/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>It doesn't have a separate special mechanic for fear frenzy
But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Why was oWoD better?

>But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Vampires aren't animals

The Beast was supposed to represent their animalistic and predatory nature
And all living beings have a fight or flight response...well Vampires are not living but you get the point

You don't need mechanics to enforce "holy fuck that deals Aggravated damage to me."

Now it represents other things, and not all living beings have a fight or flight response

I guess I just liked oWoD Beast better. If push comes to shove I think I just like Masquerade better.

Sunlight/Fire, Like always.
Also Childer like Always.

Good
it does not mean it is better
but part of having an intelligent opinion with thes e things is knowing they are not the same game or meant to be

Some stuff of Requiem is cool. I like the covenant system (even if I only like a couple of the covenants themselves) and some of the new bloodlines are cool (usually way cooler then the original clans imo) some neat lore I guess. But the stuff I dont like is either to me just too different,I like better in the old system or it makes me roll my eyes.

>>Rotschreck dont exist
>B-b-but I liked the Red Fear
Just because "Rotschreck" and "Wassail" don't exist doesn't mean that Vampires no longer experience fear or hunger.

>But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Which is... Frenzy. Nevermind that there were multiple reasons to Frenzy beyond Fear and Hunger to begin with.

Vampires are animals. The Beast is atavism incarnate. It's the desire to feed, fuck, and wreck shit. The Beast is lust and greed and hunger. The Man is rational thought and decency. The Beast is the lizard brain turned up, the predator stalking the tall grass. The Man wants comfort and security and connections. The Beast whispers into your ear “I'm hunger. I'm thirst. Where I bite, I hold till I die, and even after death they must cut out my mouthful from my enemy's body and bury it with me. I can fast a hundred years and not die. I can lie a hundred nights on the ice and not freeze. I can drink a river of blood and not burst. Show me your enemies.”

Whether you stalk the boardrooms or humiliate your victims in the club or you run through the woods chasing a coed with gobbets of her blood staining your naked body, The Beast is an animal. Metaphorically and literally. It is

>Also Childer
Why don't you love me, Vampire Dad?

You could always just play Masquerade using Requiem 1e's ruleset. Just have the Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarch/Other, Inferior Factions serve as the Covenants.

this is aspel
aspel doesn't know anything about vampire, just disregard him

I was planning too

>Anarchs
>Camarilla
>Sabbat
>Inferior
The only covenants I really liked in Requiem were the Invictus and I GUESS maybe the Ordo Dracul.

just because someone replies to more than X posts at a time, that does not automatically make them Aspel.

He's right though, so it probably isn't Aspel

The post layout and words they use are EXACTLY like the last time I argued with that autist about Vampire

No it's Aspel. Calling it.

Just who is this Aspel person anyway?

An autist. Dont worry

No, no, no, you misunderstand. I'm talking about inferior Independent Masquerade Clans, like "Snake men who are bad" and "Sad Middle Eastern Murderers". They can be covenants along with Superior, Good Factions like the three I mentioned.

General regular with very strong opinions with the amazing superpower to bait everyone into a major derail by browbeat ing them.

>I'm talking about inferior Independent Masquerade Clans, like "Snake men who are bad" and "Sad Middle Eastern Murderers"
yeah fair enough those guys are a little boring. Not saying Masquerade is perfect but I do like it more then Requiem.

I like beast. I think its a nice little toolbox to use in chronicles

>ywn be a constant disappointment to your sire.

At the heart of every Vampire story, there exists a "I must bond with my disappointed aging father played by Robert Redford on this fishing trip along the deadliest river" story.

For some reason your greentext made me think of Hank Hill.

It's a shame we can't have a Propane themed Vampire Bloodline because of the fact they wig out around fire.

>I sell Vitae and Vitae related accessories

well Rotscheck is no longer a thing so have fun

Vampires would still be pretty wary around fire, since it still does bags of aggressive damage.

just dont shoot yourself

Even being around a torch-sized fire provokes a Frenzy at -2 to resist.

That's a point, maybe the Bloodline should morph guns that work like an organic air rilfe, only instead of air its propane, and instead of shot it's pieces of crystallized Vitae.

