The Beast Arises

Has anyone else read this series?

Given Veeky Forumss infamous hatred for all things Black Library, I think I can guess what people think.

Normally, I would disagree, but this series. Just wow. The number of off-the-wall "they did WHAT?!" moments I am having reading this is just crazy.

It's at a point were I just have to treat it like some kind of 40k based "alternate history fiction", because the stuff can't be canon, it's just too out there.

I don't think it's written badly, just the kind of things they are doing are crazy.

TL;DR: The Beast Arises fills me with Nerd Rage.

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>The number of off-the-wall "they did WHAT?!" moments I am having reading this is just crazy.
>It's at a point were I just have to treat it like some kind of 40k based "alternate history fiction", because the stuff can't be canon, it's just too out there.

Welcome to Black Library. And you wonder why Veeky Forums and everyone that isn't a BL cock guzzling faggot hates it.

Extra lore is pointless if it simply invalidates and contradicts all existing lore, which 99% of BL does.

Well I thought we all love Cain.

>Welcome to Black Library. And you wonder why Veeky Forums and everyone that isn't a BL cock guzzling faggot hates it.

Except this is beyond the pale. As mentioned, normally I would say you are talking out your arse, but with this series, I totally agree.

>we all love Cain.
We should. Anyone who doesn't is wrong :P

The trend started with the Horus Heresy series. Apparently going back to M31 and starting from there means "do whatever the fuck you want" to BL.

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One fa/tg/uy's opinion. TL;DR: It's mediocre, but enjoyable, like microwave popcorn.

>microwave popcorn
>mediocre

It's at least 85% as enjoyable as actual good popcorn. 90% if you actually go out of your way to replicate shit like pouring your own butter on it.

I would rate microwave popcorn as "pretty good".

Veeky Forums and the internet at large is generally full of shitters who claim that their minority opinion represents the vast majority, and will argue to no end to prove themselves right, especially when their anonimity is not at stake.

that being said, Black Library isn't awful, it has a good collection among the few bad ones that stick out. also, i fucking love "Dead Men Walking" and anybody who says it's bad can stop talking, because it's clear they have nothing intelligent to discuss.

But you can have really good homemade popcorn for about $350 with a small home popper, some coconut oil, popcorn butter or melted butter, and fine-grained salt. As opposed to buying microwave popcorn that generally has a texture a little more like styrofoam, more unpopped kernels, and gives you popcorn lung.

Stop being a whiny little bitch and eat your buttered styrofoam.

>$350 bucks
>for homemade popcorn
why
unless that's $350 for 100 batches, why

>not eating gourmet popcorn for every meal

Get a load of this hippie pleb.

I just do that in a small saucepan, works great.

>Pan
>Oil (coconut oil or any oil which can withstand high tempratures)
>Corn kettles
>Salt

$250 for a large popcorn machine from Costco.
$20 for a 5 lb container of popcorn kernels, good for 20 showings.
$30 for a good-sized bottle of coconut oil for popping; "popcorn oil" is usually just flavorless canola oil or really shitty "butter-flavored" oil.
$30 for a gallon of butter-flavored popcorn topping.
$8 for fine-grained salt that sticks well to the topping.

You are completely right, but objectively BL can't write consistently for shit. Which is what they are criticizing.

>write consistently for shit.

You mean you either rage at perceived changes to lore like the guy in OP. Most of the time it's because the "critic" most of the time doesn't know the fluff. Objectively most Veeky Forums struggles with their knowledge of the lore.

I dunno he hasn't said what's bad yet so we can't make the call if he is full of shit.

Stop speaking out of your ass faggot.

Go to reddit if you want "intelligent discussion" and the circle jerk you seem to crave.

>rulebook says X
>codex says X
>established knowledge amongst gamers for decades is X
>BL writes new novel
>suddenly it actually was Y!
>"Xfags are all just spergs who didn't know shit!"

Can't hear you over all those BL cocks in your mouth.

Since when has BL "lore" trumped official lore?

Kind of hilarious that BL defenders don't even know the answer to this question when one of you is claiming it's BL haters who don't know their lore.

>one of you is claiming it's BL haters who don't know their lore
Where is this claimed?
All I see are people calling out the BL shills for attempting to push BL lore over established lore from the main governing body of the hobby.

>Moron : Orks have Diplomats!
>Us : The Imperials thought he was diplomat. He was just there to deliver the Ork message of "submit or die". You know, the message that Orks often deliver to the races they fight? Ork has enslaved entire planets and races before in the fluff.

>Moron : Orks were outnumbered by humans!
>Us : The Ork forces in the moon which are probably in tens of millions would not hope to outnumber humans in the mos crowded and most populated system in the Imperium.

So on and so forth. Rarely it's about established things.

Also considering that Rulebooks and codexes also change lore (See Necrons, Admech, and Eldar) as much as BL, you have no ground to stand on.

Got proof that BL is not "official" lore. At this point my troll senses are tingling.

I have an answer anyway.

Lets see what Laurie says

Perpetuals.

