Guilty Pleasure Systems

I love 4e, run 4e, and don't count it as a "guilty pleasure." If anything it's my go-to system. Then again, as the forever GM actually running games, I have some more choice in what system I get to play.

If it's obscure enough that nobody's actually played it or developed a venomous dislike of those who have, you can slide by. Riddle of Steel comes up every now and then, for instance, but nobody's ever played it and it's not mentioned often enough to reach GURPS tier reeeee, so people just ignore it.

I constantly get flak for defending From Another Time, Another Land.
As far as second editions go, it's such a good improvement that I wish more people would give it a try.
If only the character generator was updated... it made the game so much more digestible...

I might could just try to write one myself.
Most of the generation is random, and it would make for some fun threads.

The game will never overcome the reputation the first edition has.

By your definition of guilty pleasure, Nechronica counts. Or would, if enough people knew Nechronica existed and what it entailed.

You know, 4e is a great game for it's purpose, it's a brill tactical combat game.

I think WOTC would seriously benefit from rebranding 4e as like... D&D action/combat/tactical edition or something and continuing support, maybe make a few tweaks to the system as they go.

Make it something like hero quest, have a big set with several maps/boards, a ton of miniatures and sell new campaign/board sets to expand the game.

4e could have been literal ambrosia from the heavens, and it would have run into the same problems unless it was another OGLd20 game. It might havbe gotten away with being as divergent as SW Saga, but that's about it. The unique cocktail that was 3e and the OGL dominating the market to an unprecedented degree at the exact same time that internet usage crossed the tipping point was too powerful and sticky. Hell even 5e had to be like 80% 3e to survive the residual effect 1.5 decades later.

I know this gets thrown around a lot so it loses meaning but.
3.5 really is a cancer on TTRPGs.

Super-micro games like Risus and Lasers And Feelings are inoffensive enough.

You know what made 4e great for me? Gamma World. It's the D&D-for-the-sake-of-D&D stuff that drags 4e down. Mostly the bloated feat system (of all the things to take from 3.5...), but the gear being hewed down into a small handful of categories is great.

Granted, the card-based, booster-pack-based stuff was and is a bit lame, but it's still an enjoyable game regardless.

Could you be more vague please?

I KNEW /some/ of tg would come around to 4e eventually. FUCK it's taking forever, though.

3e was shit. Still is and nothing can change that. Agency over arbitration every time. Every edition, they at least tried to go forward.

>Every edition, they at least tried to go forward.
5e exists, you know?

Probably not, all things considered. But in seriousness, if you'd like an explanation, the idea is to play emotionally unprepared little girls turned into twisted undead abominatons in a post apocalypse, all for the pleasure of a sadistic necromancer. With nothing but the emotional support of the other unfortunate girls around you, which can easily veer into unhealthy obsession territory, you must try and stay sane as you're cut apart and put back together time and again and yet again. Also the official replay, essentially a recorded story of a campaign, ends in two girls of 15 and 11 re-attaching wombs to themselves to go try and repopulate the human race by themselves. All the while stuff like pic related is official art by the book's illustrator and would pass as character art.

Tl;dr: It's the sort of thing that would cause most people to start shouting magical realm on reflex.

Like another user said, it's 80% 3e. Huge step backward imo, for the first time in D&D's history.

I really enjoy Pathfinder with the core casters banned banned, replacing them with DSP psionics and Path of War. I never really understood 4e hate.

That's what I was saying, yes.

If it wasn't for the "everyone is little girls" part I could see arguing why it isn't. But anyone who insists on keeping that specific part is making any claims of "it's not a thinly veiled loli guro fetish ERP" dubious.

Well user if you tried not to be an idiot memelord for 2 seconds you would realise it's mostly focuses around the juxtaposition of the innocence of the dolls in a literally dead world of horrors.
The impact of it would be wiped away buy gruff 40 something male zombies.

I can't so much think of a system, but I know my players would look at me funny if they knew I'd enjoy a session where we all just chill out, chat in character and go have some fun bonding between adventures and shit.

