So i just finished reading path of Heaven and i gotta say its got some pretty good parts in it
one thing though is that the book was finished last year (the authors blurb at the end is marked 2015)
it answered one of the underlying questions about the entire series.
SPOILERS FOLLOW
Angel Brooks
>its got some pretty good parts in it
If you think that, I want to know what you think the best book in the HH series is.
Christian Martinez
gib spoils
Alexander Sanders
The Navigators
so throughout lore and canon it states that the navigators are a necessary evil in the imperium and that the emperor having no other means to travel has to suck it up and use them but secretly hates them just like everyone else in the imperium
as we all know by now he gets 70% through conquering the galaxy and then goes back to Terra and begins working on the construction of his "human webway" project then a few years later Magnus fucks it up by accident
turns out that some of the navigator houses had heard rumours about this kind of thing and were actively working to sabatoge the project (plot point in the story)
the reasoning being that if the Emperor no longer needed Navigators he could have just killed them all, which he was planning on doing the first chance he got because they have so much power in the imperium it also goes into detail about the navigators are being used by both sides and are the only ones other then ships that forces wont outright destroy and that gives them a kind of arrogant invulnerabilty. this is touched upon in other books about the creation of the Pariah assassins and the whole navigator house kicking up a massive shit fest and threatening to strike (which would fuck the crusade up)
hence why the emperor went to all the trouble to make it super secret, he was keeping it not from his sons but from the navigators, (hence why he explained to Magnus in Thousand sons) although he never tells horus (but then he probably didn't see the point in burdening horus with something that big
Emperor: Hey Horus i know you got a galactic crusade to run and co ordinate so i am just going to go build a webway portal using Ancient Alien technology so we no longer need navigators. yeah you can't tell them though because if they find out they will launch a civil war and that would be bad, so keep it super secret. also don't judge me for using alien tech...
David James
i said its got some good parts in it, not that the whole thing was good. If i had to make a favourite i would either lean towards A Thousand Sons, Legion or Deliverance Lost
Cameron Perry
Consensus is that it's one of the top 5 HH books ever. Also
>Deliverance Lost
You sir, need to improve your taste. That story was bland as shit.
Noah Allen
Well fuck, that makes a lot of sense given other examples of non-HH fluff.
I mean the Nav-Houses do tend to be a bit ruthless if the actions in the second Shira Calpurnia novel serve as an example
Jordan Sanders
I really couldn't care less about this published fanfiction garbage.
At this point is the Heresy ever going to move on Earth? Are we ever going to get a battle for the Emperors Palace?
I realise that this would be the end of this tripe book series and the end of the cash cow but goddamn how is no one getting tired of
>On a distant world Primarch X has discovered an amazing Mcguffin >This Mcguffin could change the course of the entire heresy >Little does he know a strike force of Y and Primarch Y trailed him the entire way >Will Primarch X be able escape with the Mcguffin or will Primarch Y take it from him
Owen Clark
its set 4 years after Scars
well at this point they are delaying the release of the books to add tie ins from the Forge world books (Krimzon king was supposed to be released 3 years ago but there was a delay with forgeworld because they had to work out sisters of silence and Custiodian armies and then rework magic)
add that to now they are adding "The Beast Arises" series and the new " Primarchs" series
sorry sir but its looks like it is going to be a while
Evan Cox
That actually makes sense and somewhat answers the most glaring flaw in the Emperor's plan, i.e. why not just fucking tell Magnus. I've always wondered why the Navigators don't have massive political capital in the Imperium.
Isaiah Lee
It's a shame most of the authors don't treat the series like Chris Wraight does. His books are solid.
Most of the HH is hot garbage.
Christian Walker
he kind of explains it to Magnus in Thousand Sons, basically saying "Yeah i know the webway exists, yeah i am working on it, no you can't come join me"
Conjecture: he probably didn't want Magnus to come join him on Terra to help out because it would have been Suspicious as fuck if "MOST PSYKER PRIMARCH" suddenly returned home to work on a top secret project that the Navigators weren't involved in
it also adds an extra reason why Emps brought the Imperial Fists back to terra to "Fortify" it, as the books suggest he wasn't far off completing it, and almost as soon as he finished completing it he would have need some extra muscle to help take down the navigators (Custodians are NOT an army) With the Imperial Fists there he would have had a standing army to help fight off the Navigators AND fortify the Webway
Jose Gomez
You will not see the siege of Terra.
