/srg/ Shadowrun General - Attitude Edition

Hey /srg/, playing with a newbie group (both newbie players and newbie runners), and our fixer's just given us an extraction mission in LA. We have no idea where our target actually is. All we know is he vanished during the quakes, and traces of him have shown up from after then.

I've ended up being the equipment monkey, and other than some sort of aquatic transport, some chemsuits, some diving gear, some climbing gear, and a tazer in case the subject is uncooperative, is there any gear that's a must have in the LA Sprawl?

(We're still in Seattle if that matters, and we're playing 4e)

How do you guys run edge regen? Say a player has 3 edge and burns down to 2 and they want to buy it back up. Do you treat it add though they were buying it up to 4 or up to 3?
I've heard going with the second method would essentially mean that a player can just hover at 1 edge and spend 10 karma to buy it back up whenever they think they're gonna die, but also that the first method is to expensive.

>Some of the effects of goblinization also tend to be related to the systemic effect of anti-goblin racism especially when it comes to logic scores.
This is blatant lie pandering to Goblinoid specialist interest. Anyone arguing it is simply trying to institute affirmative action policies for goblinoids in order to gain their support, and there for, by definition, racist.

By raw going from 2->3 costs 15 karma. As to how you should handle it depends on how you handle edge burning if a burnt point of edge saves character from any bad situation than logging burnt point makes sense. If burning edge just prevents physical death, why not let people buy it up. 10 karma is not a small number.

Both concerns are valid. But staying at 1 Edge means you only get 1 reroll a day unless the GM is particularly generous, so it's not without its disadvantages.

I'd rather treat it as if you're buying it up to 3, and slap the player who tries to abuse the system if it becomes a problem.

>>/humanis/

Trog lives matter you fucking racist

I'm pretty sure you can record sim over trodes if you have all the other equipment.

If a player's burnt to 3, they buy as though they were at 3. Same with an Initiating/Submerging person buying back up to a rating they once had.

In general it's not going to be a super-big issue. It'll tend to be self-correcting and they won't have good edge.

Good edge can be all kinds of its own builds.

Considering how much time they spend killing one another, I sincerely doubt that...

I think if your players are burning Edge enough for that decision to matter, you might have some bigger problems.

There was a Shadowrun novel that had a young guy with a background in genetics who goblinized into a troll (Changeling). There were some personality changes because of his drastically different hormone levels, and his memories of advanced subjects were fuzzy (and had to be relearned), but he wasn't thirsty for troll slot or made simple. He still had a strong identity with his human form and retained his personality quirks for the most part. Did pretty well for himself being the smartest troll on the block.

>I'd rather treat it as if you're buying it up to 3, and slap the player who tries to abuse the system if it becomes a problem.

Burnomancers are not a real problem - they might look amazing for the first run or two, but they will quickly fall back behind other players even if they keep their edge at 1. There simply are very few rolls worth 5 karma that are not made with self preservation in mind.

This x100. Burning karma is incredibly wasteful and hard to replenish unless your GM gives out karma like skittles.

If you want to integrate a medkit into your armor clothing so that it can basically automatically treat you what would be a reasonable limit for the rating of the medkit? Rating 1-3 can fit in a pocket so it seems like it could be integrated into your armor clothing so that it pretty much handles itself especially if you have a biomonitor integrated into the outfit as well.

A medkit (whatever rating/model) requires 10 capacity to install.

Run & Gun lists its capacity requirement as 5.

Hrmm chummer says 5 capacity.

Indeed. I'm messing up Implanted Medkit and Armor-mounted Medkit here.

Ahh yeah that would make sense. Of course there isn't a ton of reasons to stick a medkit in your cyberlimb because for the most part you are going to want to use those capacity points to hide really dangerous shit.

Speaking of chummer does adding accessories to imaging scopes crash chummer 5 for anyone else?

