ballpark stuff on the fly. Also some classes over perform radically and matrix rules, while far easier to utilise lost most of their logical coherence in favour of "matrix is magic and fuck your questions about basic operations of it".
Okay, so far it sounds like I'd like 4e better; complexity isn't an issue for me as long as they're logically organized (I play ASL).

5e has some trouble with rules, especially as far as universal terms are concerned. Splats are sometimes poorly organized, but the core is pretty solid (though it still has things like sensors).

I don't think there's anything to clash with immersion in 5e. I bet it's just metaplot developments that a fan of the old editions disagrees with.

I remember someone said that cyberware doesn't offer benefits as great as it did in 4e, so there's less reason to go with a chromed adept. Can't think of any other instances of being locked into archetypes.

Let's be honest both 4e and 5e are adept edition.

5e has the advantage of not making the decker concept completely redundant because a decker in a box is just as good.

Plus Prioritygen > BPgen

>5e has the advantage of not making the decker concept completely redundant because a decker in a box is just as good.
Okay, I've heard the terms before, but don't understand the context.

What's the difference between a Decker and a Hacker other than the names of the equipment they use?

A hacker refers to anyone/anything doing funny things on/with/to the matrix. A Decker is a "sub-type" of hacker that uses a deck (or pirated comlink/other device) to do so.

Hacker is a broader term, more about the skill set - they can hack stuff, and in 4e it was fairly easy for anyone with a good commlink and agent to do this.

A Decker is a dedicated computer/electronic warfare expert, a strong archetype. Hacking is not just an ancillary thing, it's What They Do, and they do it well. 5e made it harder for anyone to just drop in and do the hacking work, bringing back the classic archetype of 'computer guy on the team'.

>cyberware doesn't offer benefits
As far as I remember it's because they are far more pricey than in 4e due to "lol metaplot"

Reposting because Archive:
I am preparing a Shadowrun game for my group, and I want to give them a small questionnaire before hand. I want it to be on the lighter side, so I am trying to get a few funny 'I like my Runs like I like my X...'
The ones I have already are:
'I like my Runs like my Steaks: Done short and Bloody / Black on the outside but Pink to the core '
' ... like my Sex: Anonymous and without adequate Protection / Blindly led by the Johnson / Quietly and with minimal meta-human interaction'
Any other fun ideas?

Good ones

It's more pricey, but then you also get double the money you were getting in 4e at chargen as well.

If you don't have a group, 5e is probably your best bet if you want to find one.
Virtually every game I've seen online has been 5e, and 95% of discussion here pertains to 5e.

Part of the problem is that cyberlimbs basically suck outside of 2 concepts (cyberarm of awesome and bulletproof troll).

Other than that there is still very much a role for wired reflexes but most adepts just go with muscle toner 2 and then just use power points to buy improved reflexes since improved physical attributes is way too expensive for what it does.

>so there's less reason to go with a chromed adept

Chrome, yes, but bioware is eminently doable (and 90% of the adept advice on /srg/ is 'sacrifice 1 point of Essence for some init boosters and other biostuff). 5e has some hang-ups with 'ware if you're cheap, but there's a pretty good variety of pieces out there with Chrome Flesh, bio and chrome both get play.

>bulletproof troll
Go on...

How much Nuyen should be offered by a Mr. Johnson for a 4 player crew to do a kidnapping?

I mean any issues people have with 5e are honestly mirrored in 4e by something equal-- 5e has wireless bonuses but 4e has tard hackers. Overall 5e does learn a lot of lessons from the shit that 4e got wrong but it's kind of a judgement call. I tend to run 5e if I'm playing the newer editions but I change up the system a lot and some things are kind of cobbled together from multiple editions.

I personally think that 2e is the best of them, but it's not an easy introduction to the setting anymore.

>No and either.
Reason he asked is simple - looking for 5ed group is far easier than 4ed. Also GMing shadowrun if you haven't played it only works if your players haven't played much of it either.
>Okay, so far it sounds like I'd like 4e better; complexity isn't an issue for me as long as they're logically organized (I play ASL).
Well with all that I said in that post in mind, my personal preference is playing 5e with 4Aed corebook on hand for any rules confusion or conflict, because most 5e rules problems are caused by them being a shoddy copypasta of 4ed.
>What's the difference between a Decker and a Hacker other than the names of the equipment they use?
Hacker is more or less never used, but in general Decker is a hacker who works on the fly with a portable deck, spider is a hacker who defends buildings/hosts(sites) rather than being a criminal who tries to break into them, and rigger is a guy who uses drones for combat, he generally has some hacking skills to defend his drones but not much offensive wise.

