Star Wars never stood a chance. Star Trek is far superior

Taken at their peak, Star Trek wins easily. I mean, "Star Trek" is pretty broad and includes Q and any number of ultra-powerful energy beings. But even supposing it's the Federation vs. the Galactic Empire joined by the Rebellion, the Federation just goes back in time and ends their shit before it ever began. Or they use their transporters to clone an army of Kirks to beat them all up and sleep with their women. Or they use that super speed concoction to move so fast that everybody else looks like they're frozen in place. Or whatever.

But that's kind of bullshit, because Star Trek shouldn't get an advantage from its inconsistency, and it's not like they ever pulled out all the stops like that on the show(s). So let's look not at peak but at the high end of normal operating level. That should solve things, right? But honestly, I'm not sure what that is for Trek. And which Trek are we talking about, anyway?

I will say that Trek can innovate the fuck out of technology when it needs to, while Star Wars is basically static. So even if Star Wars starts off with a marked advantage, it could ultimately be in some trouble.

yes

>when a sub 90 IQ attempts to troll

power man couldn't save Fern Gully

Power man wouldn't save fern gully.

Star Trek energy shields can basically stop any normal space weapon and is pretty well ubiquitous on their ships. Even civilian and non-combat ships have weak ones that casually stop micro-meteors and other small collisions.
So that's a pretty big advantage there right off the bat. Phasers are a step above lasers, but Star Wars lasers are pretty fantastical. Star Trek has functionally infinite power on their ships, but Star Wars never really gives a shit about power either way.

Actually, now that I think about it, most Star Wars weapons aren't really lasers. They're "blasters", which use some kind of pseudo-plasma and can be directed at weird angles after being projected from their guns.
So it might actually be on par with phasers.

>defeating Jackie Chan who don't want no trouble

fucking bullshit

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Crusher

Just send this into the 11 most important systems of the federation while a fuck huge fleet of star destroyers distracts them, then the Klingons/Borg can do the rest.

Y'know back in my day, arguing on the internet about whether the Enterprise could defeat the Millennium Falcon was the memetic "most pathetic thing you could do." You didn't have to bring permavirginity or mom's basement into it, that was just assumed by the fact that you were arguing over which two fictional starships from two separate fictional universes with no real basis for comparison was better than the other.

When did that change?

I'll take the bait!

Federation loses. Why?
The Empire may have less diverse ships, but the ones they do have do their job to a ludicrous degree.
Take pic related for example. The Interdictor Star Destroyer would fucking cripple Federation Fleets. The Gravity Well it produces can pull ships out of Warp, and prevent them from even using their warp engines during combat. Forcing the Federation to rely solely on Impulse Power for maneuvering would be like taking a land whale off their scooter. Not only would the Federation ships be essentially flying through mud, but they couldn't escape either.
I'm not saying the Interdictor would win the war for the Empire, but it would make naval encounters a fucking nightmare for the Federation, to the point where the actual Imperial Star Destroyers would face little challenge from the Federation ships

>muh ladder and babby

Deal with it, pleb! He beats all when any crossover happens!

If it was a Star Trek episode, that would work once or twice (On "important" systems that were never mentioned before or since) and then they'd develop some kind of containment or countermeasure technobabble that gets deployed to whatever ships are around.
The Federation doesn't fight in warp. There's a reason why micro-warping behind an enemy ship and blasting its ass is a special maneuver that got named after the guy who first did it. It's not standard or easy.

Most space weapons are legitimately lasers.

More pathetic things came into existence. A quick glance into /r9k/ could probably illustrate that better than any amount of words could.

At least if you're talking small arms, I don't think so:

A blaster hitting a normal human will often throw them back and kill them.

A phaser at full power shooting at someone usually disintegrates them instantly.

I don't see much arguing here. This is mostly rational discussion, even if the topic is inane and pointless.

This is basically the deamonbane clause, isn't it?

At least it doesn't have so many plotholes that even the plotholes have plotholes.

>Taken at their peak, Star Trek wins easily. I mean, "Star Trek" is pretty broad and includes Q and any number of ultra-powerful energy beings. But even supposing it's the Federation vs. the Galactic Empire joined by the Rebellion, the Federation just goes back in time and ends their shit before it ever began.
IIRC the future Fedetation have a division whose purpose is to unfuck the timeline when someone pulls the time travel card, so no.