I'm not sure why I'd want to load any vision enhancements onto a imaging scope except for the rare cases in which you are doing shit like firing around corners and you can't use you normal cybereyes/glasses/contacts.

I'm not using Chummer, but as for the second part, I always assumed your glasses/contacts/cybereyes don't provide most of their benefits (except flash reduction) when you're looking through the scope. Also, redundancy is a good security.

small question, I want to spec into shotguns of all kinds, but Remington Roomsweeper is primarily a pistol, right?

Yes, counts as a heavy pistol.

It always uses the Pistols skill, but shotgun rules apply to it.

Alright, I have a problem. My phone doesn't want to open the 5th ed rulebook in the pastebin. Phone says that the pdf is broken. I can open it fine on computer.

Does anyone have a link to working rulebook for phones?

Wow, it's the reverse issue with the judge shotgun in payday 2- Pistol classed as shotgun.

So what do you guys put into your ballistic masks?

Respirator 4 + Micro-transceiver seems like a natural and any visual enhancements you'd normally have on glasses but I'm trying to figure out something else nice to put on the mask.

I'm thinking of some Sensor functions like olfactory scanner + ultrasound but I'm afraid that might seem a bit cheesy.

The walls on that picture look exactly like some low-res textures from a 90's videogame.

Is that intentional? Because it's bothering the fuck out of me.

Flash Pack?
Bug Scanner?
Extra ammo?

Snacks?

You can't fit a duffelbag sized kit on your arm. Sorry. Best you can do is have a rucksack on you at all times.

Yeah radio scanner is definitely an option since it can double as a bug scanner.

Area Jammer would also be an option I guess in case you want to go completely loud when the shit starts to fly and you want to blind the fuck out of any security response.

I'm not the OP, but I think it's supposed to be a print-out of where every weapon is supposed to be hung.

This is why you take a handheld case and work it into the back area.

Rating 6 Medkits shouldn't be carried on the runs anyway. That should be reserved for being mounted in the GMC Bulldog so that the Van can start putting back together any gunshot wounds as the Rigger starts plowing through the chain-link fence as you get the fuck out of dodge.

Dunno. It's official Shadowrun art that was used for the cover of the 4e book Attitude.

>I'm not the OP, but I think it's supposed to be a print-out of where every weapon is supposed to be hung.

I guess it's a tapestry of some sort then. Guess that works. But goddamn, look at the top left corner, it's hideous.

I completely agree. Some niggers just seem to be completely ignoring reality and going 'b-b-but the RULES say that I can do it'.

If there's a drawfag present, he could scetch a character with a huge as fuck medkit bolted on his leg or something.

What I've always wondered is why can you so easily get a ballistic mask, yet ballistic helmets are all so expensive (Assuming the regular helmets are plastic or dare I say, steel)

I honestly like limiting manportable medkits to Rating 3 which basically encourages people to actually invest a limited amount of points into first-aid instead of going lolololol 12 Dice First-Aid bitches.

Yeah, that's exactly why I have a r3 medkit on the belt of my loli infiltrator. The rules say it's 'large pouch or fanny pack', so I imagine it's something of an IFAK size in real life.

R6 are man portable by raw, but they are briefcases not a hand held device. also 12 dice first aid isn't as good as you think once awakende, cybered, etc modifiers get involved since you lose 6 out of their 12 dice just to hit the treshold for any actual healing to happen.

Oversized duffle bags are man portable, but dragging one around might "slightly" limit your effectiveness.

And 12 dice is really easy to achieve with a R6, you just need 2 skillpoints (4 karma) and 4 log to do it.

When I say not man portable I mean not something that is built into a rolling briefcase or big-ass duffle bag because it's so fucking heavy.

Yeah if you are going on-site as Janitors and you can hide the medkit in a janitor or maintenance cart you are golden but otherwise I dislike having them being so common-place.

However a wheeled medical drone with a built-in medkit 6 that can run around after the PCs patching them up when they get shot the fuck up can be warranted in some situations.

