Pathfinder General

LET ME SING TO YOU, LET ME COMFORT YOU
- SINCERELY DOU-BRAL

Isn't that just multiclassing? Both classes multiclass very well. And if you're starting at level 1, your GM a shit

Yes, you can multiclass to do the same thing, but I'd like a single class that does what those two classes does, but without having to dedicate two feats and a PrC (or two if you're feeling frisky!) to making it work.

That was mostly what I liked about hybrid classes. A few of them like the Bloodrager, Skald and Warpriest filled spots that had originally been multiclass concepts, but now could be done in a single class. And in a system like PF, where multiclassing is generally a shitty plan, I liked that.

That said, Paizo is garbage at implementation and most of the hybrid classes are shit.

What is that and why does it have those feathers.

Wouldn't mind Paizo making more, provided Jason Bruhlman is not integrally involved cos that noise

Paizo can make nice things you stupid fucking tosser

I have no idea about Bloody Kraken. Do you have a link to it?

The main issue with changing Thrashing Dragon to work with dual ranged attacks is the three whirlwind-esque abilities (one of which is the capstone of the style line).

Your choices are:
1) Let them work with ranged weapons with no limitations, and thus have to deal with the person rolling a toooon of dice.
2) Put a ranged limitation on the whirlwind, so that only people within the first range increment are hit. This puts it on line with the Silver Crane version.
3) Put a target limitation, so that you can only hit up to X targets. This may or may not scale.
4) Have them work melee-only.

I could see some stuff like homebrew, but I think it would be super disappointing if DSP made a hybrid like that.

They only have so many people doing so many things, and it feels like a waste of time and space.

Name one nice thing that isn't sandwiched between 30 pages of shit, or 50 pages of spells.

Like I said, I have come to terms with that.

IT WISHES TO EMBRACE YOU AND COMFORT YOUR TROUBLES AWAY

Alchemist, investigator, magus, most of Weapon Master's handbook
Online resources are there for a reason

It's even worse online, because instead of flipping past 30 pages of garbage, you're bombarded with hundreds, if not thousands of shitty trap options.

But what IS it?

ALCHEMIST/OCCULTIST HYBRID THAT COMBINES ALCHEMIST NON-EXTRACT STUFF WITH ITEM POWERS FOR ULTIMATE SCIENCE CLASS

I NEED IT

What entity is currently possessing Zon-Kuthon?

But the above things user listed are nice things though?

I think it might've been Nyarlahotep.

AN INCUBATOR FOR THE TRANSFORMATION TO SOMETHING MAGNIFICENT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE A PART OF THIS METAMORPHOSIS?

I will acknowledge those are nice things, but trying to find things that are nice is even more difficult online than it is in the physical books.

"As Dou-Bral, Zon-Kuthon was known for his beauty, but his body now resembles a work of art only to those like-minded individuals who find pain and torture to be the pinnacles of existence. Although his exact appearance is said to often change, he generally is depicted as pale, gaunt, and often hairless. He is often depicted wearing tight, sexualized leather clothing, exposing his many open wounds and body modifications. His lips have been removed, giving him a bloody, haunting grin, and hooks and piercings contort his face into revolting expressions, enhanced by the crystal which rests in the cavity where his left eye once sat. Atop his scalp, a vertical crown of spikes pulls his skin into a disturbing sunburst, and the back of his skull is completely gone, revealing his brain. His hands end in long, knife-like fingernails."

Holy fuck, that is fucking metal I mean brutal

As a Full Caster in Spheres trying to use Telekinesis to Gish, what can I do to raise my TAB? +10 to hit at level 10 seems way too weak to be of much effect.

Uh. Isn't it CL + stat + bonuses from weapons/feats/stuff?

Will it hurt?

I see the thumper has drawn a great maker.

THE FIRST STEP TO ANY GREAT UNDERTAKING WILL ALWAYS BE EXTREMELY PAINFUL.
COME, LET US EMBRACE TO MAKE THE HURT GO AWAY PERMANENTLY AND FOREVER

I give it five seconds before this devolves into Baneposting.

Nah, it hasn't so far. Don't jinx it

Is there a specific talent to change it to that? The base ability "Bludgeon" says "your bab plus your casting ability modifier".

Huh. Coulda sworn. My bad. Someone check the TK handbook?

Nah. TK Bludgeons use your BAB+casting modifier to hit.

Flair lets you apply ranged weapon feats, and Dancing Weapon lets you apply melee weapon feats.

I think he's thinking of the Telekinesis spell, not the Telekinesis sphere.

What's your favorite country in Pathfinder Veeky Forums?

I mean, okay I guess?

I'm gonna regret this aren't I?

Yeah, I have those, but +1 from Weapon Focus doesn't seem super useful for getting my TAB up.

