Warmahordes General /whg/

>Fear: The changes in Choir that no longer buff to-hit kill the Menoth gun line by just making it too inaccurate.
All the jacks will get a free focus. Just use it to boost to-hit and there isn't an accuracy problem.

Any recommendation for good sources of battle reports? Specifically Menoth ones?

Honestly... I have always liked the goats.

I have always felt that the goat heavies have had interesting designs. They were all built to be power attack machines of one type or another and I kind of like that design philosophy for them.

I've always felt they are underutilized really. The Shadowhorn has 11" base where he can move to an area, over top of shit, and doublehand throw something important out for your army to kill. As a skorne player, the Gnarlhorn always seemed like a weaker but faster Gladiator who is a great assassination tool and can really slam/follow up onto shit your enemy doesn't want to die. Also Bounding seems like a legit animus.

I could see boosting their dmg output a bit but I've always liked the way they were designed. They just aren't the typical "smash my heavy into your heavy to kill it" model. Unless of course you are thinking about the Riphorn who is actually amazing. I don't know why nobody takes that guy.

>I don't know why nobody takes that guy.
Same problem all Circle heavies have, he's not a Warpwolf Stalker.

That's kind of my point though is, I hope that is enough to compensate. Before Menoth jacks typically DID boost to hit anyway and still missed a good portion of the time and Menoth wasn't winning anything prizes for range output.

Menoth didn't have a problem giving out focus before. Most of the time, our casters job was to hand out focus for shit because Menoth casters don't usually have tons of spells worth casting every turn.

If the jacks output are lowered by accuracy but our casters still have nothing to cast in the new edition, the extra focus just kind of sits around because we got nothing to cast anyway. I guess we'd just have to take MORE jacks and fill it out with volume of attacks.

I hope you get my point. If they are taking away that range accuracy but just replacing it with something we had already, it's not a net neutral, it's still a net loss and it;s not like Menoth jacks were (pardon the pun) lighting the world on fire despite being genuinely good jacks.

So I am just saying, I hope it gets compensated for somewhere else. If Menoth jacks loose the range accuracy but gain a way to get pathfinder reliably, then they can compensate with more melee jacks who have suffered horribly because, despite being real good, dudes like the Avatar and Templar aren't taken because they get shut down by trees. Basically erasing them from certain matchups.

>the Cleanser UA
I want them to change it into a solo that can still make flame walls

All Menoth jacks are getting +1 MAT. PP is obviously looking to make Menoth jacks more melee oriented.

I'm assuming the mantle of ranged jacks is going to get handed to Cygnar.

Meanwhile I'm over here playing Khador wondering if even a free focus will make our jacks worthwile outside of WJ point filler.

I actually think Circle players get trapped into the "porting X to X" mindset sometimes.

If you got someone with a spd boost, you could just charge a Riphorn into an enemy, bulldoze through some shit to a heavy and beat it's fucking shit in. Sometimes lateral threat range is fine.

Then again, I AM a Skorne player.

Honestly, I love the goats and use them whenever I can. I just hope they expand power attacks and make the current ones more coherent. That was why I initially played Trolls and loved the Mauler so much. It's like a Riphorn that has an animus that matters. Increasing all the goats to 1" melee is going to help them in a big way already.

Of course the Stalker is held as the gold standard, but in truth I don't like using it as much and find myself wishing I used the other heavies more. Maybe I'll get a chance in Mk3

I had a similar idea of just letting it be able to make the wall plus still letting the unit make the AOE cloud. That way it lets the Cleansers cover a huge board space against infantry.

That is a cool idea though. I think the Flame Wall as an idea is hugely under used.

If I can keep pic related I'm happy

>That's kind of my point though is, I hope that is enough to compensate. Before Menoth jacks typically DID boost to hit anyway and still missed a good portion of the time and Menoth wasn't winning anything prizes for range output.

>RAT8-9 Jacks(9-10 Under Sevvy)

>Boosting to Hit

Yeah. I just hope it's not a "we want to focus more on melee jacks" but still don't let them get around the major thing that was preventing Menoth players from taking melee jacks in the first place.

