Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know

40k is a lot like Metal Gear Solid in one way: It can be taken seriously at certain times, and it can even provoke thought at rare times, but it also isn't afraid to goof around and not take itself seriously.

I would guess that most 40k enthusiasts are the type of people who would enjoy MGS (and vice versa), if they were only given a chance to indulge themselves in both franchises.

>that ability has managed to benefit them roughly 0 times when it actually mattered

I think you're missing the point somewhat. The reason the Eldar exist at all is because they've been able to avoid the worst outcomes with prescience; It's just that the 40k setting is such a joke of a crapsack universe that even after all the shit the Eldar have dealt with, this is still the best of all possible worlds for the Eldar.

Yeah,they definitely changed direction around 3rd 4th edition
Would you please expand on that? I don't get it

People who take GRIMDARKNESS 100% straight don't like Orks.

>40k lore is the sort of thing that sounds cool when it is just 2 sentences in a blurb, but gets infinitely stupid upon any expanded telling.
/thread

I love both, so... yeah.

Lionel Johnson was a gay poet, whose most famous poem is "The Dark Angel".

>40k lore is the sort of thing that sounds cool when it is just 2 sentences in a blurb, but gets infinitely stupid upon any expanded telling.

Exactly. 40k was at it's best when it was just a rough background for your armies to kill each other in.

The more stuff they publish the more shit it gets.

DARK Angel, with thine aching lust
To rid the world of penitence:
Malicious Angel, who still dost
My soul such subtile violence!
Because of thee, no thought, no thing,
Abides for me undesecrate:
Dark Angel, ever on the wing,
Who never reachest me too late!
When music sounds, then changest thou
Its silvery to a sultry fire:
Nor will thine envious heart allow
Delight untortured by desire.
Through thee, the gracious Muses turn,
To Furies, O mine Enemy!
And all the things of beauty burn
With flames of evil ecstasy.
Because of thee, the land of dreams
Becomes a gathering place of fears:
Until tormented slumber seems
One vehemence of useless tears.
When sunlight glows upon the flowers,
Or ripples down the dancing sea:
Thou, with thy troop of passionate powers,
Beleaguerest, bewilderest, me.
Within the breath of autumn woods,
Within the winter silences:
Thy venomous spirit stirs and broods,
O Master of impieties!
The ardour of red flame is thine,
And thine the steely soul of ice:
Thou poisonest the fair design
Of nature, with unfair device.
Apples of ashes, golden bright;
Waters of bitterness, how sweet!
O banquet of a foul delight,
Prepared by thee, dark Paraclete!
Thou art the whisper in the gloom,
The hinting tone, the haunting laugh:
Thou art the adorner of my tomb,
The minstrel of mine epitaph.
I fight thee, in the Holy Name!
Yet, what thou dost, is what God saith:
Tempter! should I escape thy flame,
Thou wilt have helped my soul from Death:
The second Death, that never dies,
That cannot die, when time is dead:
Live Death, wherein the lost soul cries,
Eternally uncomforted.
Dark Angel, with thine aching lust!
Of two defeats, of two despairs:
Less dread, a change to drifting dust,
Than thine eternity of cares.
Do what thou wilt, thou shalt not so,
Dark Angel! triumph over me:
Lonely, unto the Lone I go;
Divine, to the Divinity.
-Lionel Johnson

Yes. The problem isn't the setting, the problem is the fans of the setting.

>Ostensibly that part of their chapter rebelled during the heresy
>Implying

So, Eldar can make void shields, right? Their Exarchs use them. So why not put both those AND holofields on their spaceships? Wouldn't that make more sense than "only a 33% chance they'll find us, but the moment they do we get shredded"?

Time to bully proud guys

You found the problem with 40k.

Such a weird tie-in

Lionel Johnson converts to Catholicism and spends the rest of his life tormented about his homosexual desires.

The Dark Angels convert back to being on the Emperor's side, and spend their existence tormented about their Heretical temptation.

That would probably be really offensive to homosexuals were it not so esoterically hidden. Someone at GW in the 90s must've really hated gays.

>Someone at GW in the 90s must've really hated gays.

Or, you know, they just thought it was an amusing allusion to something they picked up in college.

This is true. I enjoy 40k for its larger than life characters and I love how bombastic and exaggerated it is! But I can also have moments that really hit home, such as the Eisenhorn or the Horus Heresy series. It's both stupid and ridiculous and greatly engaging.
MGS is the same, with its complex conspiracies and luicrious characters (Ocelot is like, what's, a quadruple agent?) but it can really invoke emotion when it tries. MGSV is a prime example, having a story this you fighting a giant robot and a spooky skeleton man and his skull squad, but also reflections on the nature of war, loyalty and betrayal.

You can take both seriously or comically, depending on which bits you want to concentrate on and I really do appreciate that.

>Or, you know, they just thought it was an amusing allusion to something they picked up in college.

This. It's the same reason there's a rogue primarch named Konrad Curze.

And what allusion is hidden in here?

