Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Darkmoon Fair burying people alive was a pretty cool notion too.

Well, if that was the case they wouldn't have made those zones/quests so interesting in the first place.

But seriously, they only chose Darkshire because of the name. This is ridiculous.

Dude, the Malygos in the tabletop RPG books sounded way cooler then what the game got.

He was supposed to be really tiny even for a dragon, and he casted spells with his claws, like a mage, they gave another dragon a stand up and cast model, but not Malygos, kind of lame.

I swear to god, the way personalami draws women...

They're kinda samefacey tho.

Even Knaak's Malygos was better than the one in Wrath. He was crazy, sure, but it was the fairly understandable loopiness of having lived in guilt-laden isolation and despair for thousands of years, rather than the sudden and arbitrary malice he showed in game. Also, his humanoid form was a nerubian, which was neat.

Day of the Dragon was a clumsy book in a many ways, but I still think the Aspects were one of its legit strong contributions to the lore.

>old deathwing was way cooler than new deathing
He doesn't even have his hookah

Speaking of the Darkmoon Faire, what the hell do you think is up with them? There's way too much creepy shit on their island for them to just be a bunch of harmless entertainers.

As I understand it, the Dragon Aspects were created by the Titans. Do we know if this was a thing all Titans can do? When [sp]Elune[/sp] wakes up, could she make new Dragon Aspects?

>tfw used to RP in a scarlet crusade guild back in vanilla and BC
I miss the Crusade.

>Being this ass ravaged over the villains actually doing shit

What happened to Darkshire?

The Legion corrupted the Night Watch.

This is, what, the fourth expansion in a row to feature an Alliance settlement being ruined?

Emyr? Malakov? Manari? Myth? pls respond

Speaking of dragon aspects. I hope Wrathion have a larger role in the future. As the only Black Dragon that has not been corrupted by the old gods, the fate of his clan rests on his shoulders.

I also like his design. His Mortal form [human] is unique even when compared to the traditional human looks in the game.

>Cataclysm: Darkshore
>MoP: Theramore
>WoD: Nethergarde
>Legion: Darkshire

Holy shit you're right.

And the Horde still have all their stuff.

But they also keep changing leaders and their fanboys have to keep playing mental gymnastics to explain why they're good guys, so maybe it's a trade-off.

On that note, I'm happy Lakeridge is still untouched. There was always something really nice about that place.

He looks a lot like a djinn

I would love to see a returning black dragonflight as the good guys.

There's that Tauren place that got rekt, forgot the name.

He almost acts like one too.

Granting you artifacts of crazy power as long as you play the pawn, knight, rook, and king in his personal agendas.

I believe it is because he has a more Arabian/Persian style going for him than the usual Medieval Europe thing the rest of the human models have.

I am hoping for this. Wrathion redeems his clan from the devastation and corruption Deathwing has caused. They become good again fights alongside the other dragonflights like old times.

Lakeridge is the last surviving bit of pre-1st war Stormwind society

It was somewhere in Thousand Needles. Considering Tauren are the most ignored Horde race I guess at least something is better than nothing. And not like Thousand Needles was ever really popular.

I think it's telling the roles have almost completely reversed. Whereas before Horde were the scrappy underdogs in the power dynamic, it largely feels like Alliance have taken that role. They always get the short end of the stick every time something bad happens, while the Horde just seems to get stronger. And unlike Horde, who turn their leaders into raid bosses the second things go south, the Alliance just tightens its belt and gets right to work.

>It was somewhere in Thousand Needles.

It was probably Camp Taurajo in the Barrens.

Just checked, this is correct.

Alliance destroyed it because muh settlements.

Which honestly feels totally out of character for Alliance the past few xpacs.

Freewind Post got rekt by Grimtotems, Camp Taurjo got rekt by the Alliance

...

Dallan. Must've been different guilds. Emyr sounds familiar, though...

Suddenly everyone in the city is a cultist.

Which server?

What about that guy is Blade's Edge? Sabellian.

There were several Alliance town rekted in Cataclysm. The Horde only had one, and the Alliance got fingers wagged at them for it.

Only the Horde is allowed to conquer/kill guilt-free.

Thorium Brotherhood.

>Cataclysm: Darkshore
There was also Southshore, a solid chunk of Stormwind, Silverwind Refuge and the flight point in Azshara, and that's not even counting places that were more for fluff than game functions, like the Hillsbrad farms, the Stonewrought Dam, Dun Garok...

You'd think it would make more sense for this to happen in an actual demon-infested area. Like Felwood or Ashenvale.

