>Question: Why are cantrips a superior option for multiclass martial characters?
If, and only if, you delay getting Extra Attack past level five, don't forget that.
Jace Howard
No need to even multiclass. >Booming Blade >Arcane Trickster >Hit them, disengage and bait them to come attack you
Looking forward to picking this and Green Flame Blade as my cantrips when I finally reach 3rd level with this character.
Jayden Taylor
>Question: Why are cantrips a superior option for multiclass martial characters?
Cantrips scale with character level. Martial characters' damage scales by gaining extra attacks, which are tied to class level. Therefore your cantrips will almost always deal more damage than a normal weapon attack action.
Henry Walker
Because cantrips reward creativity and grant martials options they otherwise wouldn't have.
Isaiah Johnson
Is Kor the best monk race or is the best monk race?
Cooper Rivera
Praise Lathander the Quest threads are gone
Liam Kelly
>Question: Why are cantrips a superior option for multiclass martial characters? Superior for what purpose? There's only one cantrip that's actually worth swapping your weapon out for, and only if you take at least two levels of Warlock to get an invocation to bring it up to speed.
Aaron Phillips
>Have played nothing but Dumb Martial damage classes in 5e.
>Look into the world of Wizardry >2.5 billion choices of what to pick/do.
Holy shit I'm too dumb. Why..why do they streamline everything then leave Wizards so very complicated.
Fuuuuck
Lucas Ortiz
There's, total, about 250 spells, all class combined, of which iirc wizard gets the bulk.
And still nothing is ever going to make me play a wizard, not even Bladedancer.
Brandon Carter
I think that's the point, wizards have always been mechanic wankery.
Landon Ortiz
Being the "HURR DURR THINGS DIE" kind of fighter outside of bartering situations/roleplay elements, I can only see the logic behind the Evocation school.
I mean yeah, flavor's flavor, but I guess my DM's kind of predictable with battles and surprise badness a constant, I need firepower, not minor illusions / wards.
What's a good flaw for a Tempest Hill Dwarf Cleric? I thought about making him claustrophobic or just afraid of going underground (almost died in a cave-in which killed his brother and set him off to a life at sea), but I think that'll interfere too much with the games if I'm quaking in my boots everytime we go into a basement. Do flaws have to be crippling or can they just be minor personality quirks?
Adam Barnes
>Linking a guide that >implies that the one reading it knows about being a Wizard already.
If that nigga doesn't know the difference between an Abjuration and an Adder, then why are you going to give that link?
There's no "Dummies" guide to Wizard play. Just "advanced handbooks if you don't know enough". Even the players handbook is kind of shit at explaining every nuance of Wizardry.
Xavier Martinez
My party just asked to let them run through death house with level 3 characters, cause they hate level 1.
What's the easiest way to scale it up while keeping it incredibly difficult?
Eli Hernandez
>Evocation Literally different colors of doing more damage or healing with very few exceptions; Faerie Fire is about the only seriously flavorful spell in the school
>Conjuration Some nice stuff (Find Familiar, Misty Step, Arcane Gate) buried under a pile of trappy to moderately good options, some of which I'm pretty sure are still there just to troll with 3.5 players. Teleport is suicide again, except there's no TWE anymore. Gate can and absolutely will backfire.
>Illusion DM Fiat: The school. Half the spells could be eliminated as literally just higher slot progressions of the level 1 version.
>Enchantment Most of the good spells in the school will make people grab torches and pitchforks an hour down the line.
>Divination A few useful spells, and then some really nice looking shit that can blow up in your face.
>Alteration Some good shit. Some supposedly good shit that will backfire horribly.
>Necromancy At this point it's a legacy school that could be rolled into Divination, Conjuration and Evocation were it not for the perceived need for a bad guy school.
I actually have a lot of difficulty finding spells above level 3 to like at all.
Nathan Jenkins
>Evocation >Conjuration
Nothing else matters unless you somehow have some kind of lame turbo-XP campaign to unlock options.
Then you can Illusion bullshit the game.
>Mostly walls.
