Why does everybody hate kender, Veeky Forums?

I wonder if everyone has ever played Kender at all.

Probably not, do they appeal to anyone at all?

I've seen one Kender player. She had big tits so the neckbeards at the table put up with her antics so they could keep looking at her enormous tits.

Maybe that's the thing they forgot to add to the race description. Everyone puts up with their thieving gypsy ways because they've got big tits.

anyone*

Probably lolsorandumb CG-Bard-spork-of-doom-players, but chances are Kender are still too obscure for them.

They're a made-up problem. Everyone on Veeky Forums has apparently had annoying kender players in every single game they've played, but I strongly doubt that is the case. I've never seen anyone play or talk about Kender outside of Veeky Forums.

>kender
>pvp
Only gonna happen if you initiate on the kender, if he's being played remotely properly.

H-has anyone here actually READ the core DL novels that feature Tas?

>always
>without fail
This is why you talk to your party about things like 'expectations' and 'trajectory of play'. Moreover, the original DL characters were more or less pregens with the innate assumption that the group had known each other long before the adventure started.

As a DM I'd be waaaaaaaAAAaaay more concerned about a kender's lack of a fear response than the filching thing. You can make OOC bonds that the kender lays off items X, Y, or Z, but it's harder to tune around other personality traits.

I used to run DL games; played kender, ran kender, never once had an issue. Because with a reasonable players there's nothing wrong with saying "Ayo, Namefag Mcfunnywords, I don't think I'll ever use this or that, but definitely need you to lay off these." OOC.

>gypsies
the worst type of people
>midget
the most awkward common physical deformity

They're less of a problem nowadays because everyone (rightfully) banishes people who want to play kender from their games before they get off the ground. Because everyone has heard the stories and knows the stereotypes and has read the race writeup enough to know that kender == shitcock.

There's really no reason to even want to play a kender outside of being a shitcock; if you want to be a halfling, be a halfling. The only thing being a kender specifically would theoretically gain you is a bullshit "but it's my character!" line.

>They're a made-up problem. Everyone on Veeky Forums has apparently had annoying kender players in every single game they've played

I doubt they're as big of a problem now but I would be willing to bet back when DL was super popular you probably had Kender coming out your ass. Its the same problem with drizzit clones. People bitch about it because it was a huge problem a decade or two ago and it makes a good story, not because there's some asshole that wants to play that character now in the far flung future of 2016

Last part just shows the superior races that should be aloud to exist.

You say this like its bad being Hitler.

I would actually accept that, shortstacks are pretty sexy.

They are awful. The fluff has to actively tell you that people like them. That is the only incentive for people to like them.

I was referring to the player and not the character, but it would probably help if Kender didn't look ugly as sin.

>you probably had Kender coming out your ass.
I don't know how it was when they came out but I started D&D as a kid while they were still fairly mainstream.

They were still a made up problem and hardly anyone ever played them.

Because Tasselhof and Flint are dead.

Jesus, how many times do they say "but no really, they're not assholes and theives" in that description? I counted at least three

>They were still a made up problem and hardly anyone ever played them.
Or if they played them they weren't massive cocksuckers about it, probably because they read the novels and liked Tas's concept, as in were vaguely aware of kender culture from a couple pages of (incredibly) shitty fluff for an edition that largely wanted nothing to do with DL (hence the third party book), reproduced here: .

I think that's to emphasize the fact that they're not actually dickbags, unlike how (allegedly) certain autists play them. They're trying to tell you "no don't be a shitsack if you play this dude." which nobody does these days and when they were played long ago it was a nonissue, as the greybeards keep trying to tell you.

No race should give free pass to steal and / or lie. No matter how cute you are. Free pass to steal from party members is especially bad.

D&D fundamentally is a game about acquiring newer and better shit. A playable race that straight up doesn't recognise the concept of property breaks that premise. What's more, it straight up offends a lot of fa/tg/uys because the right to loot has been so deeply conditioned.

Kender would probably be ok in a better game. They're better than the standard treatment of halflings.

I've never drank piss. I don't need to drink piss to know it's bad.

An individual kleptomaniac isn't all that interesting. An apparently functioning society of what other races would term kleptomaniacs is a more arresting idea.

>A playable race that straight up doesn't recognise the concept of property breaks that premise.
But they do have a concept of property. If asked they'll quickly return your things under the assumption of it being not-theirs. The concept they lack is of theft.