There will be another 10 years at least of
>Hey, what are the doing during the heresy? >Hey, what is doing this week during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Arbites doing during the heresy >Hey, what are the gangers doing during the heresy >Hey, what are the old Thunder Warriors doing during the heresy >Hey, what are the Orks doing during the heresy >Hey, what are the Craftworld Eldar doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Dark Eldar doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Eldar Corsairs doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Aspect Warrior Eldar doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Eldar Phoenix Kings doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the harlequins doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Navigators doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Mechanicum doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Dark Mechanicum doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the men of iron doing during the heresy? >Hey, what the the non descript alien race doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the Tyranids vanguard fleet doing during the heresy? >Hey, what are the sleeping Necrons doing during the heresy?
and then...
>Hey, what are the doing during the Great Crusade? >Hey, what is doing during the Great Crusade? >Hey, what are the Arbites doing during the Great Crusade?
You will never, ever see the siege on Terra.
Benjamin Taylor
>why not just fucking tell Magnus
Why not call his 18 Demi God sons into a room and have a chat about it.
>I'm working on a transport network that will allow us to traverse the galaxy in seconds >It's Xeno tech but we'll work to make it safe >It'll mean we don't need to rely on dangerous warp travel anymore
but noooooooo silence for reasons
Lucas Hernandez
>Hey, what are the Dark Mechanicum doing during the heresy?
Hey man, I could use some of this.
Brody Price
>silence for reasons navigators are everywhere, and every one of them is psychically capable
The more you talk about something, the easier it is for them to figure it out. And those mutant jews would immediately put a hold on your entire empire's interstellar capabilities if they find out.
This retcon actually makes some sense.
Grayson Allen
lets not forget that Mortarion blurts out the council of nikea is going to happen during the ullanor parade just to piss of magnus
Navigator: Sorry my lord Mortarion the warp storm is to powerful to get through safely Mortarion:It will be a fine day when mankind is finally free of your witchbreed filth Navigator and your weakness doesn't impede the pure strength of my legion Navigator: What? Mortarion: I know something you don't know ner ner ner and it's super sinister ner ner ner
Robert Gray
What's the hurry? They are building the setting and giving us more content, Wanting it to end is like wanting 40K end books written down too soon.
Unless you going to die in the coming 8 years, then no worries.
Elijah James
Admittedly this isn't the whole book and a whole lot of it was just setting the stage for the final push to terra
>The Khan is now on terra >Mortarion is going to chase after Typhon in a jealous gf inspired rage then meet up with horu for the final push >Russ is going to leave Terra to fight Horus >Fulgrim has gone missing with 2/3rds of his legion the other 1/3 is with Eidolon getting shit done >Alpha legion is missing and presumed in a shadow war against KGB Alpha Legion agents >FORGE WORLD TIE INS >Horus is about to gather the primarchs for his final push >talks about how Rogal Dorn has been fortifying hundreds of planets in the Solar sector as well >Malcadors agents recruit Arvida as he falls onto a coma >Mortarion is loaded with nurgle warpcraft but refuses to use it and has begun doing what Magnus did (Stockpiling arcane law and stuff) (also actively searched out a weird mind fucker baby squid so he could rip secrets from people without using the warp)
Adrian Baker
mortarion would have been my favorite primarch if he stayed loyal
Dude's attitude was on point.
Colton Flores
Does Morty chat with Nurgle at any point?
Alexander Ward
Moetarion would have been my favourite primarch if he had some fucking spotlight at some point.
Garro has like 10 times as much spotlight as him.
Aaron Hill
How many Perpetuals were in it? Did someone mention that they were Alpharius? Did they go to Ultramar for no reason?
James Howard
>>FORGE WORLD TIE INS
Every single book has a forced FW model/unit reference these days. It's like infomercials, it;s jarring as shit.
Nathan Myers
>How many Perpetuals were in it?
Alivia reaches Terra and she kicks Malcador in the balls.
She psychically connects with the Emperor to apologize about what happened on Molech. He understands and forgives her. He releases her from her debt to him
While Malcador is rolling on the floor in pain, she places her story book near him and tells him she no longer needs it.
She takes hold of her daughter's hand and they both walk away. The Emperor whispers farewell to Alivia. She smiles and disappears out of the story, hopefully to a well earned happy ending
Oliver Taylor
>this is touched upon in other books about the creation of the Pariah assassins and the whole navigator house kicking up a massive shit fest and threatening to strike (which would fuck the crusade up)
Source?
Nathan Gray
>She smiles and disappears out of the story, hopefully to a well earned happy ending
Lol no, the perpetuals get hunted down and everyone on Terra is fucked (literally in some cases).
Luke Ortiz
There really are perpetuals? Confirmed shit.
Noah Howard
Nobody knows who the Perpetuals are outside of the Emperor, Malcador, Vulkan, the Cabal, and Perpetuals themselves.
