/wodg/, /cofd/

>What is the best Hunter Compact and why is it Division Six?

I've never understood the hype some people have for this Compact. Yeah, it mentions the technocracy and consensual reality. So what? There's really nothing interest there other than the fact it has call-backs to Ascension. They could have summarized everything about them in a sentence and put in something cool instead. In fact, if they really wanted to go that route why not something focusing on technomagick? Bump it up to Conspiracy (dump the Knights of St. George, they never really worked anyway) and you can hit the sore spot people have with the Technocracy's absence from Awakening and had something cool and sorta cyberpunky before Demon came in and monopolized it.

I've played on pretty much every site since the Mods and it's the same community in every one of them. The same drama, the same flaky STs that keep getting positions, etc. If you're bored or just addicted to that kind of RP, go for it, but once you've been burnt once by the community STOP going back because it NEVER gets better.

>Are there any links to major mechanical changes between 1e and 2e.
Oh goodness yes.
>Better yet, are there character creation rules out there?
This less so. We know Mages get 10 Merit dots, 6 Arcanum dots (ostensibly some of which need to be Ruling), a free Resistance Attribute dot (you pick which stat it goes in, this time around), and according to Dark Eras, standard Mages get 1 free dot in Occult.

They've also added some stuff to the Mage template.

Well that's a bummer to learn. I mean, I don't have a need to go back since I have a great CofD group, but I always did like the idea of playing a journalist in a MUSH-type game.

I like them because they're a goofy call back to Ascension, but still dangerous enough to wreck a Mage's day if they catch them off guard. They're never going to be an integral part of the game, but I don't need them to be.

Has anyone done something different for the monsters in their Hunter games than just porting over the other splats directly? Like, parasitic vampires a la The Strain? In my game I made all werewolves just wolf-spirit claimed humans, usually ones who're shamans or someone they've cursed.

Knights of Saint George are awesome, though. They're one of the more interesting Conspiracies, narratively.
Their mechanics are kind of not good, though. Especially the cost structure.

I never port things over directly, though I'll use the mechanics of other splats (Disciplines in particular make for good Dread Powers). My one big thing was a Slasher who was based on Kuchisake-Onna, though I didn't use the Slasher template, either.

Chronicles of fagness

Now it's a thread!

I like them because they're poor man's cowboy Delta Green: constantly understaffed, badly equipped and with dubious legitimacy. Technomagik would undermine that feel. I'm not a fan of either version of Mage, but I'll admit that I prefer the morally ambiguous Technocracy over the ridiculously evil Exarchs.
I agree that the Knights of St. George are pretty terrible. Their endowment simply doesn't work, it's way too focused on anti-magic to be useful against anyone else. The Cainites have the same problem, but at least they're kind of cool.
I really hope the new Hunter book will improve all compacts and conspiracies.

>Knights of Saint George are awesome, though. They're one of the more interesting Conspiracies, narratively.
I completely disagree. They're basically a cult who're wink-nod servants of the abyss when they could put a lot more distance between them and Mage's cosmology. The idea of being divinely inspired is neat, having weird angels as patrons is neat, but they don't stress that so much as take the opportunity to tease more about how they're connected to Mage. I know it's Witch Finders, but it just irks me. There was potential there, wasted.

Also, their mechanics are some of the worst of any nWoD faction ever conceived.

>poor man's cowboy Delta Green
They could have done this in so many different, better ways than Division Six. Like, this could have been a corebook compact, but instead it's a forgettable entry in their collection of underwhelming splatbook compacts (I'm looking at you Talbot Group, Night Watch, Maiden's Blood and Utopia Now).

Honestly, now that there's no more Tier system, there's pretty much no reason to keep any of the Compacts. I figure 2e is mostly going to focus on all the Conspiracies.

This is Hunter, not Mage. There are wink-nods and their powers are anti-mage, but they also work on everything else. I don't remember anything about how they ONLY work on mages, like with the Cainites.

I also love the connections to Mage. Especially in Hunter, where implanting an Abyssal entity in your own body makes you harder to target with Vampiric powers. The Conspiracy IS one that's focused on a particular supernatural, but they're not completely useless when dealing with other things.

The thing I like most about them, though, is their motivation. They don't hunt people because they think those people are evil, they do it because a greater evil will destroy the world if they don't appease it. I like that. I like evil cultists that aren't all jumping at a chance to give Cthulhu presents. I like that they're a reluctant cult to cosmic horrors.