I know that there's a whole lot of implied story-swapping and talking and just general hanging out in adventuring parties but I'd really like to do some of it in game. My group would look at me funny if I tried though.

>keeping that specific part
It's a core part of the system and built in pretty hard senpai.

So it's loli guro fetish ERP with a flimsy justification, gotcha.
when half your post is about loli guro fetish ERP, it's kind of hard to argue that it's ACTUALLY about the juxtaposition

That just sounds like saying your thing for bloodied up prepubescent girls is somehow artsy, man.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it's really hard to take seriously when the game shoves little animu zombie girls at you all the time.

That's actually a different guy. But that's not important, 'cause pretty much no one believes that line anyway. What is important is that, since it's a thread about games you could catch flak for, I emphasized the parts that would get the sort of flak you're giving. Mechanically, it is a really solid system, and none of the three different games I'm in are remotely ERP. But it is a hell of a hurdle to get someone past that initial "Wait, what?" and help them assume it's not.

>So it's loli guro fetish ERP with a flimsy justification, gotcha.
Nice. Meme. Also not the original user.

The core of the game is innocence in a dead world and inter party relations.
Having conversation with other party members is the main health restoration mechanic.

Think of it this way. What is more disturbing dead little girls getting cut up and going insane or badass male zombie guys doing the same?
It's supposed to make you uncomfortable senpai.

It's been a while since I played, but I don't recall any mechanics that require the players to be young girls, beyond the game sating "make them female". It's just fluff.

A large portion of the memories, treasures and fetters come off pretty odd for adult males dude.
Not to mention having to re-fluff a number of roles and classes.
I fucking hate you Veeky Forums.

To be honest, the only reason it makes me uncomfortable is how often the art uses the sense of decay in things to show off as much little girl skin as possible without being actual porn. I've seen the art that comes out of this shit.

Also if human suffering doesn't make you uncomfortable regardless of who's doing the suffering there's something legitimately wrong with you.

Only the treasures seem out of place and those are easily changed. Why are you so bothered by this?

The art that comes out of this is pretty varied.

Because it goes against the core of the entire game you fucking idiot.

So it's badwrongfun, got it.

Judging from that PDF, change a couple names and refluff the treasures and you could do it pretty easily.

It's not even that you *can't* be little girls in a horror setting. It's really the requirement that you *must* be, coupled with the boners over dead girls and the things they produce throw at you, that makes it horrible.

You're fucking bad wrong fun.
Go.
Fuck.
Yourself.

I'm so fucking done with you fucking faggots.

The core of the game, from what I'm reading, is "the world has effectively died, and the last shred of humanity, hope and kindness is held tight in the grip of a handful of painfully flawed undead who must either struggle against the end of all things in an effort to let that glimmer of light last a little longer or give up on all of what they once were entirely and succumb to the uncaring decay around them".

That's literally Dark Souls and all the other grim fantasy settings that inspired it mixed in with a heaping dose of taking a moment to consider entropy and the very real world mindset of rebelling against an uncaring, godless existence and why we keep doing it.

Who the zambolies are is irrelevant, so being so buttmad that people don't want to play half naked twelve year old girls for you to spank to is what makes you look creepy.

>That's literally Dark Souls
>creepy.
Fuck off you literal cuckhold

I like Risus.

>pedo gets BTFO
>proceeds to call people cucks and abuse the use of the word 'literal'

>I never really understood 4e hate.
It wasn't 3.x.
That is literally what it came down to.
user, at least attempt to have a worldview not firmly based on American Puritans.
It's the same as how French horror films used sexuality to make the movies even more unsettling. The fact that you are so squeamish about the entire concept means it's working as intended and you don't even realize it.

>baits
>has bait taken
>crows about it
Dude, stop, at least some people can see right through you.

>user, at least attempt to have a worldview not firmly based on American Puritans.
I've met people who don't have those, they generally come off as faffing about all the time and being the sort of creep who'd fondle a passed out girl and claim there's nothing wrong with it. I don't want to be like them.