I am Aspel. But I'm also right. How are you people so unfamiliar with the games that you argue about?
For fucks sake, half the shit I'm saying is paraphrased from the book.

>Every step she takes, every corner she turns, a Kindred’s Beast stands ready to face threats, to defend territory, and most importantly, to feed. To the Beast, everything is a challenge, a potential conquest, a meal, or a combination of the three. To other predators, the Beast is a palpable thing, something that identifies another monster.

>The Monstrous Beast: This represents the Beast-As-Destroyer. Its every instinct is to rip asunder. The monstrous aura inspires a witness to fight or flee. It evokes the most primitive survival instincts in its victims, and causes the Bestial Condition (p. 301). The
>Seductive Beast: This is the Beast-As-Tempter. It needs hot abandon, and a temporary escape from reality. It inspires the need for immediate, throwaway coupling. It evokes the primal need for instant gratification, and causes the Wanton Condition (p. 307).
>The Competitive Beast: This is the Beast-As-Alpha. It needs to come out on top, to command, to control. It inspires power plays and dominance games. It evokes the need for a rigid hierarchy, a food chain, and causes the Competitive Condition (p. 302).

Doesn't mean you aren't at risk of Frenzy.
>Sometimes, the Beast grows impatient. When the vampire faces danger, hunger, or threat, the Beast goads her to immediate and extreme response, usually meaning a blood-soaked frenzy. Frenzy comes from many sources, but always shares the same response: End the problem by any means necessary.
>When faced with a strong enough stimulus, the vampire risks losing control of her Beast. She can temporarily hold the monster inside, but eventually she must face her monstrosity. Either she’ll force it down, or the Beast overwhelms her to fight, feed, or flee.
But what do I know, I don't read the books.

reminds me of the terrible sequel to Bloodrayne where your guns shot out blood pellets and you reloaded by letting your guns "drink" humies blood.

fine your right. I just like oWoD beast better. Happy?

>How are you people so unfamiliar with the games that you argue about?

aspelputstheirownheadintheguillotine.jpg

Another thing I was thinking with this bloodline is they use Celerity to give themselves Red Dead Redemption style bullet time and speed up their reloads.

What even are you not getting? I've shown you quotes from the book that prove my point. I clearly know what I'm talking about. That's not a brag; I don't have some hidden insight. That's... "I read the book". I'm as familiar as anyone else who's read the book.

Why do you like the oWoD Beast better? I'm pretty sure it was more or less the same, not the animal that lashes out at danger and little more that you characterized it as last time (and since you are clearly the same person from the other thread, I have to wonder why we're going through this again).

>Beast, The: 1. The primal drives of a vampire that threaten to turn him into an uncontrollably ravenous and/or zombie like. 2. The drives and urges which prompt a vampire to become entirely a monster, forsaking all humanity.[1][2]
>The Beast is an innate demonic predator that awakens within each and every vampire upon their Embrace. It stands in direct opposition to a vampire’s Humanity (and in some cases the Paths of Enlightenment) and is responsible for many of the debased urges Cainites feel on a nightly basis. In times of extreme distress the Beast can overwhelm a vampire forcing them into a state of pure animalistic fight or flight, which is referred to as Frenzy or Rötschreck.
Frenzy is only one part of what the Beast is. It's with every Vampire all the time, even when they're not freaking out over cigarettes.

I love that you bitch about elitism and shit, then act all elitist.

>Knowing basic aspects of the game you're talking about is elitism

He claims that's elitism when it comes to video games. If you act knowledgeable it's elitism by his standards.

>What even are you not getting?

I'm not even the person you're arguing with, you just had an opening for a joke and I took it.

I guess I always interpreted The Beast in oWoD as just survival instinct ramped up to 11.
Just one more day thats what you work for. Lie cheat kill and steal and fuck over everyone before they fuck you over. Every day just keep hustling. And when its trapped,scared,hungry and afraid it lashes out and its some wild animal thats wearing your skin and you have no control over anything. The less Human you are the more animal you become.