>Federation doesn't fight in warp
Then I may very well be misinformed, as I was operating under the knowledge that the used partial warp speed to improved their ship's speed and maneuvering in combat situations. Shows what I know I guess, but everything else about my post still stands!

And I think I'll eat even more delicious bait!

Ground combat would be a joke for the Empire! The Federation has displayed no mechanized defense forces, nor any other sort of ground warfare beyond infantry! Stormtroopers get a bum rap, but they are super good against anyone without plot armor. And there are a lot of them.
It barely needs saying, but the Phaser may have a few neat functions, akin to an expensive garden hose nozzle, but such versatility comes at the cost of raw firepower, which the standard issue E-11 blaster rifle has in spades. The E-11 is a gun and it wants you to know it in the loudest way possible. It blows holes in armor, walls, and people. The Paser can only compete on its higher power levels, which rapidly drain its batteries. The Phaser Rifle may stand more of a chance, but both it and its handheld version are hindered by their slow firing rates, compared to the E-11's rapid to single fire capabilities.
Also, AT-AT's would go a long way in capturing any ground target the Federation has that the Empire wants.

>comes at the cost of raw firepower
Phasers can literally disintegrate armored targets.
They don't have mechanized forces because one guy with a phaser can melt a tank with one hand tied behind his back.
AT-ATs go down to a single shot from a lone gunman using a weapon that he can hide in his back pocket.
It's really not a contest on the ground.

something that's often forgotten is just how effective the Empire is at total war
in this case the combination of incredibly fast FTL with ships that are individually capable of sterilizing a planet and in general the sheer numbers advantage the Empire has they can essentially ignore the Federation's ships and start glassing planets from orbit and keep doing that until they issued an unconditional surrender
And given the Empire is led by a god damn Sith lord this sort of tactic would not be out of character for them.

how come they dont just send space dudes out with phasers then

That is basically the Empire's only real advantage, and it is a pretty big one. Their FTL can get their ship really, really close to a planet, while the Federation needs to warp to the edge of a system and then impulse in.

Because they're using ship sized phasers instead and ship shields also stop transporters from crossing over, so boarding doesn't work most of the time.

And hell! Why not make one more grab at the bait!

The only field on which the Federation would be evenly matched, or even have a certain edge, would be in the small ship combat. TIE Fighters are garbage, and quite frankly rely on swarm tactics and the old adage, "The best armor is not getting hit"
This is nearly impossible when pitting TIE Fighters against the Federation's shuttle craft and two man fighters as they are exceptionally accurate. While it would be one hell of a dogfight, The Federation's small ships would simple be outnumbered and lose from drowning in TIE Fighters. Seeing as how this is all guess work, I can only guess that for every one Shuttle Craft, you would need 8 or so TIE Fighters.

But the empire also needs to use specific spacelanes and would need time to scout them out so they don't accidentally cream themselves on a warp shadow or whatever they call it.

Empire has small fighter class ships with FTL capable drives which they can use for scouting
and given the sheer size of the Empire's economy and manpower base sacrificing a few thousand of them to accurately map the Federation's planetary systems would be considered an acceptable loss.
And once again: led by a Sith lord, casually throwing away lives is not an issue.

But if there is no crossover, Power Man is powerless!

The problem is that the Federation will quickly figure it out and know exactly where to park to block them.
And then you're actually fighting against phasers and torpedoes. We'll assume that star wars and star trek shields both actually function as they're supposed to, it's still not going to be a walk in the park, and one tactic I could see working would be to knock out imperial shields and then transport their now defenseless bridge crew directly into a Federation prison cell.

Then why can't a phaser melt through rocks and debris that often times trap our intrepid Federation Heroes?
I have seen multiple instances of them saying, "It's usless, the phaser just can't cut through it"
Or "It won't cut through it in time"
Implying that a surplus of armor would indeed have an impact on whether the phaser is usless or not. Armor that the AT-AT has out the fucking ass.

I'm not sure what relivance plowing equestria has in thay comic other then being wish fulfillment, not against just question the reason

Star Trek has more consistency
Star Wars has better highs, but when it sucks ass, it really does.