Rereading through that now.

Breland.

Doesn't look to be anything that'd let you use your CL to hit.

Understandable, since it'd make it super easy for fullcasters to not give a shit about BAB.

After the Fighter discussion last thread I had some early morning inspiration that led me to picking over the Fighters carcass for useful ideas. This led me to making the Wayfarer.

docs.google.com/document/d/1u9dXiisPuE5DDF8YiNtG4z81trUC1JSLjvS3Plgg_9o/edit?usp=sharing

>Skills/Points
Slightly different list but still mostly the same, now 4+Int
>Saves
All poor now but other class features boost them in new ways.
>Weapons/Armor
Gets a free Exotic, no tower shields, and no penalties on Improvised weapons
>Bonus Feats
Now not just Combat Feats.
>Bonus Skills
Gain 6 new class skills of your choice over level progression with 1/2 levels worth of skill points.
>Rapid Adaptability
Free action once per round to give one saving throw good progression.
>Hard Knocks
Permanent bonuses to saves of your choice. Allows you to customize.
>Resiliency
As the Rogue talent at lvl 2.
>Armor Training
Now gives a scaling DR1/- to go along with the reduced armor checks and increased Dex with armor you've trained with.
>Weapon Training
As Fighter
>Skill Mastery
As the Rogue talent with a few extra bits.
>Armor Mastery
Brings your DR up to 10/-
>Weapon Mastery
As Fighter

Still has a good chunk of the Fighters traditional loadout but also gives you Save/Skill customization as well as opening up all the Feats. No its not an Initiator but I purposely didn't include that because i'm not familiar enough with this version of the concept.

Thoughts?

Amn

Yeah, it's fair. I wanted to play that Soul Weaver Lichling archetype because it seems like an interesting gish build, but if I can't hit anything... I take it +10 at level 10 is pretty damn low, and it's not going to get much better from there.

not!Greece

Spheres fullcasters not caring about BAB is fine.

THEN LET IT BE DONE, OUR WILL BE DONE
You don't feel anything, neither emotions nor physical wounds, you can't feel them.
As time crumbles into nothingness, you alone will remain, unfeeling

Care to explain why?

Reminds me of that screamy pain summon from FFX.

...

LITERALLY EVERY COUNTRY IN EBERRON.

Because overall, being a mid or half caster in Spheres of Power SUCKS ASS.

TK gishing is cool, and if you're using that you've got a lot of stuff you're giving up (like maneuvers).

I like Osirion I guess?

My niggas

Thrane can go fuck itself.

t.Aundair

Even Argonessen?

It has Io'Lokar, a metropolis with a population even more improbable than any place in Faerun.

Yeah true. Dragons of Eberron was a really poorly-thought-out-book.

How do I pickle-pee, or pump-a-rum?

Agreed that is a shit DM. D&D is not meant for level 1 unless you're running some sort of hunger games cuckery.

But multiclassing is self-cuckery. Why would I dip levels and their junk low-level abilities instead of staying where I'm at? I mean yes I could probably pull off some cool combos or something but than that means I am authentically powergaming.

Multiclassing is either outright powergaming or outright shooting yourself in the foot. Base 20 is how you have linear progression. That was the intent behind Pathfinder to begin with.

MFW "core only" retard DMs that basically give you no choice but to be a divine caster or dead weight.

Can someone explain why Eberron is so well-received? What makes their countries so much better than Golarion's?

Is it because they aimed for believable countries with interconnected histories more than Kitchen Sink?

Partly, but also the feel of the world, which uses a "magic as technology" angle which is well far removed from the "classic" fantasy of most settings.

between the nice feeling world, the history, the variety of options, and the character concepts the new rules and the world history open up, the whole thing has a nice smooth and polished feel to players. Overall it just feels good.

The kitchensink, multiple authors approach by paizo was both a good and hilariously bad idea

docs.google.com/document/d/1-Gb6LvyNCgLGKsno7BFCTXn4fNaIxUngdbGeGfPk2jg/edit

From my understanding it was written by drowanon many moons ago, but little to no discussion about it or news of it being finished or updated.

>2) Put a ranged limitation on the whirlwind, so that only people within the first range increment are hit. This puts it on line with the Silver Crane version.

I think that might be the best option, if only the whirlwind maneuvers are a problem.

I just want to make almost any combat style a player can think of at least somewhat viable, and dual-wielding ranged weapons of some type comes up often enough.

Aundair Dares!

It was a new setting for 3.0/3.5. I think that was mostly it.

It was a low level setting, so that made it different than the Forgotten Realms.

It had magitek vehicles and races.

Uh, no.

Try again. Explain how it sucks ass for mid and halfcasters.