New Wraith20 preview, a chapter on The Risen. It's so hot off the word-processor that it's in...White Wolf formatting tags!

drive.google.com/file/d/0B57iDF62OjtPNlJVVlplNVRFd3lMTDJFN1NCX2pUcTVyMUFV/view

I just had the strangest idea for a Changeling; He's a Nightsinger, Minstrel, Thusser AND Flamesiren, all rolled into one...His Keeper turned him into a barbershop quartet.

why wouldn't the keeper just divide him into four beings?

Why do the logical thing where you're a True Fae and don't have to give a fuck?

I think at that point you'd just be a Chimera.

David Lynch fucking sucks

>hating on twin peaks

That's a random unprovoked thought...

No, he's actually pretty great: youtube.com/watch?v=nztUH5lbRMw

His movies blow

His comic's pretty good.

...

I just realized
Wolf was a Pangaean, and there are wolf spirits
Harvest was a Pangaean, and there are harvest spirits

Was there a Moon Pangaean, before Luna?

Is it possible that Luna's a Pangaean that became a spirit after the world became Sundered?

What does this have to do with anything, though? It's unrelated to anything in the thread.

Wolf didn't turn into wolf spirits.

Father Wolf and wolf spirits existed simultaneously.

Some Pangaeans turned into spirits because there was no place for them.

But whether there was a Pangaean or not doesn't affect whether there was a spirit or not.

It is possible Luna was a Pangaean but she seems to be more of a spirit.

No, because then Werewolves wouldn't have the special place they are, being a merger of flesh and spirit. Though if I recall, some of the stuff in the corebook calls Urfarah a Spirit as well.

I didn't mean to imply that they became the spirits; they're certainly the forebears of the spirits, though, if the example stats we got for Fox and Harvest are anything to go by(both had powers that made spirits)

What I meant, mostly, is that the Pangaeans all preceded whatever they embody, while spirits are formed from the perception of whatever they embody, and thus came after.
Logically, this means there must have been a Moon pangaean, right?

They still would, because a Pangaean is a mix of flesh and spirit.

But Neolithic section calls her a spirit and there's no reason to think she is a Pangaean.

Ah, that's a great point. In that case, I could see a Pangaean for Moon and Luna existing simultaneously without actually being inter-related.

>Logically, this means there must have been a Moon pangaean, right?
Not necessarily, there doesn't have to have been a Pangaean for everything.

I got the impression from the Neolithic chapter that things that get to be Pangaeans are most likely the major aspects of day-to-day life in the age: dangerous predators, common prey important tasks for survival, that kind of stuff.

that's spirits

Though similar to spirits, Pangaeans are — along with
werewolves — the true natives of the Border Marches. They
are powerful symbols of natural cycles and forces, the gods
of weather, the seasons, and the animals. Unlike spirits, they
are not reflections of the world but pillars of it — primeval
divinities born in this rift between worlds. Each Pangaean pos-
sesses colossal power, and the Wise believe such an entity may
even be a fallen inhabitant of the Supernal World, trapped
between Flesh and Shadow by the end of the Time Before.

And this is why I should have the chapter again to make sure before posting. Thanks user.

>tfw I have character concepts for vampire but they are fucked and kind of unusable in Requiem
I had an idea for a toreador but now I cant use it because the Deava are not Toreador and the bloodline of Toreador are not what I want for my character

What's your concept? Some of it might fit more with a Covenant than any particular Clan.

you can just play masquerade
but why couldn't you use it? what's this idea?

Masquerade is a piece of shit just like everything in oWoD so I think you're lying

This user brings up a good point.

nice CS Lewis reference

Daeva are not Toreador, but that doesn't mean they can't be.
Roll 10-Humanity or become entranced by a subject of art.

Such a badass boast.
I don't particularly like the reading here (I always imagined The Werewolf to basically be the wolf from Neverending Story, and with a quicker cadence) but still:
youtu.be/TKIbuXsN2F4

Well I did a bit more research on the Daeva and it may be doable after all but I will explain what I wanted to do.