The disintegrate setting uses a lot of power and is often too strong to be used as a tool. Trying to take out some rocks might cause a total cave collapse.
Disintegrate has always completely obliterated whatever it hits at the molecular level. There's not even dust left over.

Transporters can't penetrate or even function if there's even so much as electrical disturbances in the area.
Seriously, Dr. McCoy was right to not trust those things. They're buggy as fuck, and don't work half the time.

I don't know exactly what the size is on a typical Federation ship bridge but I doubt it'll be sufficient to contain the entirety of an Imperial Star Destroyer's command staff
After all there's a pretty god damn massive size difference between the ships.
And given just how many ships the Empire has at its disposal and how fast their FTL drive is we could be looking at them successfully glassing several hundred planets within weeks if necessary.
If this doesn't immediately cause the Federation to go to peace talks at the very least the dramatic loss in infrastructure will hamper their combat abilities.

Hey isn't there already a board for cancerous meme threads based on film and television?

Fuck, you're dumb. Dr. Who sucks. It's a fucking children's show compared to Star Trek.

They're used to kidnap people off of unshielded ships all the time.
We have to assume that Star Wars shields function the same way or there's literally no contest.
Brig, not bridge. Star trek ships have thousands of crewmembers. If there really are too many to hold in the brig, then transport them to a shuttlebay with the entire security staff and hit them with dozens of wide-angle stuns at the same time. Same effect, slightly more effort.
Also, the Federation would likely start looking at their own ultimate options if the Empire is glassing planets willy nilly. Stuff like black hole generators directly onto the capital.

I like star wars more but I must admit star trek ultimately has better tec and bigger guns ultimately, but star wars is ironically more consistent for its lack of relistic grounding

Yeah but how much of a thing is disintegrated? The equivalent to a person? A large bolder? It would not be able to disintegrate an entire AT-AT purely based on a matter of mass and volume.
Not only that, disintegration is a thing in Star Wars, so it's easily assumed that any super tank like the AT-AT would be made out a material that is immune or has resistance to that sort of attack.
You can't win user. Star Wars is the superior on all fronts except TIE Fighters.

true enough but the problem would be reaching those options fast enough and delivering them widespread enough to match the destruction the Empire would inflict
I mean after every facility and major city on a planet has been destroyed there's not much point in destroying it any further, for the remainder of the war that planet is now virtually useless.
A single star destroyer is sufficient to do this to a planet and the empire has a massive number of them
sure the federation could engage their own ultimate option and turn a few planets into black holes or heck stars, but the issue would be in the time they inflicted that on a single world the empire has depopulated 50 of theirs

And even Force Awakens fixed them up

It wouldn't need to disintegrate the entire AT-AT when it can disintegrate one of its knees.
If the AT-AT was made out of a material that could prevent it from being molecularly disbonded, then there would be literally no way to take one down ( Or create one, actually, but that's beside the point.). Yet they're taken down by a rope and some heavy fire from lasers.

Are they comparable?

Sci-Fi recontextualizes contemporary issues. Star Wars has tackled religion, the Cold War, the ethics around computers/AI, and many other issues.

Star Wars on the other hand is a pretty meh hero's journey. Basically a fantasy story with a sci-fi setting. (It's also very obviously derivative - Flash Gordon tossed in a blender with Dambusters and Kurosawa samurai flicks, but that's neither here nor there.)

Disintegrating a boulder (or person)-sized chunk of an AT-ATs leg would be remarkably effective, but that's mostly because the AT-AT is horribly designed.

You're assuming that the Empire can quickly deploy that many Star Destroyers to that many planets with no opposition whatsoever. The Federation likes to be hippy peaceful, but they're fully capable and willing to blow the shit out of their enemies at the drop of a hat.

If you want to get real crazy, we could say that the Q help the federation and give them one of those guns that creates supernovas wherever it's pointed, but that would be just as pointless.

yeh once you bring Q into it the Federation wins hard
but deploying Star Destroyers is not nearly as difficult as you'd imagine it'd be given that due to their type of FTL travel times are virtually negligible

>star wars is ironically more consistent for its lack of relistic grounding
What do you mean by that? That it operates under an unspoken premise of "don't think about it too hard"? And the people who do think about it too hard end up inventing obstacle courses around black holes and FTL ratings that increase asymptotically with lower numbers, in a futile attempt to make sense of the movies' nonsense tech babble?