And how them theoretically sucking means fullcasters should be able to invalidate their poor BAB.

Siegbrau

Believable countries, interconnected histories, overall very tightly-designed (except Dragons of Eberron. We don't talk about Dragons of Eberron).

And then it had a strong, interesting hook ("3.5 if the magic was taken seriously for a setting" -> "magic is technology"), a lot of neat fluff beyond the countries, and fun little details everywhere. Occasional inversions of expectations (orcs and elves, for example).

It did something new. Eberron is VERY MUCH a kitchen sink, but they built it from the ground up to be a kitchen sink that feels polished.

Even with the kitchen sink elements, most of it feels polished and well-assembled. Everything has a place.

(Not guy you're responding to, but did start the convo.)
My only concern is that this entire build is invalidated completely if my character can't hit with those telekinetic weapons. So why have that sphere at all if the people who are meant to use it can't actually do anything? It's not like I'm dipping or getting it for free, i've got over a half-dozen talents in Telekinesis to make it work.

Personally the "magic as technology" aspect wasn't really that good when it wasn't used in an allegorical application; for example, the Warforged as disillusioned veterans raised for a conflict that no longer exists is amazing, the elemental-fueled trains and airships does not.

But that's just nit-picking, the setting is fantastic.

I don't think that's nit-picking - we got something different out of it, but this just shows it has a lot of appeal in a lot of different directions.

The last time i played in Eberron, I was playing a Shifter Druid and one of the party decided to go for a Silver Flame Paladin. It was great to RP the tension between them, since the Silver flame had done a purge of lycanthropes in the past.

It's gonna be weird as hell in the future when everyone's playing in NeoSpelljammerScape or whatever the fuck, and people look back fondly on Golarion the way we are Eberron and Planescape right now.

Don't even pretend it isn't going to get worse from here. The future is a dark one for tabletop...

No way in hell people are going to look fondly back at Golarion.

They might look back at APs or characters with fondness, but the setting itself is going to go the way of Forgotten Realms and be forgotten.

You sweet, naive summer child.

How little you know of the darkness that infests the hearts and minds of this hobby.

Why the fuck is the Wizard VMC so good, and what experience does /pfg/ have using it? What are some of the "best" classes for the teleportation subschool? Did you manage to get a discovery, and if so, which one was it?

I'm looking at this and almost every character concept in my folder would benefit from it, it's fucking ridiculous. From Alchemist and Bloodrager, to Summoner and Arcanist.

Eberron had some neat ideas though. Hell, so did Planescape even.

>Silver Flame

It's downright criminal how that organization was made, developed, but never emulated. The Silver Flame was one of the few fantasy religions that nailed something which not only felt monotheistic, but felt like the Roman Catholic Church.

What is the best way to qualify into Eldritch Knight these day?

VMC Oracle? Vigilante?

Why should it need to be emulated? It exists in its own right.

Although if you want something that feels like the Roman Catholic Church, why not just use the Roman Catholic Church?

Not that user, but "feels like the Roman Catholic Church in how it's handled, with the complex internal politics and interactions with external politics."

Not "is Catholicism."

The Silver Flame is a religion that is VERY well fleshed out and handled, with good and bad people in it. Most D&D and D&D knockoff settings' religions are pretty basic:

>Here's a god
>They say to do this stuff
>There's temples or churches I guess? Go to there for healing
>They might be involved in a theocracy but we don't want to write it out

It will be another generation before the Forgotten Realms is forgotten.

Drizzt Do'Urden and Elminster are still well known, and there's all the people who played Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.

So you're saying that the thing that's good about it is how a lot of work has been put into it? That's why it's not emulated.

If you want other religions with tons of thought put into them and some similarities to catholicism, Song of Swords does it better. Even though

It's good because VMC is a shitty system that just doles out class features from the selected class at an extremely reduced rate. The Wizard has almost no class features, so it's one of the better VMCs since there's not a lot of trash to sort though.

The thing that's good about it is not just that there's a lot of work put into it--it's that there's work put into making it feel "realistic." The Silver Flame reads like an actual religion, not a fantasy setting element.

It's not emulated because that's a fuckton of work, and fantasy writers tend to be lazy except when they're really into it.

Hahaha

Am I correct in thinking that synthesist summoners are some of the best grapplers in the game? They can take all the grapple feats, give their eidolon size upgrades and grapple anything.

How decent is the Animus Adept Prestige Class compared to just running Straight Mystic?

Do they still get completely shut down by freedom of movement? Then no, Tetori monk is still laughing (and crying) at the top of the grapple charts.

The user that's been replying to you has done a far better job at explaining my thoughts than I would've done myself.