I also like Maiden's Blood Sisterhood and Utopia Now. I think Utopia Now are one of those groups that's firmly in the "neat for worldbuilding, bad for play" groups, but I just love the concept.

The idea for a Utopia Now compact is good, but the execution and that one's particular fluff are garbo.

I just don't find that compelling or as interesting as you're making it seem from the actual text. Also, if I wanted reluctant cultists I'd just refluff TFV to the group from "Cabin In the Woods."

Were they really all that reluctant in Cabin in the Woods? I mean, when you've got a betting pool going about what monster the sacrifices will unleash, there's at least some kind of gusto they've got for the event.

They weren't reluctant at all, they were in full "for the greater good" mode. Someone had to be the assholes otherwise the world ended, and they knew it had to be them.

What's your problem with it?
Would have been better if it were a Conspiracy in my opinion.

Iunno, like I said, that's what I like about them. When I read it, I immediately started mentally formulating a story of a doomed relationship where a Dragonslayer falls in love with a lovely caring witch and does his best to meet his "quota" with other victims. He finally can't do it anymore and the walls are cracking, and so he decides to sacrifice himself instead.

I think it stops being "for the greater good" and more "part of the job" when you're placing bets on who lives and who dies.

I know they're not that great as poor man's cowboy Delta Green, but hey, that's what we got. They're still one of the better splatbook compacts.
I'm pretty sure that most Goetic Gospels
specifically target people using Source and Mysteries (aka Mages and witches).
I hope it doesn't. I like quite a few compacts, and I wish to see them expanded.

What Compact line-up would you like to see in a 2e core?

>I think it stops being "for the greater good" and more "part of the job" when you're placing bets on who lives and who dies.

They got complacent, but when shit goes wrong the guys running the show serious the fuck up in an instant. They were so good at what they did that they stopped taking it so seriously, but they always knew why they were doing it; when the avalanche didn't happen tweedle-dee sprinted the full length of the building to fix it.

Division Six, Loyalists, Bear Lodge, the Union, Promethean Brotherhood, Net 0 and Null Mysteris. I'm on the fence with the Long Night. They're a bit too cliche.

I like the idea of the The Long Night, especially with the attempt to do a more multi-faceted look at Evangelism in Compacts and Conspiracies, but they've always been in the shadow of Malleus Malificarum.

They tried to shoehorn in the whole libertarian Free State Project garbage onto it and centered it around one guy with such a generic WASPy name I nearly puked. It should have been a loose network of world-builders who trade DIY recipes for subverted infrastructure. In essence, it should have been more Linux, less Alex Jones. Maybe throw in some /r9k/ 'get us all away from the normies' stuff if you want to add a sinister aspect, but do you really need to spell out how dangerous it is for people to create their own private worlds using technology they only barely understand?

I don't know, I could see the kinds of folks who want Elon Musk to run the world to have their own Compact.

I'd keep Network Zero, Null Mysteriis, Loyalists from the original core. Elevate Heritage House and flesh it out more. Put Hunt Club, Bear Lodge and Promethean Brotherhood in a new section with more antagonist oriented compacts for hunters that are close to or have succumb to being slashers.

I'd keep The Long Night, but go even further with the Tribulationist stuff and add in faith healing, snake handling, and other wack-a-doo aspects of Protestantism. Maybe bump it up to a Conspiracy.

It's been a while since I read Compacts and Conspiracies. I'll be sure to check it out.

It just uses the generic term "witches". There's a sidebar in the actual book (that subnet doesn't have) that goes into how the Conspiracy doesn't JUST target Awakening style Mages. I look at it sort of like the Banality Worm Thaumatechnology Endowment.

I'm not saying they're not capable of being professional. I'm just saying that they're not reluctantly taking human life for the greater good.

I want all of them. But if I had to pick my favourites...
The Union, Network Zero, Long Night, Maiden's Blood Sisterhood, and maybe a revamped Null Mysteriis that's more Fringe than Scully. I things like Utopia Now, Barret Commission, The Talbot Group, and so on should get maybe 100 word blurbs about how they exist, but don't need real wordcount dedicated to them. Habibti Ma should also go in this section, neato as they are.
Ashwood Abbey and Promethean Brotherhood (with the Rite of Hecate) should be in the Antagonists section as an example of what most Hunters tell themselves they aren't. Faithful of Shulpae (and probably Knights of Saint George, since other hunters can count as "witches") should also be in the antagonist section.