The Security Response Squad of course is probably going to deploy a mobile medical assistant drone as well.

I'd say treat as going from two to three. Even with the "exploit" you've described having to pay ten Karma for a near-death experience isn't an insignificant penalty, especially if it happens more to one character than others it could create a serious power gap.

So what sort of stats should huffing paint give to characters?

I'm kinda thinking having a go-gang do the shiny and chrome routine would be pretty fun. Plus the idea of having a PC addicted to huffing paint would be pretty fun.

Oversized duffle bags are man portable, but dragging one around might "slightly" limit your effectiveness.
Only if you need 2 hands or have str 1. Tech is rather advanced in shadowrun. The book actually uses "Handheld Case" as wording.

>And 12 dice is really easy to achieve with a R6, you just need 2 skillpoints (4 karma) and 4 log to do it.
You misunderstand. 12 dice is what R6 medkit has w/o a medic operating it. And its crap.

Lets say we are healing a mundane cooperating human in good conditions and sufficent supplies (indors, dry, no distractions), that's a -1 penalty.
So now lets take average on that roll, 11/3=3.6. Than let's reduce that average by 2 hits (you need them just to get anything done, CRB 205). Resulting in whooping 1.6 wounds healed. Yay medkits.
Meanwhile a mage(12) or a trained medic (12+6) heal them for 4 and 3.6 respectively in the same time span. Yay medkits.

>Only if you need 2 hands or have str 1. Tech is rather advanced in shadowrun. The book actually uses "Handheld Case" as wording.

My street sammy puts a voice mask in her helmet that makes her sound like a man. It's difficult to tell what her gender is when she's wearing full body armor unless you look at her face, and the helmet covers up both her voice and face.

So Corpsec just assumes that the big cybernetic walking tank carrying a belt-fed machine gun is a man, and their APBs don't tell them to search for any women.

She picked up the habit in the military after some of her squadmates got pointlessly killed trying to protect/impress the one female, as their instincts told them to. She hates doing it but she keeps it up because it's great for concealing your identity.

Pic related is a random google image for "oversized duffle bag". Carrying one around is not hard if you are not a weakling. If you try gymnastics or melee with it it will become a problem sure, but otherwise I do not see your point. Also backpacks are a thing. You could twist encumbrance rules to apply here somehow, but I still don't see why you want to nerf medics.

>in the same time span
Just to quckly correct myself, this is not true, what I meant to say is the same wound, because 1 wound can only be assisted with first aid once, and only before magic is applied.

Just to note if you are wondering why the fuck is mage better at it - if the target is a sammy mages start losing dice twice as quickly as medics. If target is awakened however, mage wins over.

That is definitely right if you're using the optional Care Under Fire rules in Bullets and Bandages.

... Got any idea what a character's Command is?

Try something like this.

Voice mask is pretty cool I guess but as far as concealing gender that's not fet-fuel enough for my games.

I'm thinking of going full triage X with a ballistic mask + form fitting body armor + securetech PPP + mini-gun and ballistic shield

While we are waiting for the drawfag, could you point where does it say a medkit of any rating is huge as fuck? R3 fits in a pocket, R4 is a "handheld case", why exactly would R5 or R6 suddenly explode in size?

See
To get a better rating, interface to interact with the patient, and medical gear for all kinds of different emergencies, you need space.

It's the table on page 17 of Bullets and Bandages, part of the optional Care Under Fire rules.

And I still don't know what a character's Command is.

Doodled at work.

Good job user, I laughed.

The 'raw' really sells it for me, thanks.

i like dis

That's from the section of explicitly optional rules in a random splatbook that does a lot more than simply state (actually change) sizes of medkits.

Also that is probably more for 4e than 5e unless somebody can help me find a character's Command.