Colton Fisher
>but goddamn how is no one getting tired of Because its fucking table top lore your autist. The whole setting is literally "fan fiction".
And people who can deal with it, or like it have no problem with that.
Robert Richardson
You replied to the wrong post.
Liam Wilson
Considering the material that came out to date? Good. I want as few significant events as possible.
Sebastian Peterson
I'm glad that Revuel Arvida is still alive. He better create the Blood Ravens. I would like it if he managed to get all the loyalist Thousand Sons that are out there and make a chapter out of it at the end of the Horus Heresy.
He is in the care of Malcador now so we will see what his fate is.
Owen Ortiz
No, ADB will kill him.
Jose Jackson
I will literally rage if that happens. They have built the character up to create the Blood Ravens, if he does die, at least yet him create the Blood Ravens first before it like Alexis Polux with the Crimson Fists.
Levi Kelly
Where does it fit in here?
Landon Cruz
Based Wraight rectifying one of the most problematic (autistic) aspect of the heresy.
Adam Flores
At Horus Heresy Weekender 2016 they pretty much said that Terra is coming pretty soon, Maybe they're lying though.
Jacob Johnson
This is a decent attempt to explain the Emperor's secrecy, but really he should have still told the Primarchs. They can keep a secret.
unless you're alpharius
Gavin Bell
But user I do wanna know what everyone you listed is doing in the Heresy.
John Phillips
FW books are the best source of this so far outside of Mechanicum which simply shows the birth of the DM.
Jonathan Sanders
>Legion
As a monstrous Alphafag: AHAHAHAHA no. Not even the best Alpha content in the HH series, let alone one of the best books. Dabnett needs to stick to writing Vietnam In SPESS, because he doesn't get Space Marines. At all. Period. In anything he writes.
Connor Taylor
>Alpha legion is missing and presumed in a shadow war against KGB Alpha Legion agents
I laughed irl
Chase Baker
>mfw Dark Angels player
These books do nothing good for us. They're like a damn plague that never goes away.
Carson Martin
Savage weapons was pretty good.
They should have just stopped there for both DA and NL.
Justin Carter
I am THE Russfag on Veeky Forums but Morty is a close second of mine. So pissed the Death Guard had to go full retard traitor
Henry Rogers
I like the perpetual better than the primarchs.
Julian Cox
Them Navigators.
Wyatt Harris
>They can keep a secret. Yeah, no. The Emperor was totally in the right on this one.
Jacob Jackson
Deathfire shouldn't be that low.
Hunter Howard
This seen reasonable to keep secret as to not bother the warmaster with internal matters. Still if anyone one of them had insisted on asking he could probably had told them.
Jaxson Parker
It really should. That said, I'd move Pharos and The Purge each up a tier.
Jack Taylor
DAMN, finally GW moves back to the Dune references for once in a move that makes sense.
I agree with the emperor's silence on the issue now as navigators are the fucking engine that drove the crusade and the heresy. Horus had no goddamn right to know that shit, especially with the navigators fucking everywhere when it comes to a Space Marine Legion and the overall crusade.
Overall well done, for once I think BL didnt fuck it up. However the bigger question is, if navigators were so important to the both sides of the Horus Heresy, why didnt the navigators that were under traitor control just refuse, sure some would probably be forced to but that seems to be a way to flat out end Horus's fleets right at the beginning of this whole shindig. Havent read the book yet but I feel like they need to explain why the navigator houses wouldn't just side with the emperor, since he is more safe through stability, vs trying to play both sides off each other? If they as an organization just told Horus to fuck off then his Heresy was fucked completely...
Eli Richardson
Wow, that's actually a great explanation. I feel that alot of things will be explained by the end of this series.
The Emperor is not as stupid as we think he is.
Samuel Ross
No he still is, its just the rest of the setting is becoming more competent.
Dylan Bailey
>why not tell Horus to fuck off Yes, good question, user. Why would the navigators engage in such duplicity? What was the split that divided the nav houses, if any??
With the dark mechanicum, it seems, the split occurred due to some techpriests wanting to experiment with the warp/demons. Why the split amongst the navigators?
Robert Jackson
Do you really think using giant building mounted flamethrowers on the fucking Life Eater is justified?
Jackson Bailey
Part of it may just be the traitors keeping the navigators in the dark about what's going on. For the most part, the navigators never leave their ship-bound homes, nor do they really interact with others outside of "Where are we going next?" and "How long do you think it will take?" I imagine there's even less communication back to their navigator houses to organize some sort of counter-rebellion against the traitors.
On the other hand, it might be similar to the AdMech, with different navigator houses split up based on their own beliefs and agendas and the nobles having their own secret civil war with one another.