I mean in 4e there was basically no reason to go with a standard all-magic adept over a chromed adept because the costs were so wonky. In 5e it's something of a choice.

Yeah, but even with the reduced price it doesn't really justify the essence cost.
For example, a single level of muscle replacement costs 1 Ess, and to get the bioware equivalent you need to pay just under double the cost (and 63K nuyen really isn't that much) for 0.4 Ess instead.
Then you get into things like cyberarms being horribly fucking expensive in both essence and nuyen (my houserule is that arms/legs only take 0.75 ess, and start at racial minimum+2 (so 3/3 for humans, 3/4 for elves, etc to represent them being the "average arm")
Then there's stuff like Rating 3 synaptic boosters saving you 3.5 essence for only 60k extra nuyen (and rating 2 saving 2 for 40k extra) when compared to WR of equivalent price.

Elvish Dickery Illusory Magic.
The character in question was fluff'd as an oldschool "elf" from the previous era that was Captain America'd in the ice until the 6th age. He was of the Tuatha people. Comparing long life and skill and grace and beauty and all that between a Tuathan and and Elf is like comparing an Elf to a Human, there is no comparision. Naturally the Tuatha would have an ego the size of the moon and constantly talk about how everything just used to be better. The character also had a hatred of all non-Tuathan elves unless they acknowledged him as their King.
The magical path of EDIM is one where you are always right and the world will bend to your point of view, as that is the correct point of view. You will always be a douche to everyone at all times because there are no other Tuatha you'll ever meet. But they won't care because you have a 24 dice pool for any EDIM plus a double-digit charisma and skills to match.
Your metamagic for centering will be singing songs in a language no one but you can understand because it's Tuathan. Bardish skills are a speciality of yours and you are sleeping with everyone because Tuatha-Life.
Just as Planned, I feel is critical to making this path feel right. Illusion magic plus the proper smug comment about your own divine foresight and skill in weaving such magical intricacies while, at the same time, putting down everyone else in the group and calling them smelly and ugly is a lot of fun when done right.

Cyberarms, legs, body, head, all crammed full of armour.
4 limbs + 1 body + 1 skull can fit 18 armour when you're naked, add in an armour jacket and a helmet you've got 33 armour. Top it off with ten body and 43 soak dice.
Add in a pain editor for extra fun (since all the damage you do take will be stun)

5e Pros:
>Better balanced (melee is viable again!)
>Best Matrix/decking rules yet (they're still rough)
>It's the newest and what most people are talking about and playing at this point

5e Cons:
>The editing. It's really bad.
>Technomancers got gimped hard
>A million things that really annoy specific people (wireless bonuses, CGL's ideas about guns, cyberlimb builds being weird, etc.)

>sacrifice 1 point of Essence for some init boosters and other biostuff

Nah, you sacrifice Essence to boost AGI or STR with muscle toner and muscle augmentation. The Improved Physical Attribute power is really ineffecient in Power Points.

Improved Reflexes is amazing and I don't know why any adept would take ware to boost initiative. I could see drugs if they were a really PP-hungry build, but that's about it.

Ehhh...
Improved Physical Attribute is garbage, so if you want better STR/AGI they just go with bioware now.

Even some of the 5e-specific issues actually take root in 4e. Like cyberarm becoming overpowered after they removed some limitations that 4e introduced.

you are usually better off using temporary boosters for STR/AGI in 5e, they are far more economical no matter what they come from and unlike INT/REA you don't need to have those high all the time.

It's pretty easy, you just go with a troll (for the high natural body) + 4 obvious cyberlimbs with armor additions and customization + Cybertorso + armor + customization

Layer on something like the sleeping tiger suit + argentum long coat + Ballistic mask and you are basically immune to small arms fire.

Throw on a trauma damper and you are golden.

It's insanely expensive but a lot of psuedo-cyberzombies are basically built around this chassis.