Sensei and Illuminati

New stuff are added or changed within the rulebooks and novels. If the Perpetuals appeared in a rulebook you wouldn't have bitched.

The Perpetuals are awesome anyway.

Basically it's all canon unless it's overwritten or GW says it's not.

Forgot my picture.

Damn you captcha.

You know why i dislike black library?
Inconsistencies
Lack of tactics/weapon related knowledge
Inconsistencies.

See that marine? He is unkillable 20ft tall! Now he is 7ft, now he is 20 again!
Watch him run, jump, weigh a half a tonne. But now he doesn't!
See those mere mortals? He is going to kill 500 of them, but seemingly struggle when he faces them 3 or 4 at a time, watch those lasers! You know those lasers with recoil. That pierce plot ceramite!

Where is it stated the BL lore takes precedent over the official GW lore?
That entire comment seems to refer entirely on BL and nothing else.

>If the Perpetuals appeared in a rulebook you wouldn't have bitched.

No shit, that's kind of the point. If the rulebook had talked about it, it'd be X, not BL's Y.

>Where is it stated the BL lore takes precedent over the official GW lore?

The whole part about him saying that newer stuff overwrites the old. Whether they be GW, FW, or BL, GW reviews the lore sources, and if there is some problems in the continuity, they choose the most logical, consistent, and fitting with their vision path of progression.

Then there is the Olly part below.

No, there is shit. Your bullshit. If the Perpetuals were suddenly a new addition to the lore introduced in a rulebook, then you wouldn't bitched as much. You see those rulebooks as some sort of bibles neglecting how often their lore gets rewritten to shoehorn new stuff to the setting.

Your entire argument is based on supposition. And why the fuck wouldn't a primary source text take precedence over supplemental texts? Supplemental texts often sourced to outside writers and with content that contradicts source material?

What takes precedence then, the 30k lore or the 40k lore?
As he said, "if an irreconcilable difference occurs later on, GW will officially overwrite whatever it needs to, in order to create the best and most logical progression which causes the fewest problems afterwards and matches the most different sources now."

How is adding something that contradicts the established lore in 40k creating cohesive, logical progression when depending on what is added/contradicted it doesn't exist in the first place?

There also the fact that GW after tightening their grip over BL has used them to push retcons and changes on the setting (picture related). GW's management for example told Guy Haley to reduce the numbers of the Black Templar.

I mean, it's not like new additions to the codices have ever caused immense amounts of bitching, right?
>muh Ward

The difference between you and everyone else is that you're being a faggot for no good reason and your excuse is "but if this and that happened, you would be just as much of a faggot". Except those things haven't happened, so...

>What takes precedence then, the 30k lore or the 40k lore?

Newer stuff overwrites old.

Also you missed the "Fitting with their vision" aka IP market appeal. If GW wants to push something new, then to hell with everything else. Example is the Newcrons whose fluff is a inconsistent blight on the setting.

GW's vision is AoS, and they also let go almost every single person who originally envisioned 40k.

>"but if this and that happened, you would be just as much of a faggot"

I have seen it with my eyes.

Did you bitch when GW/FW rewrote all the Post-HH Admech warmachines to appear in the HH? No?

Hypocrite!

Okay so 30k trumps 40k lore even though 40k is when the setting takes place?

>You mean you either rage at perceived changes to lore like the guy in OP.

It's not even that The Beast Arises makes some pretty big changes to the lore, it's that they just throw out entirely brand new major events which should have some impact on the 41st millenium, or at least be known about, because they are so damn major.

Like the Eldar using the webway and fighting the custodes IN THE THRONE ROOM

Or the Orks having diplomats, having ludicrously advanced technology, laying seige to Terra, landing said diplomats on Terra and verbally bitchslapping the HIgh Lords in person.

The plolateriat crusade.

The death of almost the entire Imperial Fists chapter (bar 1).

These things should be known if they happened. That's what I mean by "it feels like alternate history".

I know the writers will just write it off as "lol the Imperium did a purge of their records". But it should show up. Like, the Inquisition, or the Mechanicus should remember some of this stuff, it's important stuff.

What's wrong with the lorebooks (BL) overwriting the crunchbooks (rulebooks/codexes)?

Both have shit fluff and good fluff.

To the extent that they contradict, sure.

All this shit sounds like they're going to end 40k and then nuke it, like they did to Fantasy

>Like the Eldar using the webway and fighting the custodes IN THE THRONE ROOM

The Rulebooks mentions that Terra nearly have fallen to aliens hands multiple times. The Beasts and Eldar assaults on Terra are not the only ones or the last.

>Or the Orks having diplomats

Again, the Imperials thought he was a diplomat. He was just there to deliver a simple message that the Orks delivered to countless races. The High Lords were the guys who bitchslapped themselves for the most part.

>having ludicrously advanced technology, laying seige to Terra

Orks always had some form of impressive tech.

And like I said, the Beast Orks weren't the only aliens that besieged Terra.

>The plolateriat crusade.

Not that important.

>The death of almost the entire Imperial Fists chapter (bar 1).

