Warhammer 40k general

well they already feel different, perhaps a ranking system?

>mark of khorne, +1 attack. 5 points
>world eater legionarre, +1 attack, rage/counter, +1 ws. 8 points
>daemonkind; +1 attack, rage/counter, fleet, +1 ws. 10 points

Are Orks or Nids the worst codex? This is excluding the flying circus.

We need a CHICKEN ARMY.
Ideas, folks!
-Nids that mutated in the wrong direction?
-admech done bad?
-They aren't chicken, they are eggsquigs?
-Ministorum idiot mistook the troop transport Glorious light of the Emperor with the chicken transport Light of the glorious emperor, leaving Commissar Drudus with 12.000.000 chicken (-425 who have already been shot for insubordination). Still he figured out stuffing democharges onto them and sent them towards the nearest enemy is about as effective as the sorry ass recruits he would get otherwise.
-Some weird dark eldar mutagen virus that turned the 366th Castellan regiment into chickens, after Col Strajzi proudly proclaimed they won't chicken out against the invading dark eldar 2 months ago.
...

Why would you exclude something, dumbass

tempestus scions

Tough call, but I think I'd go for Nids. Even without Flyrants, they generally have better shooting and are more durable, and using Synapse can mitigate leadership issues.

Def not Nids. It would be Orks or CSM. Both are so awful its a toss up.

what they lack in options they make up for in sexiness

Real codizes only or you could also say assassins, who would simply get shot to shit

Making every unit receive a different effect from each mark, if possible even creating different "purpose" for that unit (obviously with a point cost even extremely different between the different units and the different marks).
Ex. Mark of Khorne makes Terminator attacks -1AP while the Mark of Slaanesh makes gives them +3A and +2I, making the former perfect against TEQ and the latter the nightmare of MEQ
Obviously this is just a stupid example that I made up on the spot that would be most likely overpowered unless you made it extremely costly

3 unique units out of 5 in the entire 'codex'? Doesnt count.

>muh 'real' codices
I will laugh when tempestus are stronger on their own than orks. Then who will have the 'real' codex?

CSM have:

>Better leadership
>Better initiative
>Better Ballistic skill
>Better guns
>Better melee weapon options
>Better psychic powers
>Invuln saves

What on earth do Orks surpass CSM other than being cheap?

>Better psychic powers
Boon of Mutation says hi

Oh gee, maybe because I don't want to play FMCs and including them makes the answer obvious? Go stick a poker up your ass.

Would you play with this deployment zone? If so how many points would be too much to make it balanced

>implying Orks psychic powers are good
Nice b8 m8.

At least Orks vs CSM, I've yet to lose to Orks with my CSM and I'm not even spamming turkeys or Vindicators for templates.

Oh no! There's one bad power on a table you don't have to roll on!

That completely invalidates the fact that you get access to Divination, Telepathy, and Biomancy while Orks are stuck with a single faction-specific table

To the user that was gonna start a pirate ork army.

Get a model ship roughly the size of a battle wagon, cut out the bottom and add a base that makes it look like it's just plowing through the ground when it "sails".

Tau. Other than riptides they have no good units.

If it's against anything but Eldar, Tau, other SM or AdMech, it doesn't need balancing.

Yep, that's a flimsy enough excuse to post the chaos boat again.

How the fuck does CSM get access to Divination?

Balestar doesn't count anymore because they raped the supplement.

sure? The Pile of Marines is a time honored and deadly tactic drawn straight from the Codex Astartes.

As with anything, army comp and mission type is going to have a larger impact than the deployment style will.

>Blasts for the bs2 army are bad

My Necron friend turned to me today and said "your Imperial Guard need a price hike" and went on to explain how veteran squads, lemans and sentinels all need a price hike.

Am I dreaming? Is this the land of the make believe?

>Balestar doesn't count because I don't want to take it

Really? You're unwilling to take an allied detatchmwnt for a sorcerer and 50 cultists?

Yeah, some lists got fucked over by the changes, but its still better off than most vanilla marine lists.

>But I can't take a Daemon prince

Ally one in. You've only gotta bring 10 cultists to do it.

You don't get to say that you don't get something because you personally don't want to go out of your way for it.

Your friend sounds like a real piece of shit.

-Transports for assault (LR is way too expensive)
-cheap is a big factor because much of the CSM suffers from being too expensive
-vastly better anti-air stuff
-multi wound models
-long range anti infantry guns as CSM only really have them in Heavy
-better mobs

-

>Better melee weapon options
no. The power fist is the same as a klaw, the chainfist as a killasaw, powerweapons are overpriced, leaving CSM with a few artifact weapons. Also they do not have a melee squad with meltaboms
>Better guns
argueable, CSM guns are generally overpriced and for long range your are stuck with heavy support.

I'm looking to start playing 40k, and the AdMech interest me greatly, wondering if their start collecting box is good on the tabletop and price wise?