Knowing nothing about 40k or the character, off the top of my head I would say it was a reference to Joseph Conrad who wrote a book called Heart of Darkness featuring a character called Kurtz.

You really don't get how most of 40k was built, do you?
>Hey guys
>Guys
>Wouldn't it be funny...
>Wouldn't it be funny if...
>Wouldn't it be funny if the biggest, baddest Warboss in the Galaxy were Margaret Thatcher?

And/or went to Oxford, and wanted to show off their literary depth.

A lot of the cringiest stuff stems from 40k just not being relevant anymore. When it started in the 80s, it was basically glam rock sci-fi version of WHFB (just look at the model designs from the era). Then it pivoted to grittiness in the 90s, got big, and has rested on its laurels since. More than anything, 40k has just gotten stale. It was super novel when it came out, and it remains different enough from most of the tropey garbage coming out of Hollywood these days, but honestly sci fi needs something fresh.

Nothing is returning to first principles anymore, and everything is just a reference to something that's come before it-- generally packaged in an ever more banal exterior.

Meant to reply to

This guy is correct.

They even gave him an Apocalypse Now style death.

Margaret Thatcher? What?

Its a reference to Joseph -Conrad-, writer of the story "Heart of Darkness," and -Kurtz-, the antagonist of the story- a British trader who goes rogue & ends up as a sort of demigod among a group of indigenous African people

40k is like black metal. It's a joke that got out of hand and people started taking seriously.

Orkz are Abbath.

Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka - Ork warlord.

Margaret Thatcher - hated British Prime Minister from the 80s.

Exceptionally opaque jokes are my jam.

That's a fucking stretch.

If you're retarded sure.

Except the Eldar know that the Humans are weak and easily corrupted. Any alliance just makes it easier for Chaos to destroy them.

What's Thatcher in him apart from "Mag" and "Th"?

>Enjoying MGSV

It's really not.

Imagine you're drunk, from London and have a mouth full of big teeth.

Now try and say Margaret Thatcher.

Say Maguruk Thraka in a cockney accent

Mag Uruk Thraka is pretty dang close, to be quite honest my senpai

Okay... I got Margurt Dachur

Not drunk enough, than.

You boys are right, but I distinctly remember that Ghazghkull was rolled up on a random table. Perhaps after the fact GW noticed the similarity and decided to make him the top Warboss because of it?

Pretty stupid of whoever came up with that though. Thatcher was the best PM Great Shitstain has had since Churchill, and certainly was good for GW's growth as a business.

While I'm not a Britbonger, my understanding is Thatcher is basically the UK's Reagan. Half the political spectrum completely idolizes her, and the other half sees her name as a curse word.

>Orkz are Abbath.
chronically drunk and trying to fuck over friends?

kek

Well... kinda.

Including the Assassin being named M'Shen

Pretty much - there's still a lot of animosity surrounding her at least, when she died a couple of years back "ding dong the witch is dead" reached number 2 in the charts

The Rock is also a gay bar in Nottingham.

>M'Shen

*tips bodyglove*

sounds like one of the GW staff as gay as fuck

Next step: create a chapter called "Dying Memories" based off of Lewis Carrol poems, centered on the planet Oksforth, implying they're all secretly pedophiles.

>need pic of him beheading someone with a chainsword, thx

>40k lore is the sort o thing that sounds cool when it is just 2 sentences in a blurb, but gets infinitely stupid upon any expanded telling.

This is wisdom. Though honestly, you can say the same of many settings. Doesn't Skyrim sound better if you just say that you use the power of magic words to help defeat dragons in a battle that will span time itself? Or doesn't Fallout 3 sound okay when you phrase it as that you're the vengeful son of a revolutionary scientist trying to finish his greatest creation and defeat a tyrannical organization bent on conquering innocents?

>tfw he looks like this because he's thinking "don't get an erection imagining naked five year olds, on't get an erection imagining naked five year olds..."

Yes

If you mean that both franchises are completely tone-deaf and are full of plot details that are taken seriously in-story but sound embarrassingly stupid when you say them out loud, yes, this is true.

They also changed their armour to green because their legion was broken by envy. there's loads of little tidbits in 40K lore that make it obvious it's a self mocking and punny setting.

>You are a young prodigy, taming the almighty spirits of nature to protect mankind from those who would use those same spirits to rule the world.

>You are the immortal guiding spirit of an entire nation, nudging your people's leaders to centuries of prosperity and conquest.

>You are a hardened and handsomely-paid mercenary, fighting an implacable enemy for the ultimate prize - the most valuable mineral ever discovered.

>An ordinary man destined for greatness, you cheat death, cross the vastest desert in the known world, and fight unspeakable monstrosities to take revenge on the smug idiot who thought he could steal your birthright.

Man, you're right, all of these DO sound better!

ANDY FUCKING CHAMBER THE GUY WHO CREATED THAT ORK CHARACTER SAIS THAT THE NAME WAS CREATED VIA A RANDOM NAME GENERATOR.

Stop spouting lies.