Parker Gomez
the problem with wizards as far as i can summarize: all the good spells are the ones that sound the worst, aside from early level burning hands.
grease, heat metal, cloud kill, misty step, web.
they're pretty grounded in reality compared to fire and lightning from your hands, but end up being a lot better than things that someone would actually want to do as a wizard.
and let's not forget the cantrip "5'x5'x5' box"
Isaac Diaz
Contingency is another major evocation spell that doesn't directly do damage unless that's changed this time around
And I'm not sure what you meant by alteration, but there's transmutation which is basically every buff you'd ever want and abjuration which is basically every defensive thing you'd ever want
Hunter Howard
3.5 converts remember an edition where evocations were all terrible compared to save-or-suck/save-or-die spells. As a DM, I've seen Hold Person cast at 5th level lead to as much damage (through guaranteed critical hits from the martial characters) as any evocation can do while robbing the enemies of their ability to fight back.
John Gonzalez
>I actually have a lot of difficulty finding spells above level 3 to like at all.
you can use arcane eye and unseen servant simultaneously since only one requires concentration.
you can see things around corners and interact with those things with the servant.
Levi Watson
>If that nigga doesn't know the difference between an Abjuration and an Adder, then why are you going to give that link?
the hardest part is picking spells. the rest isn't all that complicated and you can learn by doing. but there's a guide for that stuff too:
It's the thing really. I don't really even play wizards so idk how all their spells work, but as long as I get Misty Step, Faerie Fire and maybe Healing Word, I'm happy. Maybe throw in something to deal with mundane-immune creatures and I'm pretty much going to ditch any casting class at level 5 unless it has features to keep me in.
Michael Murphy
the transmuter's stone at level 6 is cool. i think projected ward is neat too. both of those schools let you confer your class benefit to allies.
Xavier Roberts
>Enchantment Hold Person, Hold Monster, and Otto's Irresistible basically guarantee the victim gets an ass-raping.
>Illusion Hypnotic Pattern and Fear can auto-win some encounters by not letting your enemies retaliate to what the rest of your party does.
Matthew Bailey
>Hold Person, Hold Monster
why is this shit even allowed, honestly?
Aaron Parker
IIRC it's pretty easy to break from Hypnotic Pattern, and Holds are concentration spells for relatively few targets. They're nice sometimes, but kinda niche.
Jonathan Morris
Because the 12 classes shouldn't all be variations on "does damage."
One player robs several creatures of their turn, and thus prevents tons of damage. I sure hope the enemies that pass their save waste their turn waking up their allies.
If you only ever fight hordes of weak creatures I guess I understand anyone would say enchantment is pointless.
Caleb Barnes
Because humanoids are often used for minions or lower level encounters, while hold monster works on everything
Easton Barnes
Taking the toughest creature in the encounter out of the fight, providing advantage on attacks against it, and guaranteeing critical hits on it is probably worth concentration. Sometimes I think Veeky Forums never plays past level 6.
Gavin Wright
Most people only get to level 10 or so.
Christian Gomez
Based on polls this is pretty much true of most editions of D&D.
I've yet to reach level 10 in a 5e game and the closest I got to it was a campaign that started with Phandelver, and I think the one I'm starting in a month is probably going to be my first with intent to get to 10.
That said I'll take on the word of people who tried that it's a better spell than I give it credit for.
Sebastian Roberts
5e is so much easier to deal with the high level stuff compared to 3.5 and 4e. The numbers stay manageably quick to play with except when casting Meteor Swarm.
Isaiah Perry
It's not just that, people never really went above that a lot. 2E had massive amounts of dedicated support for levels 3-10 but very little above. The highest level printed module I got is 8-12. Nobody really gave a shit when High-Level Adventures came out. Even in 1E few people ever got above that.
3.5 and 4e trying to drag the playerbase into playing the whole damn 20 levels partly by trying to make them sound normal and partly by pushing Epic bullshit was kind of a big break from AD&D.
There are 2E settings where the single most powerful non BBEG NPC is level 15.
Landon Ross
Has no one ever just started at a higher level to see what the play is like? The game is boring as shit to DM until about level 10 when the players have enough power to deal with more creative stuff.
Adam Murphy
>mfw "im planning a x-5/y-15"
Nolan Baker
I actually like to DM lower level campaigns because they're usually the levels where my players do shit like try to beat up a werewolf with the silver candlestick in the mayor's office.
I kinda want to see a level 14-15 game that doesn't go above, just so we can play with all the archetype abilities unlocked.
Benjamin Green
Levels weren't exactly the same back then. For some classes past 15 or so were just a point of hp
Benjamin Jackson
High level HP bloat isn't going to sell me 3e+ high levels.
Camden Smith
I mean that they didn't gain anything else. Level 15 back then might have been closer to 20 in some ways
Hunter Morgan
Hey dudes and dudettes, so our GM in our circle of friends has finished our current campaign due to fatigue and burnout, so I want to try a hand at GMing something Is Lost Mines a good and fun slog?
