Horus Heresy General /hhg

I don't know, they are nomadic after all.

10k years is a lot to get from one edge of the galaxy to another.

Problem is the Ashen Claws legion is active at legion strength in the Ghoul Stars in 40k, harvesting chapter sides batches of inductees at a time so they cannot be the same unless the Sharks are a splinter faction.

It DOES make sense that if they were they would get as far from the legion as possible, however the HH books have been dropping some pretty heavy hints that the Sharks are founded by a Loyalist Jago Sevatar. The last story pretty much has him state his opinion about what he thinks he should be doing and it is a almost line by line description of the Sharks.

We will see.

All hail Space Sharks!

Which do you really want, Renegade Renegades Sharks based on a FW book or HH fluff supported Sharks founded by the Galaxies greatest master of dynamic entry?

Also would clear up all the fluff mentions of no one in the NL known where the hell he went after the Heresy.

Seems wierd that he was a loyalist deep inside.

i welcome any cool HH fludd, by th Fw :^)

>It DOES make sense that if they were they would get as far from the legion as possible, however the HH books have been dropping some pretty heavy hints that the Sharks are founded by a Loyalist Jago Sevatar
You say what now?

Not quite a Loyalist yet but as of his current status turning into a pretty cool dude. Cooler dude, i mean it is hard to go up after you Kool Aid Man the Lion's flagship but still...Pretty obvious Malcador is gonna grab his ass pretty soon. You don't just leave a guy who has a legit chance to solo a Primarch.

Seriously my sir Lorgar, you've had too much Fenrisian ale just sit down. Sire the others already make fun of us, just ignore him. Who cares what Jago said, you don't even have a mother sire. Sire wait.....

>pushes Eliphas out of the way
>stumbles across the bar
>"I am the Lord of the Word and you jackal will show resp...."
>"oh look the pussy found some balls after my daddy had to save his ass from uncle Corax"
>Laughingjago.jpg
>barstools fly across room
>Lorgar flies out of window
>Jago goes back to his drinking

Did he crump Lorgar?

Seems Lorgar would kick his ass.

What's the best BL book to read if I want to get under the skin of the Raven Guard & Corax, like really get to know them like Betrayer does for WE or Scars for WS. I get the impression none are the RG books are that great, but would still like to know more about them, Wayland and Sharrowkyn's dysfunctional buddy cop routine (he's a cyborg artificer, he's a stealthy freedom fighter, together they fight crime) has me intrigued.

A joke based on Lorgar having terrible stats for a Primarch. Jago not only has better WS and attacks than him but if it is the baseline un upgraded Lorgar and Jago succecceds in a psychic check there is a real chance Jago can (hilariously IMHO) beat him using the power of the Warp.

Overall due to his primarch statline Lorgar will almost always win but on the tabletop jago is a better fighter than him and can conceivably tie him up for a while, but unfortunately for jago he can't really wound that well so Lorgar will eventually get a shot in and squish him. Older eds Jago would be better off but i believe even if you can use them against a Primarch you can only get in one hit with a krak gernade in hth.

If it wasn't for Eternal Warrior Jago would cut him (and most other Primarchs) down in one round though.

IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT

Why did Corax hate them?

Because they didn't fight for the ideals of a free society. They fought because they enjoyed killing. Corax wanted no part of them in his legion but he didn't actively try to kill them, just sent them off elsewhere.

>however the HH books have been dropping some pretty heavy hints that the Sharks are founded by a Loyalist Jago Sevatar
What hints?

Literally none. There's more hints that Sevetar will be a Grey Knight than there are of him having anything to do with the Carcharodons.

Poor Lorgar.

At least he is one of the best buff-marchs..r-right?

Oh, I see.

We've been rused?

I am putting together a Leviathan dread. Is it worth sticking a Melta on the thing since most armor will have ceramite.?

Personally I'd be happy if Sev's story ends on Terra. That's a pretty cool goal for him to have, (having gone to the trouble of becoming a traitor he's going to damn well make sure he gets to invade the throneworld,) and it would be a neat way to end his arc.

Does anyone else not like the idea of having a Primarch in their army? Most people I play with always want to have their Primarch in, but it just doesn't feel great to have an established character leading the army.

Maybe i'm just a big Your Dudes guy, maybe I just fucking hate Mortarion. Probably both.

There is NL guy who painted the las-cannon squad last thread.