I'd also like to see a 2e update of the Gifted merit, or at least much better Endowment creation guidelines than the ones in the 1e core.

>I'm just saying that they're not reluctantly taking human life for the greater good.

They're not going out of their way to kill people though, nor even just accepting collateral damage. They go way out of their way to make sure only and exactly the minimum number of people necessary to put of the apocalypse actually die.

To wit, I'd also scrap the following compacts and either redo them, fold them in with others, or just eliminate them entirely; Ashwood Abbey I'd like to have in the core, but have it slowly being overtaken by the Hunt Club, make its actual 'members' be just old money hedonists with all the young 1%ers being lured in by the hot new drug. Combine Talbot Group and Halbiti Ma into a support group focused compact. Combine Night Watch and the Union. Make the Barrett Commission a faction within Cherion, make Maiden's Blood a faction within Null Mysteriis, and eliminate all the rest. Espcially the exoticism trash that was Ahl al-Jabal.

But all of that is why it's great. I think the Libertarian obsession with Seasteading is great. Doomed to be like Rapture, but that's why it's great. It's not even any more sinister than Rand Paul already is.

I feel like I'm one of the few people who hates the Null Mysteriis and Loyalists. Heritage House is a neat concept, but I don't really think it needs to be fleshed out.

What COULD be fleshed out is the Demonblooded PMC. Or Daeva Corp.

>Demonblooded PMC
They're hoping for a time when demand for their services will skyrocket...like the good ol' days after 9/11!
Are we talking Descent Demonblooded, Inferno Demonblooded or a mix?

Daeva Corp should have had more wordcount in the Demon Storyteller's Guide. It's really a shame. Also, yeah, that PMC and let's not forget about the experimental weapon makers Ganaducci Arms.

>hates Null Mysteriis and Loyalists.
Why? I mean, I'd think combining the desire for scientific discovery with a world that refuses to obey the laws of nature is great fodder for horror fiction. That which should not be, but then somehow you start understanding how to operate within the insane otherworldly principles and suddenly you're Herbert West.

And my only complaint about the Loyalists is they had to tie it to the Nazi stuff. I'd rather just have Ripper Giles and a group of people who recruit from those who tamper with the supernatural and fuck up, and are compelled to atone through service.

Just remove Ashwood and replace them with another generalist compact.

The core Hunter book shouldn't dip too much into specialist groups who particularly like to hunt a certain monster.

Considering he mentioned Daeva Corp(which is actually Deva Corp in the books), probably Descent.

I wasn't aware there was a Demon-Blooded PMC, though. Guessing that's in Heirs to Hell?

Found 'em
Hell's Fourth Legion, Heirs to Hell, page 45
There's also Project 4X, on page 46, which feels like a Demon-Blooded branch of VASCU if you have to integrate it into the greater cosmology.

>Have you ever played on an online MUSH or moderated chat? If so, what were your experiences?
Fucking horrible. Probably the only bad thing that hasn't happened to my characters is they haven't been raped, but I've talked with someone else whose did. I've also dealt with shitty cliquishness that schemes OOC to make people hate the game and get people banned for "cheating" over trivial bullshit.

Descent. It's from that book that was being argued about last thread. There's a section about groups of Demonblooded, and one example blurb was of a PMC that I'm pretty sure was a reference to Outer Heaven.

My problem isn't the concepts, it's the execution. NM seem too skeptical. Too "that isn't possible" as opposed to "HOW is that possible?"
Of course, skimming over it, that's more from their quotes than the write up. I want a group that's more Fringe than Scully, and accepts that the supernatural is real and works, so the question is how and why.

The Loyalists on the other hand are like you said, way too wrapped up in the whole Nazi guilt thing, and would be better if it was pre-Buffy Giles hitting the library to research how to banish an ancient Celtic God.

>which is actually Deva Corp in the books
My bad.

Care to post or screenshot it? I don't want to download the book.

How are the Abbey specialists?

The Abbey aren't specialists. They should be removed because they are terrible.

I forgot to quote the other posts that were asking for groups like Deva, Bear Lodge, or Division Six, which are specialists.

My bad.