Ethan Richardson
Once you have those level 14-15 abilities, anything higher level isn't really more complicated to play. Have some fun fighting ancient dragons and balors and such, or let the DM have fun making custom monsters.
Nathan Davis
>Even in 1E few people ever got above that.
You mean the edition that introduced stats for killing gods, and had an entire source book—one of the earliest—for doing just that?
Angel Gomez
I've never met a DM who ran a printed module. Everything was custom and basically kept going until enough of the group wanted to move on. My 5e games have gone from 3 to 20 because the players never hit a point where things start to be a numerical slog.
James Smith
Every edition had that.
Everything TSR and Wizard ever did indicated that almost nobody played this shit as anything but guides to building religion and sample mythical characters. Hardly anyone ever played AD&D above early name level.
Sebastian Mitchell
I've been doing D&D organized play on large scales since the 90s. You're full of shit.
Levi Reyes
Literally just Google "5e handbook"
Kevin Ortiz
Like with MtG, most players are kitchen gamers.
Brandon Diaz
>Missing out on lvl 7-9 spells
Shit son are you sure? Like if you want to just build a gish you can still be a Bladesinger
Isaac Cox
wizard's job is literally everything but damage. Evocation is like getting a Green Lantern ring and only using it to make fists and hammers.
Eli Young
Increase dcs, add creatures.
Ayden Mitchell
i said if the features don't draw me in.
Wizard and Sorc features don't; Bard, Lock and Druid features sort of do. "More spells" isn't a feature to me. At level 9 only True Polymorph interests me and it's for the most pedestrian shit (who cares about becoming a dragon when you can literally be the perfect actor).
Jaxson Hall
Added brown cards now to solve some problems I had with the list.
Wyatt Scott
Then I wish I could give you some good advice, I just think we are on completely different ends of the spectrum. Like for examples to me Fighters are the dullest fucking thing in existence.
But hey different strokes. Best of luck to you
But I must ask how are spells not a feature to you?
Henry Lee
>My party just asked to let them run through death house with level 3 characters, cause they hate level 1.
>What's the easiest way to scale it up while keeping it incredibly difficult?
Are you serious? Tell them to get good.
Lucas Nelson
Long rest bound resources feel more like a hindrance than a boon at times.
Christian Wilson
It's not a git gud sort of thing. Level one characters have basically no options.
Dylan Clark
Does /5eg/ even know what it's talking about when it discusses 4e?
4e was stretched out over 30 levels and had a slower power progression than 3.X (but not as a slow as 5e's), and its epic tier rules were very manageable.
Landon Watson
Get them to level 2 before they get to the house as a compromise?
Brody Cook
>Wizard's job is literally everything but damage.
Not the user you're looking for, but wasn't the "Wizard Problem" in older editions of DnD that they burned their powers for the day and were pretty much useless?
Sounds like to make the most of it, they had to do damage!
Any examples of how to be a non-damage Wizard effectively?
Josiah Smith
Minor Conjuration+Find Familiar Deliver vital supplies to your allies.
Matthew Cooper
At least you still get full proficiency on shitty but serviceable weapons and cantrips.
Nolan Sanchez
Lower levels suck, but are mandatory, if only as a filter to see who's there for only combat, and who's there to play the whole experience..
Juan Gray
With established groups like mine, you don't need to do that.
Ryan Davis
This was solved with cantrips actually being good this time around.
Asher Hall
>Vital supplies >...Disappears after 1 hour. >...Disappears if it takes damage, or if the wizard uses this ability again.
So what, even if you delivered "a bucket of arrows", when one arrow snapped against an enemy, would it disappear before it did damage if a party Ranger shot it?
>The object must take the form of a non-magical item which the wizard has seen before.
So it's all mundane crap! Or can you like, be the party duplicator and just crank out vials of acid?
Jonathan Sullivan
well, notably you can use conjured healing kits. Conjured bombs.
Conjured alchemist fire.
Conjured caltrops (bags of them to beat the object limit)
etc, etc.
Caleb Roberts
Cantrips are only superior for characters that aren't fighters and are above level 11 for the next boost in power.
Even then, thats only for the SCAG cantrips. I am pretty sure I would just prefer to rage and get my attacks off as a barbarian instead of even doing something like Eldritch blast at 17th lvl.