Yeah but adepts can get enough STR/AGI for it to not be a liability for them without, and they don't have to worry about it considering they can spend a power point on a whole lot more than just attribute points.

A better system for cyberlimbs is one of the things I wanted 5e to improve on that it never did, unfortunately. They did make cyberlimb armor less retarded, though. That rule was cancer.

You're right, I meant muscle toner. Don't know why I wrote init booster.

I do, it's because I'm shitposting instead of calling prospective employers to persuade them to give me an interview so I can get a job before the week is out and I don't have money to pay rent.

Any cool traps you have protecting your bolt-hole or cool traps you've seen on a run?

Drug adepts are tricky depending on the access to combat drugs and your ability to tank the negative impacts.

It's still a valid archetype though.

Replace the Armor Vest with a Second Skin Armor and the Big Game Hunter Armor for maximal protection. The BGH Armor is the best Armor you can wear over the Second Skin, and with you being fully chromed gaining weight isn't a concern

That just seems like a dick move, honestly. It's the GM setting up an obvious path that looks cool and fun, then punishing the players for daring to do anything without 3 Search tests and a 10-foot-pole.

But on topic, the Barrens are like Vietnam. Best hire a guide and walk exactly where they walk in an unfamiliar neighbourhood, or the ghouls will be eating well tonight.

Also gives the added bonus of being able to sink any boat by standing on it.

>That just seems like a dick move, honestly
I don't mean so much for using by the GM against the player's, I'm looking at this from a PCs perspective.

>implying that's not a troll racial quality

I just meant the rope trap in your picture. 'Foiling would-be Tarzans'? Because God help us if a player tried to emulate a famous hero and do something fun. Not to mention I hate the end of the section, basically daring the GM to do something extra horrible to the fallen PC as additional punishment for trying to have fun playing this game. It Wickian in it's dickishness.

Yeah, the writing isn't the best and it is quite dickish which does have its time and place, but I get what you mean. 98% of the time the GM shouldn't be a dick; iirc these trap ideas are from an old DnD newsletter or some sich.

Have a treat.

One of the issues with traps is that they are inherently made to be dickish and low blows, so it's really really hard to do them well in RPGs, especially ones like Shadowrun with such high lethality..

Thanks chum, have a qt on me.

meant for

For a moment, I thought that braid was an arm.

/srg/, help me avoid being a terrible person. I've been watching Rollplay and Mirrorshades made me want to try Shadowrun. I'm gonna read the pbh and some lore stuff so I know more of the world outside of what Adam explains, but how different is actually playing the game from watching Rollplay? Do they do things in a very different manner, or does it generally reflect the experience you'll have?

Also, has anyone played in a game advertised on Reddit? The ShadowNET / Runnerhub shit seems cool. How did it go? Was it spergcity or a pretty good time? Would you recommend I look in Gamefinder or something else?

Another few:
I like my Runs like I like my Sex: Without them noticing / arranged by a sketchy Russian
I like my Runs like I like my Runs : Smooth and over quick
I like my Runs like I like my Drinks : Homebrewn and Burning / Distilled down to the essentials / Done with my Friends

Shadownet and Runnerhub fail in that they miss out on character growth and group dynamics since it's just a bunch of one-shots, there's also not any reason to have "downtime" stuff for your PC, because you won't have any downtime since the games are basically just the run.
I've heard they are also quite cliquey but I've never personally played there.

Runnerhub has a decent rep, it's just super hard to get into a session because there's a hundred applications for every slot.

Also, no PHB in SR (most games are nice enough to put the rules for everyone in one book, rather than needing 3 books for core gameplay like D&D), but read your character's chapters in the core book carefully and have a cheat sheet (there's the Hayek ones in the pastebin).

>traps is that they are inherently made to be dickish and low blows
>traps
>dick-ish
>low blows
of course that's why we love em

>I like my Runs like I like my Sex: Without them noticing / arranged by a sketchy Russian

No "Lasting all night because you're not quite sure how to do it right?"