If you don't want to use the few reasonable additional rules the edition has to offer, you're more than welcome to ignore them. But understand that you're throwing realism out of the window by that point (which can be fine for the pinkiest mohawk game you can imagine).

Better medical kits don't necessarily mean you have to carry around a fracking surgical table with you. The highest ranking one could have a dermal stapler, bone glue, coagulation formula, sprayskin, and maybe some endorphins and an autodoc or something. That's enough to fit in a medkit sized whatever, and is certainly worthy of being rating 6.

Since we can't agree on what oversized means lets go off a conceal mod for it its between a bullpup assault rifle and a small drone per raw.

Great, now can you tell me the Command and Response of my Hermes Ikon with cold-sim?

It's important because I want to see if remote or jumped in is better for that device.

The -3 modifier wouldn't be for actually trying to hide the whole thing, it's more for hiding what it is for. You can't hide an oversized duffle bag on your person, that would be the -10/forget about it territory.

Those are the items that a normal R3-4 kit would have. You can only do so much with gauze, shears and things like quickclot. To get a bonus of 6, you'd really need to dig in deeper, and that's where the extra gear inside the pack come to play.

This is an actual medical duffel used in the real world. Again, you can handwave and suspend your disbelief even further, but that'd be your personal call as a GM.

You are concerned about modern standards of realism in a fantasy system that is set 60 years from now and features literal magic and incredibly advanced technology. If medkits that are not gigantic are pink mohawk, then I dread to imagine the color and hairstyle of things like airtanks that let you breathe for an hour per point of Capacity, or literal supercomputers that are the size of modern tablets.

Things in the future will be smaller. Miniaturization is a thing.

Also, anything past that, it's not really a medkit and it's more of a surgical kit. It only takes a complex action to use a medkit, so there's no way in hell you're going to preform surgical procedures in three seconds.

While I enjoy our medkit measuring contest. Let us return to the initial point. Why do you want to nerf medics? carrying around R6 medkit if you are not a medic is clearly impractical. Saviour medkits are way better at field healing of incompetent fools.

Also, what's the interval for the test to stop progressive damage and to remove wound penalties from non-progressive damage?

Because with a lower interval and some crash, it would make a Body 10 Troll Technomancer go a lot further than most if they can invest in some Biotech.

And if I can figure out what a Living Persona's Command and Response are.

Unless you are playing a Doc Wagon campaign then I suggest that playing a Healbitch is a bad role.

I don't see any reason why the healer can't just patch people up with Stim Patches and Trauma Patches and a rating 3 medkit until they get back to the van.

>Things in the future will be smaller. Miniaturization is a thing.

Just look at all those elf penises.

>Things in the future will be smaller. Miniaturization is a thing.

Oh yes, definitely. The bag in the picture would only count for a R2 or so medkit in the future.

I have no desire to overly nerf anything, but gear like that does take space. Nanobots is a way to circumvent the problem, but those are single use unless I've mistaken, and carry the danger of CFD shenanigans.

I want my player characters to plan out what kind of things they bring along for a run, and everything takes space. For example, a single assault rifle magazine takes as much space as a light pistol and weighs a similar amount.

And the problem is that medkits are usable by everyone, and usually only a single person in your party is able to cast Heal. One of the main reasons why you'd even want to bring a mage is because magical healing is extremely useful.

Being a regular medic in the sixth world is an effort in futility. Mages simply outclass them to death. There's also the mechanical fact that unless you go in to overflow or your GM is using those weird wound rules, there's never really going to be a time where you urgently need medical attention. It's not like bleeding is a thing or whatever in Shadowrun's system.

>It's not like bleeding is a thing or whatever in Shadowrun's system.
Bullet's and Bandaids my good chummer.

Isn't that the book that lets you be perma-pregnant thanks to bad editing?

I mean, it's my fetish, but still...

Honestly, even with the rules in B&B, it's only a thing if you take more than 5 physical in one shot.