>It's the same as how French horror films used sexuality to make the movies even more unsettling. The fact that you are so squeamish about the entire concept means it's working as intended and you don't even realize it.
I fully realize that's their point. It doesn't change the fact that I think they're a bunch of fucking freaks and should be put against the wall and shot.

Not all disgust is born of ignorance, you know.

I didn't post anything I don't legitimately believe. How is being honest baiting?

>someone is exploring themes I'm not comfortable with
>they should be killed for this!

>implying inferior cultures shouldn't be buried under the banner of those with the might to do it
This is what I meant by you lot all faffing about.

Then it is your opinion, and no, you need not play the game.
However, your lust to control the writing others create because it doesn't match up with your personal moral standard means you ought to go to and indulge your censorship desires there, rather than on Veeky Forums.
Oh, Dark Souls? Why not Medievil, another game about an undead hero? Or lets go back to 1989, with the game Musha? The fact that you decided to namedrop Dark Souls is right up there with the screeching monkeys that howled that 4e was WoW or 3e was Diablo.
Further, the setting premise is not new, by any stretch, you can measure it back to classic Chinese/Japanese/Indian/Persian myth, all of whom had people risen back to life as shadows of themselves to right a world gone wrong.
You are either baiting, a shitposter, or a walking example of the kind of badwrongfun player that needs to not be a part of this hobby. Probably all three.

>It wasn't 3.x.
>That is literally what it came down to.
There was also WotC making fun of people for playing 3.x.

Like how they made fun of people for playing 2e?

Riddle of Steel is my favorite system. It's the only system that actually feels like roleplying to me, anything else might as well be a videogame

3aboos have such thin skins.

I quite enjoy pathfinder, especially in tier 4 games

Character building for Pathfinder is really fun, there are a lot of options available, and even a lot of bad options can prove useful for some really niche build.

Making fun of people for using the product of a different company is not quite the same as making fun people for using your own product.
Also, there was no Paizo waiting in the wings with a legal rip-off nor any appreciable amount of on-line communication to spread the word.

Well, since I have a minute... Exactly what is roleplaying to you, exactly?
I have never ascribed roleplaying to a game or system, because to me, roleplaying disregards mechanics at a base.

>The core of the game is innocence in a dead world and inter party relations.
>Having conversation with other party members is the main health restoration mechanic.
Why do you have to be a young lady at all for that to work?

>there was no Paizo waiting in the wings with a legal rip-off
Because there was no OGL for 2e, but you are a fool if you don't know of the many, many ripoffs.
>nor any appreciable amount of on-line communication to spread the word.
The internet had existed for quite a while come 98-00, user. Look, you are making it clear you weren't around for when this was happening, but I have fond memories of bbs' exploding when the news was dropped, and of the edition wars of the day.

I suppose you could be a half-fae shota catboy trap for it to work, but that is really stretching it.

>What is more disturbing dead little girls getting cut up and going insane or badass male zombie guys doing the same?

>badass zombie girl.jpg

You're kinda ruining your own argument here, mate.

> and all the other grim fantasy settings that inspired it
It's like you can't read whole sentences or something, and just get tumblrtriggered because someone picked one you didn't like to mention by name.

Well, it depends on whether or not you understand how horror, especially personal horror, works.
To answer your question, it's for the same reasons most horror movies have a sole female survivor, or that many horror games have a female protagonist.
So why even bring it up, if you acknowledge that the idea is old as dirt? Unless you actually don't know that name dropping video games is base level trolling on Veeky Forums, in which case, lurk more, post less.

It'd be something to talk about.

>naming a video game makes me enter a frothing rage
Are you mad because your computer cost $200 and your mom won't let you have a console?

>the product of a different company
Except they'd been making 2e for about 3 years at that point (after buying TSR in 1997).