I remember they also changed Durotar to involve a more invasive Stormwind presence, in order to make the faction war aggression look less one-sided.

he's completely disconnected from the rest of the Black Dragonflight, he was the only survivor of Deathwing's clutch on Draenor

...

>literally just a reskinned centaur quest
That was a common thing in Cataclysm, just replacing minor factions and races with Alliance/Horde mooks because who needs variety when you're putting the WAR back in WARcraft?

See I like to think Northwatch was just expanding so they could keep an eye on Durotar, and the Horde propaganda machine turned it into a military invasion.

Of course, expanding into and building a keep in someone's territory is kinda dickish, but they had to reinforce Tirargarde after the Cataclysm.

I'm also reminded of the Vashj'ir questline. The Horde version starts with the Horde's military wing finding out about an island that showed up off the coast of Eastern Kingdoms. They mount an expedition explicitly for the purpose of using the island as a staging ground to invade Stormwind.

The Alliance version is launched to stop Horde privateers.

Wasn't it Camp Taurajo? It was in Barrens.

>Stormwind *had* to reinforce a foreign nation's holdings in enemy territory
uhhh

Welcome to geopolitics, lad. It's only bad if the other guy's doing it.

In some instances. I can't think of many others off the top of my head.

The replaced the Defias guys in Northshire with Blackrock orcs, but they aren't really part of the player Horde, right? Unless they joined up after Cataclysm.

by Cataclysm, the Blackrock are the only orc clan on Azeroth that hasn't joined the New Horde, they even let the Dragonmaw back in

>WAR back in WARcraft
Blizzard never should have listened to that part of the fanbase. Everything went south when they did.

>b-but muh werl pee vee pee
plaguing of Southshore best day of my life

Don't get wrong, I agree it is a pretty aggressive move.

But considering the Horde has no shortage of fortified positions a stone's throw away from many Alliance strongholds, I can see why Stormwind would be less than keen about giving up one of their few footholds in that part of Kalimdor.

Sabellian wasn't born from that clutch. He's the same age as Onyxia and Nefarian. He was one of the dragons who came with Deathwing.

He's the oldest living black dragon now.

Is he actually living or merely suspended in the limbo of "forgotten by the devs", meaning they'll come up with something suitably ignominious to preserve Wrathion's special snowflake status?

Right now, probably forgotten by the devs but who knows?

Honestly, those hot spots around the world where conflict escalated from the cold war status made so much more sense than outright war between the factions.

Which is a shame, because if that was how the Alliance had been behaving everywhere, I would be far happier with the horde/alliance dynamic

Only place I know where Alliance gets really aggressive towards the Horde is anywhere north of Khaz Modan. So Arathi, Lordaeron, Alterac, etc.

Which makes sense because all that used to belong to them.

>Sylvanas is the new Warchief in Legion
>Genn Greymane is the new leader of the Alliance

So is Blizzard totally setting Sylvanas up to turn heel and be the next final boss of an expansion?

It definitely runs contrary to general ethos the Alliance purports to represent, but at the same time I don't find it too difficult to imagine a hothead general, perhaps someone like Garithos, taking out his frustrations for being posted at the ass end of nowhere on some inhuman cows.

>implying they won't have Genn be the final boss with a bunch of his moves from Heroes of the Storm added in
enjoy dodging molotov cocktails for 15 months

I dunno, it feels like they're totally setting up for Genn to get back at Sylvanas for killing his son and ruining his country.

Then Sylvanas has been a creator's pet since the game began so I could see her getting away with everything scott-free too.

In between him wolfing out, of course.

>Tell me what happened at Taurajo.

Ah yes, our assault on the Horde town of Taurajo. I struggled with the implications of the decision.

Taurajo was admittedly what you might call a 'soft target,' primarily a hunters' camp. Still, it had been used to recruit, equip, and train Horde infantry for many years.

When our scouts reported that Taurajo's most dangerous units were out on the hunt, we had to act quickly.

>We sacked the town?

I would prefer not to use the term 'sacked,' but yes, the attack went off flawlessly. We removed Taurajo from the equation, confiscated its arms, and destroyed its smithing facilities. The assault gave our forces considerable breathing room and knocked the enemy off balance.

Nonetheless, during the assault, I instructed my men to leave a gap open in our lines...

>Why did you do that?

Taurajo had a significant civilian population. I wanted to ensure that they could escape the fighting, and many did, finding refuge in the north.

There are some, even in Alliance High Command, who argued that I let an opportunity slip away. That I should've taken hostages. But I don't see the value in those sort of terror-tactics.