As for Khador, I don't know. I am desperately hoping they get a Rat buff. Khador is so fucking weird. They have so many jacks with good guns but the shittiest accuracy and no real accuracy buffs worth a shit (I'm looking at your Greylords).

I super want Khador jacks to be base RAT 5 at least and for their Character jacks with guns (Behemoth) to get RAT boosts. That and/or I hope Khador gets some kind of REAL buff or debuff unit/solo to help their jacks.

If Greylords could, say, mark a model/unit that let your army hit them easier or debuffed their Def, it would be great. If something could "tune up" your jacks to give them additional die to hit, it would be cool.

Khador jacks biggest problem is accuracy. If Choir is loosing their to-hit buff, I hope Khador gets it.

Rat 7, 8 under Sevvy. Just because we had Reckoners doesn't mean we always have Flare on what we're trying to hit.

Also, even being Rat 8, you'd be surprised how much you miss. And, again, it's not like Menoth was really winning big because of those accurate guns.

Legion still had Menoth beat simply because they could shoot AND were fast AND could go over terrain AND had decent spells to cast AND even better Fury/Focus efficiency.

Menoth denial is honestly not a huge factor right now except for Harby/Errants.

Menoth is stagnant. Nothing is moving it forward and they are perennial mid-carders. Not a "great" faction but not a "bad" faction.

I love how the behemoth is rat 4 even though it has a whole cortex dedicated just to the bombards.

>If Greylords could, say, mark a model/unit that let your army hit them easier or debuffed their Def, it would be great.
They already kind of have that. Ice Cage has a cumulative -2 DEF.

But the thing is, with magic ability 7, the shit you want to drop the DEF on they won't hit anyway.

Now if only it had eyes dedicated to that Cortex.

Aiming.

It's called aiming.

Vigilant buff when?
Make Argus great again.

Hopefully they will at least give Feral some usefull animus.

>play Khador
>jacks too slow to make it far enough up the board on turn 1 to aim on turn 2
>even if they aim it only brings RAT up to 6

Life is suffering.

>eMorty
Sorry chap, but it was confirmed in the NQ that eMorty was a slip up: it isn't habbening anytime soon.

from the khador forums:

>So as some of you may know we have two senior pp staff at kingdom con. I got to play two games with them today!!!!! Great times and fantastic reps for their company.
>It would have been very rude to ask them about specific spoilers but i did ask them what they were trying as a first goal to accomplish with big red in mark 3.
>What they said was that they found out that arm 20 just isn't that a great. The. Trick is that they didn't want the game to devolve into a 15 round slug fest with jacks taking a point of damage a turn. Mk3 for big red is in big part trying to find that balance so we can be the tough hard hitting axe to face faction.

yep, you're not seeing the problem because you're not a devout menite.
The problem is that everyone gets a free focus, so menoth can only be as accurate as they used to be IF they use up that free focus.
Other WJs from other factions, with higher base stats can now also use that free focus.

So menoth jacks used to be bad, but were buffed to awesome
in mk3 menoth jacks are bad, and become average with the choir buff

Unless of course the buffs have been spread out a little more evenly in the faction, and the accuracy buff is elsewhere?

>Vigilant buff when?
implying that the Vigilant needed one.
Of course if PP is dishing out buffs, then hell yeah I'll have a buff on the Vigilant too plz !

i hope they nerf the stalker into fluffy puppy mode so that other beasts actually have a chance to shine.

PLAYABLE

MAN-O-WARS

WHEN.

Trying to get any info out of PP staff is akin to drawing water from a stone.
This contractually obliged must be pretty harsh if they slip up, maybe something like "your children will be fed to wolves"

Yes of course it needed and it NEEDS. Give 16 S+P damage on fists lol. No really buff his fists and give him Devout's stuff.

It's been said that manowars are going to be staples this edition

You know RAT5 is pretty bog standard for a jack, right?

It's no worse than 90% of the ranged jacks in the game.

LaughingHunters.png

MKIII MoW and Kossites (yes, fucking KOSSITES) will be cancer as fuck.