Jaxon Hall
Good thoughts! All plausible, and the truth is likely all of them, it seems. Horus prolly held many hostage, forcing their Houses to serve him to keep their scions alive. More than likely a lot of intrigue among the nav houses, vying for power and good shipping contracts.
Any other idears or thoughts? (This is an interesting development from the gw/fw teams, and it sheds new light on things.)
Angel Diaz
I imagine this applied to astropaths and others in the adeptus astra telepathica as well. Communication would be far more streamlined.
Ayden King
Well, HH has fixed the hole it dug itself into somewhat. Good job. It also does make a lot of sense.
Lucas Price
>sixty servants and twenty concubines
Asher Hernandez
He's not that bad. It's difficult being a living god and trying to finish a plan that's being going on for a literal 26000 thousand years.
Bentley Bailey
You mean the rest of the setting is backing itself into all sorts of corners to add interesting twists to simple, half-mythologized events and make sure just about everybody seems legitimate in their views.
Colton Rivera
I could see the Siege of Terra still being a half-dozen books, minimum. If nothing else, to give all the legions spotlights at one point or another.
Jordan Reed
>mfw according to the author on Warseer they were originally planning to just have "Nocturne's volcanic atmosphere is unexpectedly deadly to life eater" >BL changed it to a flamethrower at the last minute for rule of cool
Christian Long
How do we stop the Eternal Navigator?
Michael Miller
Link?
Ethan Price
Don't forget the part where Magnus was going to be permanently wired into the soul torture machine.
Jeremiah Reed
You know what? Needing to keep it secret from the Navigators is actually an excellent reason for Big E to have been so super-secrety about it all, and honestly that should have been the original justification for it being so secret.
BUT it still doesn't make sense that he didn't tell more of his sons.
Aiden Powell
Horus Rising and Flight of the Eisenstein should swap places with False Gods and Galaxy in Flames respectively.
Otherwise, fine with the rest.
Chase Smith
Well, who do you tell? Who most deserves to know? He can't just tell all of them - most of them aren't in one place for most of the Crusade, and messages could get overheard.
Wyatt Bennett
Poor novels themselves aside, I really dislike that they canonized Lion'el Johnson's firm loyalty and why he was late to the Siege of Terra. The ambiguity about his character and motivations made him so much more interesting.
Same with the fact that in some recent BL material, apparently they canonized that Cypher is a council of guys instead of one individual, which ticks me off for the same reason.
Connor Thomas
>Well, who do you tell? Who most deserves to know Horus and Magnus. Magnus actually NEEDS to know if we presume that he was slated to be involved in the golden throne later. And if Horus really is the final authority of the Emperor, he needs to know what Big E is doing so that he can help keep it secret from the Imperium
Imagine if some of the events of The Beast series happened just before the Heresy. Some orks have a magic space-ship that teleports through dimensions, and literally no one in the Imperium has any idea how to stop it. While trying to figure out what to do, some of the warp-sensitive people notice the weird signals they're getting from around Holy Terra. GASP AND SHOCK, THE BEAST IS ABOUT TO TUNNEL INTO TERRA, TELL EVERYONE AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN STOP HIM. No that's actually the webway project, and by trying to prevent catastrophe Horus could very easily have made more people aware of the Emperor's secret project
Christian Foster
And yet for every one of you that wants to maintain ambiguity, there's half a dozen shouting for confirmation one way or the other. You're only going to buy one copy, they'll buy six.
Isaiah James
The Primarchs still deserved to know, they were the Emperor's sons and the 20 highest ranking people in the Imperium. Or at least many (Horus, Sangy, Guilliman, Russ, Dorn, Ferrus, Fulgrim, Perturabo, Mortarion, Magnus, Vulkan, Corax) deserved to know and could keep a secret
Though I guess the argument could be made that after the 2 lost primarchs went rogue or whatever happened to them, he didn't trust the remaining ones enough to tell them. But that begs the question as to why the Big E still trusted Horus enough to be warmaster but not know about the webway project.
Jose Perez
>*Lion El'Johnson Damn it
Yeah, I know, and it annoys me. I mean, everyone's entitled to their wrong opinion, but some people don't seem to understand that ambiguity is a good thing.
I'm not going to bother ranting about it, since this isn't the thread for it, but I'm pretty butt-flustered by the fans that want absolutely everything spelled out for them.
Ian Martin
At which point the Navigators all rebel and galactic transit grinds to a halt. Great plan.
Horus was surrounded by delegates and representatives nonstop. He was the Warmaster. Word absolutely would've gotten out if Horus was aware, nor would he want to keep it from his brothers.