Not literally every character is going to end up a mewling pile of tears. Some do indeed harden to the violence and the horrors. And then you have jaded, stoic children, completely at odds with the innocence you'd expect. Which is another angle to explore, the breakdown of that innocence as someone turns into the sort to just coldly point a rifle at whatever is harassing their sisters next. Their coldness and distant attitude as they're further changed in ways that seem useful, but aren't wholly positive. Basically, so much as being badass raises its own questions which can facilitate good roleplay if you take it as a good angle instead of just going "Lol my character is too badass to care about this."

>I'm gonna shitpost MORE huehue
Here is your (you).

Having guilt for what you enjoy is fucking stupid.

Roleplaying to me is exactly that: playing a role. Systems like DnD (and Pathfinder, FFG Star Wars, etc) are centered around pursuing gear and levelling up in an abstract and arcane framework that rewards conflict and blowing shit up.

Riddle of Steel is grounded in reality in that combat is extremely lethal and even a victorious battle can fuck you up for the rest of your life. Skills are improved through using those skills, not because you killed enough things to allocate points.

I guess one group wants you to run on a treadmull while the other encourages you to behave as if you are a part of that world.

It's also way easier to DM since all NPCs are humans and there aren't monster stat blocks to balance. If you get your dumbass into a one-sided fight you're going to die. Period.

>To answer your question, it's for the same reasons most horror movies have a sole female survivor, or that many horror games have a female protagonist.
There're alot of horror movies and games that have a man as the protagonist as well. Silent Hill one and two would be great examples of video games with male protagonists that pull off themes of horror very well. And when it comes to horror novels and such there're slews of protagonists of either gender. To use a familiar name just try and find the stories written by H.P. Lovecraft that have women protagonists.

I honestly don't have a problem with nechronica, i learned about it from Veeky Forums years ago and it seems interesting (my group could never pull it off though), but the whole restricting PC's to being young females just seems like it was taking the easy route for "Horror", y'know?

It feels like just putting an innocent looking girl in a grotesque situation is as subtle for horror as a jump scare. It aims for a gut reaction rather than a cerebral one.

And that wouldn't work if that character was a guy?

>all NPCs are humans and there aren't monster stat blocks to balance.
>what are wild animals

You may really like Burning Wheel.

Wild animals don't have hit dice, encounter powers, weaknesses/resistances, random abilities, etc. Just approximate physical stats and natural weapons and you're done

Never heard of it, I'll check it out

>approximate physical stats and natural weapons
Most people would consider that a stat block, you know.

I get flak for not liking FFG Star Wars, I especially dislike Edge of the Empire.

Bad gimmick, custom dice, obligation is retarded, and combat is stupid swingy.

>Systems like DnD (and Pathfinder, FFG Star Wars, etc) are centered around pursuing gear and levelling up in an abstract and arcane framework that rewards conflict and blowing shit up.
Not only is that your opinion, it is objectively wrong. It seems more likely that you either had shit gms who don't know how to run a decent game, and rely on the system to do it, rather than the gm.
You are, however, assuming that horror in a rpg is as easy to bring across as film or vidya.
It's not. In fact, it's fucking hard. What Nechronica works on is a base built on a perception of weakness and innocence. In those films and games you mentioned with male protags, how many of them feature the protag breaking down in fear the way shellshock used to hit WW1 soldiers? They don't. I can, however, list a few games offhand that do, a few movies. Demento, Rule of Rose, Night of the Living Dead. Demento in particular is a great analogy to the game, with much of the same atmosphere of "Wrong".

I liked the cards, honestly; it made things more fun with random but useful powers, rather than using the same carefully plotted powers all the time. The big problem is that you can't get those cards for love nor money anymore, so you have to print out a random table, and that loses the tactile reminders of your options.