>especially ones like Shadowrun with such high lethality
Remember this is PCs using these traps against the GMs goon's. It's PCs using intelligence, planning and foresight to Just as Planned a situation.
That's exactly the reason I want to trap the FUCK outta an entire multi-story building.
It's easy as shit to get an HTR team to respond to a situation, so set the situation up so the entire HTR team is led into whatever traps are set up when they're tailing you, Just as Planned.
The part where the Black Trenchcoat turns Pink is when your whole PC team is now designed to do this one sort of thing, over and over and over.
Pink Trenchcoat is my new favorite

So you musta loved the Immortal Kenji Murisame.

>(most games are nice enough to put the rules for everyone in one book, rather than needing 3 books for core gameplay like D&D)
Sadly, shadowrun is not one of those if you want to play a rigger (or decker/mage, to a lesser extent)
Shadowrun has almost as much supplement bloat as DnD.

Yeah, the whole one-shot runs thing seems both a bit cool and lacking. I'd like to play in a normal group where I could get better at roleplay as well, but I don't know anyone who's interested in SR, let alone able to run it.

I noticed the huge amount of people applying, does seem like it might be a hassle. I'll probably still try my luck anyway unless I can find a game elsewhere before rolling up and submitting one to them.

Also since you guys didn't weigh in on it, I assume Mirrorshades hasn't conditioned me into being a That Guy?

The biggest difference is that Rollplay was using 1st edition rules. The game system (specifically the dice rolling) got quite a bit less complicated in the more current editions, and the setting has advanced to the 2070's instead of the 2050's. This means things have kept up with times. Adam put a lot of emphasis on Shadowrun being future-80's without cellphones and stuff, but that's not really the case anymore.

On Runnerhub/shadowNET, I was basically going to bring up what said about group dynamics. One-shots don't let you grow those kind of group dynamics. However, you might end up running into the same characters more than once (characters don't disappear after a single run) so it's not strictly true.

From what I've heard they're pretty welcoming to new players and might be worth checking out if you can't find a more permanent group.

I mean, if there's nothing stopping the players from making traps like that, there's not much stopping NPCs as well (other than the fact that well designed traps are "unfair" from an OOC standpoint)

Only from the meme.

well in SR's case it's more like
>you need these additional books to play a better character
not
>you need these additional books to even play at all

Also: no google, mood rings are not sushi

>less complicated
If anything, it got more convoluted as time went on.

>I mean, if there's nothing stopping the players from making traps like that, there's not much stopping NPCs as well
Isn't that part of the reason why your PCs have a high perception skill?

I didn't know that about the edition differences, thanks a lot. I'll be sure to read the 5e book much closer and note the differences

Shadowrun bloats out with supplements, but D&D has that as well. The thing is, D&D makes it so that you need at least PHB and DMG (and usually MM) before it's close to a complete game. SR has places to go and avenues to explore, and a lot of archetypes get a bit shorted in core, but you can buy one book and start playing.

>Also since you guys didn't weigh in on it, I assume Mirrorshades hasn't conditioned me into being a That Guy?
Don't haven't watched it, so I didn't want to weigh in. I can assume you're a piece of shit if it helps.

I think you'd have to be this guy to install that.

Probably a fair assumption

Make your trenchcoat as pink as an elf's pussy, user.

>not posting the better version

The old threshold rules were pretty weird, and the 1st edition damage codes seemed extremely clunky in practice compared to the simpler DV math of 5e.

Haven't played 1e myself, just observations based on what I've read of the rules and also a few in-play videos.

If you want to watch some Shadowrun players using 5e, Hyper RPG and EnterElysium have Shadowrun videos with pretty good (ie, at least RollPlay tier) production values.

Okay, so new guy still here. I guess I'm looking at 5e to start.

So, suppose I wanted to make something like a hybrid of Bear Grylls and Chuck Norris, in a survivalist that's spent the last decade in northern NAN.

What would that be, maybe a Christian Tradition Bear Totem Beast Adept? How viable is that mechanically?

I have both, I like the singular one better; more succinct, top-notch ideas.

That's gold, qt's for all!

...

I mean the basic dice is a little bit more complicated but in practice, it doesn't take longer to judge the outcome of a roll, really-- And a lot of the mathematical complexity was reintroduced elsewhere in order to keep things from getting fucked up.

Damage basically was a hybrid of wounds and hit-points. I quite like it, honestly. Kinda the way it works out is, damage and AP are rolled into the same weapon stat.

I'm a 2e fan myself, I've never quite seen the point in playing 1e over 2e like Mirrorshades did.