Are you the one always trying to put a Librarian into the Death Guard?

Eh, Mortarion's a cool guy, and his legion more than most would be led by him on any given engagement, if only because they didn't split as much as the other legions, but I do get the sentiment - Your Dudes is a big part of how and why people play.

It's just that most Primarchs (bar Angron) just have such good support effects, even ignoring their personal prowess, not taking one can sadly be a bit of a shot in the foot at times

Depends what it's entry method will be, if it's in a Pod give it claw and drill. For foots log give it the quad linked autocannon

Foot, I am using "The Reaping" so I can't user Drop-pods.

Nah, I just run a single Deathshroud as a praetor

That's what they have argued for the most part in my local store as to why they field them, they do so much as a force multiplier. Just sucks to see them leading the charge every single game I play.

Every game?
I can understand your gripe then.

I would not field Horus because I think my painting skills would not do him justice.

>Eh, Mortarion's a cool guy,

He got defeated by one punch. He is the ultimate jobber.

Didn't he keep Kaedes "Columbine" Nex within the bulk of his army? Several RG Moritats were but a few steps away from earning khornate ears

You could not agree with the mini and say that the bald rebreathing-lacking dude is just some big Death Guard marine for you instead of the real Mortarion :^)

>10 Legion Reconnaissance, snipers 250
This unit is over costed and sniper rifles are over costed.

Swap them out for a legion support squad of some sort.

Trade them out for a

>one punch
>jobber
It's not Mortarion's fault he gets beat by everyone. The writers have it in for him like Dorn except Mortarion's aware of this.

>He got defeated by one punch
Perturabo's ambush fleet got defeated by noobie Alexis on his first day of command.
Fulgrim got 360 no-scoped
Guilliman was about to be finished of but got saved because monologue.
An IH cell manages to ambush and heavily injure both Horus and Fulgrim
Emps almost gets Vortex'd to death by regular humans, and almost gets bearhugged to death by an Ork.
Being a demigod doens't means you're invulnerable or undefeatable, you know?
And everyone gets defeated by Red Claw Man or Scoria anyway :^)

I know were you're coming from, it's sort of weird to see primarchs walking around in small point games and while i don't have a problem with people doing it, fluffing it by saying its just one part of the battle doesn't feel right.
But Your Dudes all the way, the Legions are big enough to do that.

Terminator squad with 8 axes. Should I make it 10 or throw in a pair of fists or chainfists?

Well, it depends. Chainfists are always a good thing to have against vehicles, and that many axes might be overkill.

I always have at least a couple of Chainfists per Squad to easily open up vehicles. But then again that's a personal anecdote with no basis in mathematics or probability.

Do whatever you want. I'd definitely include some fists and some weapons that strike at initiative.

Did the World Eaters ever have white and red as their colors, or did they go straight white and blue -> red and gold? That Red Butcher is the only example of red and white I've seen, which makes sense for that unit, but on the whole army it could look good.

You allways add some twin LC etc?
Does it work well?

They changed from blue to red, then to wholly red.

Angry ron was allways red and thereforewhat tainted the war hounds , qed.

I think on the same book (6) there's a Vindicator painted white and red, which says the legion had recently incorporated plenty of red bits as part of their new colour scheme.

main problem is i need somewhere to put the exodus, at which point, i may as well give them snipers

I speak in theory, I have never played a match of 30k, only 40k back in the 5th ed.

This was still before Angron's ascendancy I'm guessing? I plan to use him at times and wouldn't want to run them red if they were only red after daemonhood.

Might make sense for sons of Horace , due to merciless attacks.

I thought Ron always had gold with red face paint.

Well the WB attack Calth on book 5, and this is book 6, and Angron ascended on his return to Nuceria, which is near the Ultramar realm?
So, I dont know .-.

Which older edition rules would be interesting to use with 30k? 2E? 1E?

The red angel is the canker at the heart of the XIIIth!

The red angel is the cankerat the heart of the XIIIth!

Some of the ones from deliverance were criminals that he gave pardons to and who subsequently became marines for participating in his rebellion, basically NL lite. The ones from Terra he hated because their ancestors were from a slaver society. Not because they did anything wrong mind you, Corax just hated what their for fathers did even though the Terran Marines had nothing to do with that and didn't even remember what their ancestors had done.

It is actually pretty damn shitty of him, it is a serious asshole move.