Even then, not all parties are gear oriented.

>never played the old games
>never read the novels
>never played with a party playing a reasonable kender
>bases entire self-certainty off of one image macro of a two page fluff entry for a third party afterthought splat.

>understands property
>doesn't understand theft

Well, we have to do better than Dragonlance writers and try to reconcile these ideas in a way that makes sense.

My preferred take is that in the kender's mind, everything "belongs" to whoever happens to need it at that moment. They will of course return your stuff instantly because it would be rude to hold onto it when you need it, but don't see anything wrong with pocketing things they find in people's packs if they think they might want it later.

You mean a more fucking stupid idea

In my mind it's a kind of super-ADHD that is also the reason for their lack of fear. Curiosity leads them to shove shit in their pockets as soon as something shinier or bigger is noticed; this leads to the whole "Oh, this thing, I don't remember even picking it up?" sort of attitude.

There's no real contradiction.

They understand borrowing.

And they understand the idea that there's personal property, i.e. they understand the concept of belongings.

They don't understand the obsessive idea that property is sacred rather than just "shit you use"

They already did. The kender are borrowing things and they're forgetful. They don't ask permission to borrow because they don't understand theft but will give things back when asked. It's still annoying as fuck when the wrong person tries to play it.

It's annoying as fuck when anyone plays it. 99% of everyone would not put up with that kind of shit for 5 minutes.

Yes, arresting is certainly something that needs to be done there.

Are you that butthurt by kender that you get offended when your pretend property (if played properly, insignificant property) gets filched by a pretend race?

I'd say arresting them is the right idea. Then apply a generous amount of fire.

If you're roleplaying properly, you should get "buttmad" when some little faggot nicks your shit. I don't care if you were totally gonna give it back, half this shit we need for emergencies in order to not fucking die.

I'm not saying I would get mad at a player for properly roleplaying a kender, I'm saying that any reasonable character would fucking hate kender characters.

I'd add that to them, just because someone else is holding onto your property doesn't make it not yours. Them holding onto your Magical Ring of Magic isn't because they're trying to use it themselves, or they think it's theirs, it's because in their mind them holding onto it and being intrigued by it doesn't break any "personal boundaries."

The issue I have with most people who play them though, are when they expect the rest of the party to understand their character's attitude but refuse to have their character attempt to understand other people may not be okay with them taking their things.

One of my favorite playgroups had a Kender player who actually made it a character arc where her innate "innocence" was broken as she realized that everybody thought of her as a thief because she finally understood the concept that people thought she was trying to steal from them. Was a great character moment and from then on she made her character always unsure about whether or not people thought she was a thief or not, since Kender are huge on first appearances it almost entirely broke the character's self esteem.

Except in a setting where kender have been normalized since forever.

Sure, though, throw a fit about one of your nine flasks of alchemist's fire or that steel piece with the bend in it that I already asked permission multiple times OOC to take.

I don't like dark kender, at that point they are just halflings.
Also, imho, a proper kender should already have that sort of paranoia, remember how many times Tanis and Flint had to hold back Tas from chimping out at someone saying the word "cutpurse"?

I roleplay properly as a relatively poor adventurer who has few precious things in the world. There isn't that much in my character's belongings I'm obsessively possessive about.

As cheap and fetishy as it is, I could get behind a race that was 1/3 kleptomidget and 2/3 boobs.

2e's Afflicted Kender, afaik, were literally just Halfling with PTSD.

It's the poorest who stands the most to lose, and to whom seemingly mundane or even worthless items matter the most.

Unless you're one of those Vow-of-Poverty monks, I suppose.

The poorest pool their resources to achieve more greatness that they couldn't achieve alone.

Literally just don't take my weapons, my lute or my trinket and you won't see me angry.

Besides I'm overencumbered

I don't think that's true at all. It's the rich who are guaranteed to be fiercely protective of their things, even when they're not worth much.

This is actually the original meaning of mary sue before it got used for all sorts of things.

But that description's garbage, even by third party DL standards, given how often folks in DL novels shittalk kenders. Tanis and Flint didn't want Tas within ten feet of them at first, because "ayo dorf man he's gonna steal our shit". Took 'em years to become truly acclimated to map-obsessed autist's presence.