This just in, Aspel is an annoying, nu-male shitposter who the threads would be far better without. The degree to which he stokes the fires of shitposting about the various minor bits of tumblr in the books is fucking abhorrent.

We seem to have been managing to avoid that this thread so far.

True, but I think it's only a matter of time.
But getting back on topic, anyone got any good stories from their hunter games?

Sure thing

youtube.com/watch?v=8h2qjg6KfaM
I found a Thing, i think it might be a Changeling related thing, but I'm not sure.

>warns about shitposting via shitposting

It's a two way street. You've gotta take your political buzzwords out as well.

Ensorcelled family, maybe? Is that even still a thing in Changeling 2e, by the way?

You can't just stoke the fires of shitposting and then go "back on topic". You're the one who took us off topic.

Danke. I think the name is dumb, and honestly the write up isn't as cool as I always remember, but it really gives me great MGS ideas. I want a Metal Gear Solid style PMC made up of DemonBlooded.

Actually, that'd be a pretty awesome version of WoD Revealed. MGS4, but with supernaturals instead of nanomachines.

Should be, yeah.

I can agree with not having "specialist" compacts in the main book, but I also think the eventual splatbooks should have more on what the compact does when confronted with threats they don't usually deal with, like the Bear Lodge fighting vampires.

>Have you ever played on an online MUSH or moderated chat? If so, what were your experiences?

> A bunch of people awkwardly trying to ERP with me, then suddenly losing interest when I don't want to have text cyber sex.
> Players who are really bad at uphodling the Masquerade so to speak. I was playing a Mortal and this Immortal came up and told me EVERYTHING about their faction.
> Cow-tit stripper character with lust aura trying to fingerbang me at a wafflehouse in public.
> Nice but repetitive social scenes.

:^) I totally can though.

>Players who are really bad at uphodling the Masquerade so to speak. I was playing a Mortal and this Immortal came up and told me EVERYTHING about their faction.

I'm trying to imagine what that's gotta be like in-universe.

>And that'll be 10.50. Do you have a Preferred Savings card?
>I'M A BLOOD BATHER
>Would you like to register for one?
>I USE A TUB CARVED FROM THE ROCKS OF OMPHALOS STONES AND BATH IN THE BLOOD OF THE CHANGING BREEDS TO LIVE FOREVER!
>Cash or credit, ma'am?

That would be nice, yeah. Just because you go out of your way to fight vampires, doesn't mean you won't bump into stuff that seems like a vampire at the time.

"We kept following this guy that could sneak real well, turn into animals, and was drinking human blood!"

"Oops, turned out to be a werewolf that was into weird ritualistic stuff."

I don't think the Barrett Commission jives well with Cherion. If they were to get folded into any group it should be VASCU or TFV. I think the bst idea would be to fold to Barret Commission, Union, and Night Watch into a category that represents homegrown Hunter Compacts. Like they aren't all the same group, but they have a similar theme so have them be presented as examples on how to build such a Compact for your area.

What's the point of folding compacts?

Like, what do the players gain?

The worst part is players in positions of power or responsibility, who don't understand that being an officer of the law is about more than putting "Cop" on your character sheet.

I'm now going to unprompted tell one of my shitty WanWic stories:

So my character was this tiny little Moros transgirl who was all about fixing problems and being understanding, and positive change. In one scene, a bunch of people were looking over the rubble of the Mage venue's get together, and a guy who was a Seer, a Banisher, or both started spouting out generic villain dialogue. He'd been encountered before, and he had an aura that made Covert spells Vulgar. In keeping with my character's personality, I decided to try TALKING to him that time. So I was being a friendly person to him the second time around and trying to ask him why he was doing what he was doing. Everyone else pulled out guns. This was like 10pm on a Tuesday in the ruins of an old Chinese noodle place.

The fighting started, and wanting to stop the violence (with an Obrimos even having his Supernal Familiar throw fireballs) I grabbed the rubble and used Verminous Metamorphosis to create a cloud of wasps. The bad guy got away, but at least no one was throwing around fireballs or shooting wildly. But because I was suddenly helping him (even though it was clear IC and OOC that's not what I was doing) the Obrimos Arrow pulls a gun on me and tells me to come with him. Now, IC I have no fucking clue who he is or whether he has authority or not, and I just saw him throwing fireballs and shooting people. And I'm a little five nothing goth chick.