Definitely this, it's why people who are qualified in a complex field or industry are so reluctant to give a committed answer to something before they know all the details; committing to a course of action or advice before knowing the exact situation blows up in your face.

Hated or beloved depending on who you ask

You're exactly right

So mad I forgot to post my picture. Picture fucking related.

When will you guys ever learn? You cling to a meme and then it snowballs for years into endless stupidity. STAAAAHP!

I know right? Vague things sound cooler than specific things.

>You are a young hero chosen by destiny to find artifacts and powerful magics to lock away an ancient evil before it threatens the land.

>You are a disillusioned mercenary thrown into the fires of war once again to save an embattled people and change the world forever.

>A young warrior fights his way through the shattered remnants of his world only to be betrayed when old enemies would continue a feud past armageddon.

People get really venomous about this stuff. When Nancy Reagan died, Hillary Clinton said something nice about her. Th entire internet threw a giant hissy fit and demanded she apologize.

She did

You love memes, Carnac, don't you lie.

What else do you expect from a setting that has had so many different writers? One guy writers it as a joke, another goes super serious. The main flaw with 40k fluff is that they allowed basically anyone to throw shit at it without ever bothering to impose even minimal consistency.

So you end up with a setting where the timeline contradicts itself, factions are inconsistently portrayed and where some sections of the fluff are pretty solid while others provoke brain damage upon reading.

The fanbase cherry picks what they like and ignores the rest depending on personal preference.

Which is kinda repulsive when you think about it. Agree with Nancy Reagan or not, I don't think we have to spit on her grave.

>I'm sorry I was sympathetic about the death of another human being

Man, people are dicks.

Carnac is a meme.

You don't -have- to spit on her grave, but boy it feels good, and she would probably take a "trickle down" on yours

Of course its a tryhard version of a lotr quote, 40k elves are a tryhard version of lotr elves, they are, like, literally called 'the eldar', the whole setting is a tryhard version of something, that's like the point

...

One thing that makes me cringe is the use of the term 'grimdark', I don't know who the fuck came up with this term but it makes you sound like a retard. Just call it a fucking dystopia for fucks sake.

You can't compare these because Nancy Regan wasn't the President. Margaret Thatcher pursued ideologically motivated policies which were designed to weaken the solidarity of working class institutions. Also don't be suck a lickspittle, they're out representatives and should be held accountable for everything they do, you don't need to treat them like wounded soldiers when they've made thousands homeless and destroyed communities.

>All they have to be is open and honest

Top kek.
Pic related has a good example of what happens when the Eldar are open and honest with imperials.
For the lazy
>Eldar diplomat tells an Imperial governor the nature of soulstones, and why he can't trade them (the governor was coveting those stones).
>Governor doesn't give a shit, kills the diplomat, and dons the soulstones as a fucking necklace.
>que the Eldar killing every human on the planet, like they should have done from the get go.

Humans of 40k are barbarians and savages. We aren't supposed to sympathize with them. They are the embodiment of all of our worst aspects.

"Grimdark" implies that it's badly written. If you call it a "dystopia", you put it on the same list as 1984 and Brave New World, which the vast majority of "grimdark" works don't even remotely deserve.

Ah "trickle down" every good liberal's favorite phrase and repeat when they can't be bothered to study economics and develop a more nuanced perspective. If you really think supply side economics doesn't work, compare the Reagan years and the Gingrich years to 2001-present day's Keynesian demand side.

Oh brother. The Labour party ran a stagnant, poorly managed and weak economy for decades, which is why Thatcher got in in the first place. She may not have been shilling for the unions, but the entire country was better for her high growth policies.

>40k lore is the sort of thing that sounds cool when it is just 2 sentences in a blurb, but gets infinitely stupid upon any expanded telling.

This is the exact reason why Horus Heresy was so good before it was explained

...

Yes because we can blame the stagflation of the 1970's and the oil bust on the Labour party, you know it wasn't an international crisis or anything. That's almost as funny as when people blame the 2008 crash on Labour.

Except it wasn't "explained". It was completely changed by a bunch of hacks.

>Descartes predicted Veeky Forums

You must be fun to hang out with.

Not only Veeky Forums, but shitposting as well.

But dystopia is just a descriptive term it implies no criticism. Many shitter settings are labelled dystopian. 'Grimdark' just sounds like a child's version of this and until you mentioned that I had no idea it even meant an implied critique.

Also not all 40k literature is badly written.

Wait a sec that's not Descartes

>Doesn't Skyrim sound better if you just say that you use the power of magic words to help defeat dragons in a battle that will span time itself?

Well, in Skyrim you say words that hack reality just as that one guy could hack phones using a whistle,mainly because everything is a dream and that particural sound invokes a response.
Also you are an avatar of two gods,half of which are dead fighting avatar of the same god,because he's insane or something.
Propably because giant robot made of dwarves

It does sound better when you explain it for me

Jesus it even has a Wikipedia article. I think the term grimdark has got a life of it's own now.

>tfw when he formally conceptualized"I was only pretending to be retarded" almost a century before the Enlightenment