Hear me out, [name]: I want this war to end someday. It won't ever stop if we butcher or imprison civilians.

I just pray that there are those on the other side who see things as I do.

Going by the battlegrounds, you have Arathi highlands where it's clear cut case of the living humans defending themselves from aggression by the undead scum. On the other hand, the undead can seem to have some semblance of claim since they used to be lordaeron citizens, if you squint hard enough.

In contrast Stormpikes have absolutely no business pestering those harmless frostwolves and the conflict is showcase for how Dwarves are alike with Men in belief in their supremacy.

In a way that is a theme that runs throughout Alliance - you have things like freedom and justice, sure, but they are accompanied by undercurrent of sanctimoniousness, imperialism and aristocracy. All member nations have background that would justify them feeling this way: Men, Dwarves, Night elves... Gnomes are a bit odd ones out in this, but they seem to stay out of politics (at least out of plain sight).

Neat

Respect

I miss the Horde being underdogs

It made the Horde possible, when they were so close to annihilation at all times. Now that their positions are secure, the entire faction is nonsensical

>i left a gap in my line to funnel the enemy civilians straight into the camps of their genocidal ancestral enemies
>wait, why are you guys trying to kill me?
>AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHH, SAVE ME, VARIAN

>The alliance destroys Taurajo
>But they have an excellent reason for doing so, and let the civilians go free

FUCK

Why can't the Alliance just be jerks for ONCE?

>Objectives

>Speak with Karthog, then lure out and assassinate General Hawthorne.

> General Hawthorne slain

>Description

>This operative had orders to secure the roadways between the Alliance command and Fort Triumph. General Hawthorne is on the move.

>

>It's HIM, ! Hawthorne - I spit the name - he is the one who ordered the assault on Taurajo! Now we know when and where to strike him down. Quickly, follow the road north of the Battlescar and meet up with my assassin Karthog. CRUSH Hawthorne and string his body up along the road!
Completion

>

>So it is done! The Butcher of Taurajo is felled at last. Cut down in the streets like a dog. Fitting.

>You have done well, . You've sowed fear into our enemies, and soon we will reap the harvest!

[F]

>In contrast Stormpikes have absolutely no business pestering those harmless frostwolves and the conflict is showcase for how Dwarves are alike with Men in belief in their supremacy.
In fairness, the Frostwolves are foreign colonists with no actual claim to that land. In fact, I'm not sure why they're there at allwhen they followed Thrall to Kalimdor. Drek'thar even shows up as a questgiver in Rexxar's campaign.

Because the Alliance is made up of proper races who are capable of higher thinking. Not a motley collection of savages and abominations against god.

We are outnumbered here, our ties to Crossroads and Durotar severed. But one orc is worth 10 Alliance cowards.
We will bottle them up in this pass and gut them like swine.

>Kilrok, how did we lose Honor's Stand?

It was a clever ruse, . Alliance forces streamed out of Northwatch and marched up the gold road, besieging Crossroads as dusk fell. Then, in the heart of the night, they force-marched southward, leaving their campfires burning behind.

Our meager forces at Honor's Stand were caught unawares as the Alliance poured through the pass at dawn's first light. Many of our bravest warriors fell before their blades.

>This was before the Cataclysm?

Yes. We regrouped east of the pass and prepared a counter-attack, but the next day, the skies reddened and the land was cleaved in two, as easily as a child might split open a cactus apple. See how the devastation stretches from horizon to horizon?

Our Alliance foes in their makeshift bunkers were as surprised and disorganized as we were by the disaster. It would've been the perfect time to strike! But Warlord Gar'dul insisted we pull back to the south to refortify.

Not all of us followed. I stood toe-to-toe with demons in the last war, . I'm not about to turn tail and let the Alliance plant roots on my soil.

>You and your men stayed behind to fight.

To fight, yes. To die? Likely. But we will give them no ground, .

We are outnumbered. Our armor is patchwork, our weapons scavenged.

But this is our land! Our tauren allies know every hidden trail, crevice, and pass through these hills. We descend from the high ground where they last expect us, then disappear into the terrain like phantoms. Fear is our weapon, and we will strike at them unceasingly.

They didn't have a Wildhammer fact checker back then to keep track of NPCs

>Nonetheless, during the assault, I instructed my men to leave a gap open in our lines...
>>Why did you do that?
>Taurajo had a significant civilian population. I wanted to ensure that they could escape the fighting, and many did, finding refuge in the north.

>the Horde literally gets a quest to go and mourn all the civilians that got slaughtered

See As far as half of Blizzard is concerned, the Alliance are jerks even when they're totally reasonable (which is about 90% of the time).