They're not virtually negligible when they have to scout out every little bit of space first so they don't flatten themselves against a shadow.
They'd have to fight more often than not, and they're not so powerful that they can just win outright.

So why have the good guys OR the enemies NEVER EVER EVER shot at a crate that the enemies are hiding behind on disintegrate to shoot at the guy on the other side, even if there's only one enemy?

It's not like they can't just beam down MORE phasers or even just pack spares. And if the guy shoots you you're dead, that's the end of it.

Phasers can disintegrate unarmoured people but have barely been shown to do anything to rocks or dense materials like body armour. It takes several seconds constant fire to disintegrate rock faces. You aren't going to land that on anyone unless they're already stationary.

the only thing i'm getting from this is that the only one capable of standing toe to toe with powerman is Brock Lesnar

>they're not so powerful that they can just win outright
That's a mighty big assumption. That's like saying biplanes can fight modern day jet fighters because they're "not so powerful they can just win outright".

There's also these little things called probe droids, which also travel at lightspeed and can be launched en masse to scout hundreds of planets all at once.

...

>They don't even have shields!
Spoken by someone who is a complete retard. Their shields are also strongest near the bridge fiy.

>60+ posts later
>still zero relevance to Veeky Forums
Why don't the mods do their fucking jobs?

Star Wars shields are much more powerful than Star Trek shields because Star Wars shields go up against Star Wars ships.
Federation Ship Phasers would have to be cranked up to maximum and threaten to explode just to be on par with a Star Destroyer's Turbo Lasers. Otherwise the Federation's ships would be essentially trying to blow up a tank with a fire hose.
given that, the Empire also jams transmissions. Who knows what the fuck that'll do to Teleporters other than make them non fucking functional.
>Star Trek has more consistency
Hey how's that galactic warp speed limit thing doing so warp space doesn't go fucking nuclear?
Federation wouldn't be able to stop the Tsunami that is the Empire with the sandbags that are its ships.
>better tech
>bigger guns
I disagree with you, but respect your point of view. Just know that sleekness of design does not equate efficiency of function.

Q is not an effective argument because it is likely the Q who caused the confrontation in the first place.

Shit bait, shit thread.

And get noticed en masse.
Now THOSE are some mighty big assumptions.
Jamming comms does nothing to transporters. Lasers are a technology that most races in Trek have abandoned for being shit compared to Phasers.

>one tactic I could see working would be to knock out imperial shields and then transport their now defenseless bridge crew directly into a Federation prison cell.

When has that EVER been used in the show?

About twice, when someone literally stole the command codes for a ship.

If it were so easy to knock out shields why aren't they hacking EVERYONE'S shields to teleport their crew over?

PROTIP: YOU HAVE TO LOWER YOUR OWN SHIELDS TO TRANSPORT PEOPLE IN AND OUT
PROTIP: LOWERING YOUR SHIELDS IN A FIREFIGHT WILL LEAVE YOU AS A SMOKING WRECK

>Why does metal melt at a lower temperature than stone?

You can knock out shields by shooting them.
But you're right about needing to lower your own shields.

>Lasers are a technology that most races in Trek have abandoned for being shit compared to Phasers
That's why star wars uses turbolasers, which exhibit as much likeness to lasers as phasers do to lasers, ie practically nothing at all.

>And get noticed en masse.

What's the federation going to do, sprout 20 fleets out its ass to protect all of those worlds at once? The federation doesn't even HAVE a couple of hundred ships.

>Turbo lasers are actually lasers
Apparently you know nothing! They just call them Turbo Lasers because it sounds cool.
And jamming comms, MIGHT do something, because there is the possibility they may also jam sensors! Sensors that would be able to get coordinates!
And if your going to make assumptions in a debate of which fictional army is going to win in a fight, it may as well be some big, thick, and out of control assumptions!

> The federation doesn't even HAVE a couple of hundred ships.
The federation has thousands of ships, depending on the era. They're just spread really fucking thin most of the time. And they have ground installations.
The klingons couldn't kill them despite being ruthless, the Romulans couldn't kill them despite having cloaking tech and instakill weapons, the fucking Borg couldn't kill them despite being immune to everything they could throw at them.
I doubt the Empire could just waltz in and win instantly.