...

>4e
>adept edition
>paying more for something a mage can just buy foci for and then completely roll you
>shamans
>overpowered as fuck starting races

I don't think so, timmy. You're right, but for all the wrong reasons.

Technomancers are fine. The difference between techno/decker is basically the same as mage vs summoner and setup times.

God, I remember self-buff mages in 4e. It was broken /before/ they got the Quickening metamagic.

A woodsman fighty guy? Sure, that seems easy enough.

Adepts can be good at doing basically anything (though not everything at once).

You going for an Unarmed roundhouse-machine, or a machete kinda guy? Guns? Noguns? It's all possible, just different approaches.

>Technomancers are fine

Uh, no, they're really not. They have one decent 'build' that's not too wonky, yeah, but that makes them far from fine.

Shapeshifter self-buff mage, instantly heal yourself whenever you feel like it.

One day I want to see if I can manage to make Max Willpower, Dwarf Technomancer, and see if I can get somebody to brick their own deck with a failed attack roll.

>citation needed

Technomancers can hack things from a distance that deckers simply can't without direct connection ; you can skip a lot of the challenges deckers face in the process ; and you can stack up bonuses.

You can't slug it out like a decker can, and you need to /not/ get caught, but they have definite advantages... if you don't approach it like a hamfisted moron.

It doesn't lead to cool matrix setpiece battles that were a staple of previous editions, however.

Well, neither did the 4e matrix, really.

You really don't have an advantage as far as noise/distance is concerned. A decker can pretty trivially rest on five ( three for most trivial) noise reduction, while four is a larger investment for a Technomancer.

Also don't have an equivalent of a Satellite, so a decker has a max of -5 from distance. And it can't be understated how important being able to swap in and out programs and attributes can be.

If a decker just wants to hide, Sleaze 10 is just not trying hard. For a Techno, Sleaze 10 is a big investment. Pluse the Techno can hide at least three, but probably more, devices with 'em.

Although, the noise thing is a bit less true because of Suppress Noise now being a standard matrix action.

But the Techno is still at a disadvantage because a sprite isn't going to be on the same device and so it probably can't make a Suppress Noise action for you like an Agent probably can.

I'm thinking primarily unarmed, although I could see him using a Combat Knife/Machete/Tomahawk occasionally. High caliber pistols as backup for when I can't close to melee (maybe hunting/sniper rifles too, but no automatics). Also skill in primitive weapons like bows and spears.

I want to know what fits in this category that's viable mechanics-wise in 5e.

Troll. Adept or not, you want to be Troll Bow. (Or Ork bow.)

Generally you want to pick either Unarmed or Blades, as those have two different paths for adept powers (and the possibility of a Blade as a weapon focus, otherwise you need a different foci).

You could go Longarms and cut down a shotgun for something small(ish) and powerful, while also allowing you to have a rifle. As with melee choices, bow adepts are a specialized skill, so if you want to use a bow to kill you need to focus on it.

What metatype do you want?

I'd just like to come out and say that I actually like Horsehead centaurs and snake Nagas. It just seems to make more sense that something that awakened purely from horse stock or snake stock would look like that. Though I prefer to make things even less 100% standard analogues to fantasy with cyberpunk hammered on.

You can definitely get Knucks as a weapon focus for Unarmed.

Spears are governed by your generic Blades skill, so you get a couple options within it compared to Unarmed (unless fighting styles from R&G make a lot of difference, sinec I think some of the skills are Unarmed-only).

I think Archery can be as good as Pistols, but I never really compared the numbers. And you'd probably need one of the hi-tech composite bows for that anyway. Either way, it's probably better to stick with one or the other as your main ranged option, even if you use both.

Yeah, but that's not very woodsmanny.

There's also Plasteel Toe Boots from Hard Targets. I think a roundhouse with the mighty boot weapon focus is pretty Chuck Norris.

Just be careful that you don't go too far down the Chuck path. For once you do, it shall forever haunt you.

youtu.be/bK6hb602588

I feel a Troll or Sasquatch throwing adept would be dope for that idea.
Throwing a twig or a rock that hits like a high velocity rifle bullet is great for hunting since you can choose to do physical or stun damage so your dinner is always 100% harvestable meat. Plus, you never run out of ammo.