I high tail it to my motorcycle and the whole time I'm getting *shot at* by the Arrow (with a Guardian perfecting his gun). I spend half my actions using Healing Heart. I ran out of mana and passed out after taking about 12L.

>All about fixing problems
>First problem she fixed was her penis

Couldn't help myself

I then spend the next week in IC jail, unable to scene except when one of my jailers is around. I hung out in the OOC lobby making jokes about "Attica! Attica!" or "Fuck the police" and how I was now hardened because I'd been in jail, and apparently this upset people and there were complaints that I was harassing the people who prevented me from playing my character. Because, you know, I wanted to have fun even if I couldn't actually play my character.

For a week, my character gets outed as trans (due to the suggestion that I not use magic; which stopped one of the guys who hits on every female character from hitting on me, despite not knowing that OOC) and has to stay in a cell in the basement of a frat house. I can only talk to other people who have that as their Sanctum, and my lawyer, who's another Adamantine Arrow.

Finally I get to go to trial (which meant being outed to the whole Consilium). There was the suggestion that maybe my mentor should have trained me better (there's some confusion about whether or not there were no muggle witnesses when I used a vulgar spell, though the Arrow had fireballs flying around, his argument was they were from a Familiar, so COMPLETELY OKAY and not breaking the masquerade), but ultimately it was decided that I was innocent, unlawfully imprisoned, and the guy who did it acted recklessly and without cause, and basically that he was shit at being a magecop.

The guy ragequit and deleted his character. He was also one of the previous Mage STs. Because STs on these things are ALWAYS shit.

A few hours later, after a fight with some big thing that attacked the Consilium, I got banned for "cheating" because I didn't list off my active spells every time someone new joined the channel, because a) that's not how Mage's Unseen Sense works, and b) it was listed on my profile that I always had Life spells up.

Hi Rory.

Actually she didn't. She could only make herself look more feminine, not actually genderchange. It was also a prolonged duration spell, since you can't Indefinite without Conditional Duration. It was also dual cast with Transform Self to give her hair vibrant animal tones.

But, yes, that is also intentional. "I didn't feel comfortable as a guy, so I changed".
She also had a habit of casually transmuting things.

A slightly less "Goddamnit this method of playing games is bullshit" story involves the ST deciding I would blow myself up when I made a bomb by turning a cup into sodium and throwing it.

Who are you that you know that story already?

but division six, the loyalists, bear lodge and network zero are horrible

so's long night

It's not hard to tell that it's you. You're bitching loudly about your trans character. I'm not sure he has to be someone you know.

>Who are you that you know that story already?
You gave yourself away with
>So my character was this tiny little Moros transgirl
Everyone knows you're the only trans-fetishist pedophile on /wodg/

Can anyone explain to me how magic "works" in Mage: the Ascension? In terms of lore/flavor, not mechanics.

I am so powerful that everyone else must bend to my will

No, that's Awakening. Ascension is "I believe this so hard that stuff happens."

There's a book about it.

"I'm right because I'm right because I'm right"

Makes Compacts less specific. Most of the ones suggests are about merging similar groups. You don't need a Hunt Club and an Abbey, especially when the Hunt Club's schtick is "the Ashwood Abbey... BUT SLASHERS!"
Talbot and Habibti Ma are different in terms of geography and focus, but they're still essentially about helping people who were supernatural victims. Night Watch and Union are practically the same thing. I disagree on the Barrett Commission+Cheiron and Maiden's Blood+Null Myst. They're different spheres and focuses.

Honestly, it'd be interesting if they basically ditched ALL of the Compacts and instead used a system where they separate Compacts into general categories (Rationalists, Believers, Scholars, whatever) and then the Compacts examples it gave were vague overviews, and suggestions of how to make your own Compact. Double the Compacts, but make their write up about as much as . Then you've also got the ability to talk about where certain groups have similar ideals but have separate origins, without just making compacts that are the same thing over and over.

I'm bitching about a shitty MUSH. Also, playing a young character doesn't make you a pedophile, and she was still mid twenties.

No, but being a pedophile makes you a pedophile. You've always been a creepy fuck.

Turn Compact Membership into a version of Mystery Cult Initiation and tweak the merit slightly. Boom, done. You don't need to waste all that word count on a write-up for every compact's status benefits. Just give lots of options and examples.

we've got like 3 canon paragraphs about Daeva Corp like goddamn. Feed us, Onyx Path.