No.
His story is starting to get get kinda weird, the last one confirmed that NL really do have a odd sweet spot for psychic chicks.

He was an exception, most of them he deliberately tried to get killed.

Even if the Ashen Claws started as RG and even if they doubled their number while they were gone (if they are stealing NG geneseed then they are definitely getting new initiates of their own prior to that) the fact that they stole the seed from such a huge number of NL means they aren't really RG any more, especially since they hate Corax so much.

If Lorgar isnt the best buff-march, who us?

Alpharius?
Girly-man?
Fulgrim?

Angron's fearless bubble :^)

;^)

Depends on what you want. Fulgrim is lulzy for routing half your army turn 2 without actually doing much killing, Alpharius is good at boosting the army overall.

Despite being EC my favourite primarch is probably Angron, hilarious numbers of attacks, hits everything in 30k on a 3+, can challenge all the important people in a unit, and due to characters and RoW can get up to a 3+ FnP.

He can? How? I mean he lacks LA rule (attached Surlak would mean everyone gets a 3+ fnp)

I have a very important question that needs answering. One of the pages in the Vision of Heresy copy was corrupted and is missing from the copies online. Can someone tell me what page it was?

I just wished they had used the alternate Fulgrim sculpt...

I'm the same way

That's me. And yes, I have a fluff explanation. Said Libby may be a traitor but he's like "Man, fuck Mortarion! Let me tell you guys about the word of Nurgle"

>weapons that strike at initiative

Is that so important? I mean, at best they'll be hitting at the same time with the enemy. Most weapons that can really hurt them would hit at Iniative 1 as well and often found on models with (possible) 2+ save (sergeants, terminators, etc.) So a power sword or lightning claw's AP3 doesn't do much against them.

horus

makes vet tacticals troops, makes justaerin troops, can noscatter deepstrike with his unit on any turn after turn 1 of his choosing without rolling for it, gives his whole army outflank, gives his whole army +1 LD, has a s10 ap2 orbital bombardment. is the best duelist, has a 3++, gets d3 extra attacks when hes fighting against guys ws4 or lower, so he can still mulch units.

horus is broken 2bh, he gives too many buffs considering hes still a monster in cc.

Personally I think they never changed colours they just gave up washing off blood

He also has the best modely!

Truly, the SoH are blessed.

Especially if you think about Lorgar only granting some of his buffs when he is on the table or visible...

so, he's Calas Typhon?

That is what happened to some of them.

Not that user but Typhon must have had others to follow his plan of sabotaging the entire death guard fleet and following Nurgle, like his own Nurglite cult within the legion. One man alone cannot just do that.

>Especially if you think about Lorgar only granting some of his buffs when he is on the table or visible...
Don't forget that at least 3 armies have 10 man deep striking units (UM, IW, DG termis) that can easily waste him with a single round of ranged fire AND are tough enough in H2H that if he survives then charges (with a shit ton of wounds from shooting) they will probably kill him.

if you are running lorgar and he isnt in an invisible spartan with 10x GVs or terminators with fists, who are also invisible, then you are doing it wrong.

>gal vorbak will become obsolete in post-shadow crusade campaigns
top fucking kek faggots

I like your idea.
Should be a later Traitor row.

You get acess to the Lore of Nuthle with it and other proto Plague Marine shenanigans.

Wot,why?

Because the last of the Gal Vorbak, Argel Tal, was killed on Nuceria. His chapter Vakrah Jal remains, but these possessed are of lesser quality.
Just kidding though, I hope they don't make this mad move, both the models and rules are sweet.

While on the subject of Word Bearers, can Mhara Gal Dreadnought be transported in a drop pod, of any kind?
There's nothing on it.

How do I use Rampagers in a way they aren't outclassed by FC Vets with power weapons

honestly they are worse than cataphractii with fists if you are running invisible lorgar

invisible lorgar is probably the strongest primarch. hes basically loth, but an even better psyker, with a primarch statline and a s8 ap2 weapon at initiative.

Never mind, I found it in the archives. It was page 117 that was corrupt. Well, here it is, hopefully uncorrupt this time. Now the Visions Volume 1 PDFs can actually be complete.

The chapter could always have an elite of Gal Vorbak equivalents while the rest are barely controlled demon hosts.

Just like the traitor legions will soon be.

>Dude, where's my Land Speeder?

But they outclass them in coolness, which is the most important factor.