Anthony Smith
Scale it down instead. Have everything do half damage, attack at disadvantage, etc. If they want hugbox mode, give it to them.
Austin Jones
That doesn't sound fun for anybody.
Luis Watson
it's called DEATH HOUSE. if the threat of dying weren't huge there wouldn't be much of a theme, would there?
Eli Butler
They're not complaining about difficulty, just lack of fun.
I somewhat agree that level "i hit it with my sword again DM" 1 5e is kind of boring. Basically everyone is a martial at that level.
Brayden Edwards
Death House can still kill you at levels 2-3, easily. It barely doubles HP, doesn't raise proficiency, it just opens up Specializations.
Colton Richardson
If "fun" is only to be had with additional special snowflake abilities gained at higher levels, why not just bypass xp entirely?
>four 12th level badasses stroll into the mists of Ravenloft >... >four 12th level badasses stroll out of Ravenloft with Strahd's head on a pike.
Nathan Hughes
It's a house with dead people in it. That's spooky, right?
Zachary Rogers
Level 3 isn't a "higher level" in the sense I think you mean. You're grossly exaggerating the position of my players.
Notably, they don't want to eliminate all progression, they just want to start at a level that opens up more options beyond basic combat.
Noah Peterson
Don't you have another thread to piss and moan about things like Tieflings being core and rpgs being fun instead of grindfests where names like "Melf" made sense.
Jose Roberts
>more options beyond basic combat.
Like what?
Evan Evans
Rogues get their first main class feature at level 3: mage hand ledgerdomain, or use objects on a bonus action, both of which can be game changing
Warlocks get their pact feature, which offers a magical weapon, an incredibly useful familiar, or three new cantrips.
Wizards get their first school feature at level 2, many of which offer new gameplay (minor conjuration
Joshua Sullivan
Every class gets their first archetype power. Fighter gets their first feat. Warlock gets their first Invocations Half Casters get spells Sorcerers get metamagic Rogues have cunning actions Bards get song of rest and their expertise Druids get wildshape
Adrian Stewart
>Nobody in my groups is really interested in paladins/barbs/fighters/rangers
wat
How the hell do they survive even moderately difficult encounters
Julian Hughes
Lots of kiting.
Parker Carter
In my game the main martial has been the monk
Dylan Lewis
Relying on that will eventually blow up in their faces, you realize?
Matthew Harris
yeah, and I make it blow up in their faces. They're terrible heroes most of the time, because they usually run away from or end up doing work for the BBEG to keep him from potentially killing them.
Bentley Garcia
And Wizards get nothing :^)
Tyler Johnson
Ya'll motherfuckers need some paladins.
James Stewart
they tried to play a paladin once.
The player ended up trying to kill the character because he didn't want to play him anymore, but didn't want to admit it to me.
Isaiah Price
I'm a wizard with Staff of Magi, what school of magic is best :^ ) ? Don't ask how.
Brayden Lewis
Illusion.
You can make an illusion of anti-matter and then turn it real. :)
Oliver Watson
> Tfw group of friends finishing up mines of phanelver soon > Want to GM, but I can't tell if they're just a generally terrible group or need help/experience with the game > Also never GMed or played before, but surfed Veeky Forums for a couple years I've sat in on a few sessions and I'm pretty sure it's mostly GM incompitence, but I just don't know. I mean, they never roleplay and the players haven't haven't even read the rulebook, and the GM forgets shit half the time. But they're having fun.
Charles Green
>playing paladin >just did the werewolf quest (no idea what it's called, out of the spooky town) >find magic whip, the one with alertness shit >party agrees to give it to me, since I'm human and most of the party are elves, so they have trance >I realize I'm becoming Simon Belmont How can i further enforce this archetype? Carry around holy water?
Owen Turner
If they're having fun, how can you call it a failure, or incompetence?
Evan Barnes
Die to a random bat
William Walker
Good idea. What's the DC for spotting a wall chicken?
Carter Kelly
Holy Water Maybe Martial Adept or DD (if you have the dex)
Dylan Ortiz
There was this particular adventure style ran by someone but I can't remember the name of the adventure or anything about it. Instead of having an explored map, parties would move, hex by hex, into an uncharted land, discovering new locations and stuff. Also, the party wasn't always the same group of people, and everyone involved could speak to one another with the goal being to find treasure and seek glory.
Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Bentley Allen
It's called a hex crawl.
Easton Lopez
Hand axes and daggers for throwing. Holy water for throwing. Crosses for HOLY CROSSing.