>Skorne
>Hopes
We aren't the worst non-Minion faction
>Fears
We are still the worst non-Minion faction

> What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?
>Khador
GIVE ME GOOD MEN O WAR AND GIVE THEM TO ME NOW!

> What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?

Circle:

Hopes: Nerf Goatvahna so we can get decent troops, tweak Moshar enough to keep him competitive, fix Grayle entirely, sweet Jesus, and pls gib ranged support caster. Argus fixes would be good, too. I really just want some better troop support. War wolf as a lesser would be pretty dope, too.

Fears: Ravagers remain crap, Skinwalkers get nerfed, eKromac gets toned down.

>> What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?
Our casters actually offer different play styles our jacks don't be shit for once.

...What faction?

>CoC
They get pretty much any nerfs. They're already something of a balancing act between good / bad and with every faction getting what used to be their gimmick I see them losing lots of power already. The Foundry nerf doesn't help big I'm willing to let it slide since it makes sense.

Also fix Perforators

Kossites being good? well thats totally awesome.
Bet its khador.
Two ley-lines to your druilidic house, sir.

They're going to get nerfed to utter shit. Plus they won't get to run jacks at all.

Khador makes me sad, because they have objectively the coolest looking 'jacks in the game, and a lot of them are pretty decent, but they don't have a lot of 'jack casters.

I don't know, Errants loosing Weapon Master just doesn't make sense. Every Single Exemplar Model that isn't a warnoun (looking at you Mikael) was one Weapon Master attack.

>What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?
I play Legion, so I get the feeling I might be seeing some nerfs coming my way.
eLylyth is definitely on the chopping block. I can only hope that p/eVayl can transition without getting nerfed, but I've pretty much accepted that Machinations of Shadow in its present state is going to be no more.

That being said, I kind of feel like Legion already played like how PP intended every other faction to play: big emphasis on the battlegroup, lots of beasts, infantry usable but rarely spammed. Hopefully the new edition leaves us relatively unscathed and ends with us getting some new tools to keep us competitive.

It's not that the stalker needs a nerf (although it'll get one), it's that every other beast aside from it, Gheto, and Gorax need a buff.

I mean I already can say with some certainty they're not gonna get worse really but I think oddly enough we're getting a boost in the form of volume of attacks. I mean the Grolar is gonna probably get D3 shots and maybe that wonky use a focus to buy more shots rule. The Decimator now gets two shots without spending focus and the Destroyer...is there? I mean he he can at least boost the shot now. If we're lucky they'll bump its AOE effect to 4inch or something.

True but if all three or two and a solo with it hit that's a DEf5 model that needs to shake that effect. Honestly, Im fine with magic ability seven as it makes them middle of the road in that they are able to Ice shotgun most infantry blobs that get close and can at least slow down or flat out halt something big and scary so our jacks can get some solid hits in.

You could have said the same about Banes.

Every single Bane model was a Weapon master...until MKIII.

I'm honestly not too worried about Legion.

There's still a few people around that think Legion is the Hordes Cryx, but it didn't warp the meta to force you to play around them like Cryx did. Checking out some of the big name tournaments you'll find Legion making good placings, but Circle places at about the same rate.

I feel like Legion's nerfs are going to mostly come from broad rule changes than specific models getting the nerfbat.

I do hope Nephilim become more viable because I always thought those guys were pretty cool.

They're not all getting +1 MAT. They corrected themselves literally 10 minutes after that was posted in the forums. No menoth jack will be less than MAT 6, but only a couple are getting bumped up to 7.

Bane riders beg to differ

Time to buy a guardian

It's the Guardian chassis only. Still, that gives a Mat7 blessed jack with a shield and innate spell immunity as well as a Mat7 reach jack with powerful charge and crit pitch (and is also an arc node). Neither are going to be bad by a long shot.

>What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?
>Cryx

I just want a strategy that isn't "spam more dudes." I'm fine with the general swarm mentality of the faction, I just want some more 'jacks on the board.

Thankfully, it's looking like I might get what I want.