That's the thing, there were no possessed like Gal Vorbak.

The Codex gets implemented at 021.M31.

"Dude, Horus just croaked. What now?"

Abaddon re-tied his topknot. He totally had an idea. "I totally have an idea," he said. The Traitor Legions looked on expectantly. "Here's what we do. We run away."

Many helmed heads nodded. This seemed a wise course of action.

"Good idea," said Erebus.

'Hush." Abaddon frowned at the interruption. "But I think we should leave behind our jetbikes, Dreadclaws, Whirlwinds, Landspeeders - pretty much all anti-grav technology, really - as well as our bikes, attack bikes, and pretty much anything else we've used so far."

Fewer helms nodded this time. "Dude," said Lucius the Eternal, "we might need all that stuff. Some of that stuff is rad."

"Nah, I've made up my mind. Let's just go."

"But..."

"Let's. Just. Go." Abaddon waved the Talon of Horus. Its scythe-blade fingers made clickety-click sounds.

"Okay, let's just go," agreed Lucius.

Kharn wasn't so easily placated. "What about Cyclone Launchers? Because I saw those in Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, so we must be using th--"

"I feel like I'm talking to myself, here." Abaddon pointed a claw at the World Eater. It poked Kharn in the eye.

"Ow, Jesus, man. Okay, okay. We'll go."

"Yeah, that's what I thought."

Abaddon pimp-walked from the room, strutting like he owned the place.

"Hey, what about this conversion beamer?" asked Typhus. "Couldn't we use these in Rogue Trader? These are awesome. They go, like, FWOOOOOSH."

"Leave it!" Abaddon's voice called from the other room. Typhus put it down, grumbling.

Thanks!

Fabius Bile sort of shrugged. "So, uh, can I come with you guys? Because I was checking the passenger lists, and none of the Legions are taking their Apothecaries. I mean... don't you need us?"

Lucius patted his brother on the shoulder. "It's okay, man. We'll allude to the Apothecaries in the background text. I mean, you won't get to ever do anything, but you'll sort of be there in the fluff, y'know? A bit? Maybe?"

"Balls to this. I'm leaving the Legion. I'll make my own rules."

Kharn snorted. "Your rules will be lame for competitive play. Just watch. And people will call you Fabulous Bill."

The Traitors walked from the chamber, out to the landing pad. It was deserted.

"Uh, Abbs?"

Abaddon turned to Ahriman. "S'up?"

"Um." The Thousand Son gestured to the empty landing pad. "Where are all our gunships?"

Abaddon ignored him. "Weren't you red a minute ago?"

"We're blue now. It's... it's this whole... thing. Look, seriously, where are our Thunderhawks?"

"Oh, right. Them." Abaddon toyed with his topknot, swishing it back and forth, like a kitten with a fluffy toy. "We won't need those. We can run everywhere and stuff. Or push Rhinos out of hangers and ride them through the atmosphere. It'll be cool."

The Traitors shared a glance. This wasn't going well. Abaddon noticed their hesitation, and sought to calm them. "Relaaaaax. I'll invent new stuff. Like... spider robots with daemons in, and they have claws and stuff. They'll defile things. Maybe they can be called Defilotrons. It'll be sweet. And they'll have a gun on their chests, and tiny little heads. What? Why are you looking at me like that? You just wait. We'll rock this place all to hell."

I know but I'm suggesting that the traitor legions will get worse as we get closer to Terra as they get closer to their modern versions.

But Horus has an AP2 Orbital bombardment, and those terminators lack ranged AP2 weapons, so they get remove 1.1~1.8 wounds at best.

And Horus is never alone, he's always rolling with his 2W Justaerin. You can only drown his tarpit in cheap waves of Vorax and even then hope for the best.

>Imperial Fists don't have a unit that is equipped solely with Power Fists

And the loyalists will change alongside them, most of the legions at least, as the war progresses.

Protip: You don't :^)
Maybe use the +1I caedere weapon and go first, accompained by a a chaplain (rerolls to hit on top of their reroll ones to wound) and give them all jump packs to give them superb mobility, while using the +1FnP rite to get a 5+ FnP on their own.
Congrats, you're spending 30 pts per dude. 5 more and you'd be getting a 2+/4++, a combi-bolter and a power weapon.
Don't try to outshine Veterans because they won't do it. Send them against MCs.

>"Storm shield + Power Fist Terminators"
There you go.