The duffle bag measuring we've been doing for the past hour is from the same book.

>implying most of /srg/ don't basically run their games like it's cyberpunk Corruption of Champions

And let's be fair, barely anyone uses those rules (At least to my knowledge)

I don't even have a pregnancy fetish, but I'm interested in the exact phrasing and don't have the book. Care to copy-paste?

Technically, you stop having Pregnant (the negative quality) and gain some other negatives instead.

Because of the wording, it can be any combination of stuff that adds up to 15BP or 9 Karma. So you could take Preganancy again for no malus that you didn't already have before or Dependant (3), Daily Job (5) and Records on File (1).

>I want my player characters to plan out what kind of things they bring along for a run, and everything takes space. For example, a single assault rifle magazine takes as much space as a light pistol and weighs a similar amount.
Eh if you run that style of game it does make sense. Still think not letting people have an R5 in a backpack is BS but that's between you and them.
>And the problem is that medkits are usable by everyone, and usually only a single person in your party is able to cast Heal. One of the main reasons why you'd even want to bring a mage is because magical healing is extremely useful.
As shown above, R6 medkit on someone who is not a medic is a case of a waste of effort and money. Saviours might have limited uses, but they are way way more helpful.

>And let's be fair, barely anyone uses those rules (At least to my knowledge)
Frankly this is a clear cut case of catch 22, noone uses them because only medics would care, noone wan

>So you could take Preganancy again for no malus that you didn't already have
ts to play a medic because crb rules are meh.

So what you are saying is you really like sex and really hate condoms. Huh.

Having to buy off qualities with karma is pretty silly if you ask me.

>have Wanted
>plan an extremely difficult run to erase your bounty
>you succeed against all adds, congratulations! now give back the karma you owe

>have In Debt
>work your ass off to pay back the debt
>finally manage to secure a good amount of nuyen to pay it back fully
>hey that's wonderful, kid! now give us karma too or we're not going to take the money.

It says "suitable" quality, so you only take Pregnancy again if there's somebody to "give" it to you.

Also, interestingly, Pregnancy still gives a smaller hit to your physical stats that Dryad's Symbiosis.

It's mostly cause while it makes sense removing some qualities narratively, it would put players with such qualities ahead of players w/ ones that can't be interestingly resolved narratively and have to be simply bought off.

I am amused.

>Eh if you run that style of game it does make sense. Still think not letting people have an R5 in a backpack is BS but that's between you and them.

Fair enough, I do like realism in my games.

>As shown above, R6 medkit on someone who is not a medic is a case of a waste of effort and money. Saviours might have limited uses, but they are way way more helpful.

I think that's the original point. You do need actual skill to make use of the high rating madkit, so rev up those skillpoints. If you don't, you risk everything if your mage/dedicated medic goes down.

And another thing, you can use the kit for different purposes as well; I think a fine example of how the party got a lot of usefulness out of a r6 medkit is in the recent roll4it campaign on jewtube, they did everything from diagnostics to extracting cyber from a dwarf with a bad head case. You couldn't do that with a sub r5 medkit.

So yes, a saviour medkit is flat out better in saving a patient, but their general usefulness is somewhat reduced.

Here is the entry minus the table.

Yes, but then again, in debt and wanted are really debilitating qualities and they really do affect the game and its narrative. More than someone with neoteny and mood hair at least.

>I completely agree. Some niggers just seem to be completely ignoring reality and going 'b-b-but the RULES say that I can do it'.
That just means they'll switch over to the saviour medkit. Which they probably should be doing anyway.

>Saviours might have limited uses, but they are way way more helpful.
And a single 'use' gives 5 minutes of aid or thereabouts.

>I completely agree. Some niggers just seem to be completely ignoring reality and going 'b-b-but the RULES say that I can do it'.
I'd normally vouch for the reality side of things, but Shadowrun kind of sort of just ignores that? How armour and damage work is a very good example of that, really.