Explained the novels. The High Lords ordered everyone to cover it up and order the rest of the Imperial successors to dress up as Imperial Fists during the parade on Terra.

>We're just a model company selling models

So lets change some lore that makes people want to collect our models.

Yes. And that's what management told them would get more little kids involved. Every chapter in codex: space marines should be codex compliant. Otherwise the kids will just get confused.

And yet the space wolves are one of the most popular chapters.

Nurgle confirms the worst.

They're also not in codex: space marines.

you do realize all this takes place in M32 right?

...

They're going to retroactively nuke the setting in the past and change the time line, just like the new Star Trek flicks?

>Lack of tactics/weapon related knowledge

Then you hate 40k at its core. Nothing about strapping a jetpack to an 8 foot tall juggernaut armed with a chainsaw-sword in armour so heavy he couldn't walk up the stairs without bringing the building down makes tactical sense to anyone over the age of 12. 40k is a walking metal album cover not ARMA.

The first 2-3 Cain books were good, but after that he just keeps repeating the same jokes and the same situations with nothing new.

Not really, since each and every time we get a new main rulebook, 30k is contradicted yet more.

>Then you hate 40k at its core
No son, you can be tactically even with magic and fantastical weapons. You can be knowledgeable even if that knowledge is fictitious. Lasguns and bolters don't actually exist, but we have years of lore telling us how they work anyway. When a writer decides to describe a bolter like an m-16 anyway, he's giving us one more reason to never read BL.

No I didn't, because I haven't read a BL novel in years because I can't stand them anymore and I hate GW.

>you do realize
Opinion discarded

We have lore telling us lots of contradictory things. In Space Hulk bolters jam like they're made by Mattel and in table top they're barely better than a lasgun. There's no tactical reason for marines or melee or banshees or space cathedrals outside of 'it's cool tho'. Trying to pretend 40k has EVER been in any way consistent or well thought out when it's literally cobbled together from other sci-fi IPs is just pretentious horse shit.

I'd say up to book six is fine, with the last book having what feels like the intended ending. Seven through nine, however, definitely had issues with repeating narrative and what seemed like a downplay of humor. You could tell Sandy Mitchell was writing them more because he had to; the last three definitely felt less fun.

I don't rabidly hate Black Library like Veeky Forums seems to. It's 40k, these books aren't intended to be mind-blowing explorations of philosophical discussion. It's not the point. But they are fun, which is enough for me sometimes.

But I do dislike BL trying to push in "OMG NO WAI!" moments into their books, mainly the Horus Heresy and The Beast. Those moments themselves aren't bad, it's good to have twists, but the problem seems to be that the authors are under the impression that it's all any of the readers want, and so they go full comic book levels of "This is for real, yo!" like the Imperial Fists being wiped out to the last man in the FIRST BOOK, or the Emperor making a deal with Chaos to create the Primarchs.

Like, I don't mind that the Imperial Fists are on the brink of extiction. It's fine and arguably serves a purpose in the narrative, and helps show the power of the Beast's Waaaagh! But doing it in the first book is just stupid and makes the Imperial Fists look more incompetent than anything. I feel like a better way to have done that was for their numbers to deplete over the course of the series, at least making them last until book three or four. But hey, I'm not a Black Library author, so I don't have control over these things.

I still do enjoy some current Black Library work, mainly the 40k-era novels (although very few of them seem to have subject matter I care about lately), but I really don't have a drive to read much of The Beast Arises.

nigga just make that shit on the stove

I don't mind Perpetuals. I do mind that important characters are turned into Perpetuals, instead of just being awesome normal guys, like Ollanius Pius.

If we ever get an Age of Apostasy series, I'm betting my Whose Line points that Sebastian Thor will be turned into a Perpetual too.

Always favoured sesame oil myself, sesame popcorn is great.

Friendly reminder that everything GW/BL is nothing but table top strategy game lore, not LOTR/TBE/WOT/GOT crafted fiction.

Doesn't matter if its released under GW or BL, its simple lore made to hype people into buying. Everything is canon and contradictions in BL books matter as much as they did in new Codex releases, meaning, they don't.

If you still get mad over this, you're neckbeard cuck, who's too deep into the consumer trap that is GW/BL's lore.

Is it wrong that I actually really liked Sulla?

I bitched about FW adding AdMech into 30k and GW adding plastic AdMech into 40k, moron. How the fuck do you even know who's who on an anonymous board.

You're already a hypocrite and a retard for liking BL and thinking it fits GW's canon, so your mere ACCUSATION of hypocrisy doesn't mean shit, especially when you're wrong in the first place, about EVERYTHING.

>tfw I'm enjoying the Beast Arises series

Yeah, it has a lot of "wtf big" moments that is taken advantage of the fact that it isn't M41. As for why this isn't "talked about", it was 8,000 years before M41 (think about how long of a period that is) and had lots of Heresy in it.

>tfw I unironically enjoy most BL books
>tfw I love the 40k setting
>tfw I couldn't care less about the tabletop game

feels good man