The Church of the Silver Flame is a fantastic religion because it actually *feels* like a religion - it has black marks in it's history, it has high points, it has a complex internal structure with significant pull in external geopolitics, it actually feels like something you can immerse yourself in.

I guess that's the word I want to use for the Church, "immersive." In contrast, the Church of Iomedae or the Church of Lathander feel like set-pieces, something you add because you needed that aspect of the pantheon covered.

What is the Church of the Silver Flame meant to cover that others in the Sovereign Host can't?

If you have greater grapple, you can grapple as a move action and then use a standard action to coup de grace with throat slicer.

That does rely on them not escaping in the first round, though.

>>tfw grapple builds will never be good because of the hilariously inflated CMDs of monster at higher CRs to attempt to counteract the deficit in the action economy faced by solo boss monsters
>>tfw encounters against characters with class levels are the best encounters

Well yeah, of course it's better than deities in shit settings.

>that image

Fuck, now I want Black Souls.

Anyone have that one copypasta about how organized missionary religions don't work in settings with active, confirmed pantheons with gods of roughly equal power, because any attempts at mass conversion would spark planar war and there's little other reason to really organize?

TK is an interesting Sphere in that it offers different things to High and Halfcasters. Highcasters have the lift capacity, lowcasters generally have high BAB, so can operate better with Bludgeons.

Linear Acceleration could be good for hurling shit at people since it hits touch and wouldn't get any advantages from you having enough BAB for multiple attacks, although it's kinda costly SP-wise.

Speaking of multiple attacks, you lose out there too. A low-BAB class is just not a good choice for someone trying to operate largely with TK'd weapons.

Hey, I've been thinking about something that happened in a pathfinder session I was in a month or so back. There was a few issues that happened which ended up with a massive argument between this player and the GM, I'm wondering what you guys think about this?

Basically, this guy was gradually seen as our That Guy (we'll call him Greg), because he started sperging out about the lack of roleplaying available to us and how the party should be reacting to in-party spats, to the point where he started making nasty OC comments about characters and talking about how we should get rid of them. He especially hated my character, because I was playing as an NE necromancer. The first real issue with him is where one of my skeletons got possessed by an enemy necromancer and turned on us until I retook it. It caused a bunch of conflict IC, but that's when he started talking about why my necromancer is a terrible party member out of the game. As fate would have it, he got possessed by some wisps a session later and attacked us- I demolished him, and our barbarian chopped his head off when he too got possessed. He came back with a fresh character and got right back to conflict with me, and also with some other players.

This problem got overshadowed by his issues with the setting. We were playing in a post-apoc chaotic gangbang, which meant most of the game was dedicated to fighting, leaving little for party progression and roleplay. The GM also didn't really take our characters and their backgrounds into account, and only did so after Greg kicked up a massive stink about it. He started complaining that the setting was bad, that we were only getting into encounters with the same old enemy, and that we weren't able to explore at all, which were valid complaints.

I'll continue in next post.

So, jump to the last session, where things came to a head. We defeated the big bad who was trying to destroy the world, and sucked his soul into a crystal. That's when the strange merchant who we bought a lot of shit from appeared and demanded we hand the crystal over to him, so he could reset the world and prevent the apocalypse. Now, this guy was strange, and he was presented as an omnipresent magician. We decided to try and fight him, and he fucking stomped us. He was a chaotic good level 20 wizard fighting a bunch of level 9's. He killed our sorcerer in one move and Greg's second character in another. We gave up because we literally couldn't win, and the world got reset.

This made Greg really mad. He argued with the GM for a while about how we didn't have any choice in the ending, and how we had no chance against the level 20 wizard. He eventually told the GM that he was shit, and started taunting us that he wouldn't join our next session- he also cut in every time we started talking among ourselves with some asshole comment.

While I think Greg had valid complaints, I feel he got way too autistic way too quickly and turned into an asshole when people disagreed with him. The GM admittedly started to hate the setting himself and tried to end it quickly. He said that he began developing the wizard later on when he decided to end it ASAP. I don't know how to feel about it all, I didn't really take much of a side. Who do you guys think was in the wrong?

The trains and airships arose because Eberron was also designed around pulp adventure, and given the strongest pulp era is in the 1920s and 1930s, which had a bunch of trains and dirigibles, they're natural additions, even if both had to be magicked-up a bit to fit with the rest of the setting.

An asshole with valid points is still an asshole.

The fact that an asshole said them shouldn't take away from their value as points, but neither should valid points take away from how big an asshole he is.

If he doesn't wanna come back, that sounds like the best option.

Also, not everything has to have roleplaying. Railroading isn't necessarily always a bad thing.

If people are having FUN is what ultimately matters, and this guy was obviously ruining the fun enough for you to talk to Veeky Forums about it, so HE is a bigger problem than any of the potential other ones he brought up.