>What are your hopes/fears for your faction/caster in Mk3?
>Skorne
I want warlocks to be diversified in playstyle. At present all you can do as Skorne is apply army to face and hope for the best. The only real exceptions are 1) Mak3da the super solo, 2) Rasheth the spell slinging titan spammer, and 3) Mordikaar who can actually play a control game relatively well.

I also want infantry to be buffed. Nihilators and Incendiarii are accidentally countered too easily, and those models can't fall back on stats. I'd like Nihilators to go from 13/13 to 14/12, and Incendiarii to gain a point of armour because they're supposed to be heavily armour and 15 doesn't feel like enough in that regard.

Beasts I'm fine with. Feel free to bump up Karn's cost, but leave it at that because fiddling with his statline or abilities might just make him garbage. Imagine him losing Sidestep. Just don't touch the Bronzeback.

I think it'd be reasonable to have Cataphracts go up to arm 16 or 17. And similarly, all of our infantry needs to be looked at. There is a reason we ran Nihilators, Cataphracts, and Minion auxilliaries: our other options just got slaughtered before they could get there, were too slow, lacked threat range, and/or couldn't hit reliably. At least Nihlators could maybe get a few good tough rolls, deliver 2 or 3 guys at mat7, and still get a lot of work done.

This problem with our infantry is honestly why I've been playing Zaal2's tier list. It offsets Immortals weaknesses (spd4, mat6, false synergy with Ancestral Guardians) and lets you deliver your army mostly intact with the feat while also maintaining a good scenario and attrition game. He is a delivery mechanism, but you can still surprise people with good spell assassinations and just not dying; give him a try if you have the models. There have been several games where I've tabled people and lost maybe 15 Immortals. I can only see him getting stronger in mk3 with the changes to UA rules and now being able to collect souls from Immortals.

Agonizer is probably going to get adjusted too, especially since it's a lessrr beast. At least it should be able to be used by casters who couldn't fuel it previously. Probably won't deny focus allocation though.

I disagree concerning Molik. He's strong, but our current options for him mean that the wrong spell or ability could make his hit-and-run or assassination game too strong. Additionally, I think Fate Walker limits how our casters can be designed because being able to walk 6+ inches back after applying buffs/debuffs/etc. innately makes our casters play a lot safer. I'd rather Fate Walker get removed, give Molik Sprint and a different animus, and instead increase our front line caster's fury, stats, and survivability.

>Muh infantry delivery
I've recently been toying with the idea of running Naaresh's No Pain, No Gain list largely because it lets you bring Nihilators to your opponent's face really fast. Nihilators die to a breeze anyway so using Iron Flesh to get them to 16/13 is better than Defender's Ward putting them at 15/15 to me. I just wish Naaresh himself wasn't such a jack-of-all-trades, or at least had reach so Cyclone felt like it could be used offensively rather than serving as notSprint. Actually I only need two Nihilators units to get the easy tier 4. Damn shame you can't bring Tyrant Zaadesh since Reptile Hound spam with Tag Team is brutal. Put Enrage on half a dozen dogs and watch them chew through heavies on feat turn with PS14+4d6 on 3 attacks, then not die to infantry next turn because +3ARM and a lot of boxes for their cost.

God damn I'm getting erect, my next purchase might just be 4 more dogs and another unit of Nihilators. I'll make sure to scream LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR at opportune moments.

>Legion didn't warp the meta to force you to play around them like Cryx did

Tell that to Circle and Cygnar players.

>No Pain, No Gain
Proper NPNG or improper?

WarGamerGirl just uploaded Menoth v. Khador an hour ago. Check her channel for more.

Tier 4. But the problems I'm seeing are that 1) Nihilators either get shot off the table or rebound off self-sacrifice or something dumb, and 2) as much as you have a lot of Handlers, you want a LOT of beasts, especially Reptile Hounds. And outside of feat turn nothing can really crack heavy armour.

No pain is full memelist, as is Naaresh.
Get spiky dice and have fun, if you get shot off the table it's clearly BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO PROPER HOKSUNE

Not sure about Menoth specifically, but Advanced Maneuver's channel is pretty good.