The idea was that of a young standout wrestler in highschool and college decided to try his hand at MMA as a hobby. After a promising Amateur career he turned pro won a couple fights eventually ending up at his (future) sires club as a venue for a small time promotion he was fighting with. The owner of the club was a bit old school,considered it an uncultured bloodsport but let the event take place because it would bring in customers and money. It was a short but very impressive performance and the sire saw something that the others lacked. A grace, a certain artistry to the ultimately ugly conclusion. Captivated in the moment they embraced them but quickly this flight of fancy passed and was embarrassed and ashamed. Basically abandoned and realized that he could not realize his dreams of wrestling in the Olympics or winning a world title he grew to hate his sire though of course the abandonment did not help. Of course you cant just assassinate an older much more powerful vampire without consequence so he must gain a powerbase himself. He didnt have the political subtlety and nuance to court the more high profile power players but maybe he could connect with the untaped potential of the masses. What do the Gangrel and Brujah like more then a good scrap? Why not create a vampire fight club? It could be his Elysium,domain and a way to generate income through betting.
Is this a shit idea or no?

You are wrong sir.

So, Demon possession only seems to become a big thing in the Final Nights of cWoD, due to the cracks in the abyss forming.

Are there any appearances prior to the Final Nights? What were the odds of someone dying, and a Demon slipping in? I mean, was Lucifer just pulling the strings of other supernaturals, or has there been a background of Demon activity (just lesser) prior to the Final Nights?

I'm just trying to put together how I might be able to work them into OWoD without having to wait a decade for a splabook that might not even release. I suppose the systems won't be so incompatible that the Fallen material won't be usable. I just need to get a solid grasp of how they fit the oWoD before the Final Nights.

>"My Toreador's art is martial"
That cliche subversion works *better* with Daeva.

despite there actually being a premade character in one of the Toreador books for a Kung Fu master?

So, Mage 2e comes out soon.
I have like 10 cabals to at least give a bit of identity. Fuck me.

Yes

Why wouldn't a Daeva be a fighter? They have the disciplines for it. They have the passion for it.

Hell, if one wants to make a combat monster in Requiem, Daeva is the go-to clan.

Daeva always seemed to be the edgy kind of "sex drugs and rock and roll" clan that I always found boring and cheap. Toreador were always way more interesting to me. But I guess I could be a Daeva. Still not as cool tho.

Sure. And fighting, and rebelling, and warring, and preaching.
They are Toreador + Brujah.
Sure, there is sex, drugs, and rock&roll in there, but it's far, far from all of it.
They are the strongest, fastest, and most amazing vampires there are.

>Toreador + Brujah.
Exactly thats why I hate it. I miss when Toreador were just that.

The only good clan in requiem is Ventrue.

You got some really shit taste m8, Masquerade is indeed perfect for you

Because they are the only ones who haven't changed, you mean?

Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.

No the Gangrel have not changed much either. But I always found them a bit boring...except for Becket hes awesome. The Nosferau changes are ok. Though I am not a fan of Mekhet and Daeva. Most of the Daeva bloodlines are lame too. Though most of the bloodlines for the either clans are way cooler then the original.

You should go back to /v/ where you belong, with the old worlders

Ventrue are definitely tonally distinct in Requiem. The shift from eldest clan to youngest, the loss of Majesty/Presence, and their aggressive expansionism does a lot to shift perception of them from socialite kings to bloody conquerors.

But compared to every other clan's changes, they are pretty minor.

>Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.
Masquerade is very dated. It's firmly rooted in 90s attitudes and aesthetics, not to mention it was produced when White Wolf was at its highest in terms of "rules are an illusion, which we suck at".

It's a classic, and I like it, but I wouldn't want to play it again. There's too much about it I'm tired of.

>No the Gangrel have not changed much either. But I always found them a bit boring...except for Becket hes awesome. The Nosferau changes are ok. Though I am not a fan of Mekhet and Daeva. Most of the Daeva bloodlines are lame too. Though most of the bloodlines for the either clans are way cooler then the original.

The Gangrel are less animalistic. Less weird. More bestial.

Why don't you like the Mekhet and Daeva?

>Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.

My big problem is the lack of player options. The clans are too damn narrow.
Tremere = Wizard
Ventrue = Ruler
Tzimisce = Body-horror madman
Malkavian = Regular madman
And so on.
And no political choice except joining the sworn enemy of your people.