Your friend sounds like the kinda guy to spam doom scythes on the field in a friendly pick up game and call it fair

CSM doesn't need a melee squad with meltabombs, because they can just take normal fucking meltaguns

Just having the option for melee weapons that actually have AP and aren't unwieldy is nice

Price wize, all of the start collecting boxes are a deal to some degree.

don't have to is not exactly right. One o the problems of thousand sons squads is that their aspiring sorceror does have to roll on that table.
(So do demon princes and sorcerors with Mark of tzeentch) and its not like the rest is good either.

it's good. And you need to to buy 2 (3 if you want Knights) codices so you need to save what money you can starting out.

7/10
2guns and I would accept is as a forgefiend, otherwise as bastion with quadgun

No, that's decent.

But we aren't talking about how good the powers are on their own. We are talking about how they are COMPARED to what Chaos has.

And Chaos sure as fuck has better psychic powers available than Orks. Arguing otherwise is completely retarded.

boon is better then you think. a s4 ap- means it's not doing much

Doombolt is alright.

he plays deathstar crons with an emphasis on getting his RP+. It's hard explaining to him how guard are underpowered when I'm doing a good job anyway. He just won't listen.

I don't know what to say.
Just to suggest you inflict pain on him in some edgy way. But you can't say that without sounding edgy.

Huron's familiar and even then it's not guaranteed to get divination

>pay 15 points for mark of tzeentch and waste warp charges for a chance to hurt yourself and roll on a bad table that will 90% of the time do nothing for you (oh boy, admantium will vs. tau or +1 BS on my bolt pistol sergeant)

But you don't have to take thousand sons either. You don't have to take MoT on any psyker.

Having bad psychic powers doesn't invalidate your good ones, while Orks don't even get an option.

guard arty just counter his shit well. maybe he should change tactics.

Thanks, but I'd rather not risk killing my already expensive champion for the chance to roll on a random table that MIGHT be useful depending on what the squad is meant to do.

when the dark gods give you lemons just be thankful it's just orange flavor. but you both have a point, no one but chaos and orks have powers that will hurt them.

Meanwhile, Orks are taking several of those whenever they fail leadership tests, and don't even have good armor to deal with it.

got a pask-centric list that does really well actually, combined with arty it's not a shabby affair.

I'm just trying to let him know that if I want to play his fluffy lists full of character and special jazz I need to play a highly competitive lists to keep up.

If he was to play more competitively I'd be fucked.

>the FAQS fuck your army hard

>sobHATE.jpg

Fingers still crossed for Friday.

the truth is, both codizes need a lot of tuning. You can say you don't need to take X but then we could run through most of the codex, as it is only barely held together by a few nice units.
The real comparison
walkers: Yours don't have good shooting and never reach melee, so do ours
troops, other than cheap objective holders, you have overpriced cannonfodder, so do we
you have units that could smash alot in melee, where they will never be, so do we
your shooting is rather embarrassing compared to the real shooting of the enemy, so is ours
....

>IG can bring a BS4 plasma gun for 21 points
>Marines does the same for 29 points

Just playing devils advocate, but I can understand why a lot of people think this way. Most of the stats mean dick when you are shooting, so WS, S, and I, and even Ld, means fuck all, so the 8 point difference is simply +1T and 3+ armour instead of 5+ armour, and in a fight between these two models, they both hit on 3s and wounds on 2s without armour.

It is a mathhammer issue, where people look at shit in a vacuum, when that is not how balance works. It's just a lack of perspective that makes people say stupid shit like this.

It is, however, also fairly stupid to not see WHY people think this way. It should be fairly obvious, considering how much people here complain about the 3+ armour save never mattering.

Remember, you have the benefit of allies in all shapes and forms. If you have the spare cash burning a hole in your wallet consider getting some grav-cents or maybe a knight and introduce him to the D. I'm sure he'll love removing models without getting any save of any kind when that monster hits him.

I did not realize it was actually that big, thanks for the advice boyz

gonna be a proper prick, get the skyhammer formation: 8 grav and 2 combi gravs combined with some assault troops too.

Nerf that ya cunt.

You should stop using that Mega link, it is a bit outdated unorganized and it smeels.

>so the 8 point difference is simply +1T and 3+ armour instead of 5+ armour

Plus ATSKNF, which is pretty huge. Arguably it covers the bonuses from Chapter Tactics as well - IG have Orders, but those are reliant upon another unit activating them, whereas CT's are always in play.

goddamn I want one bad.

Pirate ork user here.
Any model you recommend for the conversion?

>walkers

People regularly use double maulerfiends to decent effect. 12" move and 5+ invuln helps a lot, and they eat tanks.

>troops

We can get Plague marine and noise marines in addition to cultists. We have a lot of troop options and some of them are better than just cheap objective holders

>shooting

BS 4 vs BS 2, or 3 if you're lucky. CSM has ignore cover guns, melta, high AP shooting that doesn't require rolling a dice. CSM, for all their randomness, have average shooting. Which is much better than Orks garbage shooting.