The whole story for the region is how the assault on Taurajo was a complete fuck up on the Alliance side and the general feels awful about it and the Horde have him assassinated.

Well he does say "many did", not all.
Plus he doesn't say where he made the opening, those civilians might have been easily funneled into less than friendly territory as said.
And finally he might've been bullshitting when asked about the incident, although that seems not very likely since anyone in his force could snitch on him.

sounds like the Horde did them a favor then, removing an incompetent bleeding heart so they could find someone better suited to actually winning the war

Well if you take into consideration that he was capable of organizing the attack well, that would make him a decently competent commander.
And since retaliation would have come regardless, at least in this instance his bleeding heart did not show itself as liability (offscreen it might have even been an asset with his men).

So no, they did not do alliance any favours.

>Alliance in the Barrens

Those scheming cowards! They march here, into OUR land and attack OUR settlements? I spit on them. Bring me their leader's head FOR THE HORDE.

>Horde in Pandaria
Lok'tar ogar! What a beautiful new continent to kill Alliance on! You, fat bears, join the HORDE! What? No? Fine, we're just gonna hold onto your kids until you come to your senses. FOR THE HORDE!

actually the quests are literally about what a whinny faggot that alliance general is and his right hand man is implied to be involved in his death because he was getting so tired of his liberal bullshit

its almost a meta quest about how players feel about alliance actions and attitude

>at least in this instance his bleeding heart did not show itself as liability
it did, or Vendetta Point would be one guy sitting alone next to a quilboar camp waiting for reinforcements to show up instead of a small military encampment that was capable of putting up a fight against the Alliance and protecting the gate to Mulgore from being destroyed

Taurajo is the kind of thing they needed more of in Cata. It riled up both sides, and they both look reasonable from their own perspective but monstrous from the other side. I would buy something like Taurajo (but on a much larger scale) reigniting the war, but there aren't really many examples like it elsewhere.

after the worgen joined the Alliance, Garrosh couldn't allow a furry gap, so the pandaren had to join the Horde one way or another

I have not forgotten my brush with death at the hands of the quilboar in that filthy jungle. The General here has ordered some tactical strikes, but he stops short of genocide. I have no such qualms.

Take this horn that I 'borrowed' during my negotiations. Blow the horn within the Bristleback challenge ring west of our position - you can't miss it. I want you to challenge the champion of the Bristleback, Sabersnout, to single combat. His death in front of his followers will leave them in utter chaos.

The General is too preoccupied with the looters in Taurajo. Too soft! We ought to be focused on our next move against the Horde.

There's valuable intelligence that might be compromised if we allow the ruins of Taurajo to continue to burn. While you're running the General's errand, dig around for any maps or notes you can find. I can speak a little of the orcish tongue - I'll be able to make sense of what you find.

What have you dug up for me? Hmm. Interesting. This notice from Orgrimmar indicates a change in Horde leadership is underway - I guess heads are going to roll after what we did to Taurajo.

What's this? A death warrant for the General here! This is good to know... Very good to know...

>one of the few reasonable-seeming NPCs in Warcraft gets Bolton'd.

being "reasonable" in the wrong situation is the same thing as being unreasonable user

Of course it is. I just think it's a good indicator of how crappy this world is.

Plus I think this dynamic is a great way to add some more depth to the Alliance. They usually get pretty shallow characterization.

The Warcraft setting (at least post-Cataclysm) is such a cluster of poorly thought-out nonsense, retcons, and general poor writing and worldbuilding that I can't see how anyone could be interested in it desu.

Warcaft lore has always been stupid even before Cataclysm.

The Lich King is a human prince possessed by the ghost of a dead alien frozen inside a helmet by an evil space demon.

Sargeras is an ancient space god who turned evil because he saw too much evil in the world.

Dwarves were created to be the personal Lego men of celestial beings who built the universe for science.

It's all silly, and sometimes it feels like the setting is being made by a team of a dozen writers who aren't allowed to talk to each other or share ideas.

And it's still fun to talk about it.

it's not pre-Cataclysm lore, but the fact that apparently the Titans turn planets that don't have a world-soul into 40K-style death worlds for shits and giggles is kind of amusing

I dunno, none of those ideas sound that bad.

"There's a flying hell spawn roaming the world randomly torching places, but hey, we should go fight those green people instead" is pretty pants-on-head retarded though.

Most of that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is how the Legion spans all dimensions. That either makes fighting them completely pointless, or makes them into the most incompetent evil force in fiction.