Blake Harris
New mysteries are always added. Look at all the stuff in Conquest and Retribution that's ambiguous. All of the various Shattered Legion and Blackshield elements. There's nothing wrong with finally revealing a 15+ year old secret. Especially when the truth was lost to anyone of importance.
Oliver Morgan
>At which point the Navigators all rebel and galactic transit grinds to a halt. Great plan That's the fucking point, man, read the post. If Horus doesn't know about the project, he's still likely to stumble onto it simply because he's running the Imperium in Big E's stead. He needs to be told about it to prevent any others from knowing. >Horus was surrounded by delegates and representatives nonstop. He was the Warmaster. Word absolutely would've gotten out if Horus was aware Horus was privy to a lot of secret shit that never got out, a Warmaster has to know how to keep secrets.
Zachary Perez
>But that begs the question as to why the Big E still trusted Horus enough to be warmaster but not know about the webway projec Exactly. Horus was trusted to basically run the entire Imperium bar Terra, with all the terrible secrets that entailed, but he wasn't trusted enough to know about the webway project?
Hudson Gutierrez
Your post made no fucking sense so I took a stab in the dark.
Nolan Myers
> Fulgrim... > only acceptable
Oliver Walker
Thanks for the suggestions, user. I'll take a look at those.
Kayden Ward
This is an English language imageboard. Learn the language and come back to us.
Nathan Cook
>84 replies >people still caring about BL's Horrid Hereshit Shiggity doo da Diggity day, my oh my what a cancerous day
Aaron Perry
What about FW's Horrid Hereshit?
Xavier Davis
So it would seem that, perhaps, the Emprah was planning on sidelining the various psyker organizations via the webway project. He probably had a plan to develop humanity's psychic potential using these psyker groups (set up schools across the Imperium, say).
He probably also had a plan to exterminate the dangerous psykers, including those with psychic mutations no longer necessary and highly dangerous (i.e. Navigators).
This might explain the Council of Nikea (no psychic meddling - until Emprah decides otherwise) as well. He already has a plan and doesn't want anyone mucking it up. And it explains the secrecy, because the Emprah is basically planning to fuck over a huge portion of his power base.
Horus would use this secrecy to fuel paranoia in the various psyker organizations against the Emprah. And Horus would have the truth on his side. Win for Chaos. But if Emprah had been open about it? Civil war - win for Chaos.
Perfect set-up from the point of view of Chaos. The only way the Emprah can break humanity's dependence upon Chaos was the webway - and the ONLY way, apparently, the webway could be built was if the primarchs held true to the Emprah's orders, trusted Him.
Thus the Emprah's mistake was to trust his sons. He believed them to be manifestations of His will and did not recognize that they were actually human individuals that could defy His wishes.
Horus, knowing what the Emprah was capable of, rightly feared Him and his trust in the Emprah could be broken.
Woops! I rambled - any other speculations?
Zachary Sanders
My understanding was that Navigators cannot read minds. And they aren't even particularly prescient in the conventional sense, unlike their Dune equivalent/source. Their only psychic powers are the eye, which literally just lets them pilot ships in the warp, follow ships through the warp, and shoot warp shit at people who piss them off. They *do* probably have an elaborate spy network on par with every other powerful group in the Imperium though, so the big E would have to carefully consider how much each Primarch could be trusted and, more importantly, how much they trusted their own men. I can totally see some of the Primarchs having objections to not letting their little buddies in on the big secret, which then opens them up to being exposed to the Navigators.
Agreed. Frankly, I think they've played up the loyalist/rebel divide a bit too heavily. I really liked the fan theory that the Ultramarines might have just been waiting out the fight to see which side was winning. I'd like to see at least some of the Primarchs/Legions as given to ambiguity and politicking, as opposed to all being PURE WARRIOR HEROES, or FALLEN WARRIOR VILLAINS. The Dark Angels having been possibly split during the war is a cool part of their fluff, I'm a bit disappointed that the Lion was totally on team Big E.
Benjamin Rogers
Empy was never stupid. His INT score is through the roof. His WIS one on the other hand...
Carson Allen
What, in what book did that happend?
Agreed, give Morty more spotlight.
Nicholas Fisher
What an amount of memes Ten bucks you are a re/tv/ard.
Nicholas Edwards
I never get this, everyone fucking knows how it ends, why the fucking rush to it?
I'm more interest in hearing >Hey, what are the Dark Mechanicum doing during the heresy?
than reading about the fucking horus vs emperor fight in it's hundredth version
Luke Miller
What was wrong with "Angel Exterminatus"? I thought it was fun, although the 'shattered legions' are kind of boring.