Magic (or rather Magick because why the fuck not) in Mage: The Ascension works like this:

Reality is consensual. As long as we all get together and say "Yes, the way the world as it is makes sense" on a subconscious level, it will be that way. This can work on multiple levels, there can be places where someone can cure cancer with a mix of water and herbs and some places where you can cure it with prayer based on what people believe, but everyone believes that the sun rises and sets.

Not everybody gets to set the stage for what everyone gets to agree on. While reality is consensual, it's not democratic either. This is where Mages come in. A single Mage can impose their personal will on reality without the consent of others at the risk of Paradox. A group of mages who believe in a certain kind of magickal practice get to make a Paradigm, again, with some Paradox. A Paradigm with enough people to believe in it, Mage and Sleeper, gets to be the Dominant Paradigm and the defining cornerstone of reality, and practice with little to no Paradox.

Hopefully they're not done with Demon sourcebooks and we'll get something about Stigmatics specifically and cults. That'd be the perfect place to really showcase Deva Corp.

I'd also combine Illuminated Brotherhood and Keepers of the Source as just 'we want to experience the supernatural to better ourselves'.

They use their will to influence the pattern of the universe. Things help, like personal beliefs and hypernarratives (if I shoot that gas tanker, it will explode, voodoo can be used to harm people at a distance)

Okay, so if I'm getting it straight, mages are just individuals that draw more water so to speak when deciding their local reality. Paradox is a sort of feedback they get when their imposed reality is too different from the Paradigm.

More or less correct? What makes one person a mage and another a Sleeper? Genetics? Random chance?

Pretty much for the first one, and as for the second one, everyone has the same chance to Awaken, since it usually happens around a personal revelation. There's no hard and fast way to game the system.

Well, that's technically what it is already. Conspiracies are also Mystery Cults with the first dot being "you can purchase Endowments".
I'm not saying we should get rid of them, and I do want to know about the groups, but we definitely don't need the huge three page spreads and redundant groups we got. Especially since looking over them, most of the three page spreads aren't really necessary to begin with.

Keepers of the Source are the anti-mage hippies who tend to have Unseen Sense that feels like the earth is crying whenever someone draws Source.
But if Compacts were split into group themes instead of giving everything a big write up, the two hippie groups would probably go in the same subsection.

Has Monica put out a Hunter open call yet?

No, she's been quiet for months. I'm worried when she resurfaces it'll be with bad news.

>if I shoot that gas tanker, it will explode
It wouldn't surprise me if this was automatically true in Ascension because everyone believes it.

The fact that there are so many things that don't work the way that they would if reality were consensual is one of the biggest problems I have with the concept of consensual reality.

Fun fact, that nut who shot up the Planned Parenthood because he had a dream that the aborted fetuses would greet him in heaven and tell him how he saved so many unborn children? He actually placed propane tanks around because he thought that during his shootout with cops he could shoot them to have them explode.

Apparently Right wing terrorists need to watch more Mythbusters.

>The fact that there are so many things that don't work the way that they would if reality were consensual is one of the biggest problems I have with the concept of consensual reality.

Isn't codifying reality the work of the Technocracy?

Dunno. But if reality were consensual, things people believe would be true. If the Technocracy codified reality, it wouldn't be consensual anymore.

I think that was their intent.

IIRC (from what little I know about mage) back in Ye Olden Days mages pretty much ran everything, and life was a nightmare for Sleepers that had no control over their reality. The Technocracy arose and invented shit like science and math to codify reality at a base level, and reign in the influence of mages.

She's most likely getting an outline ready to send to Paradox. That can take time, among other jobs she might have. It seems to be that to get a new edition or a new line, you have to submit an outline first and get that approved before any writing can be done, if DavidH's post of the Changeling 2e outline is anything to go by.

People need to believe in the stuff put forward for it to work though.Even with the Technocracy in control the world should work under action movie physics.

I worry she's going to go really far afield with a gameline that really doesn't need much change.

Alternate vampire origin stories. Anyone got any cool ones? I'm trying to come up with a Roman-based one regarding being cursed by Apollo and Diana, thus a weakness to the sun and silver.

Depends on the kind of change you're talking about. Now that the Tier system's been phased out and quite a bit of it was put into Mortal, Hunter might need a tighter facelift than expected.