I mean, if you want to nerf the faction into an unplayable mess go ahead.

The Stalker isn't too good, everything else is too shit.

it is a mk2.5 game?

btw, anyone experimented with the stopgap rules?

I don't know what mk2.5 is but she said on the forums it was her last mk2 report before mk3.

miniwargaming is a good channel too

>I don't know what mk2.5 is

Basically it's just incorporating the so far spoiled mechanics from Mk3.

I'm going to try the new jack focus rules and 1 inch reach along with premeasuring with a friend of mine later today.

My friend is a fairly new player who bought into the idea that the game would be more jack focused, so he bought a lot of light jacks for his Ret army based on another friend's advice who is pretty terrible at the game.

I think at least using these rules he can play more of the army he thought he was playing, even if he was somewhat misinformed.

>I don't know what mk2.5 is

>Standard game sizes are 25 and 40. All casters get +10 WJ/WB points.
>Pre-measuring is permitted.
>All models are considered to have Fearless.
>Power Up and Spirit Bond are in effect.
>Skill tests are automatically passed.
>Tough doesn't work if you're knocked down.
>Destroyed jacks don't create wreck markers.
>You can use new cards if available. For PC, use Mk3 PC / 2, rounded up.
>Non-reach heavies all go to melee RNG 1.
>You can use new rules / stats, if known. e.g. Test out Morghoul2 with the new feat.
>No MK2 theme forces are allowed.
>You must be completely within a terrain piece or a cloud to get the relevant cover/concealment/elevation benefits.

>Tough doesn't work if you're knocked down
Wait so that's the big change Troll players are whining about? That they can't RNG their way out of trouble?

The real complaint is that a lot of troll models are bad for their points because they have native Tough. Troll players are probably grumbling and assuming that it won't get readjusted in some form or fashion because of the change

most troll units will probably get at least half a point drop (1 pt in MK3 point system) to compensate.
most stuff is getting readjusted in one way or another.

Oh I totally agree that PP will do something. But that's why they're whining.

So basically, pKreoss is going to buttfuck Troll players with ease.

I'm worried that they're going to give Kreoss the pSorscha treatment and make him rely on sight.

highly unlikely.

Check out Advanced Manuvers on youtube, they only sometimes make mistakes.

I really don't care for how she edits her videos. I prefer static top down view

Trolls still have a bunch of Steady models, Janissa, Runeshapers, Kriel Warriors with UA, burning Fire Eaters, drunken Borka1, Gargantuans, everything under Sure Foot.... Assuming they're still Steady and there's no Purification to turn off Madrak's Sure Foot or fire on Fire Eaters.

I imagine the UAs will grant no sleeping on the jerb

I can go either way on camera placement as long as the battle report doesn't have background noise.

>Other WJs from other factions, with higher base stats can now also use that free focus.
Ah, yes, you'll be so worse off than RAT 4 Khador.

>Khador
>jack caster

Khador has a jack caster.

Oh wait, you mean one that can run warjacks well, not one that is literally a warjack.

I mean, if they have a bunch of Griffons and eVyros it can be solid.

>Khador
>Needing to Shoot Things
Excuse me Speed 4 arm 19 less boxes and lack of pathfinder.

But I also Don't really care about the Choir Nerf they were an auto include in ever list, except maybe Kreoss2 CoS Tier.

I'm curious to see how something like this will play in mk3.

>Kommander Harkevich, the Iron Wolf
>Behemoth
>Conquest
>War dog
>Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 5 Grunts)
>Great Bears of Gallowswood
>Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts)
>Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
>3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers
>Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
(49/50)

>Harkevich

that heavily depends on what Hark is doing in the new edition.

I really hope they get rid of fortune on him. It's the most meaningless spell he has

OK WICH ONE OF U DID THIS?

hey guys, i'm sure you get this question LOADS so i won't write an essay here, but could anyone explain the playstyles of the races to me, or link to a resource that does? i'm interested only in warmachine armies (robots > monsters you feel?)

It's meant to be the RAT buff for the ranged jacks, so I doubt it.