>Star Trek energy shields can basically stop any normal space weapon and is pretty well ubiquitous on their ships.
So basically what you're saying is that the Star Wars crew would need a single elite agent to get inside the Star Trek's crew's ship and destroy it from within?

Gee, where could they ever find someone like that...

Big, thick, out of control assumptions means that swarms of quantum torpedoes smash right through everything and hit the Star Destroyers right on their bridges.
Or the protagonist captain and some redshirts sneak in and kill the Emperor.

power man is brock lesnar

Get inside how, exactly? Really, the exact same thing can happen in reverse. T

Please someone post the stats of the slave one which are far better than the entire enterprise E

Or the star destroyer that has the density of smoke?
Let's be real, all this nonsense is people throwing words and numbers around without thinking about what they mean. Which is also why it's dumb to start comparing those words and numbers.

>Teal'c, if these fucking Trekkies keep posting I'm gonna lose it

The difference between the two shows is that dr. Who is still running where as Stark Trek original got canceled after 3 seasons.

>Klingons were forced to sue for peace when they could no longer support themselves
>Romulans were never able to form a good enough keikaku before their government had another powerstruggle
>Borg got killed by future Space Tyrant and psychopathic monster Janeway who brought back future technology

Instant winning? No. Steam Rolling? yes.
Federation ships will literally be shaken apart from the inside out by the impacts of Turbo Lasers exploding on their shields.

>thousands of ships
So, let's see. Let's be generous and say 9000 ships.

Let's lowball the number of probe droids and say 200 of them.

So assuming you're going to use your entire fleet to do nothing but sit around and guard planets with, that's 45 ships per planet.

The empire can throw a million or more ships or whatever bullshit number that's in the technical manuals at them. This is the people with the industrial manufacturing capability where a small trading operation was able to make a moon sized battlestation. And there was another one made IN SECRET in a few years.

Not saying you're wrong in that this is silly, but when a single small ship is faster, stringer and sturdier, with better weapons and shields that the best federation vessel ever, well. Was star wars made by people who don't know shit? Yes, but the numbers are the numbers

> impacts of Turbo Lasers exploding on their shields
>their energy shields
>their projected energy shields
I don't think you understand how shields work in either setting.

If they throw that many at the Feds, then their own rebels wipe the floor with them even faster.
The numbers are inconsistent and rarely show what you're describing in either direction. There are numbers that show a Star Destroyer as being beaten by a modern prop plane with a single AA missile. There are also numbers that show feddie weapons as being able to crack planets at half-power. Neither of these sets of numbers are reliable.

Huurre durre durr
Furty-kay kan beat both
Durr

Damn straight.
Like how those quantum torpedoes will only do good until they run out of them, and that the empire always has more Star Destroyers.
Or that the Emperor totally sensed they assassination ahead of time and let himself be killed so he could awaken in a more youthful clone body.

Unless the Emperor is your Husbandu, in which case,

There is no Mercy

The numbers don't mean anything if people didn't think about them. The numbers also say that the Millenium Falcon goes "point five past light speed" which would make it take dozens of millennia to cross the galaxy.

Don't forget about the random godlike beings that are floating around near Feddie space. One wrong target and suddenly your entire fleet is standing on a planet being given a stern talking to by a glowy space squid in his bathrobe.

I know that when the Federation ships get hit with ANYTHING, their ships shake, and if they shake hard enough, panels, wires, and sparks all fly about like they're held in place by nothing but good intentions.

I think YOU don't know how absolute shit Star Trek shields are at stopping any sort of blast or shockwave.

A directed energy weapon isn't a blast or shockwave. It's a beam. Turbolasers do not explode in their target's direction.

Yeah, but in the Star Trek universe, every third farmboy isn't a mystical expert at infiltrating and exploding enemy installations.

It's strange how the godlike beings never once intervened in any of the conflicts except with a few tiny individual ships. Almost as if they didn't goddamn care about any of it.

That space squid in his bathrobe could really be from either series based on the description alone, I think.

But every member of Section 31, most members of Star Fleet Intelligence and many members of Star Fleet Security are.
They give a damn when you start trying to glass their planets.

So how come phaser fire makes bridge panels explode and kill the operators while the shields are up?

Is it because the bridge panels are designed to do that, or is it that they're high energy power shunts that blow out due to directed energy weapons to stop the ship blowing up or something?