...

Bulldog dragon is pretty cute.

Provide a better one.

Pretty unlikely.
I play SW, so the options that may be negative for me are only three:
>No new stats for Claws, Scouts and Dreads. That would suck, but I would be in the same situation of before, so no real change
>TWC with fist/hammer are S9. Like that really makes any difference. I wouldn't ID SM bikes or Warbosses, but my meta is casual enough to not make that really count also it's really unlikely that they would change that way, since the FAQ for the 5th edition codex said that it was S10
>Some more general change that would fuck many other armies other then mine, so a trouble shared is a trouble halved

However at the same time I can't really think of ways they could buff my army, except by doing what the first point suggest or making Wolf Guard more similar to Veterans and Assault Termies in point cost
Only recently I have found out that the Vanguard Veterans spend only 5 points for a power weapon and that they're double claws termies are 13 points cheaper then my termies. What the hell

>day 80, the papercut outs have accepted me as one of their own

I'm pretty sure this has been done plenty of times in the past, but vote please

strawpoll.me/10058025/r

I would like to get at least 100 votes

>CT's are always in play.
Depends on the chapter tactic - not all of them affect shooting.

And as I said, it's a dumb argument. Of course a veteran guardsman looks undercosted from a purely shooting perspective with certain loadouts. Because you are ignoring a fuckton of shit that the Marines have, and NEEDS to pay for. But you also have to recognize WHY people think they look undercosted, because as the plasma gun example shows, in certain cases, there really are no difference between a veterans guardsman and a space marine, despite a pretty significant difference in cost.

And it is pretty important to know this shit, because it makes it a lot easier to bitchslap the whiners with the fist of truth.

What's the next codex that's coming out? Or has GW put the brakes on 40k so they can unfuck themselves?

Played a casual game with my Ultramarines pitted against a friends Elysians.
Terminator Librarian w/ SS + Stave
Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Gun Plasma Cannon Razorback
Tactical Squad w/ Power Fist, Combi-melta, Meltagun, Lascannon, Infernum Razorback
Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon 2 Chainfists
Lascannon Predator

vs

Company Command w/ Vox caster, Regimental standard, Plasma gun, Carapace armour
Valk w/ Heavy Bolters

Platoon Command w/ Vox caster, Meltagun

Infantry Squad
Accatarn w/ Aux GL for Sergeant, Vox caster, Grenade Launcher

Infantry Squad
Accatarn w/ Aux GL for Sergeant, Vox caster, Grenade Launcher

Special Weapons Squad w/ Meltaguns

Veteran Team
Accatarn w/ Aux GL for Sergeant, Vox caster, Grenade launcher, Plasma gun, Grenadiers
Valk w/ Heavy Bolters

Veteran Team w/ Shotguns, Vox caster, Flamer, Meltagun, Forward Observers

Tauros Venator w/ Lascannons HK Missiles

Tarantula Sentry Gun

56 Guardsmen against 26 marines. We were trying a variation of the tallarn special rule where his units of BS3 rerolled 1s to hit for lasguns. It seemed to help them a bit, especially considering how marines get a far superior reroll perk for no cost at all.
The secret tactical objectives mission was pretty fun, I won at turn 5 6-4 but we decided to ignore that the roll didn't allow to continue due to things heating up in the centre of the table with the Terminators facing down most of the guard. About 16 guardsmen and 1 valk lived to turn 7 with the marines having only a single terminator, 5 tactical marines and the predator left. He won the game at the bottom of turn 7 7-8. Good times. Anyone had a good game recently?

Do you turn the ghostkeels side on when your opponent is judging TLOS to them?

One of things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong here.

We don't know, but we think it's going to be the combined admech book

And yet they all belong in the trash.

I would say, only one of the things does belong there

>Day 80. A brief existential crisis has led me to develop an extra dimension from the paper thin cardboard cutouts around me."

13 point warriors can blow up a landraider

Guard are undercosted.

ok bud

based sicarius

With, what, 54 shots? So either they fired 60 warriors at it (i.e. 780 pts) or they fired 30 warriors at 12 inches. 780 pts of shooting should kill just about anything, and if they killed it 12 inches away it did its job already.

Somehow all of this artist's work ends up looking the same.

mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

all of the guns in that image look really fucked, like the marine directly to the right of the sergent is that a bolter? a plasma gun? one of those volkite rifles? and what the hell is going on with that plasma pistol

I'm not even sure who it is, but I'm looking for a decent company to make a poster out of this image for me to go with my other 40k posters in my hobby room.

You can get 60 shots out of two warrior squads in arks in rapid fire range, thats 470 points.

Still, it better kill something that costs 230 or so points.

yeah, he's not the best but at least gw is done with him. he did maybe 5/8 works

At least it does not look like that sterile nu-gw cheapo copypasta stuff we are seeing more and more of

I'm more worried about the dreadnought on the right.

>a cup of piss is better than a pile of shit!