It's not that it wouldn't work. With the right mindset, you could roleplay anything in the system and still bring the themes across. But it hits harder when there's this presumption that the character in question should be innocent. Take, for example, a scenario where these 'badasses' protect some other, squishy party member. As some old guy, perhaps that might look like:

>Ragnar impales the charging man upon his blade, before kicking the bloodied corpse to the ground. "Ah, thank you, thank you!" shouts a voice. Ragnar turns back to grin at the mage cowering behind him, "Hardly a thing to worry about, that was barely sport. Didn't I say I'd keep you safe? So come, let us venture further! I am your infallible shield!"

vs. perhaps our rifle girl

>After one final report marks the beast's demise, Mary slings her rifle on her back by its strap. Another girl timidly makes their way to her, stammering out "T-thank you for helping." Mary hardly spares the second girl a glance, as she starts forward again. "I keep telling you. It's just my job. You can stop thanking me every time I shoot something that's running at you. We keep moving, that was our job after all."

Now I'm a faggot and my writing/roleplaying is terrible, so those two scenarios probably are as well, but the general idea I'm trying to get across here is that badassness is not some one note thing and can carry different tones. There are varying degrees of it, that can come from different places. Being young and female facilitates the latter, whereas being male carries presumptions that facilitate the former. But you are right in that it's not at all impossible to do roleplay in line with Nechronica as any gender or age: you just don't get that springboard the default age and gender do.

drivethrurpg.com/product/98542/Burning-Wheel-Gold-Hub-and-Spokes

This is a free PDF of the first 70 pages of the latest edition's rulebook.

Skills and stats increase through advancement. Combat is unique and unpredictable, which adds to the lehality and the pain of recovery taking so long. Also, characters are defined by written beliefs and instincts, and the game's reward mechanism is based on playing to those.

Here's a more useful link: Most or all of the Burning Wheel line.
mega.nz/#F!0pZkQAoY!WOv8QDEY6vaG1BdiVOBofw

>Objectively wrong

lol
I'm sorry you didn't like my opinion, I'm just sharng my experience from playing and running lots of games in lots of systems. Most games are very gamey and not centered on actual roleplay, DnD just being the most readily-available example

Your complaint is that the game knows it is a game, and doesn't mandate (or should I say force) roleplay on to the player.
Nothing you've said about RoS means it has better "roleplay" than any other game. Combat being deadly does not make for better rp. The system for improving your pc does not make for better rp, because you aren't "roleplaying" those skills, you are using them within the mechanics (and it doesn't even actively represent growth of skill the way it works irl).
What you are saying is that YOU are the bad gm that could not bring out the best in your players, and so found a system that uses mechanics to force what you could not bring forward.
It's sad, honestly, because you probably believe what you say.

The system is just more conducive to a less-gamey mindset chill out bud

>more conducive to a less-gamey mindset
That's what you say, but you've yet to successfully convince anyone.

>What systems do you enjoy, but would get you some flak for liking?
Pathfinder, Corporia, and Shades of Earth.

All I can offer as insight is that I like them, because I do.

>Corporia, and Shades of Earth.
What are these?

Rather obscure RPGs that use their own unique systems. I like them but I've chosen to include them here because when I tell others about the games their usual question, before even hearing HOW exactly these systems work is "Durr, why don't you just run them in 5th edition?"

It's gotten frustrating enough that I've just stopped telling people about them.

>You have to play a girl in Nechronica

I've got the book and the FAQ here. The setting encourages characters to be young and female but it's not a demand.
If you use the tables in the game your character will end up somewhere between 7 and 17 and if you use the setting included in the book your character can be male but will either look androgynous or feminine. The reason given for that is that the Necromancers are bad at creating dolls that look otherwise.

>FATAL by it's full name
> roll for anal circumference

You do remember what happened the last time a faggot defended Fantasy Adventures To Adult Lechery, right?

That was the best thread

>What systems do you enjoy, but would get you some flak for liking?
I actually really like pre-revision Vampire: the Masquerade.

Everyone else thinks it's shit. (and it is)

It and the Jim Profit ban were amazing. Though the Questfag-ocaust is looking to be even funnier.

Although I understand why people did not like 4e, I just do not understand how people came to be so attached to it.

Exalted First Edition